ARE YOU SERIOUS!? THE BEAM IS THE PROBLEM, NOT BANNER CRUX GENERATION

randconfig · July 10

THIS COMBINED WITH THE FACT THAT YOU STILL HAVE NOT FIXED THE BUGGED INTERACTION BETWEEN TENTACULAR DREAD AND INSPIRED SCHOLARSHIP (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/674297/bug-arcanist-tentacular-dreads-33-not-applying-when-inspired-scholarship-generates-a-crux/p1?new=1), MEANS YOU'VE NOT ONLY KILLED MY MAIN BLASTBONES NECROMANCER WITH BUGGED PET LIMITS, BUT NOW MY BACKUP MAIN ARCANIST THAT DOESN'T USE THE STUPID BEAM IS BEING MADE USELESS WHEN IT SHOULD BE BUFFED BECAUSE OF THE EXISTING BUG WITH TENTACULAR DREAD NOT CORRECTLY GENERATING A CRUX WHEN PROCCING INSPIRED SCHOLARSHIP,

ALSO THE CRUX GENERATION CLASS SCRIPT WAS THE ONLY WAY WE COULD GET A CRUX GENERATING SPAMMABLE FOR VARIETY, SO NOW WE'RE FORCED TO USE JUST THE RUNEBLADES, AND WE'VE CANT EXPERIMENT WITH OTHER DAMAGE FOCUSED SUBCLASSES BECAUSE OF THE CRUX SYSTEM SINCE WE NO LONGER HAVE PASSIVE REGENERATION OF CRUX FROM THE BANNER

THE PROBLEM IS THE BEAM, MAKE IT SO YOU DONT GENERATE CRUX DURING THE BEAM CHANNEL, REVERSE THIS NERF TO BANNER CRUX GENERATION, FIX NECROMANCER BLASTBONES BEING COUNTED TOWARDS THE PET LIMITS, AND FOR THE LOVE OF TALOS, FIX THE TENTACULAR DREAD'S BUGGED INTERACTION WITH INSPIRIED SCHOLARSHIP. Now excuse me while I go AFK to finish having a mental breakdown induced by these patch notes. 🙃

karthrag_inak · July 10

randconfig wrote: »

THIS COMBINED WITH THE FACT THAT YOU STILL HAVE NOT FIXED THE BUGGED INTERACTION BETWEEN TENTACULAR DREAD AND INSPIRED SCHOLARSHIP (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/674297/bug-arcanist-tentacular-dreads-33-not-applying-when-inspired-scholarship-generates-a-crux/p1?new=1), MEANS YOU'VE NOT ONLY KILLED MY MAIN BLASTBONES NECROMANCER WITH BUGGED PET LIMITS, BUT NOW MY BACKUP MAIN ARCANIST THAT DOESN'T USE THE STUPID BEAM IS BEING MADE USELESS WHEN IT SHOULD BE BUFFED BECAUSE OF THE EXISTING BUG WITH TENTACULAR DREAD NOT CORRECTLY GENERATING A CRUX WHEN PROCCING INSPIRED SCHOLARSHIP,

ALSO THE CRUX GENERATION CLASS SCRIPT WAS THE ONLY WAY WE COULD GET A CRUX GENERATING SPAMMABLE FOR VARIETY, SO NOW WE'RE FORCED TO USE JUST THE RUNEBLADES, AND WE'VE CANT EXPERIMENT WITH OTHER DAMAGE FOCUSED SUBCLASSES BECAUSE OF THE CRUX SYSTEM SINCE WE NO LONGER HAVE PASSIVE REGENERATION OF CRUX FROM THE BANNER

THE PROBLEM IS THE BEAM, MAKE IT SO YOU DONT GENERATE CRUX DURING THE BEAM CHANNEL, REVERSE THIS NERF TO BANNER CRUX GENERATION, FIX NECROMANCER BLASTBONES BEING COUNTED TOWARDS THE PET LIMITS, AND FOR THE LOVE OF TALOS, FIX THE TENTACULAR DREAD'S BUGGED INTERACTION WITH INSPIRIED SCHOLARSHIP. Now excuse me while I go AFK to finish having a mental breakdown induced by these patch notes. 🙃

Cpt Caps-lock Returns!

One thing khajiit noticed though that COULD be improved is the ability to capitalize a link. The impact of your majestic tantrum was sorely diminished, right as it got a head of steam, by the link.

randconfig · July 10

karthrag_inak wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

THIS COMBINED WITH THE FACT THAT YOU STILL HAVE NOT FIXED THE BUGGED INTERACTION BETWEEN TENTACULAR DREAD AND INSPIRED SCHOLARSHIP (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/674297/bug-arcanist-tentacular-dreads-33-not-applying-when-inspired-scholarship-generates-a-crux/p1?new=1), MEANS YOU'VE NOT ONLY KILLED MY MAIN BLASTBONES NECROMANCER WITH BUGGED PET LIMITS, BUT NOW MY BACKUP MAIN ARCANIST THAT DOESN'T USE THE STUPID BEAM IS BEING MADE USELESS WHEN IT SHOULD BE BUFFED BECAUSE OF THE EXISTING BUG WITH TENTACULAR DREAD NOT CORRECTLY GENERATING A CRUX WHEN PROCCING INSPIRED SCHOLARSHIP,

ALSO THE CRUX GENERATION CLASS SCRIPT WAS THE ONLY WAY WE COULD GET A CRUX GENERATING SPAMMABLE FOR VARIETY, SO NOW WE'RE FORCED TO USE JUST THE RUNEBLADES, AND WE'VE CANT EXPERIMENT WITH OTHER DAMAGE FOCUSED SUBCLASSES BECAUSE OF THE CRUX SYSTEM SINCE WE NO LONGER HAVE PASSIVE REGENERATION OF CRUX FROM THE BANNER

THE PROBLEM IS THE BEAM, MAKE IT SO YOU DONT GENERATE CRUX DURING THE BEAM CHANNEL, REVERSE THIS NERF TO BANNER CRUX GENERATION, FIX NECROMANCER BLASTBONES BEING COUNTED TOWARDS THE PET LIMITS, AND FOR THE LOVE OF TALOS, FIX THE TENTACULAR DREAD'S BUGGED INTERACTION WITH INSPIRIED SCHOLARSHIP. Now excuse me while I go AFK to finish having a mental breakdown induced by these patch notes. 🙃

Cpt Caps-lock Returns!

One thing khajiit noticed though that COULD be improved is the ability to capitalize a link. The impact of your majestic tantrum was sorely diminished, right as it got a head of steam, by the link.

No worries! I can make it accessible for you:

This combined with the fact that you still have not fixed the bugged interaction between Tentacular Dread and Inspired Scholarship (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/674297/bug-arcanist-tentacular-dreads-33-not-applying-when-inspired-scholarship-generates-a-crux/p1?new=1), means you've not only killed my main Blastbones Necromancer with bugged pet limits, but now my backup main Arcanist, that doesn't use the stupid beam, is being made useless when it should be buffed because of the existing bug with Tentacular Dread not correctly generating a crux when it procs Inspired Scholarship.

Also, the crux generation class script was the only way we could get a crux generating spammable for variety, so now we're forced to use just the Runeblades, and we cannot experiment with other damage focused subclasses because of the crux system since we no longer have the passive regeneration of crux from the banner.

The problem continues to be the beam, why not make it so you do not generate crux during the beam channel, reverse this nerf to Bannerbearer crux generation, fix Necromancer Blastbones being counted towards the pet limits, and for the love of Talos, fix the Tentacular Dread's bugged interaction with Inspired Scholarship. Now excuse me while I go AFK to finish having a mental breakdown induced by these patch notes. 🙃

GloatingSwine · July 10

The crux generation was also the problem, but this is a silly fix.

randconfig · July 10

GloatingSwine wrote: »

The crux generation was also the problem, but this is a silly fix.

Why is the crux generation the problem? Because of the beam being a spammable, no?

Then the issue is not crux generation, it's the beam.

Tannus15 · July 10

No, the banner crux gen was the problem. I'm sorry, you're just wrong.

This was making it possible for dread builds to run without any other form of crux generation, which is stupidly powerful and it entirely circumvents the crux mechanic.

It's ALSO super strong with beam builds since you only need 1 flail between beams, but both builds were significantly stronger on acanist compared to any other class because of the banner.

It's been an OP class mastery for the banner since day one, and it shouldn't have taken so long for them to nerf it.

All that aside, the current version of arc banner is pointless and needs to be changed. It could probably be something like "for each active crux gain +75 weapon and spell damage" which would buff non beam builds while making the banner about on par with the good class master banners.

Joy_Division · July 10

No, the ability to generate crux while also consuming it was the problem. The whole point in having a consuming mechanic is that something needs to be done beforehand in preparation. The Banner script circumvented this and allowed almost continuous beaming which was never intended (and should never have been a thing).

I say this as someone who really likes playing an Arcanist.

LootAllTheStuff · July 10

Joy_Division wrote: »

No, the ability to generate crux while also consuming it was the problem. The whole point in having a consuming mechanic is that something needs to be done beforehand in preparation. The Banner script circumvented this and allowed almost continuous beaming which was never intended (and should never have been a thing).

I say this as someone who really likes playing an Arcanist.

Just got my Arcanist up to about level 23 with no scribing, and the ease with which you can spam Beam is frankly ridiculous. I try not to use it that often, but.. Either it should not generate crux while consuming it, or it should do so at a much slower rate or have an explicit cool-down after use. As it is, functionally it's the base game's Konami code.

madmufffin · July 10

Tannus15 wrote: »

No, the banner crux gen was the problem. I'm sorry, you're just wrong.

This was making it possible for dread builds to run without any other form of crux generation, which is stupidly powerful and it entirely circumvents the crux mechanic.

It's ALSO super strong with beam builds since you only need 1 flail between beams, but both builds were significantly stronger on acanist compared to any other class because of the banner.

It's been an OP class mastery for the banner since day one, and it shouldn't have taken so long for them to nerf it.

All that aside, the current version of arc banner is pointless and needs to be changed. It could probably be something like "for each active crux gain +75 weapon and spell damage" which would buff non beam builds while making the banner about on par with the good class master banners.

Dread builds come with the tradeoff of only having 33% uptime on the 12% crit damage, so while strong single target, you give up a fair bit to use it. Beam on the other hand often gives you two crux while beaming.

CameraBeardThePirate · July 10

madmufffin wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

No, the banner crux gen was the problem. I'm sorry, you're just wrong.

This was making it possible for dread builds to run without any other form of crux generation, which is stupidly powerful and it entirely circumvents the crux mechanic.

It's ALSO super strong with beam builds since you only need 1 flail between beams, but both builds were significantly stronger on acanist compared to any other class because of the banner.

It's been an OP class mastery for the banner since day one, and it shouldn't have taken so long for them to nerf it.

All that aside, the current version of arc banner is pointless and needs to be changed. It could probably be something like "for each active crux gain +75 weapon and spell damage" which would buff non beam builds while making the banner about on par with the good class master banners.

Dread builds come with the tradeoff of only having 33% uptime on the 12% crit damage, so while strong single target, you give up a fair bit to use it. Beam on the other hand often gives you two crux while beaming.

Lol what? Where are you getting that? You get the crit damage every time you generate or consume crux for seven seconds. It doesn't only activate on consumption. You're gonna have full uptime no matter what.

madmufffin · July 10

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

No, the banner crux gen was the problem. I'm sorry, you're just wrong.

This was making it possible for dread builds to run without any other form of crux generation, which is stupidly powerful and it entirely circumvents the crux mechanic.

It's ALSO super strong with beam builds since you only need 1 flail between beams, but both builds were significantly stronger on acanist compared to any other class because of the banner.

It's been an OP class mastery for the banner since day one, and it shouldn't have taken so long for them to nerf it.

All that aside, the current version of arc banner is pointless and needs to be changed. It could probably be something like "for each active crux gain +75 weapon and spell damage" which would buff non beam builds while making the banner about on par with the good class master banners.

Dread builds come with the tradeoff of only having 33% uptime on the 12% crit damage, so while strong single target, you give up a fair bit to use it. Beam on the other hand often gives you two crux while beaming.

Lol what? Where are you getting that? You get the crit damage every time you generate or consume crux for seven seconds. It doesn't only activate on consumption.

Oh I'm just stupid and can't read. Carry on

Soarora · July 10

Beam was a problem, banner made it worse, this does help the overall problem but doesn’t resolve the root.

randconfig · July 11

Soarora wrote: »

Beam was a problem, banner made it worse, this does help the overall problem but doesn’t resolve the root.

How? Only Arcanist is forced to play around the Crux system, limiting all their ability choices. By removing the Bannerbearer crux generation, you're effectively forcing them to use only class skills, and since Tentacular Dread was already underperforming vs the beam, this just kills it.

Why would you do this right after introducing the subclassing system?

randconfig · July 11

Tannus15 wrote: »

No, the banner crux gen was the problem. I'm sorry, you're just wrong.

This was making it possible for dread builds to run without any other form of crux generation, which is stupidly powerful and it entirely circumvents the crux mechanic.

It's ALSO super strong with beam builds since you only need 1 flail between beams, but both builds were significantly stronger on acanist compared to any other class because of the banner.

It's been an OP class mastery for the banner since day one, and it shouldn't have taken so long for them to nerf it.

All that aside, the current version of arc banner is pointless and needs to be changed. It could probably be something like "for each active crux gain +75 weapon and spell damage" which would buff non beam builds while making the banner about on par with the good class master banners.

"This was making it possible for dread builds to run without any other form of crux generation, which is stupidly powerful and it entirely circumvents the crux mechanic."

Yeah, that's literally the only use for the ability. It's already weak from being bugged with it's interaction with Inspired Scholarship and having less DPS?

How is that "strong", and you literally lose 3 ability slots, a script slot for bannerbearer, and you lose resources while it's toggled on. It takes FIFTEEN SECONDS for only banner to generate 3 crux, in PvP that's an insane amount of time. It's not overpowered, you're just wrong.

EDIT: I just want to be clear, you think a 6% more damage debuff on Tentacular Dread at FULL CRUX is justification to remove the entire Arcanist class's ability to use non-class abilities or subclassing by gutting bannerbearer class mastery script?

randconfig · July 11

Not gonna argue, my time and energy are worth more than this. If ya'll wanna remove the only reason to play the Arcanist class, just to pick it for parts( the beam via subclassing), then just delete the class from the game. I'm not investing anymore time just to have necromancer become unplayable and now this nonsense after switching to Arcanist.

Morvan · July 11

Arcanist was already super strong even before banner was introduced, they will be fine without it, the fix was indeed redundant though, they should have still made their class mastery worth running at some degree, but it should definitely not generate crux.

Arcanist's rotation is already simple enough without it, adding passive crux generation to banner — which by itself already makes your rotation easier by eliminating 2 skill slots, is just stupid imo.

Herald of the Tome will still be the top dog with those changes, if I was a main arcanist I'd be more concerned of them nerfing beam, it would mean I'd need to set up a real rotation with runeblades and tentacular dread.

randconfig · July 11

Morvan wrote: »

Arcanist was already super strong even before banner was introduced, they will be fine without it, the fix was indeed redundant though, they should have still made their class mastery worth running at some degree, but it should definitely not generate crux.

Arcanist's rotation is already simple enough without it, adding passive crux generation to banner — which by itself already makes your rotation easier by eliminating 2 skill slots, is just stupid imo.

Herald of the Tome will still be the top dog with those changes, if I was a main arcanist I'd be more concerned of them nerfing beam, it would mean I'd need to set up a real rotation with runeblades and tentacular dread.

You didn't read anything, as I clearly said I don't like the beam being the only viable way to play the class, and you clearly don't play Arcanist because you think they're "super strong", when they're arguably the worst class in the game right now as every other class can do it better, so why comment?

EDIT: actually I was wrong, Necromancer is in a worse state given the large number of abilities that literally don't work from the bugged pet limit rules implemented U46. Arcanist is at least better than that.

Morvan · July 11

randconfig wrote: »

You didn't read anything, as I clearly said I don't like the beam being the only viable way to play the class, and you clearly don't play Arcanist because you think they're "super strong", when they're arguably the worst class in the game right now as every other class can do it better, so why comment?

EDIT: actually I was wrong, Necromancer is in a worse state given the large number of abilities that literally don't work from the bugged pet limit rules implemented U46. Arcanist is at least better than that.

Arcanist is among the classes I most play nowadays, and you're wrong, beam is not the only viable way to play the class, actually, running runeblades + tentacular dread, with no beam or banner is unarguably stronger for boss setups.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abT0kVItrak

And what do you mean by "every other class can do it better"? Have you actually been playing the game nowadays? Arcanist is so efficient they're the most played class by a huge margin, most trial cores are just full of them.

And one of the main reasons for that is exactly how only they can have crux generation on banner, making any other class running Herald just inferior by default.

Islyn · July 11

Joy_Division wrote: »

No, the ability to generate crux while also consuming it was the problem. The whole point in having a consuming mechanic is that something needs to be done beforehand in preparation. The Banner script circumvented this and allowed almost continuous beaming which was never intended (and should never have been a thing).

I say this as someone who really likes playing an Arcanist.

But it's SO FUNNY how in allll these years - ZOS just continues to ZOS. I wish I knew their reasoning behind all the wacky choices they make.

randconfig · July 11

Joy_Division wrote: »

No, the ability to generate crux while also consuming it was the problem. The whole point in having a consuming mechanic is that something needs to be done beforehand in preparation. The Banner script circumvented this and allowed almost continuous beaming which was never intended (and should never have been a thing).

I say this as someone who really likes playing an Arcanist.

"The whole point in having a consuming mechanic is that something needs to be done beforehand in preparation."
Right, toggling on bannerbearer, casting inspired scholarship, cruxweaver armor, and/or apocryphal gate are all doing something beforehand.

"The Banner script circumvented this and allowed almost continuous beaming which was never intended (and should never have been a thing)."
You do not play Arcanist because inspired scholarship, apocryphal gate, and cruxweaver armor all generate crux during the beam channel, and with the extended duration beam channel, you pretty much always have 3 crux beam without bannerbearer and spend most of combat just pressing the beam button. The solution is to prevent crux generation during the beam channel, not gut the class mastery script.

randconfig · July 11

Morvan wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

You didn't read anything, as I clearly said I don't like the beam being the only viable way to play the class, and you clearly don't play Arcanist because you think they're "super strong", when they're arguably the worst class in the game right now as every other class can do it better, so why comment?

EDIT: actually I was wrong, Necromancer is in a worse state given the large number of abilities that literally don't work from the bugged pet limit rules implemented U46. Arcanist is at least better than that.

Arcanist is among the classes I most play nowadays, and you're wrong, beam is not the only viable way to play the class, actually, running runeblades + tentacular dread, with no beam or banner is unarguably stronger for boss setups.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abT0kVItrak

And what do you mean by "every other class can do it better"? Have you actually been playing the game nowadays? Arcanist is so efficient they're the most played class by a huge margin, most trial cores are just full of them.

And one of the main reasons for that is exactly how only they can have crux generation on banner, making any other class running Herald just inferior by default.

Again your problem is the beam.

Instead of targeting just the beam, you're nuking the entire class by gutting the class mastery script.

Prevent crux generation during the beam channel, it's really that simple.

tomofhyrule · July 11

I believe there's a bit of a misconception here.

Arcanist Class Mastery was changed for Banner Bearer only. Other Scribed skills still work as they always have, e.g. you generate a Crux on cast even if you already have some.

I just tested it on PTS with my Arcanist and the Torchbearer skill. Nothing else active, no light attacks, just hitting Torchbearer. And every cast, I got a Crux from it. Three Torchbearers and I had full Crux.

So yes, you can still use any Scribed skill as a spammable to generate Crux for Tentacular dread. The only thing this change is preventing is to be able to passively generate Crux from Banner.

preevious · July 12

Well, I do get that nerfs are always disheartening when it happens to something we use, but let's be real..
It had to be nerfed, and I can only hope it'll be enough to reign in the beamers.

You can't have a single build that is

Easy to master
Extremely good in single target (not the bests, but very, very close)
Supreme in AOE (to the point that it often does twice the DPS of the next best build)
Easy to sustain

Nerfing banner is a good start, but it"s indeed the whole beam that have to be reworked.
Situation is beyond ridiculous, right now.
Stop defending the undefensible.

Cominfordatoothbrush · July 12

randconfig wrote: »

Morvan wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

You didn't read anything, as I clearly said I don't like the beam being the only viable way to play the class, and you clearly don't play Arcanist because you think they're "super strong", when they're arguably the worst class in the game right now as every other class can do it better, so why comment?

EDIT: actually I was wrong, Necromancer is in a worse state given the large number of abilities that literally don't work from the bugged pet limit rules implemented U46. Arcanist is at least better than that.

Arcanist is among the classes I most play nowadays, and you're wrong, beam is not the only viable way to play the class, actually, running runeblades + tentacular dread, with no beam or banner is unarguably stronger for boss setups.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abT0kVItrak

And what do you mean by "every other class can do it better"? Have you actually been playing the game nowadays? Arcanist is so efficient they're the most played class by a huge margin, most trial cores are just full of them.

And one of the main reasons for that is exactly how only they can have crux generation on banner, making any other class running Herald just inferior by default.

Again your problem is the beam.

Instead of targeting just the beam, you're nuking the entire class by gutting the class mastery script.

Prevent crux generation during the beam channel, it's really that simple.

The build in that video isn't even using banner, i personally havent been running it with runeblades/dread and it's performed well compared to beam gamers in content.