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· [IN PROGRESS] NA megaservers for maintenance – February 23, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [IN PROGRESS] EU megaservers for maintenance – February 23, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
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BOTS EVERYWHERE - 9 pm to 6 am Central
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ciannait✭✭✭jason.osage_ESO wrote: »The bot accounts are after all paying subscribers....
With stolen credit card numbers that result in chargebacks for ZOS.![:\](https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
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Mablung✭✭✭✭✭
With stolen credit card numbers that result in chargebacks for ZOS.jason.osage_ESO wrote: »The bot accounts are after all paying subscribers....
If that is the case then their billing department should be seeing influxes of disputed transactions from the actual card holders. There are ways to block CC transactions from taking place even before they occur. Most eCommerce companies have solutions in place to prevent just this type of fraud.
It is not a hard problem to solve.
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ciannait✭✭✭As with most other things with ZOS, though, the legitimate players are getting hit with transaction blockages, and not the bots.0
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BeerWolf✭✭You'd think tackling buyers would be as simple as raising a red flag when suddenly someone's gotten 100+k out from the blue.
Looking at trade logs, where the money came and if it was purely gold traded for nothing...2 -
Mablung✭✭✭✭✭You'd think tackling buyers would be as simple as raising a red flag when suddenly someone's gotten 100+k out from the blue.
Looking at trade logs, where the money came and if it was purely gold traded for nothing...
First, I am not defending the buyers but how does this solve the problem? It still leaves bots doing what they are doing in game. The solution is not to go after the buyers but to go after the source.
Software is available to flag suspect Credit Cards by name, address, number, purchase amount, etc. This would stop a large portion of fraudulent activity at the POS. If they get by your security measures then it is time to seriously re-evaluate the systems in place to stop fraud. I promise you, fraud is going to cost them more in the long term (short term as well) than spending the appropriate amount on having proper security features in place to combat CC fraud and yes botting in game.0 -
jason.osage_ESO wrote: »You'd think tackling buyers would be as simple as raising a red flag when suddenly someone's gotten 100+k out from the blue.
Looking at trade logs, where the money came and if it was purely gold traded for nothing...
First, I am not defending the buyers but how does this solve the problem? It still leaves bots doing what they are doing in game. The solution is not to go after the buyers but to go after the source.
Software is available to flag suspect Credit Cards by name, address, number, purchase amount, etc. This would stop a large portion of fraudulent activity at the POS. If they get by your security measures then it is time to seriously re-evaluate the systems in place to stop fraud. I promise you, fraud is going to cost them more in the long term (short term as well) than spending the appropriate amount on having proper security features in place to combat CC fraud and yes botting in game.
No!
The solution is to flag anyone receiving large sums of money AND to target those providing it. They need GM's in game keeping an eye out for bots and regular system scans to check unusual transactions.
Both sides cause the problem and you cannot remove either side without finding a holistic solution.
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Mablung✭✭✭✭✭lee_mcdonaghb16_ESO wrote: »jason.osage_ESO wrote: »You'd think tackling buyers would be as simple as raising a red flag when suddenly someone's gotten 100+k out from the blue.
Looking at trade logs, where the money came and if it was purely gold traded for nothing...
First, I am not defending the buyers but how does this solve the problem? It still leaves bots doing what they are doing in game. The solution is not to go after the buyers but to go after the source.
Software is available to flag suspect Credit Cards by name, address, number, purchase amount, etc. This would stop a large portion of fraudulent activity at the POS. If they get by your security measures then it is time to seriously re-evaluate the systems in place to stop fraud. I promise you, fraud is going to cost them more in the long term (short term as well) than spending the appropriate amount on having proper security features in place to combat CC fraud and yes botting in game.
No!
The solution is to flag anyone receiving large sums of money AND to target those providing it. They need GM's in game keeping an eye out for bots and regular system scans to check unusual transactions.
Both sides cause the problem and you cannot remove either side without finding a holistic solution.
Well, they will never remove a paying customer base. That just will not happen. It is far easier to remove fraudulent, exploiting users rather than banning accounts that purchase gold through RMT sites.
They want people who are going to spend money. If people are going to spend money at an RMT site, then they will most assuredly spend money repeatedly on your game (resubbing).
The area is too grey for them to actively go after trade transactions that are suspect. It is too difficult to see who the legitimate traders are and are not. Makes no logical sense to spend man power on removing a paying customer base when you can remove the source easier. The source is who you want gone regardless.
It is illogical to remove/penalize gold buyers because the game allows for an economy to be so easily manipulated and broken by these RMT botters. Flood the market with currency and hot items, allowing everyone to obtain what they want in game with ease rather than having to go outside of the game to purchase in game gold from a third party site and then inflate the economy by buying from the RMT sellers with their overpriced items, thus creating a monopoly and a 'need' to go outside of the game for currency.
Removing the source through point of sale systems, GMs responding to and monitoring bots and also flooding the economy (especially one already broken) with the means to obtain what is desired by the real paying customers is, in my opinion, the only solution.Edited by Mablung on May 15, 2014 1:47AM2 -
Wolfborn✭✭✭IMO a extreme option Zenimax needs to do and I admit we are at that level where extreme measures are needed. They need to block the game from all China and Russia locations. Once that full block is completed judge the bot impact. If the problem goes away, great just deal with that hate coming from those countries. If the problem is still here, well close the game for how long you need, fix your code and re launch.
I love this game, paid for a 6 month sub but even I can clearly see something is majorly broken here.2 -
Umbra✭✭✭IMO a extreme option Zenimax needs to do and I admit we are at that level where extreme measures are needed. They need to block the game from all China and Russia locations. Once that full block is completed judge the bot impact. If the problem goes away, great just deal with that hate coming from those countries. If the problem is still here, well close the game for how long you need, fix your code and re launch.
I love this game, paid for a 6 month sub but even I can clearly see something is majorly broken here.
You are really smart. Only Russian bears with balalaika and chinese communists are using bots. In US or Europe there are no griefers, bots, cheaters... ofc not. what stuff!
FYI most scammers use proxy. In my opinion only 'hardware-linked' ban can help.Edited by Umbra on May 15, 2014 4:12AM3 -
Shillen✭✭✭These bots are level 40s and VR ranks. How do they get that far without being banned? You only have to watch them for 2 seconds to see them speed hacking around.Please LOL my comments. I'm an aspiring comedian.0
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Mablung✭✭✭✭✭I've not seen any Veteran Ranked bots. That implies they have completed the story quest line, which seems highly unlikely given the nature of their employment.0
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Shillen✭✭✭jason.osage_ESO wrote: »I've not seen any Veteran Ranked bots. That implies they have completed the story quest line, which seems highly unlikely given the nature of their employment.
No, you can hit VR1 without doing the story quest. Also, there are legit players using these hacks because they can get away with it. They are not all gold sellers.
Edited by Shillen on May 15, 2014 4:32AMPlease LOL my comments. I'm an aspiring comedian.2 -
Mablung✭✭✭✭✭jason.osage_ESO wrote: »I've not seen any Veteran Ranked bots. That implies they have completed the story quest line, which seems highly unlikely given the nature of their employment.
No, you can hit VR1 without doing the story quest. Also, there are legit players using these hacks because they can get away with it. They are not all gold sellers.
I am confused. i know you can hit level 50 and display that you are level 50 but do not actually hit VR1 until you enter the portal opened by pothead in the harbourage? Or so I thought....0 -
Akhratos✭✭✭✭IMO a extreme option Zenimax needs to do and I admit we are at that level where extreme measures are needed. They need to block the game from all China and Russia locations. Once that full block is completed judge the bot impact. If the problem goes away, great just deal with that hate coming from those countries. If the problem is still here, well close the game for how long you need, fix your code and re launch.
I love this game, paid for a 6 month sub but even I can clearly see something is majorly broken here.
You are really smart. Only Russian bears with balalaika and chinese communists are using bots. In US or Europe there are no griefers, bots, cheaters... ofc not. what stuff!
FYI most scammers use proxy. In my opinion only 'hardware-linked' ban can help.
If by hardware-linked ban you mean a MAC address ban thats even more futile than an ip ban. Anyone can spoof a MAC address, and you wont even get an increase in packet loss as you do while using a proxy, so that would hardly affect botters.
Ban more accounts than proffit they make = ZMO win
else
Botters win.0 -
kasain✭✭✭IMO a extreme option Zenimax needs to do and I admit we are at that level where extreme measures are needed. They need to block the game from all China and Russia locations. Once that full block is completed judge the bot impact. If the problem goes away, great just deal with that hate coming from those countries. If the problem is still here, well close the game for how long you need, fix your code and re launch.
I love this game, paid for a 6 month sub but even I can clearly see something is majorly broken here.
No bann IP addresses. When they do this it usually extends to China, Vietnam, Hong Kong, Korea and a few other places. Many oversea workers or military are in these countries and find enjoyment from MMO games. 24 hour GMs is a start. But as an ESL teacher I had headaches playing some MMOs from Korea due to some games doing this and needing a VPN. And there are many others in same boat.
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Leesha✭✭✭If Australia and America were home to those two "occupations" then I would have suggested those instead.
I will agree that the majority of gold farmer bots are from China and Russia but there are far more people in the US and Canada (among other countries) using bot programs than people realize. Most of these people use the bot programs to farm the game currency and then sell it to the gold farmers for a profit. They don't care if they get caught and banned because by the time they are busted they have made a nice profit and start all over with a new account.
While this is not as prevalent as the gold sellers using bots, it is a part of the same problem and is not confined to China and Russia.3 -
Skirmish840✭✭✭Here's a suggestion. How's about someone from Zenimax create a BOT Topic that we can discuss the latest things we've put up with regarding bots. How's about they communicate "in detail" how they are combating the bots, I don't mean the fine details, just, what did you do today to combat the bots post "Daily" until we get back to the point where we only see a couple of bots here and there.
I lack confidence in Zenimax, because there's next to no communication, whether in the game with the Bot_Hammer GM or on the forums. There ain't no feedback. Just forum mods deleting our img's because we're name and shaming BOTS ffs, their bots, not real people, their names should be against the naming convention their so irrelevant and meaningless.
Seriously Zenimax, you need to put some GM's on 24/7 bot duty, banning and tracing their accounts, and they need to be reporting that they just removed X amount of bots from Y area, in game just like they announce that their on to ban bots, why can't they just "ok I finished clearing X dungeon now I'm moving to Y area" interact with us and we'll likely shut up for a bit, give us some responsibility and we'll likely concentrate on the task that we've been given responsibility for. Do nothing and we'll likely continue to spam the forums with another hundred threads about the same thing.
For those who don't agree with me, please consider that I didn't talk for you...5 -
AryaWythers✭✭✭You'd think tackling buyers would be as simple as raising a red flag when suddenly someone's gotten 100+k out from the blue.
Looking at trade logs, where the money came and if it was purely gold traded for nothing...
The fact that these sellers and bots are still around and haven't even decreased in numbers just makes me question the actual fairness of game play out there. They wouldn't be here if they weren't benefiting on the situation and there must be a whole lot of people getting an unfair advantage on the rest of us honest players.
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Wolfborn✭✭✭IMO a extreme option Zenimax needs to do and I admit we are at that level where extreme measures are needed. They need to block the game from all China and Russia locations. Once that full block is completed judge the bot impact. If the problem goes away, great just deal with that hate coming from those countries. If the problem is still here, well close the game for how long you need, fix your code and re launch.
I love this game, paid for a 6 month sub but even I can clearly see something is majorly broken here.
No bann IP addresses. When they do this it usually extends to China, Vietnam, Hong Kong, Korea and a few other places. Many oversea workers or military are in these countries and find enjoyment from MMO games. 24 hour GMs is a start. But as an ESL teacher I had headaches playing some MMOs from Korea due to some games doing this and needing a VPN. And there are many others in same boat.
Oh I agree with you mate, I do. My suggestion of IP block was never racially motivated like a certain loon suggested. IMO Zenimax needs to do something extreme to protect this MMO that all of us enjoy.
Maybe instead of IP region locks they close the game down for as long as they need to enable backend security to resolve this. At this stage, sometimes I see more bots then actual players.0 -
Umbra✭✭✭If by hardware-linked ban you mean a MAC address ban thats even more futile than an ip ban. Anyone can spoof a MAC address, and you wont even get an increase in packet loss as you do while using a proxy, so that would hardly affect botters.
Ban more accounts than proffit they make = ZMO win
else
Botters win.
Zenimax can ban account by the multiple parametres:
- MAC addres
- IP
- HDD (ID, S/N)
- UUID
- Personal Data
And check this parametres when someone creates new account. as I wrote earlier (in other topic) , need something like pokerstars system.Edited by Umbra on May 15, 2014 5:24AM0 -
dragnar12✭✭be happy there are bots that are playing
most of the real peeps playing this game gave up left or killed themselfs
if zenemax banns the bots they will prob loze 90% of there sub base
Edited by dragnar12 on May 15, 2014 5:51AM0 -
reggielee✭✭✭✭saw a whole herd of lvl 25-30s power leveling in rivenspire today. too many pvp pathetic losers are paying these cheats to give them a vet toonMama always said the fastest way to a man's heart is through his chest.1 -
jason.osage_ESO wrote: »I've not seen any Veteran Ranked bots. That implies they have completed the story quest line, which seems highly unlikely given the nature of their employment.
No, you can hit VR1 without doing the story quest. Also, there are legit players using these hacks because they can get away with it. They are not all gold sellers.
/Facepalm ..."legit players using...."
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means..
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KerinKor✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Reaching level 20 doesn't require you to craft one single item.FFXIV did a great job at this, by the time you got to lvl 20, you knew how to craft, and did every basic thing n the game.
However to reach level 20 what it did do was forced you to group to unlock your personal bank and unlock the ability to get mounts. After that you're forced to 'group up' to progress in a Grand Company (the game's equivalent of the Fighters/Mages Guild) as well as unlocking each stage of the main story: in ESO you're forced to solo, in FFXIV you're forced to group, I know which I prefer.
The type of gamer that group-or-die games like FFXIV are targeting aren't the same as those playing games like this.
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KerinKor✭✭✭✭✭
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You're right but ZOS won't ban buyers I guess they can't afford to lose the revenue.Spritehawk wrote: »Everyone is complaining bout bots here and bots there, but no one is complaining bout buyers? Bots wouldnt be around if people didnt purchase their merchandise. Two way street.1 -
Shillen✭✭✭jason.osage_ESO wrote: »jason.osage_ESO wrote: »I've not seen any Veteran Ranked bots. That implies they have completed the story quest line, which seems highly unlikely given the nature of their employment.
No, you can hit VR1 without doing the story quest. Also, there are legit players using these hacks because they can get away with it. They are not all gold sellers.
I am confused. i know you can hit level 50 and display that you are level 50 but do not actually hit VR1 until you enter the portal opened by pothead in the harbourage? Or so I thought....
Nope it will never display level 50. My first char I hit 50 way way before finishing coldharbour and it instantly showed me as VR1. You also can start gaining VP right away.
As to the VR10 guy above, you probably don't even run into bots if you're just playing your VR10 guy. Go to coldharbour now with a level 40s char and do the quests. The bots completely ruin the experience. My first char through coldharbour I thought it was the coolest thing ever and greatly enjoyed my experience there. Now with my next char it was completely miserable with all the bots and hackers everywhere.
Edited by Shillen on May 15, 2014 11:21AMPlease LOL my comments. I'm an aspiring comedian.0 -
Chirru✭✭✭✭jason.osage_ESO wrote: »I could care less about bots, I'd rather they balance PvP, weapon skills etc.
Then this topic is obviously not meant for you. There is a problem with bots in the PvE environments, something you probably know little about in your superior world of PvP, where rainbows and unicorns are abundant.
This topic is obviously pointless, because there is about 50 other threads created about bots. They have been addressed, and they are "working on it". Im V10, and I did everything in the "PvE evironments" The more duplicate posts I see about bots.. the less I seem to care, and think that people just want to complain.
Just wait until the bots turn up in your pink colored V10 world. I can already hear you screaming. Right now I rather wish you would be silent on the topic because, as you say: You do not care.4 -
A GM named BotKicker was standing by a quest NPC in Eastmarch. Literally dozens (hell, maybe hundreds) of level 2 bots were pathing there to turn in. I returned to town around a half hour later. The swarms of bots were still rolling through but the GM was gone.
I then realized that the GM had apparently given up. This was the first time I felt that ZOS was seriously losing the war. Radical changes are needed.
Whatever is currently being done is obviously not working.2
