Companions already

Syldras wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Maybe Companions should have radiant/repeatable daily quests to give a reason to interact with each one every day? That's sort of already what we have with the Rapport grind — but this would ideally offer rare dialogue and some "continuation" to the Companion's storyline, since many people seem to want more to do with their Companions.

Take Bastian to the stables and feed him an apple to increase his stamina by 1 pt, a schnitzel to increase his strength by 1 pt, or...

No seriously, I'd actually, from a roleplaying perspective, really appreciate if there would be more - at least a little meaningful -regular interactions with our companions (but optional, of course) . So far we have their companion quest line, but once that's done, there's never anything new; in case of Bastian and Mirri for 4 years now. More quests, even small ones, could (if well-written) help characterizing them more, getting to know them even better.

I'd hope they would not introduce these quests by having a questmarker appearing above them, though. Because then you would be "pressured" to do them, since having a questmarker in sight all the time is rather distracting.

I really wish we could turn off the quest markers for just the companions for our alts if we’ve already done the quest on a character. I don’t mean for the quest to go away, just not be indicated by a quest marker so I can do it whenever I want without having to be reminded by the quest marker whenever I summon one.

Ember refuses to be treated like a Dunmer slave. She will probably cut my head off if I even mention it.

SilverBride wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

Didn't Rich say that there was a huge Companion rework coming at some point?

Yes, he said that ZOS has plans on making more of the companion system, including adding content to old companions, and, in the long term, also optional romance.

If they do add romance they need to create some physically appealing options because right now Azandar is the only one, and his personality is not really suited for romance in my opinion. Although my Arcanist character who studies under him does enjoy his company on occasion.

Ember says she won't stand for any of that malarkey.

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Also, might as well allow them to subclass and be able to scribe skills for them too.

I'm not sure about allowing Scribing for Companions anymore. After Tanlorin released, I got the picture ZOS was going for — future Companions will just come with different baked in Class skills.

The other 7 Companions are mentioned by name in the Subclassing quest as examples of their Class — so unless we get an 8th Class with a new Companion of that Class (like with Arcanist and Azandar) then we should expect no other Companions to be "pureclassing", and instead they'll all be "subclassing" like Tanlorin.

In other words, we probably won't get to pick their skills by means of "Companion Scribing" or "Companion Subclassing", because future Companions will likely come with unique combinations of skills that fit their character. After all, Tanlorin is "subclassing" into Soul Magic because of how impactful it is to their character and storyline — it's not "just because".

More fun it you ignore their quests you get stuff like this

Ember, JhaKa is not in Marburk he is standing behind you and we talked to him 5 seconds ago.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Here's what the Subclassing quest character has to say about each Companion as it relates to their Class:

Thanks. Did the character you got these dialogue parts on have all companions unlocked? I'm wondering if dialogue would be different (like just omitting some names) if you have not. Otherwise it wouldn't make any sense to randomly refer to some person you aren't supposed to know (and I bet for new players who don't know each and every companion this might also be slightly strange).

In any way, it somehow sounds very artificial and constructed that subclassing-npc-person knows all companions, who are individuals from very different backgrounds and from the whole continent, who have no common ground (except for, maybe, meeting the player character at some point), and who aren't all celebrities of some sort (maybe Azandar would be someone people have heard of, as he's supposed to have published some scholarly works, but for most, it makes no sense).

Also, Mirri isn't exactly known for being some sinister assassin type, I wouldn't even call her a mercenary (it implies something different than "treasure hunter" or something like that). I don't want to sound harsh, but it sounds like the person who wrote that did not know the mentioned characters. This is truly disappointing.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Oh, so I guess our companions become famous adventuring by our side. Makes sense but I never thought about it because they're not acknowledged in quests usually

This would be the only interpretation that makes sense, more or less (I still think Mirri's description doesn't fit, and it's also weird we never hear any of it and the companions aren't mentioning it either), but it doesn't fit the way many people are playing the game. I often take a companion with me while questing, yes, but I know many people who only do the companion questlines and other than that run dolmens or archive to level them, but never quest with them. Or some people only summon them for archive or group dungeons.

Let alone many people might not have even finished the companion questlines yet, so Isobel, for example, is just a young knight at this point, and Ember has never left Master Irin's tower.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Mirri was originally described as a "stab ya in the back kind of gal" or something along those lines. She doesn't come across that way at all but I'm not all that surprised to see that description given she's a night blade.

But how would any npc know if she never behaves like that? It's not like she has "nightblade" stamped on her forehead.

I think it's generally a problem to make up things about characters we might have with us most of the time, because it might just not seem believable depending on our playstyle. I wouldn't have any doubts if some npc told me that King Jorunn fathered another 2 children in the past 10 years, or Neramo had been travelling to Murkmire last summer, or that Beragon opened a bookstore in Skingrad for a while, but decided to close it again - that's all possible, we have no close contact to them, we can't know what they did. But if someone told me the same things about Azandar, I'd very much doubt that, because he had been by my main's side more or less permanently since they first met.

As I said, the "celebrity" status wouldn't even be a problem with Azandar, since he's a known scholar, but let's say I just started Ember's questline, or had spent 50% of the time since the completion of Bastian's quest just being in the Archive with him, and the other 50% picking flowers or talking to the house guest version of him - how would they have become famous? It might clash completely with what we've experienced with them and therefore with the image we have gotten of them.

Also, I, personally, find it a bit boring to imagine them all as having been become famous people. Maybe I'd prefer to see Isobel as just a young knight leaving home for the first time, someone who still learns and has no status in Tamriel yet? It somehow seems less diverse to say they're all well-known heroes now.

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Yes! With a willowy build!
If they ever made a "create your own companion" system, I'd be amused to see what each of us would come up with. We all describe him the same way, but I've always wondered if the mental image each of us has aligns.

I'd really be curious. My sense of beauty usually deviates a little bit from what's common. To put it short: Mine would probably, in comparison, look a tad underweight, and a bit more sombre (and maybe a little sleep-deprived) My ideal image, that this - I can live with compromises. If they'd give us an Altmer companion now, I could live very well with him being a bit, let's say, more muscular than my ideal concept would be. No problem. Just give us a scholarly male Altmer Oh, and not a bald one, of course.

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

When I was on the test server, I was using a template character who had no companions unlocked and he still got the dialogue. It felt really out of place, especially since I was on my alternate PC/NA account, and actually don't even have some of these companions unlocked on that one. If my characters have no idea who those companions are, why would Bahtra?
Mentioning the companions felt really...shall we say, shallow. Some people love it, but I actually saw no reason for them to be mentioned in the quest line at all.

It seems like fan service to throw the names in - which is certainly something some people will like, but if it's that shallow, for me it leaves more of a negative impression.

Also I don't like the tendency to assign status to people to emphasize them as being interesting or important. Does that make sense? I just don't think characters need to be famous or heroes; in fact, to me personally, other types are much more interesting. So there's no need to put the companions on a pedestral in any way to make them likeable to me.

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

So many of the companions are depicted as being rather sheltered before they start their adventures with us, so mentioning them feels like she's breaking the 4th wall for the sake of over-explaining to the player themselves.

Yes, I see that too. I understand that, since it's a game, there are factors where "in-world realism" might have to be broken - but I think in this case it's an unneccessary breach. The explanations would work well without including the companion names.

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

If they do add romance they need to create some physically appealing options because right now Azandar is the only one, and his personality is not really suited for romance in my opinion. Although my Arcanist character who studies under him does enjoy his company on occasion.

I can actually imagine character types that I could see being in a relationship with Azandar. But it's very specific.

Of course that doesn't change a thing about the fact that we still need a (what was it? JemadarofCaerSalis @ArchangelIsraphel ) young handsome male long-haired Altmer or Dunmer scholar.

Yes! With a willowy build!

If they ever made a "create your own companion" system, I'd be amused to see what each of us would come up with. We all describe him the same way, but I've always wondered if the mental image each of us has aligns.

Syldras wrote: »

Thanks. Did the character you got these dialogue parts on have all companions unlocked? I'm wondering if dialogue would be different (like just omitting some names) if you have not. Otherwise it wouldn't make any sense to randomly refer to some person you aren't supposed to know (and I bet for new players who don't know each and every companion this might also be slightly strange).

In any way, it somehow sounds very artificial and constructed that subclassing-npc-person knows all companions, who are individuals from very different backgrounds and from the whole continent, who have no common ground (except for, maybe, meeting the player character at some point), and who aren't all celebrities of some sort (maybe Azandar would be someone people have heard of, as he's supposed to have published some scholarly works, but for most, it makes no sense).

Also, Mirri isn't exactly known for being some sinister assassin type, I wouldn't even call her a mercenary (it implies something different than "treasure hunter" or something like that). I don't want to sound harsh, but it sounds like the person who wrote that did not know the mentioned characters. This is truly disappointing.

When I was on the test server, I was using a template character who had no companions unlocked and he still got the dialogue. It felt really out of place, especially since I was on my alternate PC/NA account, and actually don't even have some of these companions unlocked on that one. If my characters have no idea who those companions are, why would Bahtra?

Mentioning the companions felt really...shall we say, shallow. Some people love it, but I actually saw no reason for them to be mentioned in the quest line at all. For one thing, some of their skills don't even align with those of the playable classes, so a new player might be mislead. For another, if I've only just met one of the Companions yesterday, why would some lady standing under a bridge know who they are, as if they're famous? So many of the companions are depicted as being rather sheltered before they start their adventures with us, so mentioning them feels like she's breaking the 4th wall for the sake of over-explaining to the player themselves.

Overall, the quest leading into subclassing is really short and disappointing. They're handing you more power with it than they did with scribing, and yet you're just talking for two seconds under a bridge to someone who'se like "Hey, kid, wanna buy some skills? It'll cost ya two skill points for the good stuff." (Ok, that's not what she said, but the location on AD side made it feel that way XD)

The whole thing just felt so anticlimactic. It didn't feel like the writer had played the game, and the quest was just an arbitrary path to unlocking the system.

Cleanshaven! Don't forget that!

I would also be interesting to see what we each would come up with


Yeah, it does sound like they sort of dropped the ball on the companions and subclassing bit. It would have made a lot more sense to use a 'famous' person that pretty much everyone would or should have heard of (even if you haven't quite met them yet).

Or just not have something like that. Just remove all traces of 'like the XX Person', because, if you have your companion set up differently, then your views of that class might be different from what the description is.

If they *really* needed to have an example person, perhaps they could have set up an 'arena' type area, where you could take a new temp companion to test out each of the classes?

IE, if you want to learn more about nightblade, you would take a new temporary nightblade companion (they could even do something where it is a fabricant/factorium, or something like that, so they didn't have to give them unique personalities) that would be max level and you could assign skills and go into a three fight match. One against small fry type foes, one against maybe a group of said foes, and one against a harder opponent.

Syldras wrote: »

I'd really be curious. My sense of beauty usually deviates a little bit from what's common. To put it short: Mine would probably, in comparison, look a tad underweight, and a bit more sombre (and maybe a little sleep-deprived)

Even if that description isn't the mental image I had in my own mind, I actually like it a lot because it tells you things about who he is at a glance. That maybe he values his studies more than he does sleep, and that he may very well be forgetting to eat if he's really absorbed in something. I can see myself getting along with a companion like that.

I tend to visualize my version as having a little bit of arrogance- maybe a slight haughty tilt of the head, the sort to look down his nose at you when he's in a certain mood (but not all the time). Handsome, aquiline features, thin, but lightly muscled. Pale, with long, dark hair, for preference. Intense gold eyes. I'd actually like him to have a scar or two in a few places to imply that he's gotten into more than he could handle a few times trying to research something. (And cleanshaven!! Thank you Jemadar! )

I still haven't let go of that idea I had of an Altmer who gets kicked out of Summerset for participating in taboo studies, and has a shadow of his kin's haughtiness. (Though I maintain that I don't want him to be an insufferable stereotype.)

Syldras wrote: »

Also I don't like the tendency to assign status to people to emphasize them as being interesting or important. Does that make sense? I just don't think characters need to be famous or heroes; in fact, to me personally, other types are much more interesting. So there's no need to put the companions on a pedestral in any way to make them likeable to me.

That makes perfect sense. It's exactly what disappointed me, because it tries to dictate the player's "head canon" about the companion for them. I never saw the companions as famous, but instead as people just living their lives and striving for their own goals. Goals that happened to send them stumbling into the player character's path. That's really their charm. They didn't ask to be thrown into the middle of multiple world-ending crisis, but there they are, doing what they can along side you.

Making them famous before the player character even meets them sort of robs the player of the chance to have them become important on a personal level, based on the companion's own merits and personality. For example, hearing of Mirri before I even meet her, and being told she's a famous example of her class, just makes me wonder why she can't handle her situation herself when I run into her. It makes me wonder why she'd need me, or give my character the time of day if I were new. Honestly, it even sells her short, because it makes her seem inept at the skills everyone is singing praises of.

She also doesn't show recognition for an established player character (who has arguably done more to save the world than she has) yet I'm hearing about her before I meet her now. Not that I want her to treat the player character as famous, I don't. But it's just a weird inconsistency that throws the plot off.

It's a lot different from stumbling on her in blackwood, finding out she's bitten off more than she can chew, and choosing to fight at her side. Going from being unknown to each other, to then building up a friendship with her based on trust and the adventures we've gone on together, rather than status, has a whole different feel.

Maybe I'm making a big hairy deal out of one line of dialogue, but it's the little things, you know? >.>;

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I can see myself getting along with a companion like that.

Yes, my main doesn't eat or sleep much either - and he'll happily willingly share his stale bread and flavorless paste with him

I don't even think that would necessarily contradict being arrogant. He could look down at others specifically because he thinks of them as less knowledgeable or less ambitious. He could even be disgusted by their focus in life on mundane and corporal aspects. He could silently be amused about their lack or perspective and understanding of existence as a whole - from his point of view. That would probably be considered an "evil" character by some, although I don't think of it as being evil in the actual sense. Maybe he'd be morally grey when it comes to making decisions - but maybe not even that. Just as an example - I don't think he absolutely has to be like that; but arrogance can absolutely be possible even if a character might not be physically powerful or have a huge social stance.

As for scars: I'm a bit indifferent to that, but yes, it would function as a way to show that he does do research in the field and doesn't just sit in his study. I wouldn't see it as a sign that he overestimated himself, though. It's just natural that when you're outside exploring, you'll catch a few scars over time. Nobody can be completely attentive all the time (especially when lacking sleep).

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I am amused that it is being argued that companions shouldn’t be forced to do work for our characters but can be forced to romance them, lol.

Who talks about forcing them?

Romance could be something the player has to earn, similar to rapport.

Syldras wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I can see myself getting along with a companion like that.

Yes, my main doesn't eat or sleep much either - and he'll happily willingly share his stale bread and flavorless paste with him

I don't even think that would necessarily contradict being arrogant. He could look down at others specifically because he thinks of them as less knowledgeable or less ambitious. He could even be disgusted by their focus in life on mundane and corporal aspects. He could silently be amused about their lack or perspective and understanding of existence as a whole - from his point of view. That would probably be considered an "evil" character by some, although I don't think of it as being evil in the actual sense. Maybe he'd be morally grey when it comes to making decisions - but maybe not even that. Just as an example - I don't think he absolutely has to be like that; but arrogance can absolutely be possible even if a character might not be physically powerful or have a huge social stance.

As for scars: I'm a bit indifferent to that, but yes, it would function as a way to show that he does do research in the field and doesn't just sit in his study. I wouldn't see it as a sign that he overestimated himself, though. It's just natural that when you're outside exploring, you'll catch a few scars over time. Nobody can be completely attentive all the time (especially when lacking sleep).

For me, it would really depend on how the arrogance was portrayed. Something like the above could be fine, but I would be afraid they would go overboard with it. Arrogance is one of the traits that often gets on my nerves (I hate it when Tanlorin goes 'about that potion... nevermind I will give you notes later' or something. Like, okay, this is a simple potion for some idiot who can't even tell two flowers apart, I don't NEED notes on how to improve it. I am a master Alchemist. But the way they say it just makes me want to immediately punt them into a box, which I usually do, since I only have them out for the rapport boost from turning in writs :P)

So it would definitely depend :P

Now a bit undernourished and sleep deprived? I can get behind that. I can definitely empathize with the sleep deprived part, though sadly, not for the same reasons...

I don't mind scars. I have scars and I am not an adventurer! so it is definitely possible to have scars (bonus points of the scars are because the scholar likes cats and have scars from them, which is where most of mine come from . Why not, we have someone who likes dogs! I want an Altmer Scholar who loves cats!) without being big on adventure.