They responded so quickly because all they did was return some stats to a passive. Needless to say this is incomparable to a class rework most people demand for necro.sans-culottes wrote: »Very happy that non-pet sorcs received some attention again in 11.0.1, and certainly step forward.
There is still one dead passive, but that is the same as before the changes.
Looking at the currents state , sorcs have ultimately lost 5% max resources and 10% damage on armaments.
Changing shields was OK, but Deadric summoning line needs more love for it to be competitive.
I think this is overall a net nerf, and now that shield heal is removed, unwarranted.
Too bad Necromancers still haven’t received even an acknowledgment from the devs. It’s interesting that they responded to the Sorcerer discourse so quickly while sidelining years of Necromancer players’ feedback.
Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »They responded so quickly because all they did was return some stats to a passive. Needless to say this is incomparable to a class rework most people demand for necro.sans-culottes wrote: »Very happy that non-pet sorcs received some attention again in 11.0.1, and certainly step forward.
There is still one dead passive, but that is the same as before the changes.
Looking at the currents state , sorcs have ultimately lost 5% max resources and 10% damage on armaments.
Changing shields was OK, but Deadric summoning line needs more love for it to be competitive.
I think this is overall a net nerf, and now that shield heal is removed, unwarranted.
Too bad Necromancers still haven’t received even an acknowledgment from the devs. It’s interesting that they responded to the Sorcerer discourse so quickly while sidelining years of Necromancer players’ feedback.
MashmalloMan wrote: »To piggy back off my previous comment about swapping Bound Armor with Rune Prison to make Sorcerer skill lines better balanced in the new subclassing world....
I'd like to further suggest you consider rebalancing how Aedric Spear and Dawn's Wrath are designed for Templar. As it stands, Dawn's Wrath carries 4/5 damage related skills in comparison to Aedric Spear's 2/5 damage related skills, yet Aedric Spear carries most if not all the important damage related passives. This makes it very difficult for a Templar to subclass effectively like Sorcerer.
My suggestion is to swap Piercing Javelin with Solar Flare, Focused Charge with Backlash, and Sun Shield with Radiant Destruction. The results:
Aedric Spear
- Puncturing Strikes
- Solar Flare
- Backlash
- Spear Shards
- Radiant Destruction
Dawn's Wrath:
- Sun Fire
- Piercing Javelin
- Focused Charge
- Eclipse
- Sun Shield
And look, I know this isn't a perfect solution. It's obvious many of these skills have "sun" visual effects, and others have "spear" related effects. To that point, I'd like to highlight the fact that Sun Shield has nothing to do with spears and Power of the Light has a spear appear above the enemies head. I'd argue vfx are the least of our concern 11 years into this game since these classes were originally designed under a completely different architecture and design phylopshy that didn't support hybridization or subclassing. At some point, we need to think about the mechanics of how things operate instead of being stuck with how things look and how a skill line was named, things that could be changed pretty easily to support better game design.
At the very least, swap Sun Shield for Backlash if you disagree. They're already in the wrong lines from a narrow vfx perspective.
Also update "Enduring Rays" passive to actually do something, no one who plays this game finds "+2s duration to class abilities" as a fun, egaging, or interesting bonus. Either build in the 2s to the skills or remove it completely. 2/3 skills last 20/30s, which means adding 2s makes them awkward timers at 22/32s which lines up with absolutely nothing in the game. I guarantee 90%+ players who engage with Sun Fire or Solar Flare morphs in a rotation, cast them early.
Enduring Rays converted to a DPS perspective would be like saying "increase 2 skills total damage by 10% if you refresh the skills 2s late over 20-30s."
To be more specific:
- +1 tick of Reflective Light is +10% DMG
- +1 tick of Vampire's Bane is +6.6% DMG
- +1 tick of Solar Barrage is +9% DMG
Nova it makes a decent difference because they only last 8s, but again, just bake in the +2s without the passive.. in fact, make it +5s because these skills have been underperforming haven't they?
I'm not a Templar main, that's my take.
Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »Bow isn’t considered a projectile by the game btw. So neither shield nor any other similar skill affects it.Turtle_Bot wrote: »SkaraMinoc wrote: »I
From a balance perspective, I don't think subclassing is a good thing while heals like Polar Wind exist.
All you really need now is
- Winter's Embrace for Polar Wind
- Assassination for Damage
- pick any 3rd skill line to fill in gaps in your build (sustain, utility, mitigation, etc)
You will be surprised how powerful charged frost staff la/crushing spam into Merciless is with threads of war and draugrkin.
Maybe stormcalling for mobility and more heals. Or templar for ranged stun and burning light.
This is exactly why I have been theory crafting and working on a reliable tank build for PvP. The double spec bow is going to be stupidly oppressive if it makes it to live, especially being combined with shulks (major + minor breach on an AoE delayed burst) so I'm looking into ways to mitigate that and just be a general pita to those sorts of builds that will be everywhere.
I don't want to get close enough to use Shalks, lol.
On plus side Winter's Embrace which enables chilled status to be impactful also includes projectile protection. Winter's embrace and threads of war makes frost light attacks worse than pre-nerf way of fire or savage werewolf. Assassination line gives you the kill shot and free offensive stats to make it all work.
Toss on winterborn, draugrkin, or dragon's appetite for icing on the cake (warden has ranged bleed or the bleed version of wield soul will trigger Dragon's now).
Before anyone asks I tested all skills both on live and pts a few days ago.
sans-culottes wrote: »sans-culottes wrote: »sans-culottes wrote: »randconfig wrote: »
Can Blighted Blastbones receive this treatment please?
Blighted Blastbones can be:
-CCed after spawning and if the CC is long enough, be completely disabled until the skill becomes available to use again(the game won't allow you to recast the skill if the Skeleton is still ''active'', even if it is stuck in a CC which it can't break), thus ''wasting the skill cast''
-Affected by Silence Ground AoEs(and end up completely disabled until the AoE ends or BB timer runs out), even though it is a ''Stamina Skill'' and even if casted outside the AoE effect. I assume this happens because the Skeleton is treated as an NPC and is Stunned instead of Silenced(BB can't use break free)
-Unable to reach the target under certain conditions like for example if the target teleports to an unreachable location(Sarydil in Coral Aerie), or the target ''phases out''(Darkshard in Bedlam Veil). The main issue with this is that unlike most skills that would simply ''fail'' in this scenario, the Skeleton will just stay there doing nothing until the duration of the skill runs out and most of the time won't attempt to pick a new target.
Changing this skill into a ''visual effect that completes the attack'' similar to something like Scorch from Wardens would imo greatly improve the skill and make its usage in combat scenarios smoother and more reliable. There is no scenario in where this particular skill being a ''summoned entity with AI'' ends up being better than a ''visual effect that completes the attack'' gameplay wise.
I don't like this suggestion; blastbones is a pet and is useful in PvP as a way to intercept enemy attacks, your suggested change would make it not a pet and not block any attacks in PvP.
Calling this a “pet” has always been a bit of a stretch of the term. It lasts for a few seconds. Why even bother?
Your constantly recasting it, and kiting around it absorbing damage, and then 3 seconds later you have another one.
If you have cmx and see your damage output to a necro, you will see like 30 instances of blastbones. It's absorbing damage.
It's actually cheesey when used right.
I think you may have misunderstood the point I was making. I’m not denying that mechanically Blastbones is classified as a pet or that it can serve as a damage sponge. My comment was aimed at how un-petlike the implementation feels in practice—short-lived, uncontrollable, and without persistent presence. That’s quite different from, say, a Sorcerer’s summons or a Warden’s bear, which feel more like actual companions.
In that context, I was questioning the usefulness of calling it a “pet” in terms of player experience and design coherence, not disputing the damage output or interaction with combat metrics.
I mean, in most lore necromancers summon dead Companions to do their bidding. Blastbones is exactly that. They had to do something to make it useful. For a burst ability, I can't really think of any better way of making a necromancer burst ability that keeps the theme of necromancy. The only other thing i can think of is Kjalners skelly hand.
Blastbones definitely fits the theme, and does just fine in my book. Arguably the best delayed burst tools in the game. Shalks is prolly number 1 with blastbones close behind.
The only thing I can sorta agree on, is that blastbones struggles finding a target sometimes. So it can be harder to control sometimes.
But all together, blastbones is s tier in my book for a necromancer pet. Just because it doesn't feel like a pet to you, doesn't mean others think the same.
Id love to revert magbones back to what it was previously tho.
I don’t dispute that Blastbones deals damage or that it technically fits the game’s internal pet classification. But to frame it as the quintessential necromancer ability—or as the most faithful thematic expression of necromancy—strikes me as a bit off the mark.
If we look at broader genre precedents, from EverQuest to Diablo, then necromancy tends to emphasize the persistent manipulation of death: managing summoned undead, feeding off corpses, spreading decay, commanding spectral forces. These systems build a relationship between the caster and their minions, whether as extensions of control, rituals of attrition, or engines of dread.
Blastbones, by contrast, feels like a gimmick. A disposable, short-lived animation that often fails to reach its target. It’s neither persistent nor controllable, and lacks the eerie resonance or symbolic weight that traditionally define the archetype. Mechanically, it’s more of a delayed burst than a companion. Thematically, it’s a skeleton-shaped projectile.
If people enjoy it, then that’s their prerogative. But let’s not pretend that a screaming kamikaze corpse is somehow the Platonic ideal of the necromancer fantasy.
MashmalloMan wrote: »To piggy back off my previous comment about swapping Bound Armor with Rune Prison to make Sorcerer skill lines better balanced in the new subclassing world....
I'd like to further suggest you consider rebalancing how Aedric Spear and Dawn's Wrath are designed for Templar. As it stands, Dawn's Wrath carries 4/5 damage related skills in comparison to Aedric Spear's 2/5 damage related skills, yet Aedric Spear carries most if not all the important damage related passives. This makes it very difficult for a Templar to subclass effectively like Sorcerer.
My suggestion is to swap Piercing Javelin with Solar Flare, Focused Charge with Backlash, and Sun Shield with Radiant Destruction. The results:
Aedric Spear
- Puncturing Strikes
- Solar Flare
- Backlash
- Spear Shards
- Radiant Destruction
Dawn's Wrath:
- Sun Fire
- Piercing Javelin
- Focused Charge
- Eclipse
- Sun Shield
And look, I know this isn't a perfect solution. It's obvious many of these skills have "sun" visual effects, and others have "spear" related effects. To that point, I'd like to highlight the fact that Sun Shield has nothing to do with spears and Power of the Light has a spear appear above the enemies head. I'd argue vfx are the least of our concern 11 years into this game since these classes were originally designed under a completely different architecture and design phylopshy that didn't support hybridization or subclassing. At some point, we need to think about the mechanics of how things operate instead of being stuck with how things look and how a skill line was named, things that could be changed pretty easily to support better game design.
At the very least, swap Sun Shield for Backlash if you disagree. They're already in the wrong lines from a narrow vfx perspective.
Also update "Enduring Rays" passive to actually do something, no one who plays this game finds "+2s duration to class abilities" as a fun, egaging, or interesting bonus. Either build in the 2s to the skills or remove it completely. 2/3 skills last 20/30s, which means adding 2s makes them awkward timers at 22/32s which lines up with absolutely nothing in the game. I guarantee 90%+ players who engage with Sun Fire or Solar Flare morphs in a rotation, cast them early.
Enduring Rays converted to a DPS perspective would be like saying "increase 2 skills total damage by 10% if you refresh the skills 2s late over 20-30s."
To be more specific:
- +1 tick of Reflective Light is +10% DMG
- +1 tick of Vampire's Bane is +6.6% DMG
- +1 tick of Solar Barrage is +9% DMG
Nova it makes a decent difference because they only last 8s, but again, just bake in the +2s without the passive.. in fact, make it +5s because these skills have been underperforming haven't they?
I'm not a Templar main, that's my take.
BretonMage wrote: »I've commented here and there, but just wanted to post my biggest concerns here.
1. I'm extremely worried that pure classes will be left behind in the new system. ZOS nerfing pure classes in view of subclassing is breathtakingly unfair to those of us who might prefer to stay with our 3 class lines.
In addition, a current lack of proper balancing is letting some overpowered skills become even more overpowered with subclassing, which will make it almost mandatory to run the same combination of skill lines if one wanted to contribute meaningfully to group content.
2. I dislike the Arcanist beam immensely. I'm not a sweaty endgamer by any means, and I love both LA weaving (even if I don't weave well) as well as the lightning HA, but the beam feels static and oppressive to me. Please make other class skill lines comparable in damage to a subclassed Herald of the Tome. Give us a real choice.
As mentioned, I'm no endgamer, and I love dabbling in most content, but the combat experience is still important to me. If the devs are expecting average players like me to just slot Fatecarver to be effective DDs, then I will no longer enjoy the combat experience in ESO.
The ardent flame reductions to sustain might be on the high side. DK was already the character I have had the most challenge with sustain on even while leaning into the abilities. Very normal/fun to run a mix of magic and stamina abilities for a stamina dk and the recovery has always been kinda fragile for me.
Don't have an issue with some reduction here but the scale of it 'feels' high.
Context on my setup:
StarOfElyon wrote: »
The following abilities now actively suppress Sneaking and Invisibility from their caster while active:
- Scorch and its morphs
- Bone Goliath and morphs
- Frozen Gate and morphs
- All variants of Banner Bearer
This patch is going to be a disaster.
Casual players are gonna log in, feel how their classes have been entirely ruined, and log out forever.
Absolute disaster for everyone but most hardcore of the hardcore, aka the 3-5% of players who post on these forums.
Whoever thought they could just nerf almost everything across the board for pure classes and still have a player count above 500 a year from now is on some strong stuff that's for sure.
Twohothardware wrote: »Casual players are going to log in and be lucky to notice any difference at all. Casual players don't test their DPS on test dummies and that's the only place you're going to notice a difference.
Twohothardware wrote: »Casual players are going to log in and be lucky to notice any difference at all. Casual players don't test their DPS on test dummies and that's the only place you're going to notice a difference.
I don't think that's true for changes that impact sustain. DPS I agree the average casual player isn't going to notice much, but more frequent need to heavy attack or being at low stam/mag on DK will definitely be felt in gameplay based on what I have experienced on pts.
Twohothardware wrote: »
Outside of maybe DK I don't think anyone is going to notice the rest of the sustain changes and DK is probably the least played class in the game if you're not a tank.