Is Ithelia just a Tragic character?

Libonotus

Now that gold road has been out for a while. The story kind if felt like Ithelia was being punished for something that hadn’t happened yet and that punishment led to her becoming evil for a brief second and she only becomes evil because various things pushed her into becoming evil, such as Mora. Her anger ablut being erased was justified. However, no one apart from Ithelia actually learned their lesson. Although Ithelia does not feel like much of a threat (mainly cause of the writing) and only came across as a threat to Mora because she threatened Mora’s ability to be certain about the future, she accepts that she cannot exist within that reality with her powers. Although there is no real reason why she had to disappear and not just learn to control her powers or have some sort of restriction placed on her other than imprisonment. I feel overall she is a tragic character.

SilverBride

I felt bad for her watching the end of that story play out. I just couldn't see her as all bad.

Pelanora

She threatened Moras world of secretive control and micro managing everyone's destiny, with freedom and 'the road not taken' so he ended her. With zero evidence for us she was even a threat.

I know Mora is sexless squid, but voiced to sound male- it just smacked of misogynistic bollicks to me, like some church tale against women they call witches just so they can destroy them, and I couldn't even finish the story.

Libonotus

SilverBride wrote: »

I felt bad for her watching the end of that story play out. I just couldn't see her as all bad.

Yeah I never saw her as bad like she was being punished for something that hadn’t happened and Mora and everyone was pushing for it to happen until it did and then were “we didnt do it”. The only one who learned a lesson was Ithelia

Libonotus

Pelanora wrote: »

She threatened Moras world of secretive control and micro managing everyone's destiny, with freedom and 'the road not taken' so he ended her. With zero evidence for us she was even a threat.

I know Mora is sexless squid, but voiced to sound male- it just smacked of misogynistic bollicks to me, like some church tale against women they call witches just so they can destroy them, and I couldn't even finish the story.

Tbh i dont think things would have got as bad as they did if we didnt get involved. She only lost it cause the loom broke and I feel like Mora wouldve foreseen our involvement causing that event so it just feels heavily manipulative on Mora’s part

Pelanora

I've never hated anything in eso like I hated Mora and that story.

Hoarding knowledge and secrets, destroying women who stood for freedom from destiny..... awful. What point was zos even trying to make.

Libonotus

Pelanora wrote: »

I've never hated anything in eso like I hated Mora and that story.

Hoarding knowledge and secrets, destroying women who stood for freedom from destiny..... awful. What point was zos even trying to make.

so trus

ArchMikem

Pelanora wrote: »

I've never hated anything in eso like I hated Mora and that story.

Hoarding knowledge and secrets, destroying women who stood for freedom from destiny..... awful. What point was zos even trying to make.

Even though I think Mora can shove it, i will say, Ithelia's very existence was an existential threat. She had the power to tear the fabric of Reality apart if she simply was angry enough. We the player even witness this in one of the Timelines. That Ithelia's Torvesard was even like "Bro, you really need to get your item and leave or you'll cease to exist." A Dremora showing regard for a Mortal's life before his own world and existence comes to an end.

I also think bringing Sexism and Patriarchal Oppression into it isn't necessary.

Pelanora

ArchMikem wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

I've never hated anything in eso like I hated Mora and that story.

Hoarding knowledge and secrets, destroying women who stood for freedom from destiny..... awful. What point was zos even trying to make.

Even though I think Mora can shove it, i will say, Ithelia's very existence was an existential threat. She had the power to tear the fabric of Reality apart if she simply was angry enough. We the player even witness this in one of the Timelines. That Ithelia's Torvesard was even like "Bro, you really need to get your item and leave or you'll cease to exist." A Dremora showing regard for a Mortal's life before his own world and existence comes to an end.

I also think bringing Sexism and Patriarchal Oppression into it isn't necessary.

So he said. But we didn't know that for sure. She only grew dangerous when she was angry, as all Princes might. He was afraid of her potential to affect his power over us, and she gave people freedom from his destiny.

Smacks of the worst of things, to me.

colossalvoids

Still puzzled why through the whole story we were a passive observer, never actually trying to stop the daedra until the world is literally falling apart. It's hard to judge anything having zero player agency and trying to see what zos wanted to say with this and rewire what a daedric princes in essence are for a one chapter ride, so we feel sympathy for it by default. A conflict of what story is showing us and what's tes lore about it was all the time before, so if you're not really concerning yourself with in-game world and just here for the feels it's probably a tragic character indeed, especially if you're treating them as a regular person.

Jaimeh

I don't remember all the details of the quest, but I think it was because of the world destruction that happened in the parallel realities that the Vestige visited, so they decided it would be inevitable to happen in that reality at some point as well, or at least something along those lines. In all honestly, I didn't like how they implemented the concept of such a daedric price without speculating in the story on the already existing concepts of entities such as Satakal, and generally how she fits into the concept of the reality cycling in TES, assuming her powers as a prince extend far beyond the Mundus. I don't think it was very well done, for all the implications her presence had, the story was resolved far too easily and fast, [snip] It was a bad idea to create new lore with such momentous consequences, they could have went with a less far reaching concept and a more compelling story. It honestly reminded me of action movies that laud the villain and their powers, build up to the climate so much, but then the story fizzes out and you forget it the minute you exit the theatre.

[edited for bashing]

remdesilvir

This whole history made me wonder, mora has the the power to erase something from everyone's memory, so basically he decides who remembers what, wasn't HIM a way bigger threat to the other daedric princes? (Since they care way more about themselves than the reality) I mean others were punished for way less, that dude became sheogorath and triminac. I simply hate hermaeus mora, i hate him even more in the dialogs in the last quest, dude is all powerful being, ask you for your mortal help, when you say something, whats his answer? "how dare you suppose to know something i don't know" wtf dude, look at yourself, and the other elf who helps the player had to beg for her crush to come back "ohh just rememver you'll pay for this" dude, she gave her life to you, to help save your damm squid divinity life 2 times, he just snap a finger and hes back, what's the effort it had?

gary.mcleodeb17_ESO

I began the story line very late, I think when Gold Road launched, I concentrated on doing incursions and the various bosses, then left it to concentrate on other chapters, some PvP and dipped my toes into another game. I returned recently to complete, side stories and then the main GR storyline. I've been part of the TESO community since 2014, and have never felt so interested and connected to this character Ithelia. I can't say too much for fear of spoliing the story for others. I would follow her without question, for better or worse. I would love to discover her again be my road be untravelled, less travelled, tragic or fortunate.So intrigued did I become about 'She Who Saw and Wept', I even asked Gemini AI about her story and was very satisfied with the answers it gave me. I so want to find her again.

sans-culottes

The issue with Ithelia’s story is structural, not sentimental. The narrative sets up world-altering stakes—introducing a Daedric Prince who challenges destiny itself—but resolves them by quietly erasing her without any lasting consequences.

This creates a dissonance between the magnitude of what was promised and the smallness of what was delivered. Ithelia is framed as too dangerous to exist, yet the metaphysical threat she represented is not meaningfully explored.

The story asks players to believe they witnessed a cosmic event, but the world remains unchanged. That is why it feels hollow: not because players simply sympathize with Ithelia, but because the story refuses to follow through on its own implications.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

ArchMikem wrote: »

Even though I think Mora can shove it, i will say, Ithelia's very existence was an existential threat. She had the power to tear the fabric of Reality apart if she simply was angry enough. We the player even witness this in one of the Timelines. That Ithelia's Torvesard was even like "Bro, you really need to get your item and leave or you'll cease to exist." A Dremora showing regard for a Mortal's life before his own world and existence comes to an end.

I also think bringing Sexism and Patriarchal Oppression into it isn't necessary.

All of this, also, Mora’s never been a great guy. He’s perfectly happy to kill off one of his own followers just to complete his collection of mortal race souls, and for those of you who haven’t played the Dragonborn DLC for Skyrim he kills someone for giving him the information he’d specifically wanted. This isn’t new behavior for him.

LootAllTheStuff

Mora definitely gives off "I have altered the deal; pray I do not alter it further" vibes. It baffles me how many willing mortals there are throughout Apocrypha. Maybe not quite as nonsensical as worshipping some of the others (Mephala, Boethia, etc.) but not exactly a smart move.

I found the story both compelling and lacking. Compelling, because you really identify with Ithelia's plight before she rediscovers who she is. Lacking, because (once again) there are several junctures where it's pretty obvious what you should do/say, but the game doesn't let you (the player agency issue). I was also expecting there to be at least some consequences showing up after the conclusion: the story essentially revealed that Mora isn't as completely in control as he likes to claim, so he shouldn't have been able to entirely reset everyone involved.

joshisanonymous

Pelanora wrote: »

She threatened Moras world of secretive control and micro managing everyone's destiny, with freedom and 'the road not taken' so he ended her. With zero evidence for us she was even a threat.

I mean, we did see her destroy other worlds...

cyclonus11

joshisanonymous wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

She threatened Moras world of secretive control and micro managing everyone's destiny, with freedom and 'the road not taken' so he ended her. With zero evidence for us she was even a threat.

I mean, we did see her destroy other worlds...

But only because Mora sought to destroy her. If daedra just are who they are, it is Mora who destroyed the other worlds through his actions, not her.

Thorncrypt

Ithellia, while in Mirrormoor, her daedric realm, and using the loom of the untravelled road can give everyone their own version of reality which suits their desires. This is the ultimate form of freedom from destiny. Mora wouldn't have liked that at all as it means everyone has the freedom to control their version of the universe. Apparently her powers were not without consequence as it could cause complications such as fate knots. She was called the Last Tomorrow because others feared her ability to cause reality tears and bring about the end.