Me and My friends love for this Game dropped a lot today. New Crown Crates

Dock01 · June 23

twistedodean14 wrote: »

moo_2021 wrote: »

twistedodean14 wrote: »

Now, if I buy 25 crates I usually get garbage and no more than lets say 150 -170 gems. Now considering my Bad RNG (I've gotten 1 or 2 Apex drops. in around nine years, I just get single page drops), If I buy 25 crates which is Equivalent to 150 gems on average for me... And it cost me $65 US for 25 crates... And the mount I need to buy to unlock the other mounts cost 2500 Gems, I would need to buy around 425 Crates to get the amount of Gems need to get that mount. Which means I would have to spend around $1100 to buy this mount... Seriously? I'm just apathetic at this point.

1. Your calculation is not exactly right. The more of the same crate you buy, the better this ratio becomes. Check my experiment at https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/653023/crates-to-gems-ratio In the end it should be about 150-300 crates. And by the end you'd also have most non-apex items unlocked, as a bonus.
2. If you can (I know you can't ), wait until a crown discount to buy crowns. Then wait until the next crate discount and buy enough crates to accumulate gems. Then wait for the next time your favorite crate shows up.
3. They sometimes make variants of mounts later at low cost. I got my shiny red bear at 400 and shiny blue wolf at 700.

The mental gymnastics people perform to defend ZoS practice of monetization is both troubling and disturbing... I have almost 9 years of opening crates. The amount of gems I listed is what I would get on average opening 25. Also, There is literally no evidence that the crown crates drops are curated, a matter of fact there is more to show the opposite. RNG is also Account based. Your lil experiment only works for you and you only.

Also, instead of advocating for ZoS to change the crappy monetization practice (which you would benefit from btw). You're sitting here giving out purchase advice? What's wrong with you people? Your advice to fix the problem is to add to it, by purchasing more crates only to get the same result? Seriously?

I agree. It’s honestly entertaining how people can come up with the most ridiculous thesis just to excuse an ugly practice.

ADarklore · June 23

People forget, your gem RATES actually go up the more crates you invest in. Because as you progress, you acquire the various items and then you get gems for the duplicates. I spent $300 and on my second to very last crate I received the senche mount... and have a lot of gems now left-over that I didn't need to use to buy it. However, I noticed that by the end of my gambling (ahem) I found I was getting a lot more gems than I did when I started throwing the dice... so you do actually benefit by sticking with it if there is a mount you truly want.

For me, a player who ONLY rides senche, these were a 'must have'. I'm single, I have few bills, and I have a good job... so "I" can afford to be frivolous in my gaming. Plus, it helps keep ESO going... people forget that ESO cannot continue if people aren't spending money in the game. Simply 'logging in' or 'ESO+' doesn't keep the game financially supported... it's these crates and store items that do. There is a reason why most long-term MMOs have resorted to putting tons of items in their online stores- DCUO, SWTOR, ESO... because they've learned that it's those items that keep the game funded. As population drops, the more incentive there is to add more to the store... not give more away for free.

twistedodean14 · June 23

sarahthes wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

moo_2021 wrote: »

twistedodean14 wrote: »

Now, if I buy 25 crates I usually get garbage and no more than lets say 150 -170 gems. Now considering my Bad RNG (I've gotten 1 or 2 Apex drops. in around nine years, I just get single page drops), If I buy 25 crates which is Equivalent to 150 gems on average for me... And it cost me $65 US for 25 crates... And the mount I need to buy to unlock the other mounts cost 2500 Gems, I would need to buy around 425 Crates to get the amount of Gems need to get that mount. Which means I would have to spend around $1100 to buy this mount... Seriously? I'm just apathetic at this point.

1. Your calculation is not exactly right. The more of the same crate you buy, the better this ratio becomes. Check my experiment at https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/653023/crates-to-gems-ratio In the end it should be about 150-300 crates. And by the end you'd also have most non-apex items unlocked, as a bonus.
2. If you can (I know you can't ), wait until a crown discount to buy crowns. Then wait until the next crate discount and buy enough crates to accumulate gems. Then wait for the next time your favorite crate shows up.
3. They sometimes make variants of mounts later at low cost. I got my shiny red bear at 400 and shiny blue wolf at 700.

That's not how gambling works. The odds are the same for every drop every time you open a crate.

Here, see if you or anyone else can answer this basic statistics question correctly:

You've just flipped a coin 9 times and it's come up heads 9 times. What is the likelihood the 10th flip will also come up heads? (this is a fair coin that's weighted evenly and has heads on one side and tails on the other)

The odds of that flip coming up heads is still 50% because each flip is independent. That being said, the odds of never getting tails in 10 flips is only around .1%, so that would be a highly unlikely occurrence. Also, crown crates have different tiers that are weighted. It is not fair coin. It's also not completely outside of the realm of possibility that these odds have changed over the years for different crate seasons. There's no good way for consumers to know because the odds are not disclosed. The disclosure of odds would make the entire thing significantly more fair in its marketing.

The odds are absolutely disclosed for everything outside radiant apex mounts. There is also a pity system.

https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/#en/answer/49828

That list doesn't have the full odds nor is it broken down by crate seasons. In order to have the full odds we need the pity timers for each season and the odds of radiant apex rewards, which we don't have.

I only have my own personal experience which is admittedly very low because I've only ever bought more than 25 crates for a season twice in 7 years playing.

In both cases, I got a radiant apex at between 75 and 90 crates. At that point I also had approximately 2/3 of the lower tier rewards and 3 or 4 apex tier rewards.

You are Blessed by RNGesus my Friend!

AzuraFan · June 23

I've never received a radiant apex from a crate. I don't buy a lot of crates, but I've bought several hundred over the years and have never received a radiant. I've gotten other stuff I want, but never radiant. Bad RNG, I guess.

But yeah, crown crates are totally RNG. On top of that, items keep getting bumped up to rarer levels, and the probability of getting duplicates is higher than ever (based on my experience).

I've spent my ESO+ crowns on crates over the years, but they're just not worth it anymore, and I certainly won't be chasing a "free" mount that requires me to potentially spend hundreds of dollars for it. I can afford it, but no. That goes way over my personal line for what I'm willing to spend on anything in the crown store.

dcrush · June 23

ADarklore wrote: »

People forget, your gem RATES actually go up the more crates you invest in. Because as you progress, you acquire the various items and then you get gems for the duplicates. I spent $300 and on my second to very last crate I received the senche mount... and have a lot of gems now left-over that I didn't need to use to buy it. However, I noticed that by the end of my gambling (ahem) I found I was getting a lot more gems than I did when I started throwing the dice... so you do actually benefit by sticking with it if there is a mount you truly want.

For me, a player who ONLY rides senche, these were a 'must have'. I'm single, I have few bills, and I have a good job... so "I" can afford to be frivolous in my gaming. Plus, it helps keep ESO going... people forget that ESO cannot continue if people aren't spending money in the game. Simply 'logging in' or 'ESO+' doesn't keep the game financially supported... it's these crates and store items that do. There is a reason why most long-term MMOs have resorted to putting tons of items in their online stores- DCUO, SWTOR, ESO... because they've learned that it's those items that keep the game funded. As population drops, the more incentive there is to add more to the store... not give more away for free.

Yeah your “gem rates” go up because RNG seems to usually give you the same items over and over again instead of different ones from the same category. So you’re getting gems but they’re worth less than the actual items from the same category because the gem trade-in value is lower than the gem buying value.

twistedodean14 · June 23

ADarklore wrote: »

People forget, your gem RATES actually go up the more crates you invest in. Because as you progress, you acquire the various items and then you get gems for the duplicates. I spent $300 and on my second to very last crate I received the senche mount... and have a lot of gems now left-over that I didn't need to use to buy it. However, I noticed that by the end of my gambling (ahem) I found I was getting a lot more gems than I did when I started throwing the dice... so you do actually benefit by sticking with it if there is a mount you truly want.

For me, a player who ONLY rides senche, these were a 'must have'. I'm single, I have few bills, and I have a good job... so "I" can afford to be frivolous in my gaming. Plus, it helps keep ESO going... people forget that ESO cannot continue if people aren't spending money in the game. Simply 'logging in' or 'ESO+' doesn't keep the game financially supported... it's these crates and store items that do. There is a reason why most long-term MMOs have resorted to putting tons of items in their online stores- DCUO, SWTOR, ESO... because they've learned that it's those items that keep the game funded. As population drops, the more incentive there is to add more to the store... not give more away for free.

So let's look at what we have here. ZoS get's paid a monthly subscription, you need to buy crowns to purchase anything in the crown store, you have to gamble to get unattainable items. We buy dlc and expansions as well. Now you're telling me that ESO can't survive without gambling and shitting Monetizing practices? That's nonsense, respectfully.

I have a pretty good feel most players here, can afford to buy crates etc... This isn't an affordability problem. And trust me, if players decide to stop buying crates on mass or just quit the game, you'll see those prices drop and the odds of anything worth getting would increase. My point is as players, why do want to pay more? If the $300 bucks you spent could get you even more crates you'll be happy right? How about earning those items in game?

Like I told another player earlier, you don't need to justify your purchase. That'll open you up to unwarranted criticism. The point of the post is more so about fairness, how they the community and the bad monetary practices. Then again with whales yourself mindlessly spending just because you can. I don't see ZoS seeing us gamers as infinite money glitches to be farmed. I do find it interesting that to prevent Microsoft from engaging in bad employment practices, ZoS decided to join a union to

“It means we are all a step closer to a healthier work-life balance, reasonable hours at reasonable pay, and hopefully, an end to the more harmful practices that have upended lives and robbed us of our peace and our dignity. From now on, none of us are facing these things alone. We are all in this together, and we are truly stronger for it."

Which is great! They Protected themselves from exploitation while here using bad monetary practices to exploit players. This is how I feel. Anyway, honestly I would rather pay $35 a month, to support the game to get rid of the crown crates and all these other monetizing schemes. Make everything earnable in game through activities and events. If a game is good while Devs and management treat their gamers like people, the game will thrive.

fall0athboy · June 23

licenturion wrote: »

I live in Belgium, so crown crates are disabled and invisible over here because we have strict gambling laws and anti-consumer exploitation laws here.

That said, players should just unite and don't buy stuff if you are against practices like this.

If this happens long enough prices will drop eventually.

I have seen this happen in other games as well.

But if people complain and buy regardless, nothing will ever change.

So do y'all just not get the content?

Elsonso · June 23

AzuraFan wrote: »

I've never received a radiant apex from a crate. I don't buy a lot of crates, but I've bought several hundred over the years and have never received a radiant. I've gotten other stuff I want, but never radiant. Bad RNG, I guess.

Depends on what you mean by "several hundred"

As I once calculated, for any Radiant Apex from a Crown Crate, to have an even chance (50-50) that your next Crown Crate will have a Radiant Apex, you will need to open more than 260 Crown Crates. That's for 50-50 odds, not for guaranteed odds. Coin flip odds. There is no such thing as "guaranteed" in this game unless they have a "safety net" for Radiant Apex that kicks in after a number of losses. I don't recall anyone mentioning that they did, so there is always the statistical chance that a very unlucky person will never get a Radiant Apex, no matter how many are opened.

In any case, at standard prices for Crowns, one can expect to spend several hundred US dollars on Crown Crates. For the case presented above, where the player has a 50-50 chance, that is ~89,500 Crowns, or over US$600. Lucky people will spend less. Unlucky people will spend more.

If by "several hundred" the actual number is still less than 250, then you haven't even reached even odds of getting one.

SerafinaWaterstar · June 24

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again.

Let us just buy the items from the crown store without gambling. (Not sure why gambling is considered ok if its done this way - its still gambling.)

I know that a lot of people would then actually spend money in the crown store, but don’t at the moment as they can’t buy what they want, and don’t support gambling.

Ruschell · June 24

barney2525 wrote: »

you gotta be kidding me

I have bought the 25 crates twice. without having bought any previously, both times I got 350 - 400 gems. Both times was to get an apex and both times got enough gems to get it.

I can't imagine 25 crates giving less than 200

IMHO

Are you saying that you got 400 gems with 25 boxes? Since it's a new box where all the items in it are new and that 100% of the dorps you get are from things you don't have in your collection? It's hard to believe this fallacy, I myself opened 25 boxes and got 195 gems, anyone who is used to opening crates knows how new crates work, and I don't believe that someone who opens 25 new crates can earn 400 gems with duplicate items or exchanged for gems :P

Ruschell · June 24

Currently the RNG around the boxes are horrible, I bought 150 of these new boxes, it's sad that you don't get anything that costs 400 gems by opening 150 boxes, many will say ''ha, but you can take the gems you won and buy something worth 400 gems'' yes, that's obvious, but I also don't think it's fair to open 150 boxes and not get absolutely anything that costs 400 gems in the item drop, ZOS has to improve the drop chance so that these boxes are more attractive to players, we already spend on ESO Plus/Crowns monthly fees, nothing fairer than having an honest chance of winning something decent, the only feeling I get when opening 150 boxes is that I was just made a fool of....

Giraffon · June 24

Just do your weekly endeavors and ignore the crates. You'll still manage to get a few items over time. Honestly, none of it is needed. The amazing brown horse from level 10 will get the job done every time.

mdjessup4906 · June 24

I got a cool looking welwa mount from some free login reward crates once. I have no idea if its a radiant or not but I like it.

Crates can be fun, but this this whole buy 2 get one "free" lol no is definitely scummy. Reminds me of something I read about the fashion brand Hermes. Where if you wanted a certain bag/purse from them they make you buy a bunch of *** you dont want before deeming you "worthy" to buy this already insanely expensive thing. No, people who go for that dont usually have to think about paying their bills, but it's the principal. Anyway, seems like some zos marketer got inspired.

Also makes me glad I think 99% of the "high tier" crate stuff is ugly af.

mdjessup4906 · June 24

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again.

Let us just buy the items from the crown store without gambling. (Not sure why gambling is considered ok if its done this way - its still gambling.)

I know that a lot of people would then actually spend money in the crown store, but don’t at the moment as they can’t buy what they want, and don’t support gambling.

This 10k percent. I bought that cute little house in auridon off Steam. Why? Because it was only 5$ us. And I could actually see that, since it has a real dollar amount next to it and not some token bs, but thats a different issue.

Lost count how many times i seen some outfit or whatever, went to look for it in the shop and seen its stuck behind crates and/or "seasonal" so who knows when it'll be back.

LPapirius · June 24

sarahthes wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

moo_2021 wrote: »

twistedodean14 wrote: »

Now, if I buy 25 crates I usually get garbage and no more than lets say 150 -170 gems. Now considering my Bad RNG (I've gotten 1 or 2 Apex drops. in around nine years, I just get single page drops), If I buy 25 crates which is Equivalent to 150 gems on average for me... And it cost me $65 US for 25 crates... And the mount I need to buy to unlock the other mounts cost 2500 Gems, I would need to buy around 425 Crates to get the amount of Gems need to get that mount. Which means I would have to spend around $1100 to buy this mount... Seriously? I'm just apathetic at this point.

1. Your calculation is not exactly right. The more of the same crate you buy, the better this ratio becomes. Check my experiment at https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/653023/crates-to-gems-ratio In the end it should be about 150-300 crates. And by the end you'd also have most non-apex items unlocked, as a bonus.
2. If you can (I know you can't ), wait until a crown discount to buy crowns. Then wait until the next crate discount and buy enough crates to accumulate gems. Then wait for the next time your favorite crate shows up.
3. They sometimes make variants of mounts later at low cost. I got my shiny red bear at 400 and shiny blue wolf at 700.

That's not how gambling works. The odds are the same for every drop every time you open a crate.

Here, see if you or anyone else can answer this basic statistics question correctly:

You've just flipped a coin 9 times and it's come up heads 9 times. What is the likelihood the 10th flip will also come up heads? (this is a fair coin that's weighted evenly and has heads on one side and tails on the other)

You would be correct if there wasn't a built in pity system that is explicitly mentioned on the crown crates help page on the website (the one that shows odds).

https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/#en/answer/49828

You think there is a "pity system" with crown crate sales? There is no sliding scale based on how many crates purchased that changes the odds of a drop. The odds are the same all the time; the same with every drop no matter how many crates are purchased. ....and who knows how long ago that page that says what the odds are was last updated. Odds for something good like a radiant apex mount may have changed for the worse and they just didn't update that page.

AzuraFan · June 24

Elsonso wrote: »

Depends on what you mean by "several hundred"

As I once calculated, for any Radiant Apex from a Crown Crate, to have an even chance (50-50) that your next Crown Crate will have a Radiant Apex, you will need to open more than 260 Crown Crates. That's for 50-50 odds, not for guaranteed odds. Coin flip odds. There is no such thing as "guaranteed" in this game unless they have a "safety net" for Radiant Apex that kicks in after a number of losses. I don't recall anyone mentioning that they did, so there is always the statistical chance that a very unlucky person will never get a Radiant Apex, no matter how many are opened.

In any case, at standard prices for Crowns, one can expect to spend several hundred US dollars on Crown Crates. For the case presented above, where the player has a 50-50 chance, that is ~89,500 Crowns, or over US$600. Lucky people will spend less. Unlucky people will spend more.

If by "several hundred" the actual number is still less than 250, then you haven't even reached even odds of getting one.

Are you sure about the 50-50 odds of the next crown crate having a radiant. I thought it was a fresh slate each time you open a crate, meaning that the odds are always the same, no matter how many crates you've opened.

In any event, I'm not sure how many crates I've opened over the years, but it might not be 260.

As far as getting a radiant goes, I don't mind. I bought the one and only radiant I have with seals. The only one worth having. The absolutely irreplaceable, unbelievable disco senche. No other radiant has the class, the style, the attitude of that mount. There's nothing comparable to riding that mount around Tamriel while singing Disco Duck.

For the uninitiated (those who have never had the pleasure of hearing Disco Duck), see the YouTube vid below. But beware - your life will never be the same!

https://youtu.be/ynWhozyOoZQ?si=wpjwOpkyKYK2VaUF

(and there's no way I'd spend $600 US to get a mount!)

Jaimeh · June 24

LPapirius wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

moo_2021 wrote: »

twistedodean14 wrote: »

Now, if I buy 25 crates I usually get garbage and no more than lets say 150 -170 gems. Now considering my Bad RNG (I've gotten 1 or 2 Apex drops. in around nine years, I just get single page drops), If I buy 25 crates which is Equivalent to 150 gems on average for me... And it cost me $65 US for 25 crates... And the mount I need to buy to unlock the other mounts cost 2500 Gems, I would need to buy around 425 Crates to get the amount of Gems need to get that mount. Which means I would have to spend around $1100 to buy this mount... Seriously? I'm just apathetic at this point.

1. Your calculation is not exactly right. The more of the same crate you buy, the better this ratio becomes. Check my experiment at https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/653023/crates-to-gems-ratio In the end it should be about 150-300 crates. And by the end you'd also have most non-apex items unlocked, as a bonus.
2. If you can (I know you can't ), wait until a crown discount to buy crowns. Then wait until the next crate discount and buy enough crates to accumulate gems. Then wait for the next time your favorite crate shows up.
3. They sometimes make variants of mounts later at low cost. I got my shiny red bear at 400 and shiny blue wolf at 700.

That's not how gambling works. The odds are the same for every drop every time you open a crate.

Here, see if you or anyone else can answer this basic statistics question correctly:

You've just flipped a coin 9 times and it's come up heads 9 times. What is the likelihood the 10th flip will also come up heads? (this is a fair coin that's weighted evenly and has heads on one side and tails on the other)

You would be correct if there wasn't a built in pity system that is explicitly mentioned on the crown crates help page on the website (the one that shows odds).

https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/#en/answer/49828

You think there is a "pity system" with crown crate sales? There is no sliding scale based on how many crates purchased that changes the odds of a drop. The odds are the same all the time; the same with every drop no matter how many crates are purchased. ....and who knows how long ago that page that says what the odds are was last updated. Odds for something good like a radiant apex mount may have changed for the worse and they just didn't update that page.

Yep, it just says this happens for 'some rewards' without specifying if it's mounts, and also the odds for radiant apex are missing altogether from the list. The only actual data we ever had were from that crown crates site a few years ago, which logged crate openings from players, and analyzed the odds, and I remember the odds being at 0.01-0.03 for radiant mounts.

Elsonso · June 25

AzuraFan wrote: »

Are you sure about the 50-50 odds of the next crown crate having a radiant. I thought it was a fresh slate each time you open a crate, meaning that the odds are always the same, no matter how many crates you've opened.

The Bernoulli distribution can be used to model a series of random binary outcomes. In this case, a "lose" where the player does not get a Radiant Apex reward, and a "win" where they do. For each individual Crate, there is a 99.74% chance of losing, and a 0.24% chance of winning. This is fixed, as far as we know. The series, however, has a probability where it becomes increasingly unlikely for the player to continue losing. That is what is presented above.

The Radiant Apex odds are community sourced using an addon. ZOS does not provide numbers for Radiant Apex rewards.

barney2525 · June 25

Elsonso wrote: »

Obligatory: Just say NO to Crown Crates.

There is nothing in a Crown Crate that a player cannot live without.

depends on how ugly you want your character to look.

I don't buy the crates for the apex or higher items. But a lot of cosmetics in the 16 -40 gem range can only be found in crates. some cool noncom pets as well. some costumes also, but generally they are overpriced. can't see any reason to spend 100 gems on a costume when the outfitter can design good stuff.

Koshka · June 25

barney2525 wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Obligatory: Just say NO to Crown Crates.

There is nothing in a Crown Crate that a player cannot live without.

depends on how ugly you want your character to look.

I don't buy the crates for the apex or higher items. But a lot of cosmetics in the 16 -40 gem range can only be found in crates. some cool noncom pets as well. some costumes also, but generally they are overpriced. can't see any reason to spend 100 gems on a costume when the outfitter can design good stuff.

If you aren't interested in apex/radiant stuff, just doing endeavors is enough to get these for free once in a while. That's how I get my hairstyles and accessories, anyway.

Ulvich · June 25

I think I have bought only bought creates (maybe) four times. It's just not worth the gamble to me.

Elsonso · June 26

barney2525 wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Obligatory: Just say NO to Crown Crates.

There is nothing in a Crown Crate that a player cannot live without.

depends on how ugly you want your character to look.

I don't buy the crates for the apex or higher items. But a lot of cosmetics in the 16 -40 gem range can only be found in crates. some cool noncom pets as well. some costumes also, but generally they are overpriced. can't see any reason to spend 100 gems on a costume when the outfitter can design good stuff.

I have used the Twitch Ouroboros Crate gems to purchase a few of these things. When the price is reasonable. Interestingly, there is a costume in there right now that is worth maybe 100 of those Twitch loot boxes. I think it is over 3 months of dedicated Endeavor farming. Way too expensive. It is a "One Pauldron" costume. I suppose if it had two pauldrons it would cost a lot more.

MorallyBipolar · June 26

It's a really bad look. No other way to see it.