Me and My friends love for this Game dropped a lot today. New Crown Crates

sarahthes · June 20

twistedodean14 wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

twistedodean14 wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

It's fine to want rare cosmetics to be more affordable, but in the end, does it make sense to like the whole game less over it? For someone who enjoys the game to stop enjoying it because one day there's a mount they don't think is worth getting just seems like a perspective issue, or getting too attached to an item you don't want to pay for. It's still the same game even without a particular shiny Crown item.

I don't mean to blame you for valid issues with their pricing and their attempts to squeeze money out of mega-whales, as I said the critique there makes sense. But if there's so much disappointment about not having a rare mount that it overwhelms the joys of the content, the world, and the in-game community, to me that's an issue of being too attached to what we don't have.

Personally, I think they shouldn't be a Radiant and an Apex reward to get those extra mounts, because it takes too many Endeavors, and the RNG/Gem droprate OP mentioned is an issue. They should at least be easier to get together for people who appreciate the Crown Store so much. Although I think some players will really enjoy the extra exclusivity.

I don't think you got the point of my post. It's not about not being able to get my hands on a mount from the crown store and quitting as a result. That's a over simplification. A mount I don't think is worth getting? The Mount Cost around $1100 dollars to get. That's rent and mortgage payment money. How has that not sunk in? 1k for a mount that cannot be earned in game. And others are locked behind getting that mount. The major issues are that they don't care about the players and community. And they have been accused of being greedy, so what they did with that the current crown crates to me reinforces that. Not only that, I am tired the constant cycle of starting over when it comes the people I play with. I'm tired of the really bad rng I have farming or doing other stuff in the game. I'm not a grind gamer who religiously gets up every day to get on eso and do the same grind for hours over and over again. I'm not the type that runs around in craglorn for 3 hours to get one Potent nirncrux. It's a build up of multiple things. This move is the massive rock that broke the camels back when a simple strand of straw was all that was needed.

I got all 3 by using a mix of endeavors and gems. I bought a single 21K crowns pack, which I buy 2-4x a year anyway, this wasn't an "extra" purchase for me. This got me the gems I needed for the polymorphs (both of which I actually really like, some people were using them in raid yesterday). And endeavors for the mount.

Good for you, I don't spend hours everyday grinding endeavors for months. I certainly don't have you and others God level RNG to Get an insane amount of Gems or Great drops. And I am certainly not Going spend hundreds to on crates to get those Gems. I'll pass on trying to over compensate for *** monetary practices with my time and money. Then again, A lot of folks don't see the bigger picture or care to. I get the impression you're one of those. You don't need to justify your purchase to anyone.

I actually do think crates are predatory. I have a set budget for cosmetics/crowns that I don't deviate from and the timing lined up and, more importantly, I happened to like the look of these particular mounts. If I didn't care for the mount aesthetics I wouldn't bother.

I also don't grind endeavors. I never even open the tab that shows how you earn them. If I get them, I get them. If I don't, I don't. But I also don't spend them very often because, again, I have some self control around whether I really want something or not.

twistedodean14 · June 20

sarahthes wrote: »

twistedodean14 wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

twistedodean14 wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

It's fine to want rare cosmetics to be more affordable, but in the end, does it make sense to like the whole game less over it? For someone who enjoys the game to stop enjoying it because one day there's a mount they don't think is worth getting just seems like a perspective issue, or getting too attached to an item you don't want to pay for. It's still the same game even without a particular shiny Crown item.

I don't mean to blame you for valid issues with their pricing and their attempts to squeeze money out of mega-whales, as I said the critique there makes sense. But if there's so much disappointment about not having a rare mount that it overwhelms the joys of the content, the world, and the in-game community, to me that's an issue of being too attached to what we don't have.

Personally, I think they shouldn't be a Radiant and an Apex reward to get those extra mounts, because it takes too many Endeavors, and the RNG/Gem droprate OP mentioned is an issue. They should at least be easier to get together for people who appreciate the Crown Store so much. Although I think some players will really enjoy the extra exclusivity.

I don't think you got the point of my post. It's not about not being able to get my hands on a mount from the crown store and quitting as a result. That's a over simplification. A mount I don't think is worth getting? The Mount Cost around $1100 dollars to get. That's rent and mortgage payment money. How has that not sunk in? 1k for a mount that cannot be earned in game. And others are locked behind getting that mount. The major issues are that they don't care about the players and community. And they have been accused of being greedy, so what they did with that the current crown crates to me reinforces that. Not only that, I am tired the constant cycle of starting over when it comes the people I play with. I'm tired of the really bad rng I have farming or doing other stuff in the game. I'm not a grind gamer who religiously gets up every day to get on eso and do the same grind for hours over and over again. I'm not the type that runs around in craglorn for 3 hours to get one Potent nirncrux. It's a build up of multiple things. This move is the massive rock that broke the camels back when a simple strand of straw was all that was needed.

I got all 3 by using a mix of endeavors and gems. I bought a single 21K crowns pack, which I buy 2-4x a year anyway, this wasn't an "extra" purchase for me. This got me the gems I needed for the polymorphs (both of which I actually really like, some people were using them in raid yesterday). And endeavors for the mount.

Good for you, I don't spend hours everyday grinding endeavors for months. I certainly don't have you and others God level RNG to Get an insane amount of Gems or Great drops. And I am certainly not Going spend hundreds to on crates to get those Gems. I'll pass on trying to over compensate for *** monetary practices with my time and money. Then again, A lot of folks don't see the bigger picture or care to. I get the impression you're one of those. You don't need to justify your purchase to anyone.

I actually do think crates are predatory. I have a set budget for cosmetics/crowns that I don't deviate from and the timing lined up and, more importantly, I happened to like the look of these particular mounts. If I didn't care for the mount aesthetics I wouldn't bother.

I also don't grind endeavors. I never even open the tab that shows how you earn them. If I get them, I get them. If I don't, I don't. But I also don't spend them very often because, again, I have some self control around whether I really want something or not.

So now you're implying that players like myself lack control, because we choose to just play the game. Versus grinding, budgeting gold & real money, planning and maintaining spreadsheets and crown store schedules etc. Again, you don't need to justify your purchase here. The stars align you win or get all crown crate items. How you choose to attain insert crown crate item is irrelevant to the overall point. Which you and some seem to miss.

Cooperharley · June 20

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

I don't do any gambling with the Crown Crates for the reasons you've listed. They're just not worth it.

I 100% agree with you. The problem however for many of us is that we came from games like World of Warcraft where 99% of the mounts, outfits, weapons, etc etc are all offered in game through normal gameplay. The cost is 15 a month or 250,000 gold roughly for a game time token.

Coming to ESO, I expected much of the same. Rewards awarded when playing the game through normal activities, excpet that ESO rarely offers these kinds of rewards. Instead, they are offered through gamble crates in the form of Crown Crates.

The issue is that many of us, as part of our gameplay, like to dress up our main characters and myriad of alts with outfits, weapon skins, mounts, I mean cosmetics as a whole and the primary means in which to obtain these items is through the crown store and then the primary reason to obtain these items is through the Crown Crates.

When I make a new character, the first thing I do is fix their camera settings and the other UI stuff I need to enable or disable, then I port them to one of my homes, get some gold out of the bank and I create an outfit for them. I do this before I even engage the first monster. I know many other players who do the same.

For many of us, as "optional" as the crown crate items are, they are not really optional for how we play the game. ZOS understands this. It's why the system is made the way it is, and its why many people claim it's predatory.

The monetization is why I and many others have taken breaks in the past and why many buddies have left.

When I hear the classic "they are just cosmetics" argument I just sigh in disappointment. All of these assets are taken out of the game in some way from potential rewards for content or achievements or whatever and are being placed in the store to be sold. I too came from WoW and learning that > 90% of the mounts in this game, at least, are store bought, is hugely disappointing.

Most of our achievements in game do nothing. There's no point in having 55k achievement points or 3000+ CP. There's zero reward for long time investment unfortunately. Even little stuff like 100% completing shadowfen and it giving you a guar mount - that'd be so easy to implement. Hitting the big milestones of 1000 CP, 2000CP, 3000CP and 3600CP could give you a radiant apex mount of your choosing or even a unique one of that quality level design-wise for you to get.

Always baffled me

It is a bummer though seeing stuff like this, big time, and in my opinion it's one of 2-3 things REALLY holding the game back from being really great. It's a fantastic game and could be even better!

Tenthirty2 · June 20

"FREE!"
"Requirements not yet met."

This is a frankly disgusting move.

It would be bad enough if you were able to buy the mount and polymorph "Requirements" outright.

But the fact that it's wrapped in RNG on top of it, very disgusting "business practice"

I also notice they've added in more furnishings, Nord this time, as crate drop rewards that are available IN-GAME.
This happened with the Carnival crates and the Wood Elf furnishings.

IMO Crown crates should NOT include anything that can be obtained in game.

ZoS sinking to new lows with all of this

xXCJsniperXx7 · June 20

These are honestly the best crates to me. I saved over 24k endeavors and got two radiant apex mounts for free (capital wise), nothing really beats that. Plus, if you buy crowns in bulk during a sale you save a pretty big chunk. Combo that with a monthly eso plus incremental and you end up with everything in a crate you like while saving the most money. The luck is really in if a crate that you like shows up.

Rishikesa108 · June 21

xXCJsniperXx7 wrote: »

These are honestly the best crates to me. I saved over 24k endeavors and got two radiant apex mounts for free (capital wise), nothing really beats that. Plus, if you buy crowns in bulk during a sale you save a pretty big chunk. Combo that with a monthly eso plus incremental and you end up with everything in a crate you like while saving the most money. The luck is really in if a crate that you like shows up.

In reality you have had the same mount three times, colored slightly differently. Yes because in reality these two wonderful FREE mounts are ONE IDENTICAL mount. The one that costs 2500 gems is colored red and yellow, the "free" ones are one yellow and the other red. What an effort !

Eternalscourge1 · June 21

Cooperharley wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

I don't do any gambling with the Crown Crates for the reasons you've listed. They're just not worth it.

I 100% agree with you. The problem however for many of us is that we came from games like World of Warcraft where 99% of the mounts, outfits, weapons, etc etc are all offered in game through normal gameplay. The cost is 15 a month or 250,000 gold roughly for a game time token.

Coming to ESO, I expected much of the same. Rewards awarded when playing the game through normal activities, excpet that ESO rarely offers these kinds of rewards. Instead, they are offered through gamble crates in the form of Crown Crates.

The issue is that many of us, as part of our gameplay, like to dress up our main characters and myriad of alts with outfits, weapon skins, mounts, I mean cosmetics as a whole and the primary means in which to obtain these items is through the crown store and then the primary reason to obtain these items is through the Crown Crates.

When I make a new character, the first thing I do is fix their camera settings and the other UI stuff I need to enable or disable, then I port them to one of my homes, get some gold out of the bank and I create an outfit for them. I do this before I even engage the first monster. I know many other players who do the same.

For many of us, as "optional" as the crown crate items are, they are not really optional for how we play the game. ZOS understands this. It's why the system is made the way it is, and its why many people claim it's predatory.

The monetization is why I and many others have taken breaks in the past and why many buddies have left.

When I hear the classic "they are just cosmetics" argument I just sigh in disappointment. All of these assets are taken out of the game in some way from potential rewards for content or achievements or whatever and are being placed in the store to be sold. I too came from WoW and learning that > 90% of the mounts in this game, at least, are store bought, is hugely disappointing.

Most of our achievements in game do nothing. There's no point in having 55k achievement points or 3000+ CP. There's zero reward for long time investment unfortunately. Even little stuff like 100% completing shadowfen and it giving you a guar mount - that'd be so easy to implement. Hitting the big milestones of 1000 CP, 2000CP, 3000CP and 3600CP could give you a radiant apex mount of your choosing or even a unique one of that quality level design-wise for you to get.

Always baffled me It is a bummer though seeing stuff like this, big time, and in my opinion it's one of 2-3 things REALLY holding the game back from being really great. It's a fantastic game and could be even better!

I agree. Its taken me 10 years to hit 2000. Im just now bout to hit it.

dcrush · June 21

Cooperharley wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

I don't do any gambling with the Crown Crates for the reasons you've listed. They're just not worth it.

I 100% agree with you. The problem however for many of us is that we came from games like World of Warcraft where 99% of the mounts, outfits, weapons, etc etc are all offered in game through normal gameplay. The cost is 15 a month or 250,000 gold roughly for a game time token.

Coming to ESO, I expected much of the same. Rewards awarded when playing the game through normal activities, excpet that ESO rarely offers these kinds of rewards. Instead, they are offered through gamble crates in the form of Crown Crates.

The issue is that many of us, as part of our gameplay, like to dress up our main characters and myriad of alts with outfits, weapon skins, mounts, I mean cosmetics as a whole and the primary means in which to obtain these items is through the crown store and then the primary reason to obtain these items is through the Crown Crates.

When I make a new character, the first thing I do is fix their camera settings and the other UI stuff I need to enable or disable, then I port them to one of my homes, get some gold out of the bank and I create an outfit for them. I do this before I even engage the first monster. I know many other players who do the same.

For many of us, as "optional" as the crown crate items are, they are not really optional for how we play the game. ZOS understands this. It's why the system is made the way it is, and its why many people claim it's predatory.

The monetization is why I and many others have taken breaks in the past and why many buddies have left.

When I hear the classic "they are just cosmetics" argument I just sigh in disappointment. All of these assets are taken out of the game in some way from potential rewards for content or achievements or whatever and are being placed in the store to be sold. I too came from WoW and learning that > 90% of the mounts in this game, at least, are store bought, is hugely disappointing.
.

This right here is, I think, a big contributing factor to why a lot of people find this an extra ridiculous move by ZOS. If you look up how many mounts exist and how many you can earn in-game I believe the ratio is even closer to 98% being store-bought. With the two previous chapters there were achievements that would give you a mount (outside of the trial mounts for the endgame players). This year there’s none. Although it could of course be part of the content that will be released later this year. But it still pales in comparison to the amount of mounts that are released each year via the clown crates.

licenturion · June 21

twistedodean14 wrote: »

licenturion wrote: »

I live in Belgium, so crown crates are disabled and invisible over here because we have strict gambling laws and anti-consumer exploitation laws here.

That said, players should just unite and don't buy stuff if you are against practices like this.

If this happens long enough prices will drop eventually.

I have seen this happen in other games as well.

But if people complain and buy regardless, nothing will ever change.

That's interesting, I didn't know that. I learned something new today. I think the problem in the US in particular is this strange thing about brand loyalty. Where people here have this thing of spending enormous amounts on companies, even though they know the product is subpar, they are being exploited or they are trying to keep up with the joneses. Also, I know a lot of whales that play ESO that spend hundreds a month in the crown store.

Yeah I noticed that in other things as well. Most of US people I know for example all have iPhones and are Apple warriors. While in the EU my colleagues, family and friends switch between phones brands every time they buy a new one. Same like no one uses iMessage but everything is done through WhatsApp. Same goes for other stuff like cars and clothes. There isn't much corporate and brand loyalism here.

What is funny with the loot crates; I can preview them in the store and I can buy them with gems. But I can't buy crates or can't buy gems. So the only way to get 1 radiant apex items I must collect 250 Twitch stream ouroboros crates and convert all items in it to gems. I can also buy those items with endeavours but they are also limited by dailies and it takes a year to get 1 item.

So I just ignore that part of the game entirely.

Czeri · June 21

I know that it's RNG and therefore we shouldn't trust our own experience, but yeah, the drop chances must have been tinkered with. I opened 25 crates yesterday, and I got 1 gold drop, only 3 additional cards and they were all for purples, and those were the only 4 drops that were not blue or lower. Out of 25 crates. Back when 15 crates were the highest combo, I would get at least 4 additional cards and at least 6 purple/gold drops.

So while the crates were always gambling in that you couldn't choose what you got, you at least got a fair bunch of stuff for your money. Now it's just throwing money away.

Pixiepumpkin · June 21

Cooperharley wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

I don't do any gambling with the Crown Crates for the reasons you've listed. They're just not worth it.

I 100% agree with you. The problem however for many of us is that we came from games like World of Warcraft where 99% of the mounts, outfits, weapons, etc etc are all offered in game through normal gameplay. The cost is 15 a month or 250,000 gold roughly for a game time token.

Coming to ESO, I expected much of the same. Rewards awarded when playing the game through normal activities, excpet that ESO rarely offers these kinds of rewards. Instead, they are offered through gamble crates in the form of Crown Crates.

The issue is that many of us, as part of our gameplay, like to dress up our main characters and myriad of alts with outfits, weapon skins, mounts, I mean cosmetics as a whole and the primary means in which to obtain these items is through the crown store and then the primary reason to obtain these items is through the Crown Crates.

When I make a new character, the first thing I do is fix their camera settings and the other UI stuff I need to enable or disable, then I port them to one of my homes, get some gold out of the bank and I create an outfit for them. I do this before I even engage the first monster. I know many other players who do the same.

For many of us, as "optional" as the crown crate items are, they are not really optional for how we play the game. ZOS understands this. It's why the system is made the way it is, and its why many people claim it's predatory.

The monetization is why I and many others have taken breaks in the past and why many buddies have left.

When I hear the classic "they are just cosmetics" argument I just sigh in disappointment. All of these assets are taken out of the game in some way from potential rewards for content or achievements or whatever and are being placed in the store to be sold. I too came from WoW and learning that > 90% of the mounts in this game, at least, are store bought, is hugely disappointing.

Most of our achievements in game do nothing. There's no point in having 55k achievement points or 3000+ CP. There's zero reward for long time investment unfortunately. Even little stuff like 100% completing shadowfen and it giving you a guar mount - that'd be so easy to implement. Hitting the big milestones of 1000 CP, 2000CP, 3000CP and 3600CP could give you a radiant apex mount of your choosing or even a unique one of that quality level design-wise for you to get.

Always baffled me It is a bummer though seeing stuff like this, big time, and in my opinion it's one of 2-3 things REALLY holding the game back from being really great. It's a fantastic game and could be even better!

100% Cooper!
I often think of how amazing ESO would be if the crown store did not exist, and instead we amassed the items in game through activties. One of the main flaws in this game is that getting a new armor piece in a dungeon is not really all that exciting (which is often the "reward" for completing the content).

Do you recall the quest in Gold Road where you entered this room and there was this sword floating in the center? When I entered that room, I was taken back to AD&D when I was a kid. The imagery of a magical sword floating in a room and the questions on how to obtain it.

I pressed forward with the quest in hopes that the sword was a reward...I was insanely excited and then equally let down when I completed the quest that resulted in nothing as a reward.

So much potential, lost to questionable monetization practices.

moo_2021 · June 21

twistedodean14 wrote: »

Now, if I buy 25 crates I usually get garbage and no more than lets say 150 -170 gems. Now considering my Bad RNG (I've gotten 1 or 2 Apex drops. in around nine years, I just get single page drops), If I buy 25 crates which is Equivalent to 150 gems on average for me... And it cost me $65 US for 25 crates... And the mount I need to buy to unlock the other mounts cost 2500 Gems, I would need to buy around 425 Crates to get the amount of Gems need to get that mount. Which means I would have to spend around $1100 to buy this mount... Seriously? I'm just apathetic at this point.

1. Your calculation is not exactly right. The more of the same crate you buy, the better this ratio becomes. Check my experiment at https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/653023/crates-to-gems-ratio In the end it should be about 150-300 crates. And by the end you'd also have most non-apex items unlocked, as a bonus.
2. If you can (I know you can't

), wait until a crown discount to buy crowns. Then wait until the next crate discount and buy enough crates to accumulate gems. Then wait for the next time your favorite crate shows up.
3. They sometimes make variants of mounts later at low cost. I got my shiny red bear at 400 and shiny blue wolf at 700.

twistedodean14 · June 21

moo_2021 wrote: »

twistedodean14 wrote: »

Now, if I buy 25 crates I usually get garbage and no more than lets say 150 -170 gems. Now considering my Bad RNG (I've gotten 1 or 2 Apex drops. in around nine years, I just get single page drops), If I buy 25 crates which is Equivalent to 150 gems on average for me... And it cost me $65 US for 25 crates... And the mount I need to buy to unlock the other mounts cost 2500 Gems, I would need to buy around 425 Crates to get the amount of Gems need to get that mount. Which means I would have to spend around $1100 to buy this mount... Seriously? I'm just apathetic at this point.

1. Your calculation is not exactly right. The more of the same crate you buy, the better this ratio becomes. Check my experiment at https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/653023/crates-to-gems-ratio In the end it should be about 150-300 crates. And by the end you'd also have most non-apex items unlocked, as a bonus.
2. If you can (I know you can't ), wait until a crown discount to buy crowns. Then wait until the next crate discount and buy enough crates to accumulate gems. Then wait for the next time your favorite crate shows up.
3. They sometimes make variants of mounts later at low cost. I got my shiny red bear at 400 and shiny blue wolf at 700.

The mental gymnastics people perform to defend ZoS practice of monetization is both troubling and disturbing... I have almost 9 years of opening crates. The amount of gems I listed is what I would get on average opening 25. Also, There is literally no evidence that the crown crates drops are curated, a matter of fact there is more to show the opposite. RNG is also Account based. Your lil experiment only works for you and you only.

Also, instead of advocating for ZoS to change the crappy monetization practice (which you would benefit from btw). You're sitting here giving out purchase advice? What's wrong with you people? Your advice to fix the problem is to add to it, by purchasing more crates only to get the same result? Seriously?

Cooperharley · June 21

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

xXCJsniperXx7 wrote: »

These are honestly the best crates to me. I saved over 24k endeavors and got two radiant apex mounts for free (capital wise), nothing really beats that. Plus, if you buy crowns in bulk during a sale you save a pretty big chunk. Combo that with a monthly eso plus incremental and you end up with everything in a crate you like while saving the most money. The luck is really in if a crate that you like shows up.

In reality you have had the same mount three times, colored slightly differently. Yes because in reality these two wonderful FREE mounts are ONE IDENTICAL mount. The one that costs 2500 gems is colored red and yellow, the "free" ones are one yellow and the other red. What an effort !

Coming from a game like WoW, I do really wish we didn’t have so many re skins and instead got original mounts and animations.

It’s one of the reasons I’m pretty pumped for the mammoth mount!

sleepy_worm · June 21

I feel like I should agree with the OP, but the hostile energy is putting me off. I think we can all agree that crates are pretty scummy.

Joy_Division · June 21

Major_Toughness wrote: »

I don't get why this, now? It's been the same for years, and this is the one crate season which actually gives you more than normal IF you get lucky.

I would argue it's better value than every other crown crate.

I buy the 25 Crate bundle most the time and none else, they buy what I want with gems or seals.

There is one difference you are not accounting for: people's tolerance for pay-for-cosmetics.

If I actually enjoy the game (not the same as feeling like logging in is a chore), am motivated to try new builds (not the same as going to well know build guide), and have confidence in the direction the game/devs are going, I'll spend money like a drunken sailor. I mean, I'll go to a bar and drop more money on booze for a single night than anything Ill blow on a season of crown crates. I'll spend money if I am having a good time. I'll tolerate quite a bit.

If the *exact* same pay-for-cosmetics format is in place, but my feelings/confidence about the game/devs have dropped, I'm going to start getting annoyed by pay-for-cosmetics, which will further erode what littler motivation I have for the game. I'll tolerate nothing.

It's not like people love playing the game every day, wake up in the morning, see the same Crown Crates nonsense for the 20th time, and then all of a sudden decide to quit the game.

moo_2021 · June 22

twistedodean14 wrote: »

The mental gymnastics people perform to defend ZoS practice of monetization is both troubling and disturbing... I have almost 9 years of opening crates. The amount of gems I listed is what I would get on average opening 25. Also, There is literally no evidence that the crown crates drops are curated, a matter of fact there is more to show the opposite. RNG is also Account based. Your lil experiment only works for you and you only.

Also, instead of advocating for ZoS to change the crappy monetization practice (which you would benefit from btw). You're sitting here giving out purchase advice? What's wrong with you people? Your advice to fix the problem is to add to it, by purchasing more crates only to get the same result? Seriously?

How many years have people been advocatinng? What have changed?

Islyn · June 22

twistedodean14 wrote: »

Dear Zos,

I've been playing ESO for almost Nine Years now. And honestly I consider my self to be a casual player. Yes, I do trials and DLC dungeons but not religiously. I enjoy Multiple aspects of the game, Like questing, hosting guild events, helping new players and even ToT (but I quit that because of the scoring system, somewhat rigged rng). Most of all I'm into housing (the real endgame) and eso fashion. Now those two aspects of the game are extremely expensive when it comes to gold and actual cash spent. I see the new Crown Crates Package and I finally saw some stuff that I really wanted, only to realize that content is locked behind another piece of content that's extremely expensive and hard to get. Now, if I buy 25 crates I usually get garbage and no more than lets say 150 -170 gems. Now considering my Bad RNG (I've gotten 1 or 2 Apex drops. in around nine years, I just get single page drops), If I buy 25 crates which is Equivalent to 150 gems on average for me... And it cost me $65 US for 25 crates... And the mount I need to buy to unlock the other mounts cost 2500 Gems, I would need to buy around 425 Crates to get the amount of Gems need to get that mount. Which means I would have to spend around $1100 to buy this mount... Seriously? I'm just apathetic at this point.

I take breaks from the game especially If an update comes out that I don't like. And there were times I feel like quitting over bad rng (when farming) or other issues in the Game. However at this point, I don't think a break is enough. Why? You guys are always accused of being greedy and anti consumer, and I typically don't pay much attention to that stuff. But this move, along with the other aspects of crown crates and gems takes the cake. I am not here to bash, But I and many of my friends I currently play the game with are extremely disappointed. I think I'll play the content in the Season pass, End it there. I enjoyed the game very much and I believe players should support a game they love, but ZoS, I am realizing that you don't love the community. I think If the Game has a dedicated community, the devs and management should at least be reasonable and considerate of the players and community. Which is not something you guys do. I'm no whale and ESO is not a job for me. So I will never get those mounts or polymorphs. I can accept that, but we the players aren't just an infinite money glitch. We are people that love the Art you guys put out. And I feel like you don't see us players as people, but more so just a source of money to farm and that's it. It's clear via the monetization practices including this most recent one showed me in a visceral way, the game studio doesn't love and appreciate the players and community. I just wanted to share my thoughts on this situation.

Why would they? We *are quite literally* an infinite money glitch, and when this stops being the case, the server will close. Period. This is and always was a consumer product. That you see it as more than that, is on you.

Sure people working on the project may will love their jobs - but we are just customers - that's it.

I also spend a LOT of money on this game - and LOVE the game, but I don't expect anyone here to treat me as anything more than a customer.

AngryPenguin · June 22

moo_2021 wrote: »

twistedodean14 wrote: »

Now, if I buy 25 crates I usually get garbage and no more than lets say 150 -170 gems. Now considering my Bad RNG (I've gotten 1 or 2 Apex drops. in around nine years, I just get single page drops), If I buy 25 crates which is Equivalent to 150 gems on average for me... And it cost me $65 US for 25 crates... And the mount I need to buy to unlock the other mounts cost 2500 Gems, I would need to buy around 425 Crates to get the amount of Gems need to get that mount. Which means I would have to spend around $1100 to buy this mount... Seriously? I'm just apathetic at this point.

1. Your calculation is not exactly right. The more of the same crate you buy, the better this ratio becomes. Check my experiment at https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/653023/crates-to-gems-ratio In the end it should be about 150-300 crates. And by the end you'd also have most non-apex items unlocked, as a bonus.
2. If you can (I know you can't ), wait until a crown discount to buy crowns. Then wait until the next crate discount and buy enough crates to accumulate gems. Then wait for the next time your favorite crate shows up.
3. They sometimes make variants of mounts later at low cost. I got my shiny red bear at 400 and shiny blue wolf at 700.

That's not how gambling works. The odds are the same for every drop every time you open a crate.

Here, see if you or anyone else can answer this basic statistics question correctly:

You've just flipped a coin 9 times and it's come up heads 9 times. What is the likelihood the 10th flip will also come up heads? (this is a fair coin that's weighted evenly and has heads on one side and tails on the other)

twistedodean14 · June 22

moo_2021 wrote: »

twistedodean14 wrote: »

The mental gymnastics people perform to defend ZoS practice of monetization is both troubling and disturbing... I have almost 9 years of opening crates. The amount of gems I listed is what I would get on average opening 25. Also, There is literally no evidence that the crown crates drops are curated, a matter of fact there is more to show the opposite. RNG is also Account based. Your lil experiment only works for you and you only.

Also, instead of advocating for ZoS to change the crappy monetization practice (which you would benefit from btw). You're sitting here giving out purchase advice? What's wrong with you people? Your advice to fix the problem is to add to it, by purchasing more crates only to get the same result? Seriously?

How many years have people been advocatinng? What have changed?

Do you not pay look at the hundreds of post both here and other platforms? It's been happening for years. Then again most players don't look at forums and non gameplay content for eso.

twistedodean14 · June 22

Islyn wrote: »

twistedodean14 wrote: »

Dear Zos,

I've been playing ESO for almost Nine Years now. And honestly I consider my self to be a casual player. Yes, I do trials and DLC dungeons but not religiously. I enjoy Multiple aspects of the game, Like questing, hosting guild events, helping new players and even ToT (but I quit that because of the scoring system, somewhat rigged rng). Most of all I'm into housing (the real endgame) and eso fashion. Now those two aspects of the game are extremely expensive when it comes to gold and actual cash spent. I see the new Crown Crates Package and I finally saw some stuff that I really wanted, only to realize that content is locked behind another piece of content that's extremely expensive and hard to get. Now, if I buy 25 crates I usually get garbage and no more than lets say 150 -170 gems. Now considering my Bad RNG (I've gotten 1 or 2 Apex drops. in around nine years, I just get single page drops), If I buy 25 crates which is Equivalent to 150 gems on average for me... And it cost me $65 US for 25 crates... And the mount I need to buy to unlock the other mounts cost 2500 Gems, I would need to buy around 425 Crates to get the amount of Gems need to get that mount. Which means I would have to spend around $1100 to buy this mount... Seriously? I'm just apathetic at this point.

I take breaks from the game especially If an update comes out that I don't like. And there were times I feel like quitting over bad rng (when farming) or other issues in the Game. However at this point, I don't think a break is enough. Why? You guys are always accused of being greedy and anti consumer, and I typically don't pay much attention to that stuff. But this move, along with the other aspects of crown crates and gems takes the cake. I am not here to bash, But I and many of my friends I currently play the game with are extremely disappointed. I think I'll play the content in the Season pass, End it there. I enjoyed the game very much and I believe players should support a game they love, but ZoS, I am realizing that you don't love the community. I think If the Game has a dedicated community, the devs and management should at least be reasonable and considerate of the players and community. Which is not something you guys do. I'm no whale and ESO is not a job for me. So I will never get those mounts or polymorphs. I can accept that, but we the players aren't just an infinite money glitch. We are people that love the Art you guys put out. And I feel like you don't see us players as people, but more so just a source of money to farm and that's it. It's clear via the monetization practices including this most recent one showed me in a visceral way, the game studio doesn't love and appreciate the players and community. I just wanted to share my thoughts on this situation.

Why would they? We *are quite literally* an infinite money glitch, and when this stops being the case, the server will close. Period. This is and always was a consumer product. That you see it as more than that, is on you.

Sure people working on the project may will love their jobs - but we are just customers - that's it.

I also spend a LOT of money on this game - and LOVE the game, but I don't expect anyone here to treat me as anything more than a customer.

I personally i think this mindset is dangerous. Yes, corporations goal is to make money. But if customers aren't being seen as people then long term nothing will change in terms of how people are treated. Because this isn't just about video games, insurance companies for example have the same mindset. Can't count on how many people got screwed by them.

Anyway, I largely agree. I think ZoS would probably shut the whole operation down rather than not exploiting the community.

spartaxoxo · June 22

AngryPenguin wrote: »

moo_2021 wrote: »

twistedodean14 wrote: »

Now, if I buy 25 crates I usually get garbage and no more than lets say 150 -170 gems. Now considering my Bad RNG (I've gotten 1 or 2 Apex drops. in around nine years, I just get single page drops), If I buy 25 crates which is Equivalent to 150 gems on average for me... And it cost me $65 US for 25 crates... And the mount I need to buy to unlock the other mounts cost 2500 Gems, I would need to buy around 425 Crates to get the amount of Gems need to get that mount. Which means I would have to spend around $1100 to buy this mount... Seriously? I'm just apathetic at this point.

1. Your calculation is not exactly right. The more of the same crate you buy, the better this ratio becomes. Check my experiment at https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/653023/crates-to-gems-ratio In the end it should be about 150-300 crates. And by the end you'd also have most non-apex items unlocked, as a bonus.
2. If you can (I know you can't ), wait until a crown discount to buy crowns. Then wait until the next crate discount and buy enough crates to accumulate gems. Then wait for the next time your favorite crate shows up.
3. They sometimes make variants of mounts later at low cost. I got my shiny red bear at 400 and shiny blue wolf at 700.

That's not how gambling works. The odds are the same for every drop every time you open a crate.

Here, see if you or anyone else can answer this basic statistics question correctly:

You've just flipped a coin 9 times and it's come up heads 9 times. What is the likelihood the 10th flip will also come up heads? (this is a fair coin that's weighted evenly and has heads on one side and tails on the other)

The odds of that flip coming up heads is still 50% because each flip is independent. That being said, the odds of never getting tails in 10 flips is only around .1%, so that would be a highly unlikely occurrence. Also, crown crates have different tiers that are weighted. It is not fair coin. It's also not completely outside of the realm of possibility that these odds have changed over the years for different crate seasons. There's no good way for consumers to know because the odds are not disclosed. The disclosure of odds would make the entire thing significantly more fair in its marketing.

sarahthes · June 22

AngryPenguin wrote: »

moo_2021 wrote: »

twistedodean14 wrote: »

Now, if I buy 25 crates I usually get garbage and no more than lets say 150 -170 gems. Now considering my Bad RNG (I've gotten 1 or 2 Apex drops. in around nine years, I just get single page drops), If I buy 25 crates which is Equivalent to 150 gems on average for me... And it cost me $65 US for 25 crates... And the mount I need to buy to unlock the other mounts cost 2500 Gems, I would need to buy around 425 Crates to get the amount of Gems need to get that mount. Which means I would have to spend around $1100 to buy this mount... Seriously? I'm just apathetic at this point.

1. Your calculation is not exactly right. The more of the same crate you buy, the better this ratio becomes. Check my experiment at https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/653023/crates-to-gems-ratio In the end it should be about 150-300 crates. And by the end you'd also have most non-apex items unlocked, as a bonus.
2. If you can (I know you can't ), wait until a crown discount to buy crowns. Then wait until the next crate discount and buy enough crates to accumulate gems. Then wait for the next time your favorite crate shows up.
3. They sometimes make variants of mounts later at low cost. I got my shiny red bear at 400 and shiny blue wolf at 700.

That's not how gambling works. The odds are the same for every drop every time you open a crate.

Here, see if you or anyone else can answer this basic statistics question correctly:

You've just flipped a coin 9 times and it's come up heads 9 times. What is the likelihood the 10th flip will also come up heads? (this is a fair coin that's weighted evenly and has heads on one side and tails on the other)

You would be correct if there wasn't a built in pity system that is explicitly mentioned on the crown crates help page on the website (the one that shows odds).

https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/#en/answer/49828

sarahthes · June 22

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

moo_2021 wrote: »

twistedodean14 wrote: »

Now, if I buy 25 crates I usually get garbage and no more than lets say 150 -170 gems. Now considering my Bad RNG (I've gotten 1 or 2 Apex drops. in around nine years, I just get single page drops), If I buy 25 crates which is Equivalent to 150 gems on average for me... And it cost me $65 US for 25 crates... And the mount I need to buy to unlock the other mounts cost 2500 Gems, I would need to buy around 425 Crates to get the amount of Gems need to get that mount. Which means I would have to spend around $1100 to buy this mount... Seriously? I'm just apathetic at this point.

1. Your calculation is not exactly right. The more of the same crate you buy, the better this ratio becomes. Check my experiment at https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/653023/crates-to-gems-ratio In the end it should be about 150-300 crates. And by the end you'd also have most non-apex items unlocked, as a bonus.
2. If you can (I know you can't ), wait until a crown discount to buy crowns. Then wait until the next crate discount and buy enough crates to accumulate gems. Then wait for the next time your favorite crate shows up.
3. They sometimes make variants of mounts later at low cost. I got my shiny red bear at 400 and shiny blue wolf at 700.

That's not how gambling works. The odds are the same for every drop every time you open a crate.

Here, see if you or anyone else can answer this basic statistics question correctly:

You've just flipped a coin 9 times and it's come up heads 9 times. What is the likelihood the 10th flip will also come up heads? (this is a fair coin that's weighted evenly and has heads on one side and tails on the other)

The odds of that flip coming up heads is still 50% because each flip is independent. That being said, the odds of never getting tails in 10 flips is only around .1%, so that would be a highly unlikely occurrence. Also, crown crates have different tiers that are weighted. It is not fair coin. It's also not completely outside of the realm of possibility that these odds have changed over the years for different crate seasons. There's no good way for consumers to know because the odds are not disclosed. The disclosure of odds would make the entire thing significantly more fair in its marketing.

The odds are absolutely disclosed for everything outside radiant apex mounts. There is also a pity system.

https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/#en/answer/49828

Elsonso · June 22

moo_2021 wrote: »

twistedodean14 wrote: »

Also, instead of advocating for ZoS to change the crappy monetization practice (which you would benefit from btw). You're sitting here giving out purchase advice? What's wrong with you people? Your advice to fix the problem is to add to it, by purchasing more crates only to get the same result? Seriously?

How many years have people been advocatinng? What have changed?

Since they announced Crown Crates. The Crown Crates have gotten arguably worse since then.

TempPlayer · June 23

I don't understand why people keep calling lootbox as gamble or random. This is not a game where both the dealer and player doesn't know what come up next and only able to read the likelihood of thing. This is a game where the dealer has 100% control on what the next card will be. And I will be disappointed if they haven't already created profile for each of our purchasing behavior and have an AI running to adjust what item, or duplicated item to give base on the willingness of a player to purchase more.

Elsonso · June 23

TempPlayer wrote: »

I don't understand why people keep calling lootbox as gamble or random. This is not a game where both the dealer and player doesn't know what come up next and only able to read the likelihood of thing. This is a game where the dealer has 100% control on what the next card will be. And I will be disappointed if they haven't already created profile for each of our purchasing behavior and have an AI running to adjust what item, or duplicated item to give base on the willingness of a player to purchase more.

There may be games that do that, but I would not expect profiling here. I could always be wrong, though.

spartaxoxo · June 23

sarahthes wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

moo_2021 wrote: »

twistedodean14 wrote: »

Now, if I buy 25 crates I usually get garbage and no more than lets say 150 -170 gems. Now considering my Bad RNG (I've gotten 1 or 2 Apex drops. in around nine years, I just get single page drops), If I buy 25 crates which is Equivalent to 150 gems on average for me... And it cost me $65 US for 25 crates... And the mount I need to buy to unlock the other mounts cost 2500 Gems, I would need to buy around 425 Crates to get the amount of Gems need to get that mount. Which means I would have to spend around $1100 to buy this mount... Seriously? I'm just apathetic at this point.

1. Your calculation is not exactly right. The more of the same crate you buy, the better this ratio becomes. Check my experiment at https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/653023/crates-to-gems-ratio In the end it should be about 150-300 crates. And by the end you'd also have most non-apex items unlocked, as a bonus.
2. If you can (I know you can't ), wait until a crown discount to buy crowns. Then wait until the next crate discount and buy enough crates to accumulate gems. Then wait for the next time your favorite crate shows up.
3. They sometimes make variants of mounts later at low cost. I got my shiny red bear at 400 and shiny blue wolf at 700.

That's not how gambling works. The odds are the same for every drop every time you open a crate.

Here, see if you or anyone else can answer this basic statistics question correctly:

You've just flipped a coin 9 times and it's come up heads 9 times. What is the likelihood the 10th flip will also come up heads? (this is a fair coin that's weighted evenly and has heads on one side and tails on the other)

The odds of that flip coming up heads is still 50% because each flip is independent. That being said, the odds of never getting tails in 10 flips is only around .1%, so that would be a highly unlikely occurrence. Also, crown crates have different tiers that are weighted. It is not fair coin. It's also not completely outside of the realm of possibility that these odds have changed over the years for different crate seasons. There's no good way for consumers to know because the odds are not disclosed. The disclosure of odds would make the entire thing significantly more fair in its marketing.

The odds are absolutely disclosed for everything outside radiant apex mounts. There is also a pity system.

https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/#en/answer/49828

That list doesn't have the full odds nor is it broken down by crate seasons. In order to have the full odds we need the pity timers for each season and the odds of radiant apex rewards, which we don't have.

sarahthes · June 23

spartaxoxo wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

moo_2021 wrote: »

twistedodean14 wrote: »

Now, if I buy 25 crates I usually get garbage and no more than lets say 150 -170 gems. Now considering my Bad RNG (I've gotten 1 or 2 Apex drops. in around nine years, I just get single page drops), If I buy 25 crates which is Equivalent to 150 gems on average for me... And it cost me $65 US for 25 crates... And the mount I need to buy to unlock the other mounts cost 2500 Gems, I would need to buy around 425 Crates to get the amount of Gems need to get that mount. Which means I would have to spend around $1100 to buy this mount... Seriously? I'm just apathetic at this point.

1. Your calculation is not exactly right. The more of the same crate you buy, the better this ratio becomes. Check my experiment at https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/653023/crates-to-gems-ratio In the end it should be about 150-300 crates. And by the end you'd also have most non-apex items unlocked, as a bonus.
2. If you can (I know you can't ), wait until a crown discount to buy crowns. Then wait until the next crate discount and buy enough crates to accumulate gems. Then wait for the next time your favorite crate shows up.
3. They sometimes make variants of mounts later at low cost. I got my shiny red bear at 400 and shiny blue wolf at 700.

That's not how gambling works. The odds are the same for every drop every time you open a crate.

Here, see if you or anyone else can answer this basic statistics question correctly:

You've just flipped a coin 9 times and it's come up heads 9 times. What is the likelihood the 10th flip will also come up heads? (this is a fair coin that's weighted evenly and has heads on one side and tails on the other)

The odds of that flip coming up heads is still 50% because each flip is independent. That being said, the odds of never getting tails in 10 flips is only around .1%, so that would be a highly unlikely occurrence. Also, crown crates have different tiers that are weighted. It is not fair coin. It's also not completely outside of the realm of possibility that these odds have changed over the years for different crate seasons. There's no good way for consumers to know because the odds are not disclosed. The disclosure of odds would make the entire thing significantly more fair in its marketing.

The odds are absolutely disclosed for everything outside radiant apex mounts. There is also a pity system.

https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/#en/answer/49828

That list doesn't have the full odds nor is it broken down by crate seasons. In order to have the full odds we need the pity timers for each season and the odds of radiant apex rewards, which we don't have.

I only have my own personal experience which is admittedly very low because I've only ever bought more than 25 crates for a season twice in 7 years playing.

In both cases, I got a radiant apex at between 75 and 90 crates. At that point I also had approximately 2/3 of the lower tier rewards and 3 or 4 apex tier rewards.

Waseem · June 23

I bought 300+ crates and got 1 radiant

Those flexing low numbers of crates to get radiants are Zenimax employees?