Your Play Experience b/t Update 45 and Update 46 with Subclassing and Scribing In Base Game

Destai · July 23

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

loosej wrote: »

Hi Kevin,

Wouldn't it be useful to add follow-up questions for the people who answer "no" to your first question as well?

I'm pretty sure it's just a matter of hastily overlooking this, and not a matter of ill intent, but right now it appears to me like you're not looking for actual feedback, and are instead looking for positive user experiences to use in your next bit of marketing. Optics matter.

The assumption here was that if the answer to the first question was "no" that folks would tell us why as part of the first question response and then ignore the remaining questions as they would not be relevant. Responses to these questions are not being used by marketing at all. The questions came up while having a meeting with our combat team about subclassing and some of the data they are reviewing. So we are trying to get some feedback for the team. Whether your experience has been positive or negative, we want to hear it.

What data are they reviewing? I think understanding their headspace will help us with our feedback.

TheDarkRuler · July 23

Scribing Abilities feel inferior to normal abilities in many ways sadly.
They either lack numerical value (e.g. damage, shield, ...) or are either too short in duration of their buffs or debuffs (e.g. Major Brutality being on a scribing ability while Arcanist and Templar have skills to grant those passively or more or less passively). The amount of loops you've to jump through place those abilities not as a gap closer to me but as a unneeded extension.

With the introduction of subclassing that became even more apparant as we now have more class abilties to choose from. On my Dragon Knight I used to have Dual Weapons dagger throw with bonus to status effect chance but that was removed for Gravelords' Sacrifice in the recent patch because it gave much more benefits.

L1re · July 23

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?
- no - the opposite. I am mainly playing PVP. PVP content has gotten MUCH more stale, and BGs on XBOX EU are not existing anymore outside of boring 4x4 BGs.
- Every char feels almost the same. There is no reason now to level up a plar or necro, which I would originally have done soon. No incentive for that anymore.
- Burst is at an all time high. You get hit with 3 or 4 beetles at a time. Everyone is using the same skills and viable sets are reduced even more.
- class identity is completely gone. Beforehand I definitely identified my chars with a certain feel and playstyle. Now all are the same. Warden animal companions, assasination + sorc/plar armor line..... BORING. Class skill lines get reduced to very limited purposes and playstyles.
If so, prior to the launch of Update 46, what was your character build?
- I had plenty of different setups for my Sorc, DK, NB, Arc and Warden, ranging from dot builds (serpents disdain, vatashran) or pyrbrand, to accuity builds, to pen builds using oakfather etc., to crit builds using acuity.
What did you change to your character build when Update 46 launched that allowed you to play or complete content that you had trouble with before?
- see above
What game content was it?
- PVP open world cyrodil
- PVP battlegrounds

BTW: i dont understand why this questionnaire is so one sided. It does not really allow for critical feedback!? If you want to pat yourself on the back - ok, that is one way to do it.

MincMincMinc · July 23

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

Scribing Abilities feel inferior to normal abilities in many ways sadly.
They either lack numerical value (e.g. damage, shield, ...) or are either too short in duration of their buffs or debuffs (e.g. Major Brutality being on a scribing ability while Arcanist and Templar have skills to grant those passively or more or less passively). The amount of loops you've to jump through place those abilities not as a gap closer to me but as a unneeded extension.

With the introduction of subclassing that became even more apparant as we now have more class abilties to choose from. On my Dragon Knight I used to have Dual Weapons dagger throw with bonus to status effect chance but that was removed for Gravelords' Sacrifice in the recent patch because it gave much more benefits.

Some scribing abilities.

Things like healing soul, contingency, warden class script, banner, major vitality are all absurdly strong and abused

Something like the 2h skill is just garbage with no real purpose. 2h already has a cast time and already has a cleave skill. It doesnt need a aoe cleave skill that does 1/3 to 1/2 the damage of most spammables while also costing 2x more

Djennku · July 23

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?

No, I have been what you would call religiously playing ESO since launch, and at this point, I am experienced in most of its pve and pvp content excluding housing.

While the new systems have not personally affected my ability to complete content, I have been having a blast exploring new and unique ways to build my characters as well as improving upon already solid builds. The amount of options available now is insane, and I am always discovering something new.

While leveling subclassing for example, I went the route of taking 2 skill lines and leveling out every skill and both morphs until I had maxed out everything. I got to play with many skills I never touched in the 11 years I've been playing. My conclusion is that every single class skill and morph across all classes are extremely fun and enjoyable to use, and now I'm unable to pick a favorite. XD

I will also say that when a new update launches on the PTS, my favorite thing to read in the notes is the new combat changes. I love seeing the changes and getting to figure out if and where I need to change or adapt my builds when it hits live.

I have seen the game grow and evolve from day 1. I remember when it was literally a whole different game, and in my personal opinion, every update that comes out has only made the game better, and continues to do so.

I have a deep love and passion for this game. Yes there have been hiccups here and there, but the devs at ZoS are amazing at what they do, and I can't wait for what is in store. Also, no I'm not just saying that, I've seen it with my own eyes. XD

Dharmon · July 23

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?

No (well sort of but not in the way you mean)
Due to logging in for much less time in ESO (less than an hour daily vs 8 hours before u46) I have been able to work on my Steam backlog effectively.
The lack of playtime is a reaction to most of the core of my fellow raidgroup going away from game over the U46 changes.

We ran some half guild half pug runs, and struggled more than reasonable to complete mechs on several trials due to people not knowing mechs fully and not being on voice.
Cant really say its necessarily only the randoms fault, but lack of comms and knowledge isnt helping.
So basically with friends that stopped playing and picking up randoms, ability to do trials has decreased.

If so, prior to the launch of Update 46, what was your character build?

Content: pve vet trials, with HM(or attempts) when inguild runs.
I used arcanist with the traditional meta coral riptide/velothi/banner etc.
Occasionally a stamblade.

What did you change to your character build when Update 46 launched that allowed you to play or complete content that you had trouble with before?

After u46 I have changed arcankist to the now more prevalent build, assassination/herald/aedric spear.
Changed gear to tideborn/null arca/velothi.
Damage output was increased compared to pre u46 pure arca (unsurprisingly).

Concerns(feedback):
Note that staying pure arcanist with u46 nerfs would have reduced my dps as all skill lines that could provide a power boost was nerfed heavily in PTS.
I recall ZOS stated that the skill lines would not be nerfed after u46.
Spending a month nerfing them on PTS prior to launch was a clever way to avoid that statement being false.
And on that note, when doing group content you dont want to be a burden, you want to contribute.
This means you use efficient skill setups not rp theme lines, so all DD players now gravitate to the same 4-6 skill lines.

Giving us the marketing line that we can play how we like is deceptive when all pure classes are nerfed as if they are subclassing.
A sensible approach would be to split the skill lines in 2:
for sublcassed characters: nerfed sublass skill line to reduce huge powercreep
For pure classes: buffed skill lines compared to pre U46 skill lines.

Right now we are penalized for playing pure classes, so it makes no sense for doing group content in pure class setup as DD.
Everyone want to pull their weight in trials (mostly) and forcing everyone to go beam+assassination and your choice of templar skill line is lack of diversity and leads to boredome.
At least when I played a non arcanist I didnt have to beam.
Righting this wrong might reduce the hit endgame community took from this patch, maybe.
But history tells me there will be a nerf to the most popular skill lines, not a fix on the less popular lines.

What game content was it?
pve trials mostly

ZOS_Kevin · July 23

L1re wrote: »

BTW: i dont understand why this questionnaire is so one sided. It does not really allow for critical feedback!? If you want to pat yourself on the back - ok, that is one way to do it.

This was only meant for quick feedback, not a questionnaire to have a slant. As we stated earlier in the thread, if your experience has not improved, say that and note why. That would fulfill the ask of the first question.

We gathered some questions that came up out of one meeting and thought it was important to ask some players for a quick feedback response, which is why we posted the thread. You are free to put whatever feedback you want. Others in this thread have and no one is stopping anyone from doing so.

Again, we want to reiterate, please note your feedback in relation to the questions, positive or negative.

Vrienda · July 23

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?
Yes, I'm clearing things much faster now and having fun with my main.

If so, prior to the launch of Update 46, what was your character build?
Stamina Dragon Knight, I think it was good back in Summerset. I tried consistently to get into endgame before giving up, the class just wasn't satisfying to play at all, it felt slow and clunky.

What did you change to your character build when Update 46 launched that allowed you to play or complete content that you had trouble with before?
I chose the Herald of the Tome Subclass and removed all my Dragon Knight abilities. Went Shadow for stealth gameplay.

What game content was it?
Soloing dungeons. Open world content. Solo stuff. Group content was never particularly difficult to begin with, just tedious having to put up with other players. I could complete everything before, now it's just actually enjoyable because Arcanist feels good to play. The other classes just don't, it feels like there's 200-300MS of lag behind every input, Arcanist is the same but the channel on the beam makes that feel in-line with the fantasy, like they're powering it up or something.

Regarding Scribing: It's useless, the abilities sucked and felt bad to use from the second it was added why would anyone ever use it. All of the above applies only to subclassing.

If you're wanting to stop everyone going beam, instead of nerfing Arcanist rework the older classes to be actually fun please. I don't just mean buff them I mean literally scrap every ability and start over. Combat is the biggest quit moment for everyone I've tried to get into ESO for a reason.

Athometodd · July 23

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?

Group content can be completed faster now but not necesarrily in a more fun manner. Subclassing introduced massive power creep for a very specific build as the balancing of passives and skills lines of base claseses has been neglected so only a couple of combinations are top tier for dps. At the same time, sets that allowed non-arcs to perform well and non-arc skills keep being nerfed, which has all together forced dps play into a very limited style that has made content less fun ("Just beam, it does a trilliion damage" - AntonioNB)

Interestingly, when scribing was released, there were lots of tweaks and changes to ensure that none of those skills 'over performed' and would replace class skills, to the extent, that outside of support builds and 'banner', very few dps builds would pick a scribed skill. The contrast to keeping power low with scribing while allowing subclassing to overshadow pure class builds and ultimately discourage build diversity in the class lines chosen for dps group content, is quite jarring and contradictory.

If so, prior to the launch of Update 46, what was your character build?

For dps in recent group content that was designed around arc-beam (especially recently released content that coincided with the nerf to azureblight), I ran the required (as designed) crux build/beam arcanist. Prior to that, and when class identifity was encouraged, and classes had different play styles, I had one of each class set up for dps and could adapt (either through set choice or skill selection) for the content or what felt fun in that moment.

What did you change to your character build when Update 46 launched that allowed you to play or complete content that you had trouble with before?

As many skill lines are muddled with a mix of dps and support skills, but a select few are targetted as dps lines, with this scatteredness verus focus showing in the passives, I had to pick the top 2-3 lines so I would bring my best to group content and not be inconsiderate of others time. I would love it if skills and line passives were buffed to allow a true diversity in gameplay and 'play how you want', and also some factor should be introduced to buff those that stay pure classes (or take 1 other line versus 2 other lines). Really solutions need to be along the 'buff this' line and this skill versus the 'nerf this' approach.

What game content was it?

PVE, group content - both dungeons and trials, hardmode and trifecta level.

RedJohn_COF · July 23

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?

No, rather the opposite. At least in terms of pvp it has made things worse. Especially subclassing. Most people / a lot of people were already using scribing, so that didn't effect it much.

Simply put it made those god mode builds even stronger.

diamondo · July 23

On a personal note subclassing has ruined my game. I never like the idea of it in the first place.

I’m a big PVP player that why I loved eso. I have no Intention of ever subclassing, which means that I have lost a lot of effectiveness in PVP match ups players that at one point were even match ups are now slapping me hands down.

You could argue that by choosing not to subclass I’m deliberately nerfing myself but I liked the pure class skill lines I’ve spent years fine tuning my play style now all of that is up in the air and isn’t this game about playing the way you want,

I want to play pure class skill lines and not be disadvantaged because of a radical change that was thrown on us by developer.

There has been a lot of chat about what could be done to balance this out, please do listen cause I want to stay playing but at the moment getting very board not being able to PVP

Sparrachion · July 23

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?
As has been mentioned before, yes but not in a fun/good way. The overall damage increase has made many fights much easier to finish because you can skip more mechanics. Even mildly optimized groups doing HM content can skip 2 bridges on Taleria, 1 portal Bahsei, only do 1 Pathways cycle on Chimera, etc.

If so, prior to the launch of Update 46, what was your character build?
DKTank, CroTank, SorcTank, and StamArc

What did you change to your character build when Update 46 launched that allowed you to play or complete content that you had trouble with before?
Just went with the meta flow - DKTank moved to EH/WE and DS, RL, or SoA depending on RL request; CroTank moved to BT/SoA and GL, DS, or Siphoning based on RL request; SorcTank is effectively retired unless DS and SC are required/suggested (SE HM for example); StamArc is now the typical HoT/Ass build with Ardent, Dawn, or Aedric depending on the ask/content.

What game content was it?
Almost all my time in ESO is focused on Trial HM and Tris

General feedback
The game play since scribing and subclassing have arrived is just more "bland". There's no class identity and no difficult trade-off decisions to make when doing a build. An easy example of both issues mentioned is CroTanking - the lack of a class shield or burst heal made the gameplay much more interesting, you had to play in a very distinct style to mange corpses for drain abilities like Tether or Siphon or use them for ulti gen (Potency) to keep yourself alive - it felt a symphony (complex and orchestrated) vs DKTank which played more like hard rock (in your face and risky) if that makes any sense. SorcTanking also felt very distinct - relying on shields and familiars (pets) for so much.

Scribing started ripping that apart by giving all classes a shield (Ullfid) and a Mag chain (Leashing). Add in subclassing and now it's all just so homogenized and lacks any verve.

I'd love to see the benefits of both scribing and subclassing come with much higher costs - double the Skill point cost isn't enough. Make the Stam/Mag/Health cost of a cast go up by 33% for adding one subclassing line and by 50% for adding 2 subclassing lines. The "lore" behind that being that the cost of learning and applying skills outside your core "school/class" are higher because they require more concentration or focus. Put limits on how many pieces of armour of a specific weight you can use on each skill line (Sorc offence lines require 3 pieces of Light Armour to avoid interfering with your ability to control the forces of Magic; Arcanist offensive lines require 3 pieces of Medium for some coherent/plausible reason :-P, etc.) - make the decisions meaningful and difficult.

Seminolegirl1992 · July 23

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?

Yes. With damage going up tremendously, trials and dungeons became significantly easier in many places as bosses could be burned quicker. For instance, for our vSE trifecta, our fight times significantly improved. Dps were running Herald, Assassination, and Dawn's Wrath (one dps would be in a buff setup). For Yaseyla, she was not even able to summon the last two wamasus because the templar execute ability would kill her so fast. Chimera/Twelvane, we were easily able to kill it after only doing one portal. For Ansuul, execute became much quicker because the majority of dps were execute beaming it. Surviving was not an issue, despite losing access to the other two arcanist bars. As long as we had major evasion and the templar beam providing a heal, surviving actually became easier in my opinion.

If so, prior to the launch of Update 46, what was your character build?

Prior to subclassing, most trials I ran Coral/Azure. There were rarely any cases that other gear outpaced those sets, with the exception of Null Arca in very very specific setups. I would use Azure/Depths on Ansuul. And Coral/Deadly when it was purely a single target fight. Coral/Runecarver was also an extremely powerful set in Rockgrove. Skills (almost always): Quick cloak, ceph flail, pragmatic fatecarver (only exhaustive for older trials like rockgrove or kyne's usually), camo hunter, banner bearer, flawless dawnbreaker. Backbar inspired scholar, ele blockade, caltrops, fulminating rune, banner bearer, languid eye. Most of the time.

What did you change to your character build when Update 46 launched that allowed you to play or complete content that you had trouble with before?

Most builds changed to pure damage for dps. Coral became much less viable with the changes to arc beam. People stopped using Runecarver entirely on arcanists. Most places I would run Ansuul/Deadly, or Null Arca/deadly for single target. Azure was banked completely. I still use depths but only on Ansuul fight. Sometimes I use Null/Tideborn. Bars usually look like this: Cloak, flail, fatecarver, templar beam, banner, soul harvest. Back bar: inspired scholar, ele blockade, solar barrage, relentless focus, banner, languid eye. If using aedric spear skill line, then id replace templar beam with blazing spear, and backbar would have fulminating rune instead of solar barrage.

What game content was it?

Trials. vSE, vOC, vLC were the trials I spent the most time in. Trifecta teams.

knifeinthedark · July 23

You need to make core classes competitive with subclasses. Period. End of discussion. Idk make subclassers accept debuffs in exchange for the damage increase and other flexibility or just buff those who decide to keep core class skills, maybe you get a bonus for having 2 and then another bump for all 3? Something has to be done and nerfing the core classes because of your half baked ideas is NOT the solution.

[snip]

Edit for Bait

JonnAndCo · July 23

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?

Yes, I find everything I do in the game has an increased fun factor. From theorycrafting, to farming, to clearing content, I absolutely love subclassing!

olsborg · July 23

Well I quit more or less, when subclassing came. I loved class identity and I dislike minmaxing. Subclassing just made minmaxing everything. Not fun imo.

React · July 24

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?

As a veteran PVP player, I don't really feel like this applies in the way it was intended by the person who wrote the question. It has been nearly a decade since I "struggled to compete/complete" in PVP. But What this update did do was introduce enough damage power creep that you're now able to kill most players in PVP - this has been extremely enjoyable. For years now since hybridization, it has been simply too easy for people to survive. Too much healing/mitigation, too much sustain, not enough damage. This update allowing you to sacrifice so much of your sustain/healing power for damage by doing things like running 2-3x damage oriented skill lines has somewhat leveled the playing field between healing/damage - not entirely though. There is still a slight edge in survivability for individuals who build that way, and a massive imbalance towards survivability for large groups who are properly comped.

If so, prior to the launch of Update 46, what was your character build?

Just the standard PVP builds that most players run.

What did you change to your character build when Update 46 launched that allowed you to play or complete content that you had trouble with before?

On most of my classes, I am running 2-3 "damage" skill lines that either have good damage oriented passives or good damage skills. Most of the time this results in a loss of sustain and healing, sometimes mitigation as well - but for a significant boost in damage that has been very welcome.

What game content was it?

PVP.

General Feedback

Please, do not wait to start buffing all of the underutilized skills - especially damage oriented ones. Give weak spammables tooltip buffs or additional effects. Remove useless passives like health recovery or tiny cost reductions and replace them with more useful things. Make class related passives less conditional and more applicable (things like necro passives that require consuming corpses or apply to skills in other lines, arcanist passives that require consuming crux).

Avoid nerfing things unless they are truly outliers - like restoring light. The current top damage lines represent a good standard to start trying to raise other lines up to. Restoring light represents a bar for defensive lines that is just slightly too high, and should be lowered marginally to a more suitable power level which other defensive lines could then be brought up to.

If you can do these things successfully, you will create a very diverse PVP environment with plenty of viable options compared to the relatively pigeon holed one we have now, where the meta options are a little too defined. You want to get to this by buffing in most cases, so that things feel good to use rather than nerfing things to feel watered down and weak.

ZhuJiuyin · July 24

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?
Damage/healing/tank all improved by about 20%-30%.

If so, prior to the launch of Update 46, what was your character build?
Before U46, my build was based on the meta version of log, and at most only 1-2 skills were changed according to style and needs.

What did you change to your character build when Update 46 launched that allowed you to play or complete content that you had trouble with before?
Abandon weak lines like Dark Magic and use strong lines like Assassination and Herald of the Tome.

What game content was it?
vSE, vLC trifecta.

Other suggestions:
Don't nerf the current strong skill lines, but buff those weaker lines, such as Dark Magic, Shadow, etc. (which are also unpopular lines in log at present). In my opinion, the disadvantage of these lines is that they lack a clear positioning due to the mixture of damage, healing, and tanking capabilities, and none of them are very strong. But this may also be their advantage. Providing these lines with 2-3 passive abilities of damage types and enhancing the damage skills of these lines (at least to match the damage threshold required by HM Trial) will give those members who need solo portals more options, and perhaps even develop a strategy of 2 tanks + 1 healer 9dps or even 10dps.

Icy · July 24

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All! We are looking to understand how Update 46 and the launch of Subclassing, and more recently making Scribing a part of the base game, may have changed the play experience and character build for you and the content you engage in.

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46? - Slight improvement in ability to do game content
If so, prior to the launch of Update 46, what was your character build? - 1bar HA Oakensoul w/ Deadly and Sergents Warden
What did you change to your character build when Update 46 launched that allowed you to play or complete content that you had trouble with before? - I love scribing! The ability to take useful "type" of skills on other classes and move them over is great! ie aoe interrupt with Soul Burst replicating the skill on a DK. I like scribing for it's ability not so much for increasing DPS but it's other "functional" skills (tho I absolutely used banner before subclassing). Subclassing is also good but unlike the functionally in scribing, I feel like I've focused purely on DPS improvements (with templar and nb passives with the warden class skills)
What game content was it? - DLC vet dungeons, the occasional trial, IA

ESO_Nightingale · July 24

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All! We are looking to understand how Update 46 and the launch of Subclassing, and more recently making Scribing a part of the base game, may have changed the play experience and character build for you and the content you engage in.
Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?

If so, prior to the launch of Update 46, what was your character build?

What did you change to your character build when Update 46 launched that allowed you to play or complete content that you had trouble with before?

What game content was it?

(This is strictly to get feedback on your play experience between Update 45 and Update 46. We are not factoring Update 47 PTS feedback in this since it is not available to everyone at the moment).

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?

not at all. I wasn't struggling before and I'm not struggling now. I'm sure if i did play the absolute best builds it would but I'm weird and play frost dps settups exclusively.

If so, prior to the launch of Update 46, what was your character build?

Frost Warden with double ice staff.

What did you change to your character build when Update 46 launched that allowed you to play or complete content that you had trouble with before?

i've kept frost warden as my build but swapped green balance for assassination. i also started an arcanist that uses assassination and winter's embrace.

What game content was it?

PvE Dungeons and Trials.

Any and all feedback is helpful for us to relay back to the Combat Team. That way, they have anecdotal experience to add to their existing data. Thanks in advance to all constructive feedback!

I really like subclassing, but there needs to be a lot of work done on morph compression and bringing up less popular lines. new damage skills need to be created via reworks and many reworks and additions need to be added to passive skills.

i think that update 47 only existing to nerf the most performing skills was a pretty big mistake. because if you nerf the most powerful skills, that does nothing to empower skill lines that need help. moving forward, there should be a ton of work done on class skill lines every update until we have a fairly balanced representation and distribution of builds. skill lines should be treated more individually going forward and more skill lines should have things like spammables and synergistic skills that work within the line.

xencthlu · July 24

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?
Yes and no. Most of my characters I conceived of as the class they are, so I did not multiclass them. On those characters, obviously the solo experience has not become easier. Actually, it's become harder for a number of them, because of nerfs that came with U46 for pure class characters. I haven't tried to use my dragon knight tank more than once since the change, because she doesn't have the sustain for 4 man content anymore. But, a thing I *do* like, is that when I do trial content, it goes very quickly now with much fewer wipes because of all the players in trials that do chase the meta. I find that much more enjoyable.
On the characters I did multiclass, either the couple of existing characters or the new ones I rolled, I haven't noticed so much of a difference in their ability to complete content. But I didn't multiclass them to meta combinations. I went for thematic combinations.

If so, prior to the launch of Update 46, what was your character build?
As said before, most of my characters, I did not multiclass. I'm not one of the anti-multiclassing polemics! Very much the opposite. But I rolled those characters to be the classes they are, and when I want to play those characters, I want to experience those classes that are part of their identities. I want them to be better at doing what they were made to do, I don't want to do something else completely on them.
Now, my two existing characters I did multiclass without regrets: my magicka sorc and my stam sorc, both DPS characters I solo on frequently. Sorcs haven't been in a great place for a long time, and I thought it was weird no one noticed that. Daedric summoning and dark magic are kind of terrible, and I never felt really worked in service of the theme of being a general spellcaster. The nerfs didn't help.

What did you change to your character build when Update 46 launched that allowed you to play or complete content that you had trouble with before?
I only kept storm calling on my existing sorcs, and really, only for lightning form and its morphs. I picked up Ardent Flame and Herald of the Tome on my magicka sorc, mainly for the sources of passive brutality/savagery/sorcery/prophecy, because I hate having to spend 1/3rd of my time in combat spamming self buffs. That character is very good at killing things now, though less so at staying alive. Which is fine, I don't consider that a bad tradeoff. My stamina sorc, I haven't really committed to a new combination of skill lines on. I can cycle through them because I made sure I had fully leveled every skill line in the game before U46 dropped. I think I will settle on storm calling/winter's embrace/assassination. Maybe storm calling/winter's embrace/ardent flame. It's nice to be able to pick up skill lines on my sorcs that actually come with a proper spammable, something sorcerers don't have.
I rolled a couple new characters for the express purpose of multiclassing, as well, but obviously those new characters weren't doing content before U46, so there's no point of comparison.

What game content was it?
I generally do IA, DLC dungeons, and zone dailies.

16BitForestCat · July 24

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

[*] Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?

No, but I don't necessarily mean that as a negative? Maybe my answer doesn't fall exactly into the paths you're looking for. But while I didn't suddenly find myself burning solo through group dungeons or anything, the use of subclassing made existing content more enjoyable and more accessible for me. So subclassing is a win for this gamer.

ESO is extremely button-mashy in bad ways; I've gotten repetitive motion injuries at least four times I can think of from this game, and ONLY this game, out of the many others I've played in my life since the early 1980s—and I played the absolute heck out of Diablo III, one of the Kings of Clickclickclick, during its first few years. I'm still dealing with the painful side effects I got from grinding those stupid style pages during the 2024 ESO 10th anniversary event and grinding to unlock the skill styles on my RP alt accounts during New Life. And as the type of "hardcore casual" I am, I dislike combat and try to avoid it as much as I can to get to the questing, looting, and exploration. With subclassing, my Dragonknight's got a Nightblade cloak to avoid combat (I love that it's a toggle now; much less button-pressing for me) and an Arcanist beam to end unavoided combat more quickly and with much less strain on my mid-40s body. Thank the Divines. The fact that so many other players are using the same "beam-cloak" subclassing combo in PvE tells me I'm far from the only one with issues doing content, be the issues physical or otherwise.

Scribing I have barely touched because it's a very pale imitation of the wild spells I made in TESIV, but subclassing has been great, even if I wish we could just unlock individual skills rather than a whole skill line when I'm only using one skill from it and usually no passives. I don't have any interest in class purity, so I don't have any commentary on that. If I could have a skill from every class scattered throughout my bars, I'd just see it as a fun time.

Marto · July 24

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?

Absolutely.
On trials, I saw a substantial increase in power, particularly from access to the passives from the Assassination skill line.
On solo content, I saw an increase in power from having buffs and debuffs not previously available for my class. This came at a noticeable cost self-healing, however.

If so, prior to the launch of Update 46, what was your character build?
- Stamina Arcanist DD with Coral Riptide.
- Templar Oakensoul solo build based on direct damage

What did you change to your character build when Update 46 launched that allowed you to play or complete content that you had trouble with before?
- Equipped Assassination and Aedric Spear on my Arcanist DD, boosting my DPS from 100k to over 150k
- Equipped Animal Companions on my Templar, greatly increasing my direct damage and allowing me to ignore resistance thanks to Shalk

What game content was it?
- Endgame normal and vet Trials
- Infinite Archive, 2-4 cycles per run.

blktauna · July 24

*Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?

No.
if anything PVP has got worse.

*If so, prior to the launch of Update 46, what was your character build?
several flavours of NB, Templars and a DK or two. And a Mage for the humour value.

*What did you change to your character build when Update 46 launched that allowed you to play or complete content that you had trouble with before?
I have some experiments with subclassing but I really hate it. I have a filthy pet sorc for laughs but I wouldn't main it. I don't like how everyone is really running the same cheese in PVP and now its even worse with all this min maxing.
I'm only doing scribing for this pursuit and then all that trash is coming out. This is all unneeded and not beneficial. Especially the scribing. Not a good ROI with that at all. The subclassing is removing what scraps of rock paper scissors was left in making a build. There's no longer the need to make choices and tradeoffs.

*What game content was it?
PVP

CAB_Life · July 24

The fun wore off real quick and now I’m just left with mountains of questions as to what exactly the balance team intends to do with so many broken builds, or obvious outliers like Arc beams, which continue to be ignored and are played by almost every player. If the goal was complete homogenization, congrats, mission achieved. The only thing that people “could” distinguish their builds with now is with the hideously underpowered class sets or laughable class passives almost none of which are used outside of Warden (PVP) and Arcanist.

And while we’re not supposed to mention update 47, I’d be remiss by not pointing out that yet another 3 to 6 months will go by with no meaningful changes after this catastrophic shift to the game was implemented. The development team seems to be under the impression that customers have unlimited reserves of patience and understanding, which they do not.

I will be shifting my time to other games, but following the trickle of development information for ESO in the hopes that we see meaningful, large scale, and iimpactful change to this new system.

karthrag_inak · July 24

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All! We are looking to understand how Update 46 and the launch of Subclassing, and more recently making Scribing a part of the base game, may have changed the play experience and character build for you and the content you engage in.
Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?

Yes! Khajiit has finally been able to provide sufficient offensive contributions (beyond his spicy sense of humor) to particpate in advanced trial groups, and achieved Sunspire 'Extinquisher of Flames', along with vCR, vHOF 'Dyvaith Fyr's Coadjutor' and other delightful achievements and adventures over the past few weeks.

If so, prior to the launch of Update 46, what was your character build?

Among khajiit's 20 characters, there are a stam dps, mag dps, and tank of every profession (save arcanist tank), all of which have benefited from subclassing (all also had completed all scribing quests when WW was released, although they had not actually scribed any spells until sublcassing).

The characters primarily involved in the new trial adventures post-subclassing were a stam dps nightblade and a stam dps arcanist.

What did you change to your character build when Update 46 launched that allowed you to play or complete content that you had trouble with before?

Added arc herald of the tome and templar aedric spear to nightblade and added nb assassination and dawn's wrath to arcanist. Also, both received shocking banner. Nothing too fancy.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

What game content was it?

Trials - vSS HM, vCR, vHoF HM, vDSR and vSE.

Khajiit's trial dummy parses doubled with subclassing, which did wonders for confidence, if nothing else

.

Once upon a time (before Summerset) khajiit was a regular participant in vet trials with friends in organized groups, but it seemed like after Summerset came out, many folks became more competitive, and more salty towards folks who were not dedicated parse-jockeys. After much negativity and discomfort directed his way from group members with expectations this one was apparently unable to meet, khajiit kind of gave up on doing veteran trial adventures.

But now, after 12,648 hours of in-game play time (according to Played All plugin - according to steam it's over 22k hours

) khajiit has finally found the right folks, and has gained reasonable offensive capabilities to not be considered a charity carry.

This has been fantastically fun. Not going to lie, khajiit has done it all (outside of elite vet dungeon and vet trial content), and often 10-20x over, in ESO since he started playing. Subclassing has injected new life in the game. Suddenly, there's a mountain of stuff to do and to learn.

So thank you! 10/10 would subclass again.

karthrag_inak · July 24

Another thing - this one participated in Beta, and quit because this game did not feel sufficiently like Elder Scrolls - forced professions gating skill availability? Most unsleek.

Wasn't until right before Morrowind was released that this one returned, but always pining for true ES-style skill freedom, so much so all possible characters were made and leveled so that all skills were available.

Now, with subclassing and scribing, ESO feels more like a classic Elder Scrolls game than ever before.

colossalvoids · July 24

karthrag_inak wrote: »

Now, with subclassing and scribing, ESO feels more like a classic Elder Scrolls game than ever before.

Always interesting how the same exact things leading to the very opposite opinions and experiences. For me the same additions made the game less of an elder scrolls and more into generic fantasy game at that, as skills were designed for a class and archetype and not as magic schools of earlier games basically, so instead of playing an assassin, a knight or a mage I'm playing some sort of a marvel movie abomination without any thematic coherence compared to my usual tes characters that are resembling more of a pure class.

Years back there was a presentation about spell crafting and it was quite honestly my ESO dream at the time: summoning atronachs, casting bolts of fire etc. without being tied to a specific class but mish-mash of already existing highly specific and themed skills isn't cutting it like an actual spellcrafting could in that sense. Like my sorcerer didn't became an actual one with this additions as it would having custom spells or an array of pre crafted ones to chose from but a purple assassin at best, thanks to free skill styling for NB kit.

Renato90085 · July 24

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?
yes,because you buff many nightblade skill ,in U46 i got 8% crit,100 wd and 6% stam in pure nb,so my dps can parse 140-142k in u46
https://www.esologs.com/reports/JzXpkQD72Crw84xT?fight=1&type=summary
If so, prior to the launch of Update 46, what was your character build?
stam khajiit nightblade, have 7-10 set can swap in any combat(aoe/st/mech build)bow/staff/greatsword
i main use nb/sorc doing trial hardmode and trifecta
What did you change to your character build when Update 46 launched that allowed you to play or complete content that you had trouble with before?
use alkosh and try take more pen/crit dmg,because new meta arcanist not need any sup set and they parse can do 180k+ no weakness ,so i start at a disadvantage in anytime,and i in any time still do lowest dps on group(U45 i am top 1~3)
What game content was it?
DSR/LC trifecta dps
RG hm healer

but i like subclass on healer,not need run a class i dont want run
i think it because healer only 1-2 style can choose (spc pp or rojo~mw/ma )

ZOS_Kevin · July 24

Hi All, just wanted to follow up again. Thanks to everyone who provided their thoughts here so far. Having your varied perspectives on subclassing pre and post Update 46 is really help and will help give combat some anecdotes to refer to. Anyone is still free to provide their feedback here to have there perspective added to the mix. Thanks!