Reroll Visions/Verses in Infinite Archive!

XSTRONG · November 2023

Would you like to be able to Reroll Visions and Verses in Endless Archive?

CameraBeardThePirate · November 2023

Maybe if...

Yes, although I don't think you should be able to re-roll at will. Part of the point of a rogue-lite is the randomness aspect.

I think some sort of account bonus (similar to the 3rd option account bonus) that you purchase with Archival Fortunes could work. Maybe have something that allows you to reroll once per run/Arc.

It could also be a consumable that you find in the side-path portals, allowing a single reroll after you find it.

Jack-0 · November 2023

Yes

In Hades, which I assume was the main inspiration for EA, you can unlock the ability to re-roll a buff or boon, but you (at least initially) cannot do it more than once per run. I would like this a lot for both verses and visions, so you can’t constantly pick and choose the best ones, but if you get 3 duds (I’m especially looking at you, pet buff on non pet classes) it would be nice to be able to reroll.

NoxiousBlight · November 2023

Yes

YES. This is what EA is missing.

Make it an permanent unlock that you can buy with fortunes. 10k for one reroll, 20k for the second, and 30k for the third. Max of three rerolls per run.

Would go a long way to alleviate frustration on horrible vision RNG.

Necrotech_Master · November 2023

Yes

some kind of unlockable buff that grants a reroll X times per run, so you have limited number of them

other options i would like to see would be "banish" (prevent a certain vision or verse from appearing) and can also be used X number of times

if i could permanently banish even 2 visions per run, it would be the +gold and +xp ones always, like always lol

PrinceShroob · November 2023

I don't know if there needs to be a reroll--with the upgrades to pick from three Verses or Visions, I've never been presented with any that were all completely useless. Verses can be incredibly powerful and you can already double up with the Mystery Verses, so I feel like rerolling would just allow you to cherry pick the best ones over and over.

The only ones I find to really be a problem are Archival Worldliness, which I think should only appear for Werewolves and Vampires (it technically also affects Soul Trap and Soul Assault, but Soul Trap already does minimal damage and Soul Assault requires that the character completed the main quest), and the one that buffs pet damage, which should only appear for Sorcerer, Necromancer, Nightblade, and Warden, since those are the only classes that can summon pets (while other classes can summon pets through item sets, you'd have to have those sets on hand or in the bank).

Necrotech_Master · November 2023

Yes

PrinceShroob wrote: »

I don't know if there needs to be a reroll--with the upgrades to pick from three Verses or Visions, I've never been presented with any that were all completely useless. Verses can be incredibly powerful and you can already double up with the Mystery Verses, so I feel like rerolling would just allow you to cherry pick the best ones over and over.

The only ones I find to really be a problem are Archival Worldliness, which I think should only appear for Werewolves and Vampires (it technically also affects Soul Trap and Soul Assault, but Soul Trap already does minimal damage and Soul Assault requires that the character completed the main quest), and the one that buffs pet damage, which should only appear for Sorcerer, Necromancer, Nightblade, and Warden, since those are the only classes that can summon pets (while other classes can summon pets through item sets, you'd have to have those sets on hand or in the bank).

the pet one affects a lot more than just summoned pets

i think it can also buff procs that summon pets, but i havent fully tested (such as maw of the infernal or morkuldin)

any effect that is counted as a pet (such as the wardens deep fissure and cliff racer) are also buffed from this proc

AzuraFan · November 2023

Yes

Yes, but it would have to be limited in some way. Otherwise they might as well just offer the player a list to choose from.

Alternatively, they could curate the choices a little better, so players aren't being offered ones that are completely useless to them.

If rerolls, I don't like the idea of it requiring gold or some other resource. Not all of us are loaded down with gold. Just make it a constant, like 3 rerolls / run. Maybe there would be a way to earn more inside.

EdjeSwift · November 2023

Maybe if...

My 2 cents here.

Reroll verses? No, we have tokens to get random verses for 200 AF.

Reroll Visions? Yes, but limited, 3 seems to be the number they like with an AF cost associated with it scaling upward with each choice to a max value. Make it so your rerolls hurt your EA wallet, but aren't cost prohibitive, maybe 1k or 2k for the first one, and then scale upwards appropriately.

Bobargus · November 2023

Maybe if...

Only if the reroll can be done infinitely and for free.

CameraBeardThePirate · November 2023

Maybe if...

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

PrinceShroob wrote: »

I don't know if there needs to be a reroll--with the upgrades to pick from three Verses or Visions, I've never been presented with any that were all completely useless. Verses can be incredibly powerful and you can already double up with the Mystery Verses, so I feel like rerolling would just allow you to cherry pick the best ones over and over.

The only ones I find to really be a problem are Archival Worldliness, which I think should only appear for Werewolves and Vampires (it technically also affects Soul Trap and Soul Assault, but Soul Trap already does minimal damage and Soul Assault requires that the character completed the main quest), and the one that buffs pet damage, which should only appear for Sorcerer, Necromancer, Nightblade, and Warden, since those are the only classes that can summon pets (while other classes can summon pets through item sets, you'd have to have those sets on hand or in the bank).

the pet one affects a lot more than just summoned pets

i think it can also buff procs that summon pets, but i havent fully tested (such as maw of the infernal or morkuldin)

any effect that is counted as a pet (such as the wardens deep fissure and cliff racer) are also buffed from this proc

It's likely the same as Unleashed Ritualist.

Blastbones, Warden Bear, Skeletal Mage/Archer, all 3 Sorc pets, Maw of the Infernal, Morkuldin, Shadowrend, Scavenging Maw, Defiler, and Mad Tinkerer should be all of the pets that benefit (might have missed a set but I'm pretty sure I got all of em).

Deep Fissure and Cliff Racer do not count as pets, and have never counted as pets. Same goes for Necro Colossus and Arcanist Watcher.

For skills, you can test if something is a pet in 1 of 2 ways.
1) if it procs sets, it is NOT a pet, as pets cannot proc sets.
2) if it is buffed by Unleashed Ritualist, it is a pet.

Testing if a proc set is a pet requires the use of Unleashed Ritualist, however you can also look to see if the summoned creature has a chevron above their head (e.g., Maw has a chevron and is a pet, Icy Conjurer doesn't have a chevron and is not a pet).

EF321 · November 2023

No

No, no rerolls. More choices - maybe, but maybe not.
Xp and gold buffs... it's like losing one option. Maybe give these Pacrooti treatment, and they sometimes appear as extra bonus choice, but not taking one of combat-related slots. So you just have more options in this case.

Best solution is to buff weak visions to levels of those everyone if after now. For once, visions don't affect anything outside of this game mode, so they are not going to break balance in other game modes. Building around strong visions was fun, I see potential in other visions, numbers just aren't there at the moment. If all visions are strong, you can just carry multiple loadouts and adapt as you go, no choice will be too terrible.

Firstmep · November 2023

No

I would prefer if they rebalanced visions so that all of them are powerful.

3% increased direct damage vs 500% status effect damage is just not okay.

And if you want to push deep into the archives you actually need that 500% increase, multiple times even, as the amount of hp mobs have spirals out of control very fast.

ssewallb14_ESO · November 2023

I'd rather they rethink the visions, than have a re-roll for more Focused Efforts stacks feature. Like buff some other hyper-specific thing other than status effects and let us build around that.

Like "Applying a minor debuff causes the target to take 300% increased dot damage per stack." or something like that.

Necrotech_Master · November 2023

Yes

Firstmep wrote: »

I would prefer if they rebalanced visions so that all of them are powerful.

3% increased direct damage vs 500% status effect damage is just not okay.

And if you want to push deep into the archives you actually need that 500% increase, multiple times even, as the amount of hp mobs have spirals out of control very fast.

i think a rebalance/buff needs to happen for many of those as well

i agree that a 3% increase to direct dmg is just awful, most of the visions buffs are so small that they dont provide much value, so even with 4x stack its only around 12% buff

i think most of those should be a minimum of 20%

the reduction ones like ult cost probably should be 6% instead of 3%, but if that one was too potent it would literally make your ultimate free (right now you would have to get it 33 times to get 99% ult cost reduction, which is unlikely to ever happen (you would have to basically be able to pick that as your vision option for every vision choice from the start of the run through at the middle of arc 6 in order to get 33 stacks of it)

PrinceShroob · November 2023

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the reduction ones like ult cost probably should be 6% instead of 3%, but if that one was too potent it would literally make your ultimate free (right now you would have to get it 33 times to get 99% ult cost reduction, which is unlikely to ever happen (you would have to basically be able to pick that as your vision option for every vision choice from the start of the run through at the middle of arc 6 in order to get 33 stacks of it)

I believe you're capped at five stacks of the same Vision.

Erickson9610 · November 2023

Yes

It's a staple of the genre to have some mechanic to re-roll the upgrade choices. Maybe there ought to be a rare Vision that gives you the ability to re-roll your Vision choices up to 3 times. It could be a rare Vision that can only be used once per run, like the Vision which grants you an extra Thread.

XSTRONG · November 2023

Yes

Sometimes when I start a solo run in EA I only get useless Visions for like 3 Arcs, then when the content gets harder Arc 4 and 5 I dont have any of the good Visions.

It almost feels like its better to start over from Arc 1 again when you only get useless Visions early on.

Therefore i think Reroll would be great at least for Visions.

Necrotech_Master · November 2023

Yes

PrinceShroob wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the reduction ones like ult cost probably should be 6% instead of 3%, but if that one was too potent it would literally make your ultimate free (right now you would have to get it 33 times to get 99% ult cost reduction, which is unlikely to ever happen (you would have to basically be able to pick that as your vision option for every vision choice from the start of the run through at the middle of arc 6 in order to get 33 stacks of it)

I believe you're capped at five stacks of the same Vision.

if its hard capped at 5 stacks max, then yeah a lot of those visions certainly need a bigger buff

boi_anachronism_ · November 2023

Yes

XSTRONG wrote: »

Sometimes when I start a solo run in EA I only get useless Visions for like 3 Arcs, then when the content gets harder Arc 4 and 5 I dont have any of the good Visions.

It almost feels like its better to start over from Arc 1 again when you only get useless Visions early on.

Therefore i think Reroll would be great at least for Visions.

If i dont get anything good by the end of the first arc i start over.

Ishtarknows · November 2023

Yes

I'd like this as an option, maybe one per arc or something? Too often I get dud options, like pet damage, extra XP, extra gold when on non pet classes and, while extra gold or XP would be nice it's of no help in the EA.

XSTRONG · December 2023

Yes

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

Sometimes when I start a solo run in EA I only get useless Visions for like 3 Arcs, then when the content gets harder Arc 4 and 5 I dont have any of the good Visions.

It almost feels like its better to start over from Arc 1 again when you only get useless Visions early on.

Therefore i think Reroll would be great at least for Visions.

If i dont get anything good by the end of the first arc i start over.

I useally do 2-3 Arcs then if I only get useless visions I go do something else.

DarthCuddlefluff · December 2023

What does the 31% gold gain even do? The only gold gain in endless is from guilded slight, and it doesn't affect that. Even if it did, it would be a crappy verse.

XSTRONG · December 2023

Yes

Yeah the Gold and XP vision are useless

Caligamy_ESO · December 2023

Yes

Not just a reroll, give me a banish option to so I can delete something from ever showing up for the rest of the run. Most rogue-lites these days have these options and I play a loooooot of them.

notyuu · December 2023

Yes

Yeah, even if it's just the visions and just once per cycle it would massivly cut down on the number of dead pulls you get
ya know the ones, where you get +mag crit +max mag +pet damage....while running a a stamcainist build

TX12001rwb17_ESO · December 2023

Maybe 1 reroll per Arc would be balanced?

It can come in the form of a Respec Verse that costs 500 archive fortunes.

katorga · December 2023

Yes

Yes only because the visions/verses are unbalanced.

Or you should be able to pick a vision at the very start, that way you can abandon the run without wasting time on two waves of trash when you get that "feeling" that all the visions will be garbage based on the first one.

Verses? Meh. They don't really matter because they are short duration, but some of them are really, really good.

haelgaan · December 2023

No

yes, of course you want to, but no you should not be allowed to. it's a basic mechanic, no different from any other die roll. just restart the instance if you think you've gotten choices that bad. i mean, arc 1 takes all of 15-20 minutes, rerunning it to get a "good" vision to go into arc 2 with is not that hard...

XSTRONG · July 4

Yes

Anyone have an idea what the re rolls will cost?

Lord_Graas · July 4

Not reroll. Just skip all and go further

The Elder Scrolls Online

Reroll Visions/Verses in Infinite Archive!

Reroll Visions/Verses in Infinite Archive! 95 votes