Reimplement back bar passives for Oakensoul

Pixiepumpkin · June 8

Oakensoul is far from being "over powered" or over tuned as it was when it first came out. With the addition of subclassing and two bar builds reaching unfathomable heights in damage output, it only makes sense to buff Oakensoul for folks who can not play with two bars in order to maintain some ability to keep up with their 2 bar peers.

The simplest way to do this imo is to reimplement the back bar passive buffs from slotted abilities (I say simple, I am not aware of what that means internally to code. I am referring ot the conceptual idea of buffing the Oakensoul mythic.)

Sarannah · June 8

Or allow us to wear a second mythic with oakensoul equipped.

Renato90085 · June 8

why not just buff oaken...
use 1 bar but want own 2 bar buff feel like delete mythic debuff

Pixiepumpkin · June 8

Sarannah wrote: »

Or allow us to wear a second mythic with oakensoul equipped.

Agreed.

Oakensoul for many of us is more about not having good ping or having painful hands (its not about being lazy as asserted often).

I suggested in a feedback survey that Oakensoul should have its own unique slot, like a braclet or some kind of trinket, allowing for a second mythic. My primary reasoning, outside of making 1 bar builds reliable, is making 1 bar buiilds more fun.

It sucks that so many mythics exist and yet are useless for one bar builds.

I'd also like to see more vet worthy viability in one bar builds that are not HA, but use abilities instead.

SkaiFaith · June 8

Return Major Berserk instead of Minor Berserk.
(EDIT: forgot to say - and Major Courage instead of Minor Courage)
This would likely be enough.

Not really against the second bar passives but I suspect everyone would run NightBlade; it would have a big advantage over other classes probably (?)

DenverRalphy · June 8

There are already one bar builds using subclassing to hit 138k. You wanna buff on top of that?

Pixiepumpkin · June 8

DenverRalphy wrote: »

There are already one bar builds using subclassing to hit 138k. You wanna buff on top of that?

No, I want Oakensoul to be buffed. Those builds do not use Oakensoul.

Not the same thing.

Vaqual · June 8

No, the passive backbar options that exist are simply to powerful since arcanist came out and many were reworked. Oakensoul is a one-bar item. If you want to load your backbar with passive buffs you simply have to drop the item.

Pixiepumpkin · June 8

Vaqual wrote: »

No, the passive backbar options that exist are simply to powerful since arcanist came out and many were reworked. Oakensoul is a one-bar item. If you want to load your backbar with passive buffs you simply have to drop the item.

I disagree. Oakensoul builds with subclassing do not even reach pure double bar DPS builds, not by a landslide.

There is no reason that people who can not double bar/bar swap should not be able to be competitive. Sublcassing allows for two bar builds to do insane amounts of damage. Simply, the gap widened when it needed to be narrowed. Oakensoul needs a buff.

Thoriorz · June 8

DenverRalphy wrote: »

There are already one bar builds using subclassing to hit 138k. You wanna buff on top of that?

Builds? I know of one, and he's definitely not using Oeakensoul.

And I totally agree, Oakensoul deserves some form of buff. So +1 with this.

LunaFlora · June 8

Oakensoul buffs would be wonderful

i wish i could use 2 mythics at the same time.
i can't really see myself removing Oakensoul from my builds, but i wanna use the new Rakkhat Voidmantle mythic for the heavy attack buff.

DenverRalphy · June 8

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

There are already one bar builds using subclassing to hit 138k. You wanna buff on top of that?

No, I want Oakensoul to be buffed. Those builds do not use Oakensoul.

Not the same thing.

Thoriorz wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

There are already one bar builds using subclassing to hit 138k. You wanna buff on top of that?

Builds? I know of one, and he's definitely not using Oeakensoul.

And I totally agree, Oakensoul deserves some form of buff. So +1 with this.

That is correct, those builds do not use Oakensoul. For good reason.

This thread is predicated on there being a need for one bar builds to be competitive. After all, this was said in the OP...

buff Oakensoul for folks who can not play with two bars in order to maintain some ability to keep up with their 2 bar peer

Seems to me one bar builds CAN be competitive without buffing (or even requiring) Oakensoul. All buffing Oakensoul would accomplish is reinstating the God Mode that particular mythic created pre-nerf. Which is the last thing the game needs.

Oblivion_Protocol · June 8

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Seems to me one bar builds CAN be competitive without buffing (or even requiring) Oakensoul. All buffing Oakensoul would accomplish is reinstating the God Mode that particular mythic created pre-nerf. Which is the last thing the game needs.

As opposed to the God Mode builds that subclassing created, which is the thing the game needed even less than a buffed Oakensoul?

I think people forget that Oakensoul was conceived partially as an accessibility option. Folks who have conditions that prevent them from the rapid button pressing that bar swapping requires should be allowed to be as competitive as two bar builds are now.

Pixiepumpkin · June 8

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

There are already one bar builds using subclassing to hit 138k. You wanna buff on top of that?

No, I want Oakensoul to be buffed. Those builds do not use Oakensoul.

Not the same thing.

Thoriorz wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

There are already one bar builds using subclassing to hit 138k. You wanna buff on top of that?

Builds? I know of one, and he's definitely not using Oeakensoul.

And I totally agree, Oakensoul deserves some form of buff. So +1 with this.

That is correct, those builds do not use Oakensoul. For good reason.

This thread is predicated on there being a need for one bar builds to be competitive. After all, this was said in the OP...

buff Oakensoul for folks who can not play with two bars in order to maintain some ability to keep up with their 2 bar peer

Seems to me one bar builds CAN be competitive without buffing (or even requiring) Oakensoul. All buffing Oakensoul would accomplish is reinstating the God Mode that particular mythic created pre-nerf. Which is the last thing the game needs.

Except that I clearly stated "Buff Oakensoul". I am fully aware that "one bar" builds exist not using oakensoul. What I'd like to see however is Oakensoul Buffed...

There is no reason 1 bar builds should not be close to the same damage output as two bars. I fully expect two bar builds to pull the highest DPS, but there is no reason that a one bar can not get close using oakensoul

DenverRalphy · June 8

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Seems to me one bar builds CAN be competitive without buffing (or even requiring) Oakensoul. All buffing Oakensoul would accomplish is reinstating the God Mode that particular mythic created pre-nerf. Which is the last thing the game needs.

As opposed to the God Mode builds that subclassing created, which is the thing the game needed even less than a buffed Oakensoul?

I think people forget that Oakensoul was conceived partially as an accessibility option. Folks who have conditions that prevent them from the rapid button pressing that bar swapping requires should be allowed to be as competitive as two bar builds are now.

Subclassing needs to be detuned a bit itself. No reason to pile on more.

If accessibility is a consideration, without airing my personal situation I can confidently state that I am uniquely qualified to fully understand the need for accesibility options. And it really bothers me when people chime in with this line of reasoning willy nilly. There ARE other one bar builds that don't require Oakensoul. There's nothing magical about Oakensoul that makes it mandatory for one bar builds.

Pixiepumpkin · June 8

LunaFlora wrote: »

Oakensoul buffs would be wonderful

i wish i could use 2 mythics at the same time.
i can't really see myself removing Oakensoul from my builds, but i wanna use the new Rakkhat Voidmantle mythic for the heavy attack buff.

Agreed! I wish I could use two as well, well at least I wish I could use Oakensoul and another mythic at the same time.

I just feel like people who need the one bar for accessibility or due to super high ping (making bar swapping unreliable) do not really get to enjoy mythics to their full extent which is a shame because there are some really fun mythics.

I don't even chase mythic leads anymore because its pointless.

RealLoveBVB · June 8

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

There is no reason 1 bar builds should not be close to the same damage output as two bars.

Maintaining 2 bars, while having buffs and dots active almost on a 100% duration is the reason, that 2 bars should always more rewarding than maintaining only 1 bar.

Players should be rewarded for smashing buttons, rather than just holding the left mouse button.

Pixiepumpkin · June 8

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Seems to me one bar builds CAN be competitive without buffing (or even requiring) Oakensoul. All buffing Oakensoul would accomplish is reinstating the God Mode that particular mythic created pre-nerf. Which is the last thing the game needs.

As opposed to the God Mode builds that subclassing created, which is the thing the game needed even less than a buffed Oakensoul?

I think people forget that Oakensoul was conceived partially as an accessibility option. Folks who have conditions that prevent them from the rapid button pressing that bar swapping requires should be allowed to be as competitive as two bar builds are now.

Subclassing needs to be detuned a bit itself. No reason to pile on more.

If accessibility is a consideration, without airing my personal situation I can confidently state that I am uniquely qualified to fully understand the need for accesibility options. And it really bothers me when people chime in with this line of reasoning willy nilly.

As am I and its why I bring it up. You do not hold the patent on when people need to discuss accessibility needs.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

There ARE other one bar builds that don't require Oakensoul. There's nothing magical about Oakensoul that makes it mandatory in one bar builds.

Good. Then there is ZERO reason why Oakensoul should not be buffed to be competitve even in the hardest content the game offers.

Pixiepumpkin · June 8

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

There is no reason 1 bar builds should not be close to the same damage output as two bars.

Maintaining 2 bars, while having buffs and dots active almost on a 100% duration is the reason, that 2 bars should always more rewarding than maintaining only 1 bar.

Players should be rewarded for smashing buttons, rather than just holding the left mouse button.

1. Hence why I said close.
2. You assume that people who use oakensoul or one bar builds do so out of some form of laziness. That a two bar build should do better becaue you pressed more buttons.

And I would assert that mindsent is asinine. I don't use oakensoul because I am lazy, I use it because my hands cramp and I shake violently to the point I can not control the mouse, this ON TOP of my well over 200 ping that makes bar swapping unreliable in the first place.

So, why should I be excempt from the same content we both pay for equally? Because you pushed a few more buttons?

DenverRalphy · June 8

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

Oakensoul buffs would be wonderful

i wish i could use 2 mythics at the same time.
i can't really see myself removing Oakensoul from my builds, but i wanna use the new Rakkhat Voidmantle mythic for the heavy attack buff.

I just feel like people who need the one bar for accessibility or due to super high ping (making bar swapping unreliable) do not really get to enjoy mythics to their full extent which is a shame because there are some really fun mythics.

Associating high pings as an accessibility issue is an insult to players with actuall accessiblity issues.

Pixiepumpkin · June 8

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

Oakensoul buffs would be wonderful

i wish i could use 2 mythics at the same time.
i can't really see myself removing Oakensoul from my builds, but i wanna use the new Rakkhat Voidmantle mythic for the heavy attack buff.

I just feel like people who need the one bar for accessibility or due to super high ping (making bar swapping unreliable) do not really get to enjoy mythics to their full extent which is a shame because there are some really fun mythics.

Associating high pings as an accessibility issue is an insult to players with actuall accessiblity issues.

Read the entire thread, that is NOT my only reason.

RealLoveBVB · June 8

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

1. Hence why I said close.

A half would be fair. If oakensoul players only use the half possibilities of skills, then they should also awarded with half the damage output.

Sounds harsh, but it's fair. If players parse 150k this patch, then 75k for oakensoul players is still much.
The first godslayers were achieved, when highest parses were around 85k. So I don't understand why oakensoul players urgently want more buffs/damage, if they overperform already.

AlterBlika · June 8

I wish they stopepd treating oakensoul as a mythic so we could use something else alongside. I like soloing hard stuff and sometimes it's a chore to maintain a proper rotation because the incoming damage is so high you can't stay on your backbar for more than 2 GCDs, thus your rotation becomes clunky and you need to constantly swap between bars to apply your dots/buffs/debuffs. Pale order and sithis are just too mandatory, so you can't swap them for oakensoul.

I don't think oakensoul should be close to 2 bars damage-wise. Although I do believe it shouldn't be just for overland roleplaying or something.

Pixiepumpkin · June 8

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

1. Hence why I said close.

A half would be fair. If oakensoul players only use the half possibilities of skills, then they should also awarded with half the damage output.

Sounds harsh, but it's fair. If players parse 150k this patch, then 75k for oakensoul players is still much.
The first godslayers were achieved, when highest parses were around 85k. So I don't understand why oakensoul players urgently want more buffs/damage, if they overperform already.

Asinine. Absolutely asinine to assert that damage output should be based on amount of skills pressed. Even two bar builds vary widly in what needs to be pressed. Arcanist comes to mind.

Secondly, there is ZERO reason except that people get there ego bruised, that one bar oakensoul builds should not be at the LOWEST 80% as good as two bar.

The use of Oakensoul does not mean the player is lazy, which is what you are inferring, which is as I said three times now, asiine.

PeacefulAnarchy · June 8

I wish people in oakensoul threads would be clear about what oakenaoul means to them and what they value ( or in other threads dislike) about it.

there are one bar builds without oakensoul.
there are heavy attack builds without oakensoul
the are oakensoul builds that are not HA
there are HA oakensoul builds.

What exactly are you looking for in a build and why is oakensoul specifically the dealbreaker?

On the one hand it is weird that the one bar and HA mythic is getting further behind the builds for those playstyles that don't use it. On the other hand I don't get the attachment to oakensoul specifically if you want HA or want one bar. It has no visual effect or cool proc. If it's no longer the best for the build you want, then that's just the way sets go in eso. Sure it could use a buff, so could a lot of other sets and mythics.

I say this as someone still using oakensoul on one of my dps (though not for much longer) even as it fell behind. I kept using it because even as better ways of doing what I wanted appeared in the last couple of patches, they weren't so much better that it was worth redoing my build and keeping up potions. Now that even more options have appeared and the gap has gotten wider I'm going to go ahead and swap things around because oakensoul just isnt worth it. I'll probably keep oakensoul and swap it onto unloved alts though, for characters that I don't play much it's still good as a baseline power mythic for a solid accessible build. It's just not the best for any given playstyle anymore.

Renato90085 · June 8

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

1. Hence why I said close.

A half would be fair. If oakensoul players only use the half possibilities of skills, then they should also awarded with half the damage output.

Sounds harsh, but it's fair. If players parse 150k this patch, then 75k for oakensoul players is still much.
The first godslayers were achieved, when highest parses were around 85k. So I don't understand why oakensoul players urgently want more buffs/damage, if they overperform already.

Asinine. Absolutely asinine to assert that damage output should be based on amount of skills pressed. Even two bar builds vary widly in what needs to be pressed. Arcanist comes to mind.

Secondly, there is ZERO reason except that people get there ego bruised, that one bar oakensoul builds should not be at the LOWEST 80% as good as two bar.

The use of Oakensoul does not mean the player is lazy, which is what you are inferring, which is as I said three times now, asiine.

I just want say,if you want join new trial hardmode,Zos make a good aoe ha set will better than buff oaken parse dps..because parse st dps not main problem ,pure arc maybe do 110-125+ but still is bis in u45,in hard thing you need a quick&good aoe choose as competitive

wolfie1.0. · June 8

I have seen effective 1.5 bar builds with subclassing where you either don't swap, only swap for ha resources, or only swap every so often. Its close.

If there were a few more gain x while slotted on either bar skills then it would be there.

Asikoo · June 8

I really don't expect ZoS to make any changes to Oakensoul. Here’s why I believe that:

Oakensoul was 80% of the game’s fun. For many reasons, some players absolutely love this item.
Oakensoul helps players learn and understand the game’s mechanics.
When Oakensoul was released, a lot of players finally had fun with the game.
For some of us, Oakensoul is something we can't even describe, that’s how good this mythic item was.
And because of all this (and more), I believe ZoS will never, ever touch it again. Only because players genuinely love it.

But… Oakensoul just feels like a joke now, especially with all the subclassing changes. My main character was a HA Oakensoul build. I can’t even look at that character anymore. The last time I felt this way was when ZoS changed the Jabs animation. I never went back to that character either.

And this is my true opinion. It’s not bait. It’s not fake news. It’s just how I feel: “We're not allowed to have fun anymore.”
In my opinion... this whole update, all these changes, this mess — it just feels so wrong. The entire game feels wrong now!

There’s absolutely nothing — not a single reason — to keep me in the game. Zero reasons!

I'm trying to play only as a Healer... So far, people haven’t asked me about subclassing on this character. But when they eventually do — and start gatekeeping, just like they did in the past with Oakensoul (and will again, now that Oakensoul is basically 100% trash) — then... there will be absolutely nothing left for me.

It's damn sad.

Dagoth_Rac · June 8

DenverRalphy wrote: »

There are already one bar builds using subclassing to hit 138k. You wanna buff on top of that?

Isn't that one of those dummy cheese builds with Highland Sentinel where you get like a million crit if you never move a muscle, but you might as well not have a 5th piece bonus if you ever move? That's a cheese build for parsing with no relation to actually playing the game and it just muddies the waters and harms the ability to have a reasonable conversation. Highland Sentinel was already doing crazy DPS even before subclassing but no one used that build before subclassing and no one will use it with subclassing. It exists only to put big numbers on build videos/articles for clickbait.

barney2525 · June 8

I'm not understanding this.

Why are passives being put on the back bar? Aren't passives 'always on' ?

I checked the description which says passive buff does not require being slotted on a bar.

what is the OP talking about here?

DenverRalphy · June 8

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

There are already one bar builds using subclassing to hit 138k. You wanna buff on top of that?

Isn't that one of those dummy cheese builds with Highland Sentinel where you get like a million crit if you never move a muscle, but you might as well not have a 5th piece bonus if you ever move? That's a cheese build for parsing with no relation to actually playing the game and it just muddies the waters and harms the ability to have a reasonable conversation. Highland Sentinel was already doing crazy DPS even before subclassing but no one used that build before subclassing and no one will use it with subclassing. It exists only to put big numbers on build videos/articles for clickbait.

Nope. Legitimate builds utilizing subclassing. No gimmicks. No cheese.