Vengeance Test Campaign Round 2 (June 30-July 8)

LadyGP · June 24

Just wanted to make a post and let everyone know the secound round of testing for PvP (Vengeance) is coming next week. I haven't seen anything on the forums about it and it was somewhat burried in the June 2025 Spotlight (survival Guide).

Vengeance Campaign (June 30-July 8)

The Vengeance Campaign returns! Help us continue to test changes to ESO’s Alliance War PvP campaign with new abilities and changes. If you enjoyed the previous test campaign, be on the lookout for additional information in late June.

The Vengeance test campaign returns!

Golden Pursuits: Cyrodiil Scramble (June 30-July 8)

Take up the sword (or bow, or staff), and charge into battle! Complete Cyrodiil Scramble Golden Pursuit campaign activities to collect bonus Gold and Alliance Points! Look for more details on June 30.

I'd be interested in getting a quick rundown of what’s different from the last round? If healing mechanics, siege damage scaling, or AP rewards have shifted, let us know what situations (large-scale keeps, small-group skirmishes, resource fights, etc.) you’d like us to stress-test so we can give focused feedback @ZOS_Kevin.

Cooperharley · June 24

Will this be just on PTS? I wish console players could participate.

LadyGP · June 24

Cooperharley wrote: »

Will this be just on PTS? I wish console players could participate.

I believe this is on live but only for PC/NA. Kevin might be able to confirm.

Edit:

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

It's on live servers like the last Vengeance Test was. We will have an updated FAQ for the Vengeance Test the morning it goes live. We will also have some news later this week to share regarding more Vengeance Test info.

Last time it was PC-NA and PC-EU. Thanks @Maitsukas!

Cooperharley · June 24

Maitsukas · June 24

LadyGP wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

Will this be just on PTS? I wish console players could participate.

I believe this is on live but only for PC/NA. Kevin might be able to confirm.

The last one was available on both PC-NA and PC-EU, I don't think they want to keep it to only one server.

preevious · June 24

What's a vengeance campain? Is there special mechanic?

ZOS_Kevin · June 24

It's on live servers like the last Vengeance Test was. We will have an updated FAQ for the Vengeance Test the morning it goes live. We will also have some news later this week to share regarding more Vengeance Test info.

LadyGP · June 24

Maitsukas wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

Will this be just on PTS? I wish console players could participate.

I believe this is on live but only for PC/NA. Kevin might be able to confirm.

The last one was available on both PC-NA and PC-EU, I don't think they want to keep it to only one server.

Oh it was on PCEU? I don't know how I missed that... good catch.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

It's on live servers like the last Vengeance Test was. We will have an updated FAQ for the Vengeance Test the morning it goes live. We will also have some news later this week to share regarding more Vengeance Test info.

SWEET!!!!! Looking forward to it. Thanks Kevin (hope you're doing well!).

tomofhyrule · June 24

The PTS did test skill lines for the weapons and assault/support skills this round, so it is likely those would be opened up as well.

IIRC though Subclassing is not included. The characters had the standard three class lines.

LPapirius · June 24

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

It's on live servers like the last Vengeance Test was. We will have an updated FAQ for the Vengeance Test the morning it goes live. We will also have some news later this week to share regarding more Vengeance Test info.

Does this mean vengeance will be the only Cyrodiil PvP option during this "test"?

....I'm really hoping we can get live at the same time so ZOS can see numbers that really matter.

LadyGP · June 24

LPapirius wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

It's on live servers like the last Vengeance Test was. We will have an updated FAQ for the Vengeance Test the morning it goes live. We will also have some news later this week to share regarding more Vengeance Test info.

Does this mean vengeance will be the only Cyrodiil PvP option during this "test"?

....I'm really hoping we can get live at the same time so ZOS can see numbers that really matter.

Asusming it stays the same way it did last time then yes - this will be the only cyro camp during that time.

This is not isolated to PTS - it will be on the live prod branch.

YandereGirlfriend · June 24

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

It's on live servers like the last Vengeance Test was. We will have an updated FAQ for the Vengeance Test the morning it goes live. We will also have some news later this week to share regarding more Vengeance Test info.

Serious question: can we have one of these tests with add-ons completely disabled in Cyrodiil?

IMO, that is a data point that really needs to be collected to get an accurate picture of what costs what in terms of game performance.

acastanza_ESO · June 24

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

It's on live servers like the last Vengeance Test was. We will have an updated FAQ for the Vengeance Test the morning it goes live. We will also have some news later this week to share regarding more Vengeance Test info.

Serious question: can we have one of these tests with add-ons completely disabled in Cyrodiil?

IMO, that is a data point that really needs to be collected to get an accurate picture of what costs what in terms of game performance.

Why? With the sole exception of information you share with group members over the highly regulated data sharing API, (and formerly the MapPings API), your addons have zero impact anyone else. Disabling addons would give ZOS no additional information about server-side performance issues, which is what these tests are about.

Deimus · June 25

Great! A Cyrodiil with no lag, balls, heal stacking, or pull sets is a Cyrodiil worth playing.

Erickson9610 · June 25

LPapirius wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

It's on live servers like the last Vengeance Test was. We will have an updated FAQ for the Vengeance Test the morning it goes live. We will also have some news later this week to share regarding more Vengeance Test info.

Does this mean vengeance will be the only Cyrodiil PvP option during this "test"?

....I'm really hoping we can get live at the same time so ZOS can see numbers that really matter.

Measuring player preference isn't the goal of the Vengeance tests.

Sintao · June 25

LPapirius wrote: »

Does this mean vengeance will be the only Cyrodiil PvP option during this "test"?

....I'm really hoping we can get live at the same time so ZOS can see numbers that really matter.

It was the only option during the fist test when Vengeance was run on live 9and I could not complete 'Welcome to Cyrodiil' a as result. No huge issue there and it was a heck of a lot of fun.

LouisaB75 · June 25

I loved playing in the first one so looking forward to this one too. Be interesting to see what has changed.

I am hoping that quests are active, like someone else I got stuck with a new toon who could not do the welcome quest during the event. Thankfully my new toons for messing with subclassing have already got their mount speed sorted so I won't have that issue this time around.

The alliance war skill lines would be nice too so I hope that is correct. As a player who was heavy on the class skills, I didn't realise how many alliance war skills I used until they were no longer available. The one that increases the range of the sieges was particularly missed because I was so used to dropping my siege in particular spots and suddenly I was out of range on them. And by the time I had found a new spot the siege limit was reached.

Would like to be able to interact with stuff too. See the last sky shards I needed there for the collecting but unable to interact with them was very much a so near and yet so far moment.

But I appreciate that they have to bring things back gradually and everything won't come back at once.

xylena_lazarow · June 25

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

add-ons completely disabled in Cyrodiil

Performance was near perfect with addons enabled in the previous test, so no need for this.

My main concern would be players getting bored of large scale without sieges like Meatbags to break up the open field zergs. The new skill lines they added on PTS were excellent for individual builds, but without sieges to even the odds in the open field, the bigger zerg can just walk onto the flags and win trivially, not caring if they lose a few guys to oil.

JustLovely · June 25

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

It's on live servers like the last Vengeance Test was. We will have an updated FAQ for the Vengeance Test the morning it goes live. We will also have some news later this week to share regarding more Vengeance Test info.

Does this mean vengeance will be the only Cyrodiil PvP option during this "test"?

....I'm really hoping we can get live at the same time so ZOS can see numbers that really matter.

Measuring player preference isn't the goal of the Vengeance tests.

The problem is it should be. It should be the most important measure.

I'm not buying that ZOS will ever support both a vengeance mode and a live mode going forward, and since I don't like vengeance mode, I don't like where this appears to be heading at all.

JustLovely · June 25

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

It's on live servers like the last Vengeance Test was. We will have an updated FAQ for the Vengeance Test the morning it goes live. We will also have some news later this week to share regarding more Vengeance Test info.

Will vengeance mode be the only Cyrodiil PvP option during this test?

@ZOS_Kevin

Aquatorch · June 25

*sigh*

The last Vengeance was horrible and boring. I've spent thousands of hours farming gear and theory crafting builds only for vengeance to allow absolutely nothing other than WWI style fighting that has no skill, tact, or planning...

Aquatorch · June 25

JustLovely wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

It's on live servers like the last Vengeance Test was. We will have an updated FAQ for the Vengeance Test the morning it goes live. We will also have some news later this week to share regarding more Vengeance Test info.

Does this mean vengeance will be the only Cyrodiil PvP option during this "test"?

....I'm really hoping we can get live at the same time so ZOS can see numbers that really matter.

Measuring player preference isn't the goal of the Vengeance tests.

The problem is it should be. It should be the most important measure.

I'm not buying that ZOS will ever support both a vengeance mode and a live mode going forward, and since I don't like vengeance mode, I don't like where this appears to be heading at all.

Agreed and ZOS will lose out from people quitting. If Vengeance becomes a permanent thing and only option, I will stop playing the game. I understand that I alone will make little impact on their bottom dollar, but all of my friends will also stop playing as well.

xylena_lazarow · June 25

Aquatorch wrote: »

Agreed and ZOS will lose out from people quitting.

They're already losing out from people quitting. Badly. That's why they made Vengeance.

Live is a lost cause. They can't even be bothered to address Rushing Agony, and they keep introducing yet more broken procs like the instant 10k burst on Null Arca. The ball group problem is dozens of problems in a trenchcoat. Nevermind the performance, which would still drive players away even if the balance was perfect.

If not for the promise of Vengeance, I'd be losing hope right now. I've already cancelled ESO+ over their lack of response regarding Rushing Agony and Assassination line in PvP, not that I think it'll change anything, but that I've personally had enough of spending money on a product with such glaring flaws.

Deimus · June 25

Aquatorch wrote: »

*sigh*

The last Vengeance was horrible and boring. I've spent thousands of hours farming gear and theory crafting builds only for vengeance to allow absolutely nothing other than WWI style fighting that has no skill, tact, or planning...

Vengeance is more challenging and skill intensive. No carry sets so you must rely on your skills and timing, everyone is playing with similar stats so the playing field is more even, sustain is worse so you can't just press buttons, every mistake is more punishing, and groups still have benefit in coordination they just can't turn on cheese godmode by abusing bad mechanics like heal/shield stacking then crutch on pull sets to ult dump.

Vengeance was the most players they've ever had in Cyrodiil at once, fights all over the map, seeing messages like "Your alliance has reached the maximum capacity for forward camps" for the first time, performance was pristine I only experienced lag a couple of times the entire test, and it actually felt like a battlefield and keep sieges. If that's horrible and boring, but you think live Cyrodiil where plan A is stacking so many HoTs and shields where you can ignore all incoming damage and plan B is resource/rock/tower hugging is the epitome of skill, planning, and engaging gameplay idk what to tell you.

I think ZOS could've done better letting players know the test was even happening by using in game announcements since the last couple of days when players came to check out the golden vendor zone chat was filled with players who knew nothing about the test. Hitting record numbers when you fail to advertise your test just shows how much potential Cyro has and puts a spotlight on how much they dropped the ball with live Cyro to where many PvPers myself included won't even touch it from how many issues they've let fester.

LadyGP · June 25

JustLovely wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

It's on live servers like the last Vengeance Test was. We will have an updated FAQ for the Vengeance Test the morning it goes live. We will also have some news later this week to share regarding more Vengeance Test info.

Does this mean vengeance will be the only Cyrodiil PvP option during this "test"?

....I'm really hoping we can get live at the same time so ZOS can see numbers that really matter.

Measuring player preference isn't the goal of the Vengeance tests.

The problem is it should be. It should be the most important measure.

I'm not buying that ZOS will ever support both a vengeance mode and a live mode going forward, and since I don't like vengeance mode, I don't like where this appears to be heading at all.

With all due respect, measuring player preference right now is kind of pointless if Cyrodiil’s performance is so bad that people can’t even play. ZOS has been very clear—and honestly, pretty vocal—that this testing phase is just the beginning. Their main goal is to fix Cyro performance first. Once they’ve got that locked down, then they’ll start looking at broader improvements—maybe a map rework, adding world events, changes based on time of day or week, things like that. That part’s just speculation on my end, but still.

The only thing that actually matters right now is fixing Cyro. Players have been screaming “fix Cyro” for years—and now they’re finally doing it. Yeah, the first test didn’t include a ton of new stuff, but despite that, the vast majority of people who played had a great time. Performance was actually playable, and that alone made it fun.

They’ve already said that what we saw in the first test isn’t what Cyrodiil will look like moving forward. If I had to guess, they’re breaking down every skill in the game—looking at all the different effects each one applies (some of these skills do like 3 or 4 things at once)—and figuring out how much each piece impacts performance. Then they’re probably reworking them to be more server-efficient. I’d imagine that approach will eventually carry over into Champion Points and item sets too.

Will people be frustrated when their favorite skill that they’ve been using for 5+ years gets changed? Of course. But will they adjust their builds and playstyle once the final version of Vengeance becomes the new Cyro? Yeah, they will.

Honestly, I think ZOS deserves some credit for finally listening and acting on the feedback. This was long overdue, and it’s actually exciting to see Cyrodiil getting this level of focus.

Aquatorch wrote: »

*sigh*

The last Vengeance was horrible and boring. I've spent thousands of hours farming gear and theory crafting builds only for vengeance to allow absolutely nothing other than WWI style fighting that has no skill, tact, or planning...

“Horrible and boring” honestly doesn’t line up with what I was hearing from most people—in zone chat, on social media, or even on the forums. If you went into the test expecting to see how combat felt or to check out some flashy new features, then yeah, I can see how you’d walk away disappointed. But I’m not sure why anyone would go into the test with that mindset to begin with.

ZOS was pretty clear from the start: they stripped the game down as much as possible so they could get this performance test out quickly. The whole point was to see whether changes to skills had any measurable impact on server performance. That’s it. This test wasn’t about showcasing new combat mechanics, balance changes, or strategic gameplay—it was strictly about performance.

The test was wildly succesful and they have the data to back that claim up.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Aquatorch wrote: »

Agreed and ZOS will lose out from people quitting.

They're already losing out from people quitting. Badly. That's why they made Vengeance.

Live is a lost cause. They can't even be bothered to address Rushing Agony, and they keep introducing yet more broken procs like the instant 10k burst on Null Arca. The ball group problem is dozens of problems in a trenchcoat. Nevermind the performance, which would still drive players away even if the balance was perfect.

If not for the promise of Vengeance, I'd be losing hope right now. I've already cancelled ESO+ over their lack of response regarding Rushing Agony and Assassination line in PvP, not that I think it'll change anything, but that I've personally had enough of spending money on a product with such glaring flaws.

I hear your frustration, and I get it—Live feels rough right now. But honestly, complaints about Rushing Agony and ball groups have been around forever. And while there are counters (yes, even to ball groups—have you tried just blocking the bleep pull?), that’s beside the point right now.

ZOS isn’t touching those skills at the moment because Vengeance is their focus. They’ve already said this is a performance-first test, and I’d bet good money that Rush and similar abilities are high on the list of things getting reworked. Pull mechanics, healing stacks, proc bombs—all of it likely has a performance cost they’re evaluating. Skill changes are already underway, and I’m pretty sure sets will be next in line.

Live isn’t the priority anymore, and that’s by design. It’s not that they don’t care—it’s that they’ve shifted their resources into overhauling Cyro from the ground up. That’s what Vengeance is. And yeah, ball groups are going to keep doing their thing, but that just means we theorycraft, adapt, and find new ways to play. That’s always been the cycle.

I respect taking a stand with your wallet, but for some of us, this shift toward performance and actual system reworks is exactly the sign of hope we’ve been waiting for. We’re not going anywhere.

LadyGP · June 25

Deimus wrote: »

Aquatorch wrote: »

*sigh*

The last Vengeance was horrible and boring. I've spent thousands of hours farming gear and theory crafting builds only for vengeance to allow absolutely nothing other than WWI style fighting that has no skill, tact, or planning...

Vengeance is more challenging and skill intensive. No carry sets so you must rely on your skills and timing, everyone is playing with similar stats so the playing field is more even, sustain is worse so you can't just press buttons, every mistake is more punishing, and groups still have benefit in coordination they just can't turn on cheese godmode by abusing bad mechanics like heal/shield stacking then crutch on pull sets to ult dump.

Vengeance was the most players they've ever had in Cyrodiil at once, fights all over the map, seeing messages like "Your alliance has reached the maximum capacity for forward camps" for the first time, performance was pristine I only experienced lag a couple of times the entire test, and it actually felt like a battlefield and keep sieges. If that's horrible and boring, but you think live Cyrodiil where plan A is stacking so many HoTs and shields where you can ignore all incoming damage and plan B is resource/rock/tower hugging is the epitome of skill, planning, and engaging gameplay idk what to tell you.

I think ZOS could've done better letting players know the test was even happening by using in game announcements since the last couple of days when players came to check out the golden vendor zone chat was filled with players who knew nothing about the test. Hitting record numbers when you fail to advertise your test just shows how much potential Cyro has and puts a spotlight on how much they dropped the ball with live Cyro to where many PvPers myself included won't even touch it from how many issues they've let fester.

To your last point here - man the clips that I saw - the word of mouth of the huge fights - them announcing they were pushing the cap to extremes to see where the line was - all of this drove real and raw attention to cyro I haven't seen in many years.

It was pretty bad ass to watch - and be apart of.

xylena_lazarow · June 25

LadyGP wrote: »

I respect taking a stand with your wallet, but for some of us, this shift toward performance and actual system reworks is exactly the sign of hope we’ve been waiting for. We’re not going anywhere.

If/when Vengeance is a finished product that delivers the PvP experience I want, I'll gladly pay again. It shows a lot of promise, but next week is still just a test, not a permanent addition.

LadyGP · June 25

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

I respect taking a stand with your wallet, but for some of us, this shift toward performance and actual system reworks is exactly the sign of hope we’ve been waiting for. We’re not going anywhere.

If/when Vengeance is a finished product that delivers the PvP experience I want, I'll gladly pay again. It shows a lot of promise, but next week is still just a test, not a permanent addition.

Yes, I agree with everything you just said. ZoS has made it clear it's not permanent. This is just the next iteration of their test and attempt to collect more data.

xylena_lazarow · June 25

LadyGP wrote: »

And while there are counters (yes, even to ball groups—have you tried just blocking the bleep pull?), that’s beside the point right now.

It's right on point still because playing around Rushing Agony is about as much fun as commuting through 3 hours of rush hour traffic, and fun is what I'm paying for. The new subclass Rushing Agony build combos a fear stun into Colossus ult, you must counter within the split second they become visible, trying to block gets you stunned and instakilled.

YandereGirlfriend · June 25

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

It's on live servers like the last Vengeance Test was. We will have an updated FAQ for the Vengeance Test the morning it goes live. We will also have some news later this week to share regarding more Vengeance Test info.

Serious question: can we have one of these tests with add-ons completely disabled in Cyrodiil?

IMO, that is a data point that really needs to be collected to get an accurate picture of what costs what in terms of game performance.

Why? With the sole exception of information you share with group members over the highly regulated data sharing API, (and formerly the MapPings API), your addons have zero impact anyone else. Disabling addons would give ZOS no additional information about server-side performance issues, which is what these tests are about.

There's zero harm in simply collecting the data point. Surely add-on users can survive without them for a week.

We also heard this same line of argumentation about how there was no possible way that Bandits could impact other people not running it it. And yet that was simply not true. It did. All of the doubters were instantly edified.

Simply gather the data and let the chips fall where they may. Maybe it's true and there is no impact. Or maybe it's just a collective blind-spot from add-on users trying to keep hold of their toys, like the case of Bandits.

We also know that the impact of add-ons isn't free. Nothing in computing is. Hence the cap on server calls. But that cap was last revised ages ago AFAIK and the appropriate value in 2018 may or may not still be the appropriate value in 2025.

Finally, add-on developers are always one (or many...) steps ahead of the ZOS devs in this. For example, the Map Pins situation was not an anticipated use case by the devs of the API. And it literally took a forum user to bring that to their attention. Do we really naively think that this is the only such instance of that? Because I don't.

tsaescishoeshiner · June 25

The last Vengeance campaign felt amazing to be in, mainly for the incredibly smooth performance with hundreds of players on screen. The class identity was a refreshing change, too, but probably would need balancing in the long term. Was it better, or just different? Not sure, but it was fun.

It was great to see the developers, streamers, and new PvP players enjoy how Cyrodiil was originally intended to be. Packed! Massive! And not getting 1-shot or having to watch people get farmed by ball groups.

The major performance improvements of Vengeance strongly suggest that it was not addons causing issues, which from what I can tell, is more of a "what if" theory without enough evidence or sound technical reasoning to dedicate major resources to. They could already collect data on server use of addons, which others have explained in more detail why it's far more minimal than the regular server load of just running around on a character.