Is it even worth the time to report gold sellers?

SilverBride

I feel a need to report them, but honestly I am getting frustrated spending my play time policing these bad actors.

Veinblood1965

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I'd report a lot more of them if Consoles had a built in method to do so. Well there is an in-game method, but it's the worst implementation imaginable.

If they'd simply add an option to report from the chat window, it'd go a long way. You can block a user from the chat window, but you can't report them. I'm not going to do all the leg-work of screenshotting, sharing that screenshot to a shareable location, jumping on my pc/laptop to import said screenshot, then submit it to ZOS for action to be taken. When all I should have to do is select Report from the chat window, the system already knows to take its own screenshot or even better simply save the chatlog, and submit it directly to whomever handles the reports.

On cosoles the reporting options are really really bad when they don't need to be.

I agree, it almost feels like it is deliberate on Console. You'd almost have to be thinking on "How can we make it so people" cannot report others using the chat interface to even come up with the way you have to go to report someone. Same with bots, I went to a starter zone recently and there are TONS of them and I mean you can see several from any one spot any time of the day.

kurbbie_s

sarahthes wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

I mean, no one can decide what your time is worth... but personally I have better things to do and I don't bother myself with reporting them anymore. There are scams and spam everywhere these days. Tbh, I got to where I just turn off zone chat by default (for other reasons as well lol).

But for what it's worth on PC/NA at least, although the gold selling message stays roughly the same, the account name does seem to change frequently, suggesting to me that maybe zos is banning them but they have a massive supply of burner accounts / they're creating new ones faster than zos can keep up.

Burner accounts cost $1.

Cut off one head and 2 more sprout in its place.

hardware/serial number bans would work, but they would lose money doing that.

Gabriel_H

I think they need to streamline the report system. Just add "Gold Seller" to the list that pops up after clicking Ignore, put it at the top, and make it a 3 click report: 1 click Ignore, 2 click Gold Seller, 3 click Confirm

RealLoveBVB

tincanman wrote: »

pc: right-click obfuscated, vowel-deficient name in chat, select report player, select 'cheating scumbag' (or whatever the label is) in both fields, enter 'gold seller' in text box. Done

I've just saw a gold seller in zone chat yesterday and I remembered your comment.

Did what you said and I've got an answer after 8 hours already, saying they took action.

It works *thumbs up*

freespirit

If I see them I always report them, on PC it takes two minutes if that......

Right click on name

Report Player comes up....

Pick Cheating/exploiting/bad actions

Secondary drop down pick.....

Cheating/exploiting

Press submit!

Pretty much always get two emails from ZoS one confirming report and second confirming action has been taken.

I never see the same account the next day, if enough people do this it will start to put a dent however small into their actions!

Desiato

kurbbie_s wrote: »

hardware/serial number bans would work, but they would lose money doing that.

Hardware fingerprinting is trivial to bypass. It only really hurts legitimate users who later buy the hardware in the used market. It definitely has no impact at all on gold sellers.

JustLovely

Let ZOS take charge of their own enforcement. Better to focus on enjoying the game. Just move on when you see something you don't like....unless it's a threat to another person's well being of course.

SilverBride

Where are they getting the gold to sell? Bots?

Sorcnado

Zos cant take care of gold sellers, but if you say "dummy" in /z chat you will get a ban.. so stupid

freespirit

SilverBride wrote: »

Where are they getting the gold to sell? Bots?

I think these nefarious accounts often have multiple sources of in game currency, likely one of the reasons gifting is now much harder to activate, even on genuine accounts!

SilverBride

freespirit wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Where are they getting the gold to sell? Bots?

I think these nefarious accounts often have multiple sources of in game currency, likely one of the reasons gifting is now much harder to activate, even on genuine accounts!

Ahhh.

Well I stil think there must be something more that can be done.

Desiato

SilverBride wrote: »

freespirit wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Where are they getting the gold to sell? Bots?

I think these nefarious accounts often have multiple sources of in game currency, likely one of the reasons gifting is now much harder to activate, even on genuine accounts!

Ahhh.

Well I stil think there must be something more that can be done.

It's been an issue in every popular MMO since Everquest in 1999 despite the best efforts of the service providers. At the very root of the issue is that personal computers are extremely insecure and the average user exacerbates this issue a 1000 fold through their bad habits and susceptibility to scams.

This results in a persistent black market of personal information, login credentials -- think steam and eso accounts -- and compromised PCs that never goes away.

Believe what you will, but it is a complex issue that is a constant multidimensional cat and mouse game.

allochthons

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Tbh, I got to where I just turn off zone chat by default (for other reasons as well lol).

I so wish this were an option on playstation. Your text chat is either on or off. If you want to see your guild chats, or your whispers, your zone chat is on too.

My not-great solution is I change the color of the zone chat to dark green, so it's really hard to read. It's even harder to read than black in most environments.

(If this isn't true, if someone can tell me how to disable zone chat, please do! Or if it's doable in the up-coming add-ons! Zone chat is so often a cesspool.)

DenverRalphy

SilverBride wrote: »

Where are they getting the gold to sell? Bots?

They gather up the gold collected by players, and sell it back for real life money.

Bots farm the bejeebus out of resource nodes. Those resources get listed on the traders. Players pony up their gold for those resources. Then that gold is sold back to the players.

Orbital78

I turn zone chat off in a tab I barely look at. If it bothers you that much, then I guess that is a question only you can answer. I would say probably not, since they are most likely smart enough to use unassociated burner accounts from Epic.

madman65

Yeah ZOS has dropped the ball on keep the chat clean, i`ve reported alot but it still happens. ZOS states that we help and they will do something but!

Vulkunne

For me, both Zone chat and Guild Chat are off by default and have been secured for several years.

Zone Chat - Prior to the game requiring a sub, we did have some lively conversations, and it seemed like the people in zone wanted to be there, (which made perfect sense considering they were paying a sub fee to be there anyways) however after that, I noticed how the maturity level and the quality of what was being discussed there went down sharply. Different things, mainly rudeness and hatefulness from people towards me without cause for just everyday conversations and now with this AI thing and so on, there is no real value worth the risk to continue having open conversation in zone.

Guild Chat - Stopped this cold a couple years after I stopped Zone chat, but Guild chat also met its demise fairly quickly. Why? Well, it's complicated but it comes down to the fact that there are some immature, spiteful, really corrupt people out there who are looking to try and get you banned not only from the game but lose your Guild membership as well. I had people doing lots of malicious things like reporting my character names, why is that malicious? Well because they did it for the wrong reason, it was yet another act of spite because I disagreed with them. Had others trying to make a fool out of me for just telling jokes, for stating reasons why I liked certain builds. This ultimately became a burden for not just me but Guild staff as well, and so I value my relationship with those who are actually part of the solution over others abusing their 'rights' to speak freely against me in an abusive manner with bad intentions.

PvP Chat - To potentially be turned off permanently soon as well for stated reasons and other things like people mass reporting you in order to get you banned, potential AI shenanigans (if not now probably at some point). This is another one of those things where the golden rule can't be expected to apply to every situation and always, it can't. It doesn't work that way irl and you're being a complete fool thinking it ever will. If something happens then it's just funny how fast every supposed lifeline or option withers, no matter what you convinced yourself to believe was real or not beforehand.

That said, Offline mode can be your friend. Some understand this and others need an explanation.

SilverBride

They use the same script every time so why can't that trigger someone to take a look at them? And maybe not allow user ids like IlllIiiIiil.

Horace-Wimp

Gold sellers are a real world security threat and NEED to be reported. It's a never ending game of 'whack-a-mole' but it needs to be done. Gold sellers phish for victims to hyjack their computers, steal their identities, steal their money, whatever they can.

It only takes ONE click and you're compromised.

Elvenheart

To answer the question in the title, it is ALWAYS worth the time to do the right thing. ALWAYS. So that leaves the question, is it the right thing to report gold sellers? I say yes, definitely, for this reason:

Horace-Wimp wrote: »

Gold sellers are a real world security threat and NEED to be reported. It's a never ending game of 'whack-a-mole' but it needs to be done. Gold sellers phish for victims to hyjack their computers, steal their identities, steal their money, whatever they can.

It only takes ONE click and you're compromised.

RealLoveBVB

Reported one today again and they took action after 4 hours.

Elvenheart

Desiato wrote: »

Of course there's an actual market!

This has been happening since at least Everquest in 1999. IMO, it's not possible for it to be eliminated due to human nature and how the global economy functions. It can only be mitigated. In my experience, there is some level of fraud in every human endeavour. It seems to be baked into the broad human experience.

Here's a crazy pseudo-fact. "The BBC reported in 2002 that EQ was the 77th richest country in the world, between Russia and Bulgaria, with a higher GDP per capita than both China and India."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1899420.stm

One of my characters in Everquest wore more expensive clothes than I did! The dude was walking around in something like $2000 worth of gear.

Though it is true that burner accounts are inexpensive, they still needed to be prepped through whatever gold laundering system they have setup. So when a prepared account is banned, it can represent a kind of setback to them. So please report away! No, the problem won't go away, but is can actually get worse.

I loved that article, it was such a neat snapshot in the history of online gaming…thanks for linking it! ☺️

Elvenheart

DreamyLu wrote: »

I had done a thread about the very same subject:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/675531/gold-crown-sellers-real-money-is-it-worth-reporting#latest

Since I posted it, it keeps going, non stop, about the same time every day. So, I'm a bit discouraged and to be honest, 2 days ago, I stopped reporting.

For me, the sad point with that, is that if they keep going, it means it's a good business, otherwise, they would stop. So it means that there are enough players who fall for it.

I believe that since the gold sellers treat it like a job, it’s hard to gage how successful they may be. They are probably putting ads out in multiple games at the same time, like fishing with multiple poles and just waiting to see where they get a nibble first. 🎣

Elsonso

Desiato wrote: »

It's been an issue in every popular MMO since Everquest in 1999 despite the best efforts of the service providers. At the very root of the issue is that personal computers are extremely insecure and the average user exacerbates this issue a 1000 fold through their bad habits and susceptibility to scams.

...

Believe what you will, but it is a complex issue that is a constant multidimensional cat and mouse game.

Yes. Especially if you remove the "personal computer" angle and include consoles.

I am sure that ZOS takes botting seriously, but I am frustrated.

I am seeing accusations of players being falsely accused of "cheating and exploiting" while a stream of bots run around in the starter zones. It seems to me that ZOS has a focus here and they are distracted.

Reporting them? A lot of these automated bots running around farming are easy to identify. They are practically running around the game with their middle finger extended towards the ZOS ToS team. I imagine that ZOS can find them without assistance.

soelslaev

I understand where sellers get the gold. Not hard to figure out.

I can’t understand the mindset of someone who would be willing to interact with such risky people for such low stakes stuff as video game advantages. But that is a psychological question we can only speculate on and I doubt any gold buyers will drop it this thread and tell us.

But here is my real question. Suppose I did successfully spend US$ for lots of ESO gold. Like, now what? My toon can access 10 million gold in his bank. And? What do I with it that is so advantageous or wonderful? Apparently I buy something with it, but what?

Like, Timbercrow costume for some up-skirt screenshots? Like, seriously, what are they spending this gold on?!

I’ve been going to the Golden Vendor for weeks now and I have not seen a single helm worth buying. I’ll collect it when I collect it.

They can’t be spending it on anything crafting related because that takes time and if they spent the time they wouldn’t need the gold.

So what is going on? What am I missing?

RealLoveBVB

soelslaev wrote: »

I understand where sellers get the gold. Not hard to figure out.

I can’t understand the mindset of someone who would be willing to interact with such risky people for such low stakes stuff as video game advantages. But that is a psychological question we can only speculate on and I doubt any gold buyers will drop it this thread and tell us.

But here is my real question. Suppose I did successfully spend US$ for lots of ESO gold. Like, now what? My toon can access 10 million gold in his bank. And? What do I with it that is so advantageous or wonderful? Apparently I buy something with it, but what?

Like, Timbercrow costume for some up-skirt screenshots? Like, seriously, what are they spending this gold on?!

I’ve been going to the Golden Vendor for weeks now and I have not seen a single helm worth buying. I’ll collect it when I collect it.

They can’t be spending it on anything crafting related because that takes time and if they spent the time they wouldn’t need the gold.

So what is going on? What am I missing?

Housing, guild traders, crown store items (traded for that cheap gold for gifts)...

freespirit

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

soelslaev wrote: »

I understand where sellers get the gold. Not hard to figure out.

I can’t understand the mindset of someone who would be willing to interact with such risky people for such low stakes stuff as video game advantages. But that is a psychological question we can only speculate on and I doubt any gold buyers will drop it this thread and tell us.

But here is my real question. Suppose I did successfully spend US$ for lots of ESO gold. Like, now what? My toon can access 10 million gold in his bank. And? What do I with it that is so advantageous or wonderful? Apparently I buy something with it, but what?

Like, Timbercrow costume for some up-skirt screenshots? Like, seriously, what are they spending this gold on?!

I’ve been going to the Golden Vendor for weeks now and I have not seen a single helm worth buying. I’ll collect it when I collect it.

They can’t be spending it on anything crafting related because that takes time and if they spent the time they wouldn’t need the gold.

So what is going on? What am I missing?

Housing, guild traders, crown store items (traded for that cheap gold for gifts)...

As mentioned above.....

Crown Store items for gold, which cost the buyer very little most likely.

redlink1979

I always see the same website being advertised and that's what ZOS needs to tackle.

Jaimeh wrote: »

(...) I notice lately they write 'dold' instead of 'gold' probably on purpose (...)

Yes, spelling errors are done on purpose due to chat monitorization by bots.

soelslaev

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Housing, guild traders, crown store items (traded for that cheap gold for gifts)...

Whoah, whoa, whoa. Wait a sec. You’re tellin me that folks are using real world fiat currency to buy ESO gold and then use that gold to bid on trader guild locations in order to what…earn gold?! LOL! What is happening here. Your answer, if accurate, indicates — what kind of Möbius strip financial shenanigans are going on here? I feel like someone is trying to explain the subprime-mortgage structured-investment-vehicle crisis of 2007.