Erickson9610 wrote: »

Because the secondary effect affects abilities within the Grave Lord and Living Death skill lines, you will never be able to benefit from it if you Subclass into Bone Tyrant.


This wouldn't be an issue if base Class Necromancers could use the progress of Subclass Bone Tyrant, but because we are still required to level up our base Class skill lines per character, there is (almost) literally zero reason to ever level up the Subclassing version of this ability. This issue could also be avoided if we could have multiple Subclass skill lines from the same Class, but as it stands, we can only use one Subclass skill line per Class.

Thus, the only tangible benefit to leveling this morph up via Subclassing is an additional 10 seconds of Major+Minor Resolve. By contrast, the other morph pulls in ranged enemies and taunts them, with 20 seconds of Major+Minor Resolve, with a reduced cost.

wow you're actually right. i never realised this.

I love bone tyrant as a line but it should definitely have some updates so that it could be a viable line for damage dealers. this is a morph i could definitely see getting some changes to make it work.

I had some ideas to make bone tyrant empower transformation ult builds for damage dealing (would work for vampire and werewolf too as well as bone goliath).

I pointed this out among the plethora of other game breaking issues U46 brought to Necromancer. Too bad ZOS didn't think they were important enough to address before the patch went live like Sorc was, but it's Necromancer so what can you do?

Bitter Harvest and Renewing Undeath are also dead skills for subclassing and Mortal Coil becomes even more inconsistent in PvP environments as Spirit Mender becomes your only way to generate a corpse.

As long as we have the corpse system I'd like more Necromancer passives other than Living Death's Corpse Consumption to interact with it like how the Arcanist has 1 passive in each skill line that interacts with Crux. There should be a corpse interaction passive in each skill line.

I know a lot of players want more class passives to interact with ww (and ZOS should directly address the ww and vamp skill lines), but Living Death and Bone Tyrant have enough issues that should be addressed first. It already sucks that we lost our best damage skill for a skill that works better with other classes instead of our own. Making my class feel like it exists as spare parts for the classes ZOS actually cares about to use. I want Necromancer skills and abilities to be good for Necromancer first and if it also benefits other classes/playstyles that should be the gravy on top not the main dish.

Changes I'd like to see to Necromancer's support lines:

Bone Tyrant

• Bone Armor and its morphs turn the player into a corpse instead of dropping a corpse after being active for 10 seconds. This will solve the issues of tethers being unreliable in the highly mobile PvP environments. If I can cast Restoring tether or Shocking Siphon on myself I don't have to worry about it breaking 2 seconds after it's been cast if LoS (Line of Sight) becomes a factor in the fight. Spoiler alert ZOS almost every fight in PvP someone will be using LoS.
  
• Bone Totem Needs to be turned into the Necromancer's domain. This class has the worst cc and worst mobility, with no reliable way to lock things down it needs an area where it holds the advantage. Bone Totem should be 12 meters and lasts 20 seconds. Enemies in the area are snared by 60% and inflicted with Major Cowardice and Minor LIfesteal while the caster and allies get Minor Protection and increased recoveries. Increases the damage of your pets in the area by 15%. The morphs additions can stay the same Remote Totem able to be placed at a distance, but I'd like to see the Agony Totem morph get the addition to work as a self synergy.
  
• Empowering Grasp to Grasp of the Dead A good AoE hard CC with a 8 meter radius centered on the caster. An instant fear that applies a frost sticky DoT component with guaranteed chilled. If those affected can't be feared they are immobilized instead. (The separating damage and cc from U44 dev notes doesn't hold water when you have skills like Streak, Burning Talons, Crystallized Slab, Artic Wind, Warden Charm, Incap, Crippling Grasp, Abyssal Impact, Rune of Displacement, Piercing Javelin, Focused Charge, Unstable Core, Petrify, and I probably missed some. Point is there are more CC with damage than without so why put more restrictions on the Necromancer CC that isn't even guaranteed to land? Give us a reliable CC we've waited long enough. The combat team has shown they can still make good AoE cc with Warden's Charm time to do the same to the Necromancer. You know the class that actually needed a good cc.
  
  Passives
• Death Gleaning Whenever an enemy you are in combat with within 28 meters of you dies or a summon minion expires restore 666 Magicka and Stamina.
  
• Last Gasp Increase your Max Health by 2412. Whenever you consume a corpse gain Bone Storm for 4 seconds afflicting all enemies withing 6 meters of you with a stack of Hemorrhaging every 2 seconds and Minor Mangle for 4 seconds. This affect can occur every 8 seconds.

Living Death

• Expunge This skill and morphs needs more value. I'd replace the 3% cost reduction with Minor Intellect and Endurance while slotted on either bar. For Expunge and Modify I'd keep the restoring 515 Magicka/Stamina and add Major Expedition for 4 seconds with an additional 4 seconds for each negative effect removed. For Hexproof it still removes up to 4 negative effects and gives Major Evasion for 5 seconds with an additional 5 seconds for each negative effect removed. You never see this cleanse ran compared to its more bang for your buck contemporaries Betty Netch and Extended Ritual. Why is that? In this era of ESO even more now with subclassing people are slotting skills that do multiple things.
  
  Betty Netch a free cast and forget periodic purge with sustain, Major Brut/Sorc, unique 5% damage boost, and a heal when it ends or you recast it is amazing value. It can be spammed cast to get rid of multiple affects and gives you a heal each time you cast it.
  
  Ritual an expensive group purge with a great HoT that last 30 seconds over a large area with a synergy is an amazing tool.
  
  Compared those to Expunge a self purge that costs health and only gives you a slight cost reduction when you are on that bar. That isn't great value, bar space is limited not free real estate, we can't waste time with a one trick pony in this era. Another is the passive vs active benefit. The other two cleanses do things at activation and for a decent duration after you cast them while after you press the button to cast Expunge and its morphs the skill is over.
  
• Render Flesh Time to remove the Minor Defile or boost the healing of this skill and its morphs to make the drawback worthwhile. With the change to Minor Defile it also discourages Necromancers from running shields since the Curative Curse passive doesn't boost shield strength by 12%. Currently you're better off running Healing Soul as you'll always have a negative effect on you and you can get 12% extra healing + Major Vitality
  
  Passives
• Curative Curse While a Living Death ability is active increase your healing done by 12% You've hit the class with Volendrung enough over the years that power the negatives were there to offset no longer exist.
  
• Undead Confederate Increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina recovery by 150 for each Necromancer minion you have active. (Blastbones, Skeletal Mage, and Spirit Mender)
  
  The recovery for this passive wasn't strong enough to warrant a nerf in U46 especially when there are much stronger recovery passives that were not touched. I've put forth this suggestion in the past and believe it's even more impactful now as it will be a bonus for Necromancers who actually want to play Necromancer instead of NB, Sorc, or Warden. If you subclass into Living death you get a 150 boost to your recoveries which you think is a balanced value for other classes using this line, but if you actually play the class the value compounds rewarding true Necromancers.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Deimus wrote: »

As long as we have the corpse system I'd like more Necromancer passives other than Living Death's Corpse Consumption to interact with it like how the Arcanist has 1 passive in each skill line that interacts with Crux. There should be a corpse interaction passive in each skill line.

I agree. Hopefully the corpse consumption passives in the other two skill lines do something other than generate Ultimate, because Werewolf's Devour synergy counts as a corpse consuming ability yet since Werewolf can't use Ultimate at all, that passive is useless for Werewolf.

It is still useful for Templar's Repentance ability (Restoring Light) since that's the only other non-Necromancer corpse consuming ability, and the human form is allowed to generate Ultimate.

For Bone Tyrant I think it should make a debuffing aura that inflicts a status effect. I also really want that Bone Storm animation the npc Necromancer on the Solstice trailer uses for our playable Necromancer. It looks so good and it's already in the game so get some more value out of it.

For the Grave Lord corpse passive it should make damage you deal after consuming a corpse inflict a sticky DoT on targets with a 6 second cooldown. Infuse your attacks with necrotic energy and inflict the last wails of the dead onto your enemies kind of thing.

Both of these could be useful to other classes/playstyles, but would be more effective on base Necromancer and lean into the debuffer image ZOS says they want for the class if that's even still relevant post subclassing.

Deimus wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Deimus wrote: »

As long as we have the corpse system I'd like more Necromancer passives other than Living Death's Corpse Consumption to interact with it like how the Arcanist has 1 passive in each skill line that interacts with Crux. There should be a corpse interaction passive in each skill line.

I agree. Hopefully the corpse consumption passives in the other two skill lines do something other than generate Ultimate, because Werewolf's Devour synergy counts as a corpse consuming ability yet since Werewolf can't use Ultimate at all, that passive is useless for Werewolf.

It is still useful for Templar's Repentance ability (Restoring Light) since that's the only other non-Necromancer corpse consuming ability, and the human form is allowed to generate Ultimate.

For Bone Tyrant I think it should make a debuffing aura that inflicts a status effect. I also really want that Bone Storm animation the npc Necromancer on the Solstice trailer uses for our playable Necromancer. It looks so good and it's already in the game so get some more value out of it.

For the Grave Lord corpse passive it should make damage you deal after consuming a corpse inflict a sticky DoT on targets with a 6 second cooldown. Infuse your attacks with necrotic energy and inflict the last wails of the dead onto your enemies kind of thing.

Both of these could be useful to other classes/playstyles, but would be more effective on base Necromancer and lean into the debuffer image ZOS says they want for the class if that's even still relevant post subclassing.

It would honestly be worth playing a pureclass Necromancer Werewolf for those passives. Plus, a Necromancer Werewolf could use Class Mastery on a Werewolf Grimoire to generate a corpse that they could then Devour to proc all of those passives (as well as the Corpseburster set).