Necro can have 6 pets from base class skills only, raise the pet count

Zyaneth_Bal · April 17

Necro can have 6 pets on live already with class skills only, without even using proc sets.

And that’s not even including corpses.

The newly imposed limit of 5 pets max limits even the original class, not to mention potential build diversity (if possible to limit it more) and possibility of actual pet builds.
Along with the new limit the change to sorcerer’s daedric prey is baseless too. Even without those changes pet builds would not be able to compete with meta builds let alone become ones.

These new changes only serve to limit potential build options, there was never anything to be nerfed to begin with.

Please, raise the max pet count. As well as make daedric prey buff all pets.

Urzigurumash · April 17

Do you get corpses if you have your own Sorc pets? What about Warden pets and Arc Summon Ults?

Zyaneth_Bal · April 17

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Do you get corpses if you have your own Sorc pets? What about Warden pets and Arc Summon Ults?

No, only necro skills tgat state they generate corpses. Arc ult isn’t even a pet.

ForumBully · April 17

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Necro can have 6 pets on live already with class skills only, without even using proc sets.

The newly imposed limit of 5 pets max limits even the original class, not to mention potential build diversity (if possible to limit it more) and possibility of actual pet builds.
Along with the new limit the change to sorcerer’s daedric prey is baseless too. Even without those changes pet builds would not be able to compete with meta builds let alone become ones.

These new changes only serve to limit potential build options, there was never anything to be nerfed to begin with.

Please, raise the max pet count. As well as make daedric prey buff all pets.

The last thing I want to fight in PvP is a zoo build, but, ZOS has created pet centric classes. The Necro churns them out constantly. They aren't all permanent, but this cap makes for an annoying accounting minigame during theorycrafting. And then you get into the game and it seems like a skill just isn't working or ends too soon because in that moment you hit the cap.

This is just bad. It's a bad experience for vet players and newer players will see this and think the game is buggy.

Zyaneth_Bal · April 17

ForumBully wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Necro can have 6 pets on live already with class skills only, without even using proc sets.

The newly imposed limit of 5 pets max limits even the original class, not to mention potential build diversity (if possible to limit it more) and possibility of actual pet builds.
Along with the new limit the change to sorcerer’s daedric prey is baseless too. Even without those changes pet builds would not be able to compete with meta builds let alone become ones.

These new changes only serve to limit potential build options, there was never anything to be nerfed to begin with.

Please, raise the max pet count. As well as make daedric prey buff all pets.

The last thing I want to fight in PvP is a zoo build, but, ZOS has created pet centric classes. The Necro churns them out constantly. They aren't all permanent, but this cap makes for an annoying accounting minigame during theorycrafting. And then you get into the game and it seems like a skill just isn't working or ends too soon because in that moment you hit the cap.

This is just bad. It's a bad experience for vet players and newer players will see this and think the game is buggy.

Have to wonder why players are so afraid of pet builds when in reality any pet build does and will have less damage, survivability, sustain than any proper build by a big margin.
Using pets other than necro’s or even building into pets means handicapping yourself for the sole sake of a funny build. I already said that in my original post.

I’m glad you agree with the change being dumb though.

ForumBully · April 17

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Necro can have 6 pets on live already with class skills only, without even using proc sets.

The newly imposed limit of 5 pets max limits even the original class, not to mention potential build diversity (if possible to limit it more) and possibility of actual pet builds.
Along with the new limit the change to sorcerer’s daedric prey is baseless too. Even without those changes pet builds would not be able to compete with meta builds let alone become ones.

These new changes only serve to limit potential build options, there was never anything to be nerfed to begin with.

Please, raise the max pet count. As well as make daedric prey buff all pets.

The last thing I want to fight in PvP is a zoo build, but, ZOS has created pet centric classes. The Necro churns them out constantly. They aren't all permanent, but this cap makes for an annoying accounting minigame during theorycrafting. And then you get into the game and it seems like a skill just isn't working or ends too soon because in that moment you hit the cap.

This is just bad. It's a bad experience for vet players and newer players will see this and think the game is buggy.

Have to wonder why players are so afraid of pet builds when in reality any pet build does and will have less damage, survivability, sustain than any proper build by a big margin.
Using pets other than necro’s or even building into pets means handicapping yourself for the sole sake of a funny build. I already said that in my original post.

I’m glad you agree with the change being dumb though.

It's just an annoyance thing. I don't remember a terrifying Zoo build in PvP... although pet Sorcs have been strong before.
It's like, you're trying to get at someone and they keep throwing traffic cones and shopping carts and knocking over shelves to keep you away. Once you get to them, it's fine, but its such a hassle.

ForumBully · April 17

Necromancer has an ultimate that require more than half the pet cap to be just bodies on the floor...forget about any actual pets. This is a weird update in so far as trying to encourage pet interaction on one hand and stifling it with the other

Zyaneth_Bal · April 17

ForumBully wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Necro can have 6 pets on live already with class skills only, without even using proc sets.

The newly imposed limit of 5 pets max limits even the original class, not to mention potential build diversity (if possible to limit it more) and possibility of actual pet builds.
Along with the new limit the change to sorcerer’s daedric prey is baseless too. Even without those changes pet builds would not be able to compete with meta builds let alone become ones.

These new changes only serve to limit potential build options, there was never anything to be nerfed to begin with.

Please, raise the max pet count. As well as make daedric prey buff all pets.

The last thing I want to fight in PvP is a zoo build, but, ZOS has created pet centric classes. The Necro churns them out constantly. They aren't all permanent, but this cap makes for an annoying accounting minigame during theorycrafting. And then you get into the game and it seems like a skill just isn't working or ends too soon because in that moment you hit the cap.

This is just bad. It's a bad experience for vet players and newer players will see this and think the game is buggy.

Have to wonder why players are so afraid of pet builds when in reality any pet build does and will have less damage, survivability, sustain than any proper build by a big margin.
Using pets other than necro’s or even building into pets means handicapping yourself for the sole sake of a funny build. I already said that in my original post.

I’m glad you agree with the change being dumb though.

It's just an annoyance thing. I don't remember a terrifying Zoo build in PvP... although pet Sorcs have been strong before.
It's like, you're trying to get at someone and they keep throwing traffic cones and shopping carts and knocking over shelves to keep you away. Once you get to them, it's fine, but its such a hassle.

It’s not like you can’t hit them at all. And either they way they will die eventually and sooner rather than later unlike some block healing meta build that can burst you in a single gcd.

So I really fail to see anything that would warrant these changes.

ForumBully · April 17

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Necro can have 6 pets on live already with class skills only, without even using proc sets.

The newly imposed limit of 5 pets max limits even the original class, not to mention potential build diversity (if possible to limit it more) and possibility of actual pet builds.
Along with the new limit the change to sorcerer’s daedric prey is baseless too. Even without those changes pet builds would not be able to compete with meta builds let alone become ones.

These new changes only serve to limit potential build options, there was never anything to be nerfed to begin with.

Please, raise the max pet count. As well as make daedric prey buff all pets.

The last thing I want to fight in PvP is a zoo build, but, ZOS has created pet centric classes. The Necro churns them out constantly. They aren't all permanent, but this cap makes for an annoying accounting minigame during theorycrafting. And then you get into the game and it seems like a skill just isn't working or ends too soon because in that moment you hit the cap.

This is just bad. It's a bad experience for vet players and newer players will see this and think the game is buggy.

Have to wonder why players are so afraid of pet builds when in reality any pet build does and will have less damage, survivability, sustain than any proper build by a big margin.
Using pets other than necro’s or even building into pets means handicapping yourself for the sole sake of a funny build. I already said that in my original post.

I’m glad you agree with the change being dumb though.

It's just an annoyance thing. I don't remember a terrifying Zoo build in PvP... although pet Sorcs have been strong before.
It's like, you're trying to get at someone and they keep throwing traffic cones and shopping carts and knocking over shelves to keep you away. Once you get to them, it's fine, but its such a hassle.

It’s not like you can’t hit them at all. And either they way they will die eventually and sooner rather than later unlike some block healing meta build that can burst you in a single gcd.

Theres definitely more annoying things. And playing pet builds has been fun and could be a lot of fun again if not for this arbitrary cap and restrictions on how class passives enhance pet gameplay

Ragnarok0130 · April 17

ForumBully wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Necro can have 6 pets on live already with class skills only, without even using proc sets.

The newly imposed limit of 5 pets max limits even the original class, not to mention potential build diversity (if possible to limit it more) and possibility of actual pet builds.
Along with the new limit the change to sorcerer’s daedric prey is baseless too. Even without those changes pet builds would not be able to compete with meta builds let alone become ones.

These new changes only serve to limit potential build options, there was never anything to be nerfed to begin with.

Please, raise the max pet count. As well as make daedric prey buff all pets.

The last thing I want to fight in PvP is a zoo build, but, ZOS has created pet centric classes. The Necro churns them out constantly. They aren't all permanent, but this cap makes for an annoying accounting minigame during theorycrafting. And then you get into the game and it seems like a skill just isn't working or ends too soon because in that moment you hit the cap.

This is just bad. It's a bad experience for vet players and newer players will see this and think the game is buggy.

Have to wonder why players are so afraid of pet builds when in reality any pet build does and will have less damage, survivability, sustain than any proper build by a big margin.
Using pets other than necro’s or even building into pets means handicapping yourself for the sole sake of a funny build. I already said that in my original post.

I’m glad you agree with the change being dumb though.

It's just an annoyance thing. I don't remember a terrifying Zoo build in PvP... although pet Sorcs have been strong before.
It's like, you're trying to get at someone and they keep throwing traffic cones and shopping carts and knocking over shelves to keep you away. Once you get to them, it's fine, but its such a hassle.

You haven't fought against a multiclass with a twilight, scamp, bear, and blast bones on a live server either so I suspect it will likely be an issue in PVP. Beyond the combat balance situation can you imagine the server performance hit in Cyro with a large population of zoo builds all in the same area? I suspect it would rival the hammer in terms of inducing lag, freezing, and rubber banding and teleportation on the server.

ForumBully · April 17

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Necro can have 6 pets on live already with class skills only, without even using proc sets.

The newly imposed limit of 5 pets max limits even the original class, not to mention potential build diversity (if possible to limit it more) and possibility of actual pet builds.
Along with the new limit the change to sorcerer’s daedric prey is baseless too. Even without those changes pet builds would not be able to compete with meta builds let alone become ones.

These new changes only serve to limit potential build options, there was never anything to be nerfed to begin with.

Please, raise the max pet count. As well as make daedric prey buff all pets.

The last thing I want to fight in PvP is a zoo build, but, ZOS has created pet centric classes. The Necro churns them out constantly. They aren't all permanent, but this cap makes for an annoying accounting minigame during theorycrafting. And then you get into the game and it seems like a skill just isn't working or ends too soon because in that moment you hit the cap.

This is just bad. It's a bad experience for vet players and newer players will see this and think the game is buggy.

Have to wonder why players are so afraid of pet builds when in reality any pet build does and will have less damage, survivability, sustain than any proper build by a big margin.
Using pets other than necro’s or even building into pets means handicapping yourself for the sole sake of a funny build. I already said that in my original post.

I’m glad you agree with the change being dumb though.

It's just an annoyance thing. I don't remember a terrifying Zoo build in PvP... although pet Sorcs have been strong before.
It's like, you're trying to get at someone and they keep throwing traffic cones and shopping carts and knocking over shelves to keep you away. Once you get to them, it's fine, but its such a hassle.

You haven't fought against a multiclass with a twilight, scamp, bear, and blast bones on a live server either so I suspect it will likely be an issue in PVP. Beyond the combat balance situation can you imagine the server performance hit in Cyro with a large population of zoo builds all in the same area? I suspect it would rival the hammer in terms of inducing lag, freezing, and rubber banding and teleportation on the server.

It would be something to see. I've ran in full Sorc groups with all the pets we could muster, I can't imagine the army that would be possible with subclassing. Still, ZOS made pet centric skill lines and classes, so that needs to be looked at closer I think. If a new player sees a pet disappear or a skill not work because of a cap, what are they to make of that? They don't know the history or problems and that looks at first glance like a bug IMO.
What I really don't understand is the change to Daedric Summoning which was essentially "use pets or hit the bricks" and on the other hand "don't use pets too much".

StarOfElyon · April 17

For some reason, ZOS looked at Necros and looked at Night Blades and said, "We have to nerf Necromancers and buff Night Blades again because Necros are too strong and they're all over the place."

Zyaneth_Bal · April 17

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Necro can have 6 pets on live already with class skills only, without even using proc sets.

The newly imposed limit of 5 pets max limits even the original class, not to mention potential build diversity (if possible to limit it more) and possibility of actual pet builds.
Along with the new limit the change to sorcerer’s daedric prey is baseless too. Even without those changes pet builds would not be able to compete with meta builds let alone become ones.

These new changes only serve to limit potential build options, there was never anything to be nerfed to begin with.

Please, raise the max pet count. As well as make daedric prey buff all pets.

The last thing I want to fight in PvP is a zoo build, but, ZOS has created pet centric classes. The Necro churns them out constantly. They aren't all permanent, but this cap makes for an annoying accounting minigame during theorycrafting. And then you get into the game and it seems like a skill just isn't working or ends too soon because in that moment you hit the cap.

This is just bad. It's a bad experience for vet players and newer players will see this and think the game is buggy.

Have to wonder why players are so afraid of pet builds when in reality any pet build does and will have less damage, survivability, sustain than any proper build by a big margin.
Using pets other than necro’s or even building into pets means handicapping yourself for the sole sake of a funny build. I already said that in my original post.

I’m glad you agree with the change being dumb though.

It's just an annoyance thing. I don't remember a terrifying Zoo build in PvP... although pet Sorcs have been strong before.
It's like, you're trying to get at someone and they keep throwing traffic cones and shopping carts and knocking over shelves to keep you away. Once you get to them, it's fine, but its such a hassle.

You haven't fought against a multiclass with a twilight, scamp, bear, and blast bones on a live server either so I suspect it will likely be an issue in PVP. Beyond the combat balance situation can you imagine the server performance hit in Cyro with a large population of zoo builds all in the same area? I suspect it would rival the hammer in terms of inducing lag, freezing, and rubber banding and teleportation on the server.

I don’t need to fight an obviously bad build to say it’s bad. You give up tons of sustain/damage/mitigation/healing in order to slot pets for the sake of slotting them without getting much benefit. it will never be an issue in pvp for an average and above player with a proper build.
That’s not what causes lag, so you’re wrong again.

Zyaneth_Bal · April 17

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Necro can have 6 pets on live already with class skills only, without even using proc sets.

The newly imposed limit of 5 pets max limits even the original class, not to mention potential build diversity (if possible to limit it more) and possibility of actual pet builds.
Along with the new limit the change to sorcerer’s daedric prey is baseless too. Even without those changes pet builds would not be able to compete with meta builds let alone become ones.

These new changes only serve to limit potential build options, there was never anything to be nerfed to begin with.

Please, raise the max pet count. As well as make daedric prey buff all pets.

The last thing I want to fight in PvP is a zoo build, but, ZOS has created pet centric classes. The Necro churns them out constantly. They aren't all permanent, but this cap makes for an annoying accounting minigame during theorycrafting. And then you get into the game and it seems like a skill just isn't working or ends too soon because in that moment you hit the cap.

This is just bad. It's a bad experience for vet players and newer players will see this and think the game is buggy.

Have to wonder why players are so afraid of pet builds when in reality any pet build does and will have less damage, survivability, sustain than any proper build by a big margin.
Using pets other than necro’s or even building into pets means handicapping yourself for the sole sake of a funny build. I already said that in my original post.

I’m glad you agree with the change being dumb though.

It's just an annoyance thing. I don't remember a terrifying Zoo build in PvP... although pet Sorcs have been strong before.
It's like, you're trying to get at someone and they keep throwing traffic cones and shopping carts and knocking over shelves to keep you away. Once you get to them, it's fine, but its such a hassle.

You haven't fought against a multiclass with a twilight, scamp, bear, and blast bones on a live server either so I suspect it will likely be an issue in PVP. Beyond the combat balance situation can you imagine the server performance hit in Cyro with a large population of zoo builds all in the same area? I suspect it would rival the hammer in terms of inducing lag, freezing, and rubber banding and teleportation on the server.

I don’t need to fight an obviously bad build to say it’s bad. You give up tons of sustain/damage/mitigation/healing in order to slot pets for the sake of slotting them without getting much benefit. it will never be an issue in pvp for an average and above player with a proper build.
That’s not what causes lag, so you’re wrong again.

And the thread is mainly about the random new limit on max pet count which poorly interacts with necromancer kit. Stay on topic please

Deimus · April 17

This change heavily penalizes any Necromancer for playing into their class kit.

You have to juggle the pets you slot with the corpse consumers. So you're running Deaden Pain, Reanimate Blastbones, OR Enduring Undeath with one of the tethers since you can't utilize all of them effectively with restrictions. With that which pet do you drop to make sure you can get 3 corpses to use? Skeletal Mage is your damage buff, Blastbones IS your damage, and Mender is your unique mitigation buff. If this is the change they go with they need to change the corpse consumers to reflect this and max out their bonuses at 2 corpses instead of 3-5. Nobody will be swapping to their backbar every 7 seconds to keep Deaden Pain up

The crazy part about the restriction to 5 pets and corpses combined in PvP is for performance reasons. It's the least played class in PvP by a lot so why is this the first thing they zero in on to improve performance putting a cap on pets instead of idk putting a cap on heal stacking? It won't yield any noticeable change as you might only encounter a handful of Necromancers a play session and out of them maybe 1 or 2 are actually using the class kit instead of Dswing and Execute with proc sets.

Dialectic93 · April 21

Agree, it's ridiculous to share corpses with pet limit, Necro needs 6-7 corpses just to function, plus the 3-6 pets if you animate blastbones. Blastbones should not even be counted as a pet.

Urzigurumash · April 21

StarOfElyon wrote: »

For some reason, ZOS looked at Necros and looked at Night Blades and said, "We have to nerf Necromancers and buff Night Blades again because Necros are too strong and they're all over the place."

Yeah Necro's closing the gap on NB, lately it's like 1 Necro to 19 NBs rather than 1 to 20

StarMightyMaster · April 21

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Necro can have 6 pets on live already with class skills only, without even using proc sets.

The newly imposed limit of 5 pets max limits even the original class, not to mention potential build diversity (if possible to limit it more) and possibility of actual pet builds.
Along with the new limit the change to sorcerer’s daedric prey is baseless too. Even without those changes pet builds would not be able to compete with meta builds let alone become ones.

These new changes only serve to limit potential build options, there was never anything to be nerfed to begin with.

Please, raise the max pet count. As well as make daedric prey buff all pets.

I mean if "Necro can have 6 pets on live already with class skills only, without even using proc sets" then the cap really should go up you can't even play the class with everything it has if you wanted to that is very odd and very silly you can't

Zyaneth_Bal · April 21

StarMightyMaster wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Necro can have 6 pets on live already with class skills only, without even using proc sets.

The newly imposed limit of 5 pets max limits even the original class, not to mention potential build diversity (if possible to limit it more) and possibility of actual pet builds.
Along with the new limit the change to sorcerer’s daedric prey is baseless too. Even without those changes pet builds would not be able to compete with meta builds let alone become ones.

These new changes only serve to limit potential build options, there was never anything to be nerfed to begin with.

Please, raise the max pet count. As well as make daedric prey buff all pets.

I mean if "Necro can have 6 pets on live already with class skills only, without even using proc sets" then the cap really should go up you can't even play the class with everything it has if you wanted to that is very odd and very silly you can't

Indeed, and 6 without taking corpses into account which apparently count too, so in reality it’s even worse.

CameraBeardThePirate · April 21

@ZOS_Kevin I really don't want this issue to turn into something that gets implemented and inadvertently ruins a class because somehow the feedback wasn't seen.

Necro shouldn't take strays just because of performance. The corpse+pet cap in PvP needs to be increased or the corpse consumers need to be changed. Necro in PvP will be so much clunkier, and many of their abilities will be flat out useless due to lack of corpses if this change goes live.