Is it even worth the time to report gold sellers?

Reverb · May 16

Every day. Every single day, there are people spamming zone chat on PC NA. The messages are always the same. It starts with a link to Kuta, then tells people how to get to their website, and says they have gold and crowns for cheap. Every day.

The only zone I don’t see them in is Cyrodiil.

I report them, but I’m sick of it. It seems I’m far more bothered by it than Zeni. So is it even worth the time to report?

Desiato · May 16

I think so. ZOS will action them and the more pushback there is the better. Plus it's really easy to report.

I know it doesn't seem to make a difference, and I can't prove it does, but logically if the gold sellers have fewer barriers and make more money, the problem will get worse.

MrGarlic · May 16

I assume it works as they keep starting new accounts to spam chat after I have reported them and added to my ignore list.

valenwood_vegan · May 16

I mean, no one can decide what your time is worth... but personally I have better things to do and I don't bother myself with reporting them anymore. There are scams and spam everywhere these days. Tbh, I got to where I just turn off zone chat by default (for other reasons as well lol).

But for what it's worth on PC/NA at least, although the gold selling message stays roughly the same, the account name does seem to change frequently, suggesting to me that maybe zos is banning them but they have a massive supply of burner accounts / they're creating new ones faster than zos can keep up.

sarahthes · May 16

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

I mean, no one can decide what your time is worth... but personally I have better things to do and I don't bother myself with reporting them anymore. There are scams and spam everywhere these days. Tbh, I got to where I just turn off zone chat by default (for other reasons as well lol).

But for what it's worth on PC/NA at least, although the gold selling message stays roughly the same, the account name does seem to change frequently, suggesting to me that maybe zos is banning them but they have a massive supply of burner accounts / they're creating new ones faster than zos can keep up.

Burner accounts cost $1.

Cut off one head and 2 more sprout in its place.

MasterSpatula · May 16

Eleven years ago, ZOS was on the cutting edge of insisting on having an algorithm do a job that requires human judgement, and so we put up with gold-selling spam for months and months before they finally got the algorithm working--and believe me, what we're seeing now is nothing compared to then.

But it's hilariously ironic that the news is full of stories of tech bros planning on having erroneously-named "AI" (really just a complex machine-learning algorithm) eliminate jobs that require human judgement (or, like the arts and design, the human soul) at exactly the time that ZOS's algorithmic solution to a human problem is failing.

*Sigh*

freespirit · May 16

I report them on PC-EU and regularly get emails from ZoS saying action was taken.

It is fairly rare to see the same account two days running but as it is so easy and cheap to buy new accounts I suspect it will always be a never ending battle.

What annoys me more is they must have customers to make it worth their while!! Why do people risk buying from these dodgy websites???

oldbobdude · May 17

freespirit wrote: »

I report them on PC-EU and regularly get emails from ZoS saying action was taken.

It is fairly rare to see the same account two days running but as it is so easy and cheap to buy new accounts I suspect it will always be a never ending battle.

What annoys me more is they must have customers to make it worth their while!! Why do people risk buying from these dodgy websites???

This ^^^. If there were no buyers they’d go away fast.

SilverBride · May 17

I've reported several but I'm getting discouraged.

As others have stated, they would go away if there were no buyers. Maybe those are the ones we should be focusing on.

Is there any reliable way to identify gold buyers?

bmnoble · May 17

I report them then I receive emails from ZOS saying the matter was investigated and appropriate action was taken with the accounts vanishing from my ignore list within a few days.

I make a point to type out their zone chat message or at the very least the part about what website they are directing people too in the optional/additional info section of the the report.

There being banned but so long as the base game is cheap to buy they will just create a fresh account and start the whole game of whack a mole again.

Ilumia · May 17

bmnoble wrote: »

I report them then I receive emails from ZOS saying the matter was investigated and appropriate action was taken with the accounts vanishing from my ignore list within a few days.

I make a point to type out their zone chat message or at the very least the part about what website they are directing people too in the optional/additional info section of the the report.

There being banned but so long as the base game is cheap to buy they will just create a fresh account and start the whole game of whack a mole again.

I use an addon "copy to clipboard", to copy the message into the report. Otherwise it would be much more of a bother.
The addon makes the process take just one minute. Later Zos replies that they have taken action, and the account reported vanishes from my ignore list.
I am on pc-eu though, and it seems like the problem is much smaller than pc-na, so it's easy to understand feeling discouraged when there's lots of gold selling in zonechat in spite of trying to help alleviate the problem with reporting.
But to everyone participating in trying to do something and reporting, thanks, it helps reduce the botting, annoying spam, and some of the mechanisms that make the game worse.

Tandor · May 17

I find the best way of getting rid of them is not to enable zone chat in the first place

!

DenverRalphy · May 17

I'd report a lot more of them if Consoles had a built in method to do so. Well there is an in-game method, but it's the worst implementation imaginable.

If they'd simply add an option to report from the chat window, it'd go a long way. You can block a user from the chat window, but you can't report them. I'm not going to do all the leg-work of screenshotting, sharing that screenshot to a shareable location, jumping on my pc/laptop to import said screenshot, then submit it to ZOS for action to be taken. When all I should have to do is select Report from the chat window, the system already knows to take its own screenshot or even better simply save the chatlog, and submit it directly to whomever handles the reports.

On cosoles the reporting options are really really bad when they don't need to be.

RaikaNA · May 17

bmnoble wrote: »

I report them then I receive emails from ZOS saying the matter was investigated and appropriate action was taken with the accounts vanishing from my ignore list within a few days.

I make a point to type out their zone chat message or at the very least the part about what website they are directing people too in the optional/additional info section of the the report.

There being banned but so long as the base game is cheap to buy they will just create a fresh account and start the whole game of whack a mole again.

The only way to stop gold sellers from creating new characters is for ZOS to fire them as customers.

spartaxoxo · May 17

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I'd report a lot more of them if Consoles had a built in method to do so. Well there is an in-game method, but it's the worst implementation imaginable.

If they'd simply add an option to report from the chat window, it'd go a long way. You can block a user from the chat window, but you can't report them. I'm not going to do all the leg-work of screenshotting, sharing that screenshot to a shareable location, jumping on my pc/laptop to import said screenshot, then submit it to ZOS for action to be taken. When all I should have to do is select Report from the chat window, the system already knows to take its own screenshot or even better simply save the chatlog, and submit it directly to whomever handles the reports.

On cosoles the reporting options are really really bad when they don't need to be.

I completely agree with you about reporting on console. It's frustrating not to be able to just report the offending text. Some users even make difficult to type names specifically to ban evade the reports that do come. But, you can submit the ticket in game by just typing it in alongside the date/time/zone and they can look that way. I've reported gold sellers that were banned that way without a screenshot.

Also, if you want easier access to your screenshots, on PlayStation you can use the PlayStation app. It automatically has access to your last few screenshots. So you don't need to download it onto a laptop. That's how I share screenshots I take on here. Take the shot and then use my phone for the rest. Open PS App download the one I want and then upload it to forums.

DenverRalphy · May 17

spartaxoxo wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I'd report a lot more of them if Consoles had a built in method to do so. Well there is an in-game method, but it's the worst implementation imaginable.

If they'd simply add an option to report from the chat window, it'd go a long way. You can block a user from the chat window, but you can't report them. I'm not going to do all the leg-work of screenshotting, sharing that screenshot to a shareable location, jumping on my pc/laptop to import said screenshot, then submit it to ZOS for action to be taken. When all I should have to do is select Report from the chat window, the system already knows to take its own screenshot or even better simply save the chatlog, and submit it directly to whomever handles the reports.

On cosoles the reporting options are really really bad when they don't need to be.

Also, if you want easier access to your screenshots, on PlayStation you can use the PlayStation app. It automatically has access to your last few screenshots. So you don't need to download it onto a laptop. That's how I share screenshots I take on here. Take the shot and then use my phone for the rest. Open PS App download the one I want and then upload it to forums.

The PS app is great for quick forum posts, if you don't mind the mobile browser version of the forums. That's as simple as can be.

But for submitting screenshots to the ESO support page's reporting system, IMHO it's much less of a headache to just plug the phone into a PC/Laptop after sending the screenshot to the PS app. Especially if you have to attach multiple screenshots. The support page's report system is clunky enough as it is. I have no desire to tackle it from my phone's browser (and I'm a tech nerd).

Heck, what I'd REALLY like, is the ability to submit videos directly to the ESO report system just like you can send video clips directly from console to Youtube. I'm a video clipping fool with the PS5 (good gawd they make it so easy with always having the last 1hr of video at your fingertips).

tincanman · May 17

pc: right-click obfuscated, vowel-deficient name in chat, select report player, select 'cheating scumbag' (or whatever the label is) in both fields, enter 'gold seller' in text box. Done

Usually get email in day or so confirming gold-seller account deletion.

Not sure it does any good - there seems to be a LOT of them on both pc servers lately. Where are the zos guys banning them directly in zone? Where are these AI tools that should be able to pattern-match and flag these chat texts and associated accounts?

@ZOS_Kevin - what IS zos doing, proactively, to stomp this out? Other than relying on your customers' good - but tiring - graces to identify them for you, that is?

jad11mumbler · May 17

Eventually ZoS will get to them.

But they'll be back with new accounts and new methods.

I've been reporting everyone I've seen over the last year at least, and I've noticed how the message has evolved somewhat over that time.
It's a shame they're so prevalent but unfortunately there's plenty of players who gladly support this behaviour.

Ruthless · May 17

the people turning off the zone chat

valenwood_vegan · May 17

Ruthless wrote: »

the people turning off the zone chat

And? It's a video game that I play for entertainment, I'm not here to read nor police a bunch of mindless drivel. I socialize with friends and well-adjusted adults in my guilds.

method__01 · May 17

imo its the same guy who re -appeared last 2-3 months first PC EU with a diff nick-not bothered to check him for more
also no reason to block cause he comes out with diff nicks al time
why these ppl are still in game chat ,selling game items outside game is unknown
also what happens if a new player buy from him and get banned ?cause any newcomer can assume its a legit game transaction

SilverBride · May 17

I don't think even a newcomer would assume this is legal. Every MMO I've ever played has had a rule against gold selling. And the way they disguise the word "gold" (I think they call it "dold" or something similar) is another clue that this is not legit.

The biggest problem are the players that are buying gold. They should be held every bit as accountable as the gold sellers.

ArchMikem · May 18

Even if they ban the accounts, they don't ban the IP Address, or however else it works cause they just come right back with new accounts. And the fact is since they do keep coming back it implies there's an actual market for this, which implies there's plenty of players that are stooping low enough to give shady people on the internet real cash so they can be rich in-game.

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't think even a newcomer would assume this is legal. Every MMO I've ever played has had a rule against gold selling. And the way they disguise the word "gold" (I think they call it "dold" or something similar) is another clue that this is not legit.

The biggest problem are the players that are buying gold. They should be held every bit as accountable as the gold sellers.

They don't even disguise or censor the word. They place spaces and dots between each character.

L . I . K . E . T . H . I . S . C . O . M .

freespirit · May 18

ArchMikem wrote: »

Even if they ban the accounts, they don't ban the IP Address, or however else it works cause they just come right back with new accounts. And the fact is since they do keep coming back it implies there's an actual market for this, which implies there's plenty of players that are stooping low enough to give shady people on the internet real cash so they can be rich in-game.

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't think even a newcomer would assume this is legal. Every MMO I've ever played has had a rule against gold selling. And the way they disguise the word "gold" (I think they call it "dold" or something similar) is another clue that this is not legit.

The biggest problem are the players that are buying gold. They should be held every bit as accountable as the gold sellers.

They don't even disguise or censor the word. They place spaces and dots between each character.

L . I . K . E . T . H . I . S . C . O . M .

@SilverBride is correct until a few days ago the adverts were using the word "dold" instead of "gold" in them, I noticed a couple of nights ago they are back to using "gold" 🙂

Its_MySniff · May 18

I'm normally too busy playing to notice gold sellers. When I see it I move on, it's not hurting me. They seem to move from zone to zone so it's not jamming up chat too bad. I would never entertain the idea of buying gold, carries or anything to cheese the game. So no, not worth the effort.

spartaxoxo · May 18

DenverRalphy wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I'd report a lot more of them if Consoles had a built in method to do so. Well there is an in-game method, but it's the worst implementation imaginable.

If they'd simply add an option to report from the chat window, it'd go a long way. You can block a user from the chat window, but you can't report them. I'm not going to do all the leg-work of screenshotting, sharing that screenshot to a shareable location, jumping on my pc/laptop to import said screenshot, then submit it to ZOS for action to be taken. When all I should have to do is select Report from the chat window, the system already knows to take its own screenshot or even better simply save the chatlog, and submit it directly to whomever handles the reports.

On cosoles the reporting options are really really bad when they don't need to be.

Also, if you want easier access to your screenshots, on PlayStation you can use the PlayStation app. It automatically has access to your last few screenshots. So you don't need to download it onto a laptop. That's how I share screenshots I take on here. Take the shot and then use my phone for the rest. Open PS App download the one I want and then upload it to forums.

The PS app is great for quick forum posts, if you don't mind the mobile browser version of the forums. That's as simple as can be.

But for submitting screenshots to the ESO support page's reporting system, IMHO it's much less of a headache to just plug the phone into a PC/Laptop after sending the screenshot to the PS app. Especially if you have to attach multiple screenshots. The support page's report system is clunky enough as it is. I have no desire to tackle it from my phone's browser (and I'm a tech nerd).

Heck, what I'd REALLY like, is the ability to submit videos directly to the ESO report system just like you can send video clips directly from console to Youtube. I'm a video clipping fool with the PS5 (good gawd they make it so easy with always having the last 1hr of video at your fingertips).

If you reply to your own report email they'll get the screenshot you attach. You can start the ticket in-game using the help button. They'll you an automated email letting you know they received your ticket. I avoid their support page because you're right about it being clunky.

Desiato · May 18

Of course there's an actual market!

This has been happening since at least Everquest in 1999. IMO, it's not possible for it to be eliminated due to human nature and how the global economy functions. It can only be mitigated. In my experience, there is some level of fraud in every human endeavour. It seems to be baked into the broad human experience.

Here's a crazy pseudo-fact. "The BBC reported in 2002 that EQ was the 77th richest country in the world, between Russia and Bulgaria, with a higher GDP per capita than both China and India."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1899420.stm

One of my characters in Everquest wore more expensive clothes than I did! The dude was walking around in something like $2000 worth of gear.

Though it is true that burner accounts are inexpensive, they still needed to be prepped through whatever gold laundering system they have setup. So when a prepared account is banned, it can represent a kind of setback to them. So please report away! No, the problem won't go away, but is can actually get worse.

Jaimeh · May 18

I see them on a daily basis as well OP, and they always advertise the same website. I notice lately they write 'dold' instead of 'gold' probably on purpose, and also link to an item, so the message looks like a WTB/WTS message. I've reported them a bunch of times, but they keep popping up.

SpiritofESO · May 18

My usual practice is to leave HUD Chat Display OFF since the Zone Chat that I see is usually either trivial, or vulgar, or full of sellers, or full of guild spam or gold seller spam.

All of which I have no interest in.

If I thought reporting gold sellers would really do any good, then I would report them. However, I suspect that even if permanently banned they would simply reappear within 24 hours, or less.

MafiaCat115 · May 19

I always report them when I see them in chat. It only takes a minute at most, and I get emails confirming action was taken within an hour or two of reporting them. Those followup emails give nice little hits of dopamine, so I keep doing it.

DreamyLu · May 19

I had done a thread about the very same subject:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/675531/gold-crown-sellers-real-money-is-it-worth-reporting#latest

Since I posted it, it keeps going, non stop, about the same time every day. So, I'm a bit discouraged and to be honest, 2 days ago, I stopped reporting.

For me, the sad point with that, is that if they keep going, it means it's a good business, otherwise, they would stop. So it means that there are enough players who fall for it.