Oakensoul ring as a character option?

tomofhyrule · June 23

Asikoo wrote: »

But thanks for reinforcing what a lot of us already feel: we’re not really welcome unless we meet someone else’s idea of “worthy.” That’s the issue and it goes far beyond just me.

Please remember that this is not exclusive to Oakensoul though. There are actually a lot deeper problems here.

1) The balance of the game is nonexistent. Before Subclassing, Arcanists ruled supreme. The patch right before Arcanists demaded everyone run a DK. And yes, there was a time right when Oakensoul came out that Oakensoul was the only acceptable playstyle.

ZOS needs to much more carefully balance the game so there isn't one setup that is head-and-shoulders above everything else. And yes, ease-of-use is a factor as well - even in the last patch where Arcanist was king, there were classes that could get higher numbers... with a significantly more fiddly rotation and a much higher skill level.

2) There really isn't a trials on ramp anymore. Sure, you can PuG trials now... but who likes to PuG things when you can't even tell if it'll clear? Normals are no problem, and you can bring whatever you want (and anyone who excludes someone from a normal based on their build needs to have their head examined). But vet HMs? Yeah, you want people you know can do the content.

It's actually really hard to find groups for standard vets anymore. Most of the raid leads who ran the community training runs (like Project Vitality) left after U35 - I know a lot of people like to stick their heads in the sand and claim that U35 was fine and didn't change the population, but that was the catalyst to get a lot of these training groups to fold up. Now pretty well all you have are the sweaty raider discords, who of course are gonna want the sweatiest compositions for farm runs because they can't handle not running a trial over the speedrun time (well, those and the thinks-they're-better-than-they-are raid leads who can't conceive that a setup other than the meta would be acceptable).

ZOS needs to stop turning the endgame community away every time there's a patch. Maybe if endgamers post on the PTS forums "this will be bad for the endgame population!" people may want to take note of that and not brush it off as "omg you're so toxic."

---

We're at the point where pureclass builds are being shunned as well, since pureclasses are so much weaker than Subclasses (let's face it, you can at this point count the number of acceptable Subclass builds on one hand). Hopefully U47 will start to balance things a little better to that most builds can reach the top... but I have zero faith in that.

Asikoo · June 23

I completely agree with you that the problem goes way beyond Oakensoul. The deeper issue is how patch over patch, power spikes swing wildly from one class or build to another, and it keeps shifting the goalposts for what’s “acceptable.” First DKs, then Arcanist, now Arcanist+subclasses. And each time the meta changes, it leaves even more players behind, especially those who can’t constantly adapt due to time, skill, or accessibility reasons.

You're also right that the on-ramp to vet trials and endgame content is basically gone. Oakensoul gave some of those players a way to at least participate. Not dominate, not outperform, just participate. But now even that it’s being chipped away, either by very low performance or community gatekeeping.

And while the top-tier players adapt and move on, the casual but capable players, who used to fill out guild runs, do prog nights, or try hardmodes for fun, are the ones getting pushed out. That’s the part that frustrates me most. You can know the mechanics, perform well enough, and still get told you don’t “fit the group” anymore.

I do want a game where viable, simple builds still have a place at the table and I think that’s a fair thing to advocate for.

twisttop138 · June 23

Asikoo wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

Look it's obvious we're not going to agree, as you seem to only see what you want. No where does anything I said prove your point tho. I'm saying there's groups that won't exclude you. You just need to do the work and find them. Just because you're a player does not mean you have to be accepted into any group. This is true of life as well. No one owes you anything. If you're serious about it though, then make a group. That way you make the rules. I think I'm starting to see though, why you may be having a hard time finding people to play with.

You're right, we probably won’t agree. But just because you say what you wrote doesn’t prove my point doesn’t make it true. Telling someone they’re being excluded because of their attitude while ignoring the broader issue of accessibility does prove the point, it's a shift of blame away from the system and onto the individual.

You say “just find a group” like it’s easy. For many players with limitations, that’s not realistic. And no, no one is owed a spot in any group, but when exclusion becomes systemic based on "Oakensoul" alone, that’s a community problem, not just a personal one.

Telling someone to “just make your own group” also assumes they have the time, energy, or social connections to do so, again, not something everyone can easily manage. That’s why empathy matters.

But thanks for reinforcing what a lot of us already feel: we’re not really welcome unless we meet someone else’s idea of “worthy.” That’s the issue and it goes far beyond just me.

You're right, making your own group is t easy, but it's the number 1 way to make sure things go how you want them to go no matter what. Finding your own group is much easier but not super easy sure. If you won't put in the smallest effort though in finding the group that fits you then what are you doing? It can take some work but it's worth it. I can only play from like 7 to 10 on weekdays not weekends. I had to find groups that raid in that time. It took trial and error. I joined quite a few guilds that I had to then leave because our needs didn't line up. Eventually though, be side I wanted it, I found two amazing guilds and they play in my time frame and I've learned awesome stuff. This is all I'm trying to tell you man. That if you put in the work you will find what you're looking for. You seem to be looking to be the victim. The entitled attitude won't get you anywhere. Besides. If those groups that deny you due to oakensoul build, are they your type of people? Would you have enjoyed playing with them?

Soarora · June 23

Asikoo wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

Well, you can just bring out oakensoul bigger, meaner brother : rakkhat's voidmanle.
Trickier to use, but parsing 120k is not that hard.

120k is plenty enough, and no one is gonna dismiss you for it, unless it's the HA build that's not welcome, and that's nothing more than an ideology, at this point.

Why settle for a 120k parse when you can use an Arcanist and hit 130k+?? And the Arcanist is even easier to play than any build with Rakkhat’s.

Oakensoul was designed for a very specific group of players. Sure, others use it just for fun, but its main purpose is to support players who struggle with weaving, lag, complex rotations and etc... Rakkhat’s is not better than Oakensoul. If you think it is, you really need to try one-bar Arcanist, it's 100% better in every way.

edit:
Like I said, Oakensoul was created for many reasons, mainly to support a very specific group of players. And if you think it’s fair that in a multiplayer game some players can parse 180k+ while others, who already face real-life challenges, struggle to break 100k… that just highlights how flawed many design decisions are within the company.

These players don’t want special treatment, they just want to play the game and be part of high-end content like HM trials and trifectas, just like everyone else. As long as they know the mechanics and what to do, they should be allowed to participate.

But no, they get excluded in real life, and now we’re showing them they’re not even “good enough” to play a damn game!

Oakensoul users don't have many alternatives. And if you believe Rakkhat’s is meant to replace Oakensoul... I genuinely feel sorry for you.

Rakkhat's is for heavy attack builds. Oakensoul was for 1-bar builds until empower got slapped on and it became popular for 1-bar heavy attack builds. The goal of Rakkhat is to be better for people wanting higher damage from a heavy attack build. Arcanist is not going to play like a heavy attack build even if you make it 1-bar.

A major reason leads don't allow oaken builds is because they've been burned too many times by players who aren't good enough and/or can't adapt to the content. Not everyone is going to take a risk on people and there's enough oakensoul players with an attitude problem (want to play with meta players but hate meta, get intense when they're told what to do, etc.) that it is a bigger risk to take an oaken build.

Asikoo · June 23

twisttop138 wrote: »

You're right, making your own group is t easy, but it's the number 1 way to make sure things go how you want them to go no matter what. Finding your own group is much easier but not super easy sure. If you won't put in the smallest effort though in finding the group that fits you then what are you doing? It can take some work but it's worth it. I can only play from like 7 to 10 on weekdays not weekends. I had to find groups that raid in that time. It took trial and error. I joined quite a few guilds that I had to then leave because our needs didn't line up. Eventually though, be side I wanted it, I found two amazing guilds and they play in my time frame and I've learned awesome stuff. This is all I'm trying to tell you man. That if you put in the work you will find what you're looking for. You seem to be looking to be the victim. The entitled attitude won't get you anywhere. Besides. If those groups that deny you due to oakensoul build, are they your type of people? Would you have enjoyed playing with them?

...But here's the thing: why is it always Oakensoul players who are told to go "make their own group"? Why is our build the one that makes us instantly less welcome, even when we know the mechanics and show up ready to contribute? (low DPS!?)

There are plenty of skilled Oakensoul players who parse higher than some 2bar players, but they still get excluded from PuGs just for using Oakensoul, and then excluded again from endgame content for “low DPS,” even when their numbers prove otherwise. Sure, 180k (2bars) vs 100k (1bar) might look like a big difference on paper, but for someone who physically can’t do more, because real life doesn’t allow it, that gap shouldn’t be a wall keeping them out.

No one's saying we should be auto-accepted into every raid, that's not the point. The point is that the bar for acceptance is moved higher for us just because of our build. Meanwhile, people running underperforming meta builds, even if they parse less than an Oakensoul players still get more benefit of the doubt, simply because their bars look right.

You’re absolutely right that if a group doesn't respect your playstyle, maybe it’s not the group for you. But imagine if you were shut down at the door before anyone even saw how you play, that’s what a lot of us deal with. That’s why this conversation keeps coming up.

It’s not about being a victim. It’s about wanting a space in the community where being different or needing something simpler, doesn’t automatically mean you’re lesser.

RealLoveBVB · June 23

Asikoo wrote: »

Alright, just let me know when you’re all going to run vRG HM, vDSR HM, vAS+2 HM, or any other hard mode, I’ll be glad to join using Oakensoul.
If I’m not able to join for any reason, I’d really appreciate it if you could let me know why.

Which buffs for your group do you have to offer? Which debuffs for bosses/adds do you have to offer?

Oakensoul is not just about keeping up with damage.
Oakensoul is anti-teamplay, as both questions are answered with "none".

2 bar players can offer buffs and debuffs, while still doing high damage. Oakensoul can't do that.

preevious · June 23

Asikoo wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

Well, you can just bring out oakensoul bigger, meaner brother : rakkhat's voidmanle.
Trickier to use, but parsing 120k is not that hard.

120k is plenty enough, and no one is gonna dismiss you for it, unless it's the HA build that's not welcome, and that's nothing more than an ideology, at this point.

Why settle for a 120k parse when you can use an Arcanist and hit 130k+?? And the Arcanist is even easier to play than any build with Rakkhat’s.

Oakensoul was designed for a very specific group of players. Sure, others use it just for fun, but its main purpose is to support players who struggle with weaving, lag, complex rotations and etc... Rakkhat’s is not better than Oakensoul. If you think it is, you really need to try one-bar Arcanist, it's 100% better in every way.

edit:
Like I said, Oakensoul was created for many reasons, mainly to support a very specific group of players. And if you think it’s fair that in a multiplayer game some players can parse 180k+ while others, who already face real-life challenges, struggle to break 100k… that just highlights how flawed many design decisions are within the company.

These players don’t want special treatment, they just want to play the game and be part of high-end content like HM trials and trifectas, just like everyone else. As long as they know the mechanics and what to do, they should be allowed to participate.

But no, they get excluded in real life, and now we’re showing them they’re not even “good enough” to play a damn game!

Oakensoul users don't have many alternatives. And if you believe Rakkhat’s is meant to replace Oakensoul... I genuinely feel sorry for you.

Well, It was not against you, mate. And yes, I agree that 130 > 120, yeah.
Truth is, I was built as a HA build, as a sorcerer, and I don't want to rebuild that much.

Why would I, when I'm already top dps or second best in most veteran content I run? I don't run trifectas, I run vTrial for the fun of it.

So, yes, you are right, but I'll still keep my rakkhat sorc, cause it's fun.

So, yes. Arcanist is better (though my survavibility is better than theirs), but rakkhat sorc is still more than plenty enough.

twisttop138 · June 23

Asikoo wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

You're right, making your own group is t easy, but it's the number 1 way to make sure things go how you want them to go no matter what. Finding your own group is much easier but not super easy sure. If you won't put in the smallest effort though in finding the group that fits you then what are you doing? It can take some work but it's worth it. I can only play from like 7 to 10 on weekdays not weekends. I had to find groups that raid in that time. It took trial and error. I joined quite a few guilds that I had to then leave because our needs didn't line up. Eventually though, be side I wanted it, I found two amazing guilds and they play in my time frame and I've learned awesome stuff. This is all I'm trying to tell you man. That if you put in the work you will find what you're looking for. You seem to be looking to be the victim. The entitled attitude won't get you anywhere. Besides. If those groups that deny you due to oakensoul build, are they your type of people? Would you have enjoyed playing with them?

...But here's the thing: why is it always Oakensoul players who are told to go "make their own group"? Why is our build the one that makes us instantly less welcome, even when we know the mechanics and show up ready to contribute? (low DPS!?)

There are plenty of skilled Oakensoul players who parse higher than some 2bar players, but they still get excluded from PuGs just for using Oakensoul, and then excluded again from endgame content for “low DPS,” even when their numbers prove otherwise. Sure, 180k (2bars) vs 100k (1bar) might look like a big difference on paper, but for someone who physically can’t do more, because real life doesn’t allow it, that gap shouldn’t be a wall keeping them out.

No one's saying we should be auto-accepted into every raid, that's not the point. The point is that the bar for acceptance is moved higher for us just because of our build. Meanwhile, people running underperforming meta builds, even if they parse less than an Oakensoul players still get more benefit of the doubt, simply because their bars look right.

You’re absolutely right that if a group doesn't respect your playstyle, maybe it’s not the group for you. But imagine if you were shut down at the door before anyone even saw how you play, that’s what a lot of us deal with. That’s why this conversation keeps coming up.

It’s not about being a victim. It’s about wanting a space in the community where being different or needing something simpler, doesn’t automatically mean you’re lesser.

I feel you dude. Idk how long you've been raiding but I remember when parsing hit SWTOR and to get on a team now you suddenly had to know the fights and have a parse. I thought to myself how am I supposed to learn the fights if I have to know the fights to get in a group to play. Starting your own group is advice I would give to anyone, especially if they are having trouble with pugs. Or finding a guild or team instead of pugging. Of course this is not the solution for everyone but there isn't a cookie cutter answer. I can't fix your problem, but I can try to make sure people with 1 bar builds are welcome. That's a rule in the guild. No parse or meta needed. I can't fix everyones problems but all I'm trying to tell you is that if you look you will find what you're looking for.

Asikoo · June 23

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Asikoo wrote: »

Alright, just let me know when you’re all going to run vRG HM, vDSR HM, vAS+2 HM, or any other hard mode, I’ll be glad to join using Oakensoul.
If I’m not able to join for any reason, I’d really appreciate it if you could let me know why.

Which buffs for your group do you have to offer? Which debuffs for bosses/adds do you have to offer?

Oakensoul is not just about keeping up with damage.
Oakensoul is anti-teamplay, as both questions are answered with "none".

2 bar players can offer buffs and debuffs, while still doing high damage. Oakensoul can't do that.

I wonder what buffs we even have in this PuG group. But sure, let’s just blame the Oakensorc player... oh wait!

Ph1p · June 23

Asikoo wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

You're right, making your own group is t easy, but it's the number 1 way to make sure things go how you want them to go no matter what. Finding your own group is much easier but not super easy sure. If you won't put in the smallest effort though in finding the group that fits you then what are you doing? It can take some work but it's worth it. I can only play from like 7 to 10 on weekdays not weekends. I had to find groups that raid in that time. It took trial and error. I joined quite a few guilds that I had to then leave because our needs didn't line up. Eventually though, be side I wanted it, I found two amazing guilds and they play in my time frame and I've learned awesome stuff. This is all I'm trying to tell you man. That if you put in the work you will find what you're looking for. You seem to be looking to be the victim. The entitled attitude won't get you anywhere. Besides. If those groups that deny you due to oakensoul build, are they your type of people? Would you have enjoyed playing with them?

...But here's the thing: why is it always Oakensoul players who are told to go "make their own group"? Why is our build the one that makes us instantly less welcome, even when we know the mechanics and show up ready to contribute? (low DPS!?)

No one's saying we should be auto-accepted into every raid, that's not the point. The point is that the bar for acceptance is moved higher for us just because of our build. Meanwhile, people running underperforming meta builds, even if they parse less than an Oakensoul players still get more benefit of the doubt, simply because their bars look right.

You’re absolutely right that if a group doesn't respect your playstyle, maybe it’s not the group for you. But imagine if you were shut down at the door before anyone even saw how you play, that’s what a lot of us deal with. That’s why this conversation keeps coming up.

It’s not about being a victim. It’s about wanting a space in the community where being different or needing something simpler, doesn’t automatically mean you’re lesser.

The way you're phrasing it here, I can empathize a lot more with the situation you're describing. I agree it's not fair for people to reject Oakensoul builds outright without looking at the player and their capabilities in more detail. I would also agree that "make your own group" isn't really a meaningful option for someone who just wants to do a few trials. It's a bit like saying: "Oh, can't find a job as a nurse? Why don't you just build your own hospital?"

At the same time, I think @Soarora is right that some raids leads got burned. Consider this: With a stable damage balance and progression, raid leads quickly get a feeling that the average player who can parse - say - 40k is usually able to do content X, while 80k means they're more experienced and can do Y. But if you now give a 45k player something that pushes their damage to 85k within 5 minutes, then they look suitable for Y on paper, even though they might not have progressed enough yet to do well there. Let this happen a few times and some leads turn against such builds, especially in PUGs.

This situation may not be ideal, but I hope you realize that most of this isn't personal or born out of malicious intent. And groups with higher ambitions, such as newer HMs or trifectas, simply need such high requirements that Oakensoul (and most other) players just cannot meet them. All I can say is that I've seen great guilds and raid leads out there, who make enormous effort to welcome anyone. But people, who make sweeping generalizations of elitism and aim for trifectas from the start, won't ever find that space within a community they're looking for...

Renato90085 · June 23

Asikoo wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Asikoo wrote: »

Alright, just let me know when you’re all going to run vRG HM, vDSR HM, vAS+2 HM, or any other hard mode, I’ll be glad to join using Oakensoul.
If I’m not able to join for any reason, I’d really appreciate it if you could let me know why.

Which buffs for your group do you have to offer? Which debuffs for bosses/adds do you have to offer?

Oakensoul is not just about keeping up with damage.
Oakensoul is anti-teamplay, as both questions are answered with "none".

2 bar players can offer buffs and debuffs, while still doing high damage. Oakensoul can't do that.

I wonder what buffs we even have in this PuG group. But sure, let’s just blame the Oakensorc player... oh wait!

pug mean you cant expect tank and healer and sup dd use good sup set help you high dps,and some combat will easy lost dps if you all dont know some mech(solo dome dsr?)
check dps good or bad best way is in group check highest and lowest..it mean in same buff how many you and they can do

moo_2021 · June 23

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Because you're proposing giving away "valuable enhancements" (your own words) absolutely free, just for being level 50. And as if that isn't enough, you further propose that it should stack with other mythics!

Valuable to some players yes, but how does it affect 2 bar players? If the option is freely available, we would see just how popular one bar is, and it could potentially attract a lot more players to ESO. And you won't see any complaints about rejection anymore if half of new players just go with one bar.

And yes stacking with mythics is the main point. Obviously some balancing would be needed and the free option shouldn't buff too much.

wolfie1.0. · June 23

Sometimes things are a matter or prespective.

From a certian point of view, one person's gatekeeping is another person's preference to playing with people they like.

And yes, for some that just means your numbers aren't good enough.

But most players, really don't care what your numbers are, so long as the content is done and no one is rude about anything, including group wipes.

I have gone into pug trials with pale order on and was wondering why I was dying. I forgot to remove it. Didn't blame healer, but healer reminded me that they couldn't heal me... everyone was kind about it.

Also, with subclassing and other gear sets, Oakensoul is no longer the ONLY viable option for one bar builds, or 1.5 bar builds. Really all that is needed is to have 1 or 2 more class or guild skills that have "while equipped on either bar" with benefits and its pretty much there. This is way better than relying on a single mythic that you can still use.

If you reserve the back bar for things like emergency heals or buff skills that last for 30 seconds or more. Your really not bar swapping with the fury that we have been in the past.

VvwvenomwvV · June 23

It sounds like a lot of the issues people have with it would be fixed if Zos allowed you to bar swap with it. It'd also be nice if they reverted it back to the original flat value buffs. As for a penalty, they could make casting skills cost 33% more, or something like that.

kevkj · June 24

If one bar arcanists can hit 130k why don't the people who 'need' Oakensoul just use Arcanist instead? If you have a physical disability, it is unfortunate that some gameplay styles will not be viable for you and you will have to pick the one that works which in this case is Arcanist. I'm pretty sure even before u46, the highest damage setup with Oakensoul was just arcanist. If it causes you mental anguish not to have the Oakensoul ring equipped, put it on your arcanist.

I'm not really sure why anyone who is somewhat forced into using a one bar build for physical reasons would prefer to be forced to use the Oakensoul ring, rather than preferring the current situation where one bar builds perform better without it. Previously you were put in a cage named Oakensoul and now that the cage door has been unlocked you are screaming for it to be shut again.

moo_2021 · June 24

kevkj wrote: »

If one bar arcanists can hit 130k why don't the people who 'need' Oakensoul just use Arcanist instead? If you have a physical disability, it is unfortunate that some gameplay styles will not be viable for you and you will have to pick the one that works which in this case is Arcanist. I'm pretty sure even before u46, the highest damage setup with Oakensoul was just arcanist. If it causes you mental anguish not to have the Oakensoul ring equipped, put it on your arcanist.

You mean everyone just choose the same playstyle instead of one bar with at least some choices.

ADarklore · June 24

Ok, so I didn't read EVERY post... but enough of them. I just struggle to get past the attitudes that persist on pushing a story that so many other commenters on this thread have PROVEN false.

This notion that, "Oakensoul isn't welcome in endgame content" when comment after comment after comment PROVES that false. Players saying, "I run Oakensoul and never have a problem"... and yet these others insist and continuing to push the false narrative that Oakensoul isn't acceptable. Just because YOU don't like it or want it, doesn't mean many many other players don't... or don't care one way or the other.

kevkj · June 24

moo_2021 wrote: »

You mean everyone just choose the same playstyle instead of one bar with at least some choices.

One bar arcanist is simply one of the other choices? Without Oakensoul you have a choice of so many other good mythics: Pale Order for self healing, Velothi for damage while minimizing the need to weave light attacks, Malacath if your setup lets you exceed crit cap, Monomyth if perhaps you play solo and want Major Force all the time etc.

Now with subclassing, you have ways to passive obtain the important buffs from Oakensoul on your unused backbar. For example, Tome Bearer's Inspiration for Major Brutality, Inferno for Major Savagery and with your third line you could get Minor Resolve + Minor Protection + Max Mag from Bound Armor or Minor Expedition + Weapon Damage through the Assassination skill line. That's even without mentioning that you could have always got Major Brutality and Savagery from potions.

Taking the Oakensoul ring off doesn't mean you have to play with both bars. On the other hand, no one is forcing you to take it off. But if you're unhappy with your damage output with Oakensoul on, there are other ways to play one bar without the ring believe it or not. The primary issue with all the Oakensoul complaints is the false equivalence that you must use Oakensoul to play one bar. It was the best option for a time, and every one bar user was forced into using it to keep up. Now that your options to play one bar have expanded, you are wailing to the heavens to demand Oakensoul to be the forced default option for one bar again. It is truly insane to witness.

If there's anyone reading who feels trapped in using Oakensoul for one bar but wants to do more damage, feel free to message me. I'll help you make a one bar setup with a higher damage output. I can't guarantee 130k obviously, but I also won't just tell you to use Fatecarver.

Koshka · June 24

Soarora wrote: »

A major reason leads don't allow oaken builds is because they've been burned too many times by players who aren't good enough and/or can't adapt to the content. Not everyone is going to take a risk on people and there's enough oakensoul players with an attitude problem (want to play with meta players but hate meta, get intense when they're told what to do, etc.) that it is a bigger risk to take an oaken build.

This right here.
I don't have anything against Oakensoul, its users, or 1 bar builds in general. But there is a weird cult-like mentality around this mythic. I've seen countless new players who go for that ring at cp160 without even trying alternatives and lots of people who are getting VERY defensive (if not passive-agressive) when anyone suggests that some other mythics can be better in different situations. That, and hating on "meta sheeps" while using the same exact build as everyone else.
Of course, not every one bar player is like this, but I see this very often and I can understand raid leads who see this ring as a red flag.

Oh, and also there is an issue with people assuming that copying a build from youtube would automatically allow you to be able to play just as good as the build author without any practice. But to be fair, that's often the fault of the youtubers who claim that their build enables god mode or something.

BananaBender · June 25

One reason people don't want Oakensoul players into their HM or Trifecta progs is that Oakensoul is completely useless in those environments. What I mean by this is that you get the same buffs from your group as you get from Oakensoul, meaning you lose access to you back bar and gain absolutely nothing in return. There more organized the group is, the more of a handicap that mythic is. There are much better mythics for both one bar and heavy attack builds than Oakensoul.

Orbital78 · June 25

Oakensoul is fine for all content up until 12 person hard modes. You may be in the middle or bottom of the dps in a group with experienced players. What I loved about oakensoul was it was very versitile, I could act as a mini healer all while doing okay dps.

Mayhaps you haven't fully honed your builds to their potential. The new Rakkhat mythic increased my dps ~20k in vRG HM, I just wish Mage's guild Empower buff was more like 15-20 seconds. I still don't have a fully personalized build yet either, I went and had to add Daedric back for some survivability. The new mythic also feels like it could use some passive buffs with it as well, but it can push a heavy attack build a bit higher. In all honesty I had high hopes but it doesn't feel that great with the resource regen hit.

Beams are easier and just way more powerful playstyle. Even with my hand/wrist issues I can do way more damage with less effort doing a beam build than with heavy attack builds, even though everyone says heavy attack builds are no skill and easy.

At the end of the day, play how you want to. There are plenty of viable playstyles, though some are obviously way better than others.

maboleth · June 25

I love my ring. I play pvp. Couldn't care less about what a dummy output gives. IMO, the whole 'dps' obsession some players have here is ridiculous. I understand for those die/tryhard trial players, but other than that, it's some posh stuff.

Soarora · June 25

maboleth wrote: »

I love my ring. I play pvp. Couldn't care less about what a dummy output gives. IMO, the whole 'dps' obsession some players have here is ridiculous. I understand for those die/tryhard trial players, but other than that, it's some posh stuff.

DPS is fairly important in PvE as there’s some already long fights that go on even longer with low DPS. Meaning if everyone dies, you have more time lost. Makes progs more psychologically painful and makes fights harder for tanks. There’s also hard DPS checks in some content. But a proper oakensorc ha build doesn’t even have the low DPS that makes fights painful, bad oakenha builds do but bad any build type does.

LordOsiris · June 25

If you play Oakensoul you have to understand the game thoroughly otherwise the ring is useless. I agree with some players who hate some Oakensoul players but I would never put my ring away and I ONLY play Oakensoul on most of my toons. I love the ring because of its diverse possibilities at all levels. PvP, PvE, Dungon, Trials, you can master everything if you understand what this ring really does and how it should be played. Unfortunately most players don't realize that this ring really negates ALL Trial sets, renders many Dungon sets useless and makes many skills simply superfluous. Oakensoul is really only fun for experienced players who understand sets, characters and situations. Beginners usually fail completely with Oakensoul. This ring really isn't meant for most players; there are better sets for the crowd. Condemning one ring because players have no idea is simply not productive