Pelanora wrote: »

She threatened Moras world of secretive control and micro managing everyone's destiny, with freedom and 'the road not taken' so he ended her. With zero evidence for us she was even a threat.

I know Mora is sexless squid, but voiced to sound male- it just smacked of misogynistic bollicks to me, like some church tale against women they call witches just so they can destroy them, and I couldn't even finish the story.

Tbh i dont think things would have got as bad as they did if we didnt get involved. She only lost it cause the loom broke and I feel like Mora wouldve foreseen our involvement causing that event so it just feels heavily manipulative on Mora’s part

Pelanora wrote: »

I've never hated anything in eso like I hated Mora and that story.

Hoarding knowledge and secrets, destroying women who stood for freedom from destiny..... awful. What point was zos even trying to make.

so trus

I don't remember all the details of the quest, but I think it was because of the world destruction that happened in the parallel realities that the Vestige visited, so they decided it would be inevitable to happen in that reality at some point as well, or at least something along those lines. In all honestly, I didn't like how they implemented the concept of such a daedric price without speculating in the story on the already existing concepts of entities such as Satakal, and generally how she fits into the concept of the reality cycling in TES, assuming her powers as a prince extend far beyond the Mundus. I don't think it was very well done, for all the implications her presence had, the story was resolved far too easily and fast, [snip] It was a bad idea to create new lore with such momentous consequences, they could have went with a less far reaching concept and a more compelling story. It honestly reminded me of action movies that laud the villain and their powers, build up to the climate so much, but then the story fizzes out and you forget it the minute you exit the theatre.

[edited for bashing]

I began the story line very late, I think when Gold Road launched, I concentrated on doing incursions and the various bosses, then left it to concentrate on other chapters, some PvP and dipped my toes into another game. I returned recently to complete, side stories and then the main GR storyline. I've been part of the TESO community since 2014, and have never felt so interested and connected to this character Ithelia. I can't say too much for fear of spoliing the story for others. I would follow her without question, for better or worse. I would love to discover her again be my road be untravelled, less travelled, tragic or fortunate.So intrigued did I become about 'She Who Saw and Wept', I even asked Gemini AI about her story and was very satisfied with the answers it gave me. I so want to find her again.

ArchMikem wrote: »

Even though I think Mora can shove it, i will say, Ithelia's very existence was an existential threat. She had the power to tear the fabric of Reality apart if she simply was angry enough. We the player even witness this in one of the Timelines. That Ithelia's Torvesard was even like "Bro, you really need to get your item and leave or you'll cease to exist." A Dremora showing regard for a Mortal's life before his own world and existence comes to an end.

I also think bringing Sexism and Patriarchal Oppression into it isn't necessary.

All of this, also, Mora’s never been a great guy. He’s perfectly happy to kill off one of his own followers just to complete his collection of mortal race souls, and for those of you who haven’t played the Dragonborn DLC for Skyrim he kills someone for giving him the information he’d specifically wanted. This isn’t new behavior for him.

Pelanora wrote: »

She threatened Moras world of secretive control and micro managing everyone's destiny, with freedom and 'the road not taken' so he ended her. With zero evidence for us she was even a threat.

I mean, we did see her destroy other worlds...

Ithellia, while in Mirrormoor, her daedric realm, and using the loom of the untravelled road can give everyone their own version of reality which suits their desires. This is the ultimate form of freedom from destiny. Mora wouldn't have liked that at all as it means everyone has the freedom to control their version of the universe. Apparently her powers were not without consequence as it could cause complications such as fate knots. She was called the Last Tomorrow because others feared her ability to cause reality tears and bring about the end.

To be fair, I had fun the first half in Necrom and then Gold Road just didn't do it for me. Most of my fun at thqt point came from doing side-quests and recognising places from Oblivion, which should not be bigger than the main story... But I don't think there where any misogynistic undertones or anything. The story was just not good/badly executed, sometimes it's as simple as that.

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

and for those of you who haven’t played the Dragonborn DLC for Skyrim he kills someone for giving him the information he’d specifically wanted.

I've always been a bit interested by this, because I think there is more to this. Before Mora kills him the said guy says "You... liar... gah! ... I won't... not... for you...", which makes it sound like there was more of a deal between Mora and him than "I get knowledge and Dragonborn get's power to safe your ass", and he therein was lied to (or felt that way at least) causing him to no longer cooperate which resulted in Mora killing him, rather than just killing him while getting what he wants.

There must have been some conversation between the two we never get to witness. It's also unusual for Mora to blatantly lie. He's a jerk, and he's manipulating saying things that makes them sound maybe not the way you'd expect them to play out, and at times he leaves important details out in name of manipulation as well, but generally he does keep his word, as least technically so. So I'm quite interested in finding out what that was about. I don't think we'd ever know.

I personally find the killing of Sigmus (Skyrim's Mora daedric quests for the Ogma Infinium) more odd. Like, the guy figures it out so far, and Mora might have know he won't gain more knowledge. But why does he need to die? Why can't he retire in peace? Or is his "killing" more so sending them to live in the endless library? In which case, is that maybe the issue the Skaal guy from the Dragonborn DLC had? Being put on a shelve there, so to say, instead of being able to go on with his life afterwards?

Anyhow, yes Mora is not to be trusted, nor should any Daedric prince for that matter. But Mora is more sneaky and manipulating than most (or "subtle" as Neloth called it), for better or worse.

LootAllTheStuff wrote: »

It baffles me how many willing mortals there are throughout Apocrypha. Maybe not quite as nonsensical as worshipping some of the others (Mephala, Boethia, etc.) but not exactly a smart move.

He's also the only way of getting certain knowledge, and actively uses that to gain more followers, which makes it kinda make sense he has so many followers (as Netloth in Skyrim also mentions: "Hermaeus Mora has always tried to seduce mortals into his service with the lure of forbidden knowledge.", "Many scholars and loremasters have been ensnared by the lure of learning the secrets that only Hermaeus Mora possesses."). The story of how Ysgramor almost turned into an elf due to him also shows how tricky he can be, not always letting you know who you're dealing with, although I have no clue what Mora would gain from that other than *** and giggles.

Mora also mentions somewhere in Skyrim that even if you're unwilling, (if you search for knowledge) you still serve him (which is kinda how it works for all Daedric Princes and there respective spheres). Looking to read Elder Scrolls to find out how to stop the dragons from ending the world? Now you're serving Mora. Looking for those Xarxes annotation books in Oblivion because you need to learn it's contents? Serving Mora. Even normal things growing up like learning to speak, learning about your own culture and norms, etc? You're gaining knowledge, so you're serving Mora, be it probably in a much more minor way. Pretty much anything you want to achieve, requires you to search and find knowledge. I guess getting into a downwards spiral of this, wanting to know more, even if purely for good, is kinda easy to do without seeing how bad you've become, which doesn't help. Makes you wonder how many followers would follow Mora from the start, and how many accidentally rolled into it slowly but would've called the idea crazy and dumb years before.

Makes you curious if Netloth kept his words when he said "But don't worry. I have no intention of joining them in their endless search through the infinite halls of Apocrypha", as he's been quite active finding all forbidden knowledge of Mora despite no doubt being smart enough to know that does serve Mora in a way. Maybe we find out int TESVI.