ESO+ just lost a significant amount of value AGAIN!

Chufu · April 13

TBH in times where we just get bombarded in our lives with subscription-services, I would pretty much prefer as well, to remove ESO+ completely and offer the perks instead as one-time purchases.

Now that dungeons will be a part of the content pass anyway, the only real difference for ESO+ is the furniture vault. Not sure yet what to think of it and how easy it's accessible. If it works the same way as the resource-bag it would be great, otherwise it's just not really needed. The ones of us who loves furnitures, put them usually directly into their houses anyway and the ones who don't want furnitures, are selling them. Hence this new vault is not really a big deal.

The only big reason why I kept ESO+ so far was the resource bag tbh. Most other stuff I have already bought with the crowns that I received from the subscription, so after the announcement of the content pass, I must honestly say that I'm currently rethinking if paying any further still makes sense as no other big things get added to it.

ImmortalCX · April 13

Previous Model:
Major Chapter Zone ($30-50 paid)
Zone DLC (crowns or eso+)
Dungeon DLC 1 (crowns or eso+)
Dungeon DLC 2 (crowns or eso+)

New Model:
Major Chapter Expansion (does not exist)
Zone DLC (content pass)
Dungeon DLC 1 (content pass)
Dungeon DLC 2 (content pass)

Because there is no major chapter expansion, they are bunding a zone-sized DLC, and two Dungeon DLCs into a yearly content pass. You can argue that a small zone and two DLC is equivalent to a major chapter.

The first problem is a price increase. Previously, the "upgrade" to the yearly chapter was $30. Or $50 if you needed some missing chapters. With the content pass, you have to pay $50, even if you owned all previous chapters. This seems overpriced by $20.

The second problem is that legacy content is divorced from the content pass. Unlike buying a chapter expansion which could give you all missing backwards content depending on the version you buy, the content pass is only the current year's new zone and dungeons. If new player wants "most" content, they need to buy the base game ($20) + Gold Road w/ legacy ($50) + 2025 Content Pass ($50). And this doesn't even include all the legacy DLC, so they would need a $15 monthly on top. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this appears to represent a $50 price increase.

The third problem is that new DLCs are not crown purchaseable. So if someone bought the major chapter and/or eso+ they could grind gold or pay for DLCs with crowns. This also represents a price increase. Now you can't buy a specific dungeon pack you need, it is all or nothing. So if they introduce a dungeon set you want for a build, it is $50.

And fourth problem is value proposition for ESO+. This is difficult to quantify, but because it doesn't give the new dungeon DLCs, one of the primary incentives for subbing is gone. I think they could fix this by lowering the cost of ESO+. Make it $10 or less. The people who really get screwed are lifetime eso+ players, because if they didn't buy the DLC with crowns over the years, they basically have to stay subbed to keep accessing it without getting any new content.

I think to fix this and make it an equivalent value, they would have to do two things:

1) The $50 content pass would need to also include all the previous major chapters. Just like the $50 chapter expansions did. Or lower the price of the content pass to $30 to be in line with previous yearly content drop.

2) Lower ESO+ price to $10 or less.

Myself, I still have a few major expansion content to work through, so I can't see myself paying $50 for 2025 content pass. In fact, any new player coming to the game would be better served by buying the Gold Road+ version for $50 (which is essentially 9 years of major expansions), instead of the $50 content pass.

Just comparing the relative value shows how overpriced the 2025 content pass is. Players are not dumb and we recognize what this represents. Less content for more money,.

liliub17_ESO · April 13

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Previous Model:
Major Chapter Zone ($30-50 paid)
Zone DLC (crowns or eso+)
Dungeon DLC 1 (crowns or eso+)
Dungeon DLC 2 (crowns or eso+)
[snip]

I have ESO+ on two accounts. The zone DLC you mention is *not* included with + until the next chapter comes out -OR- you purchase the chapter from which it comes. For example, the last DLC zone was technically West Weald - the map belonging to Gold Road.

ImmortalCX · April 13

liliub17_ESO wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Previous Model:
Major Chapter Zone ($30-50 paid)
Zone DLC (crowns or eso+)
Dungeon DLC 1 (crowns or eso+)
Dungeon DLC 2 (crowns or eso+)
[snip]

I have ESO+ on two accounts. The zone DLC you mention is *not* included with + until the next chapter comes out -OR- you purchase the chapter from which it comes. For example, the last DLC zone was technically West Weald - the map belonging to Gold Road.

Correct. The comparison was based on purchasing either the chapter expansion on release, or the Content Pass.

cyberjanet · April 14

ESO+, for me, has been a way to buy crowns and get perks as a bonus, instead of just buying crowns. And the decent perks have been a kind of incentive to have a regular supply of crowns: DLC dungeons, crafting bag, extra bank space, extra housing slots. There are some other things like extra XP that don't really matter to me, so I forget about them. With the anticipated changes, I have to ask myself: Why do I need crowns now? I'm not going to spend them on armory or outfit slots, as those are per character and not per account, which is ridiculous at the cost. If they were included in ESO+, would that be worth it? I don't know. I have enough trouble decorating a staple home, and only notable homes get sold, will there be another I really want? I could buy the dungeons I really enjoy, I guess, to keep access. But €15 a month for storage? What universe was that idea created in?
If I continue with ESO - and that wall thing is really off-putting at first glance - I can be ruthless about cutting required bank space, and I still have character slots for mules. So unless I need crowns for something particularly irresistible, I will probably do without Plus. (Mounts, skins, Armor packs, motifs and most of the current crown store offerings are not it.)
In the meantime, I will make no decisions as I wait for more information. But I won't spend my current crowns either.

sleepy_worm · April 14

Zone DLC like Galen or the Deadlands was, indeed, included in ESO+ subscriptions on day 1 of its release.

KekwLord3000 · April 14

AzuraFan wrote: »

I've been a subscriber for a while now. Given what's happening (ESO+ losing more and more value over time), I'd much rather just pay for stuff outright. So I'd prefer that ESO+ go away, and things like the craft bag and furniture vault be a one-time purchase.

It feels like ESO+ is a legacy thing. As ESO's content model evolves, ZOS is trying to evolve ESO+ with it, but the result has been a devaluation of the whole sub. Which brings us to today, when subscribers have been told that if they'd like to play the new content at release, they have to buy a pass that includes content they already pay for every month through their sub. To me, that's double-dipping, and it certainly means that non-subscribers are getting more value for their money from the content pass (an expensive pass, I might add). I don't begrudge at all non-subscribers getting the dungeons. I just don't like the way subscribers are being treated.

I question why two version of the content pass weren't offered: one that includes the dungeons, and one that doesn't. Not everyone wants the dungeons, and non-subscribers who don't want them are being forced to pay for them if they want to play the new content.

For ESO+, I think it should be let go at this point, and the perks that can go into the crown store should go into the crown store. That would be the craft bag, the increased bank slots, and the furniture vault. Just sell them outright and get rid of ESO+.

Imo that's a very fair compromise, if they released a season pass that doesn't include the 2 dungeon pack but at a lower price that would be very fair for both the subs and the content pass buyers.

agelonestar · April 14

Gabriel_H wrote: »

agelonestar wrote: »

2. This year, ESO+ subscribers are paying TWICE if they buy the Season Pass. e.g. The dungeons are included in ESO+ AND the Season Pass.

You would only be paying "TWICE" if they increased the subscription price.

[snip]

ESO+ includes access to the two dungeon DLCs and is supposed to include access to other DLC content.
The Season Pass includes access to the two dungeon DLCs. It provides access to other DLC content.

There is no way to be a + subscriber and get access to the “Chapter” main content. There is no way to buy a season pass and get access to the + benefits. So, to get what I had with Summerset (for example), I must now pay twice for the same content.

I hope this helps. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

JinKC98 · April 14

I'll suggest increased Bank storage and Transmute storage, housing furniture limits and Crowns to compensate for the loss of value! If their goal is to get more people to buy ESO+ Subscription and Content Pass, they seriously need to add more values to the Plus.

agelonestar · April 14

For those who just don’t get it, this is taken from the Elder Scrolls Online official website today. Even now ZoS is advertising ESO+ membership as having “full access to all DLC game packs”.

The DLC has been stripped from the membership with no notice, leaving only the dungeons. The ONLY way to get access to the “new chapter” is to buy an ADDITIONAL season pass, which is priced to INCLUDE “full access to all DLC game packs”.

The more I think about this, the more p***ed off I am. I have never minded paying for ESO, but this feels distinctly underhand to me - no notice to customers for a substantial change in the service, double billing, no explanation.

@ZOS_Kevin I’ll ask again - can we have a statement from ZoS on this please? I’m even starting to think that what you’re doing isn’t legal, given how you advertise as below.

licenturion · April 14

agelonestar wrote: »

For those who just don’t get it, this is taken from the Elder Scrolls Online official website today. Even now ZoS is advertising ESO+ membership as having “full access to all DLC game packs”.

The DLC has been stripped from the membership with no notice, leaving only the dungeons. The ONLY way to get access to the “new chapter” is to buy an ADDITIONAL season pass, which is priced to INCLUDE “full access to all DLC game packs”.

The more I think about this, the more p***ed off I am. I have never minded paying for ESO, but this feels distinctly underhand to me - no notice to customers for a substantial change in the service, double billing, no explanation.

@ZOS_Kevin I’ll ask again - can we have a statement from ZoS on this please? I’m even starting to think that what you’re doing isn’t legal, given how you advertise as below.

You forgot the fine print for the number 1 by accident I guess and cut off the screenshot just a bit too high

¹Access to DLC game packs available in the Crown Store (2024 Gold Road Chapter not included)

ESO plus never included the latest major expansion/chapter/zone because it is not considered a 'DLC game pack' the first year and is not available in the crown store. Dungeons are.

agelonestar wrote: »

the “new chapter” is to buy an ADDITIONAL season pass, which is priced to INCLUDE “full access to all DLC game packs”.

Where do you find that information? Cause even the premium edition pass doesn't include full access to all DLC packs. Murkmire, Deadlands, Galen and all pre 2025 dungeons are not part of any of the passes and are ESO+ and crown store exclusive.

BXR_Lonestar · April 14

alternatelder wrote: »

The furnishing vault is great, but it still doesn't make up for all that we've lost. As of now, I'm done spending money on the annual pass, it's no longer worth it for me. I'll buy 1-3 months out of the year, if even that, but more needs to be added to the subscription to make it a better value for everyone.

IMO, the furnishing vault shouldn't be a vault like a bank - it should work like the set armor sticker book. That way no need to create an additional storage system that is just going to further clog up the system. You simply earn items from the vault and they're unlocked, and once unlocked, you can reconstruct them using transmute gems. Simple.

And it gives housing people a reason to go out and grind dungeons, PVP, and other events to earn transmutation gems.

agelonestar · April 14

@licenturion I'm really not sure what point you're making, but I'll answer your questions.

1. Chapters have never been included with ESO+. However, up until very recently ESO+ included 2x dungeons and 1x DLC zone per year, as well as access to prior dungeon and DLC releases. The reason for the temporary change was given as a desire to spend the time a new zone would take on QoL and bug fixes - this was specifically billed as a temporary approach at the time.
2. I wasn't suggesting the Game Pass gave access to historical DLC. I was referencing that it gives access to this year's DLC and dungeons - which Plus is also supposed to give access to.

My point remains = ESO+ was supposed to be the mechanism by which subscribers got access to DLC and dungeon content - old and new. The DLC has been dropped from Plus, while Dungeons are now a feature of both the subscription AND the Pass.

Subscribers are being ripped off.

licenturion · April 14

sleepy_worm wrote: »

Zone DLC like Galen or the Deadlands was, indeed, included in ESO+ subscriptions on day 1 of its release.

They where also given away for free to chapter owners if you logged in during the community challenge. They also gave other zones away as login rewards last year with the anniversary events. There were also a bunch of posts every time that ESO+ subscribers should get extra's because they paid for something that others got for free. But that never happened either.

LadyGP · April 14

alternatelder wrote: »

The furnishing vault is great, but it still doesn't make up for all that we've lost. As of now, I'm done spending money on the annual pass, it's no longer worth it for me. I'll buy 1-3 months out of the year, if even that, but more needs to be added to the subscription to make it a better value for everyone.

This.

AzuraFan · April 14

licenturion wrote: »

sleepy_worm wrote: »

Zone DLC like Galen or the Deadlands was, indeed, included in ESO+ subscriptions on day 1 of its release.

They where also given away for free to chapter owners if you logged in during the community challenge. They also gave other zones away as login rewards last year with the anniversary events. There were also a bunch of posts every time that ESO+ subscribers should get extra's because they paid for something that others got for free. But that never happened either.

Yeah, ZOS has been playing fast and loose with subscribers for a while, giving away some DLCs to everyone and therefore devaluing the sub. I was one of the few that complained about it and was basically told by non-subscribers and subscribers alike to suck it up because everyone subscribes just for the craft bag anyway. Maybe if more subscribers had complained back then, rather than sucking it up, we might not be where we are today. Or maybe not. A decision maker involved in how to monetize the game believes that subscribers will suck up just about anything without a peep. The only way to say no is to vote with your wallets.

licenturion · April 14

AzuraFan wrote: »

licenturion wrote: »

sleepy_worm wrote: »

Zone DLC like Galen or the Deadlands was, indeed, included in ESO+ subscriptions on day 1 of its release.

They where also given away for free to chapter owners if you logged in during the community challenge. They also gave other zones away as login rewards last year with the anniversary events. There were also a bunch of posts every time that ESO+ subscribers should get extra's because they paid for something that others got for free. But that never happened either.

Yeah, ZOS has been playing fast and loose with subscribers for a while, giving away some DLCs to everyone and therefore devaluing the sub. I was one of the few that complained about it and was basically told by non-subscribers and subscribers alike to suck it up because everyone subscribes just for the craft bag anyway. Maybe if more subscribers had complained back then, rather than sucking it up, we might not be where we are today. Or maybe not. A decision maker involved in how to monetize the game believes that subscribers will suck up just about anything without a peep. The only way to say no is to vote with your wallets.

I get where you’re coming from. But I'd argue that offering some DLCs or content for free doesn’t necessarily hurt the value of a subscription—it can actually strengthen the ecosystem in the long run.

Take a real-world example: PlayStation Plus or Xbox Game Pass. Sometimes, games that subscribers paid full price for end up being offered "free" through the service later. Yeah, it’s annoying if you just bought that title, but the bigger picture is that these promotions bring in more players, reinvigorate communities, and extend a game’s life. More players = healthier game = more content down the line.

The vote with you wallet is the best thing you can do. I also said that in another thread here. If you don't find the ESO+ proposition valuable anymore, stop paying. If enough people do that they will change the price or the product. But most people seem just to complain and keep paying because they can't miss something in the subscription. So that means they still find if valuable and give the signal that everything is okay.

I am not affected since I hate subscriptions. And now that the deluxe stuff and the dungeons are part of the pass, I actually save money.

Melivar · April 14

While I can see why alot of people are unhappy or questioning things it all breaks down to the individual for the worth of ESO+. Craft Bag and the other non dungeons perks are enough for me to pay the sub and support the game regularly. Now they are adding the furniture storage which is better than dungeons for me as a consumer. The ESO+ crowns also give me enough to grab just about anything I want.

At times I would almost prefer that it didn't include dungeons but overall it's still been a good perk for me to access those to play with friends

I personally wouldn't play without ESO+ as I did for a small stretch when I was unhappy with the trend of things and wanted to try out some other games so cancelled my sub for a month or so. When I came back to playing full time I lasted 2 days before I picked the sub back up.

Now while the longer time commitments can save you money I now only subscribe month to month so I can in fact vote with my wallet easier should I choose to

sans-culottes · April 14

licenturion wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

licenturion wrote: »

sleepy_worm wrote: »

Zone DLC like Galen or the Deadlands was, indeed, included in ESO+ subscriptions on day 1 of its release.

They where also given away for free to chapter owners if you logged in during the community challenge. They also gave other zones away as login rewards last year with the anniversary events. There were also a bunch of posts every time that ESO+ subscribers should get extra's because they paid for something that others got for free. But that never happened either.

Yeah, ZOS has been playing fast and loose with subscribers for a while, giving away some DLCs to everyone and therefore devaluing the sub. I was one of the few that complained about it and was basically told by non-subscribers and subscribers alike to suck it up because everyone subscribes just for the craft bag anyway. Maybe if more subscribers had complained back then, rather than sucking it up, we might not be where we are today. Or maybe not. A decision maker involved in how to monetize the game believes that subscribers will suck up just about anything without a peep. The only way to say no is to vote with your wallets.

I get where you’re coming from. But I'd argue that offering some DLCs or content for free doesn’t necessarily hurt the value of a subscription—it can actually strengthen the ecosystem in the long run.

Take a real-world example: PlayStation Plus or Xbox Game Pass. Sometimes, games that subscribers paid full price for end up being offered "free" through the service later. Yeah, it’s annoying if you just bought that title, but the bigger picture is that these promotions bring in more players, reinvigorate communities, and extend a game’s life. More players = healthier game = more content down the line.

The vote with you wallet is the best thing you can do. I also said that in another thread here. If you don't find the ESO+ proposition valuable anymore, stop paying. If enough people do that they will change the price or the product. But most people seem just to complain and keep paying because they can't miss something in the subscription. So that means they still find if valuable and give the signal that everything is okay.

I am not affected since I hate subscriptions. And now that the deluxe stuff and the dungeons are part of the pass, I actually save money.

The point isn’t whether players like subscriptions. It’s that ESO+ used to be the clear, centralized premium model. Now value is being siphoned out of it and sold separately. Players who have been paying are being asked to pay again for the same content or risk losing access. Calling that a win just because you personally avoid subscriptions doesn’t make the model fair. It just means ZOS is now charging more for less while creating layers of redundant licensing.

Ragnarok0130 · April 16

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

I used to sub for a full year at a time, and have scaled it back in recent years as content has been reduced. I will probably just scale it back further to make up for the increased up front price of the season pass.

I’ve always done month to month subs in case the devs pull some shenanigans with a patch so I can cancel my sub until the issue is resolved. I like that flexibility.

FoJul · April 16

AzuraFan wrote: »

I've been a subscriber for a while now. Given what's happening (ESO+ losing more and more value over time), I'd much rather just pay for stuff outright. So I'd prefer that ESO+ go away, and things like the craft bag and furniture vault be a one-time purchase.

It feels like ESO+ is a legacy thing. As ESO's content model evolves, ZOS is trying to evolve ESO+ with it, but the result has been a devaluation of the whole sub. Which brings us to today, when subscribers have been told that if they'd like to play the new content at release, they have to buy a pass that includes content they already pay for every month through their sub. To me, that's double-dipping, and it certainly means that non-subscribers are getting more value for their money from the content pass (an expensive pass, I might add). I don't begrudge at all non-subscribers getting the dungeons. I just don't like the way subscribers are being treated.

I question why two version of the content pass weren't offered: one that includes the dungeons, and one that doesn't. Not everyone wants the dungeons, and non-subscribers who don't want them are being forced to pay for them if they want to play the new content.

For ESO+, I think it should be let go at this point, and the perks that can go into the crown store should go into the crown store. That would be the craft bag, the increased bank slots, and the furniture vault. Just sell them outright and get rid of ESO+.

Considering the game is F2P after purchasing the game, unlike other MMO's, you have to remember ESO+ used to be just a subscription to play the game. I agree, they should just drop ESO+. The only real reason anyone still has it, is for the free statues/Craft bag/Bank space.

I have played so long, I don't really need the statues or the bank space, I have several coffers in my home that store things in different categories.

While craft bag is still a good option, its not worth 15 bucks a month. The rest of the things are useless to me.

ESO+ should just go away.

spartaxoxo · April 16

I like access to the crafting bag, double furniture slots, and am looking forward to the new furnishing vault. So, for me, ESO+ is still essential. I was already paid up until 2026 when they dropped this news so I don't know how I'll feel about this again next year.

KazaiDaGod · April 18

How can it loose value? Value has not changed. I think there is a feeling of not getting more in reality is deflatting. Am I missing anything?

agelonestar · April 19

KazaiDaGod wrote: »

How can it loose value? Value has not changed. I think there is a feeling of not getting more in reality is deflatting. Am I missing anything?

Try to think of it like this:-

For years you buy a new box of wax crayons every month. You pay the same price every time, and there are 12 wax crayons in the box. You’re happy, because those 12 crayons mean you can do your colouring-in and practice your spelling and grammar.

Suddenly the company you buy wax crayons from changes the deal. Now, for the same price, you only receive 10 crayons in each new box. You can still do your colouring-in and practice your spelling and grammar, but there’s no purple, no burnt orange.

You’re paying the same amount, but you receive fewer wax crayons. The price is the same, but the VALUE of what you bought has reduced.

I hope this helps.

ADarklore · April 19

I'm still not seeing a 'significant' loss of value here. I can see why some players might see it that way, but I just don't. As they also stated, they are looking into ways of making ESO+ more valuable- they just haven't made any decisions yet (or at least haven't released the details). Either way, it's not going to impact whether or not I subscribe or not... my extra inventory space and craft bag are worth the cost in itself- and I buy a lot out of the crown store, so the extra crowns help too.

Alinhbo_Tyaka · April 19

ADarklore wrote: »

I'm still not seeing a 'significant' loss of value here. I can see why some players might see it that way, but I just don't. As they also stated, they are looking into ways of making ESO+ more valuable- they just haven't made any decisions yet (or at least haven't released the details). Either way, it's not going to impact whether or not I subscribe or not... my extra inventory space and craft bag are worth the cost in itself- and I buy a lot out of the crown store, so the extra crowns help too.

With seasons you not only get what use to be the chapter but the dungeons and DLC you use to have to purchase separately or via ESO+. This is effectively a loss of value to ESO+ due to the bundling of a full year of content rather than the old al la carte method of purchase where dungeon access added value to a subscription.

spartaxoxo · April 19

ADarklore wrote: »

I'm still not seeing a 'significant' loss of value here. I can see why some players might see it that way, but I just don't. As they also stated, they are looking into ways of making ESO+ more valuable- they just haven't made any decisions yet (or at least haven't released the details). Either way, it's not going to impact whether or not I subscribe or not... my extra inventory space and craft bag are worth the cost in itself- and I buy a lot out of the crown store, so the extra crowns help too.

The price may be the same but we gain less new content than we did in previous years.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

maboleth · April 19

Not sure what's the fuss here? For the money you do get plenty of Crowns - that alone pays a lot of the ESO+ price.

Then you get a crafting bag and lots of other increases (home furniture inc., bank inc.). Then you have all previous DLCs unlocked.

That means all stuff you didn't buy prior to Content pass, incl. all dungeons.

And you will also get a new furniture bank included.

So what's the real issue here? Unless I'm missing something big here, this to me is a nitpicking.

LadyLethalla · April 20

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

IMO, the furnishing vault shouldn't be a vault like a bank - it should work like the set armor sticker book. That way no need to create an additional storage system that is just going to further clog up the system. You simply earn items from the vault and they're unlocked, and once unlocked, you can reconstruct them using transmute gems. Simple.

And it gives housing people a reason to go out and grind dungeons, PVP, and other events to earn transmutation gems.

This is a GREAT idea. Shame ZOS didn't think of it.

agelonestar · April 20

maboleth wrote: »

Not sure what's the fuss here? For the money you do get plenty of Crowns - that alone pays a lot of the ESO+ price.

Then you get a crafting bag and lots of other increases (home furniture inc., bank inc.). Then you have all previous DLCs unlocked.

That means all stuff you didn't buy prior to Content pass, incl. all dungeons.

And you will also get a new furniture bank included.

So what's the real issue here? Unless I'm missing something big here, this to me is a nitpicking.

Yes, you’re missing the point entirely, probably wilfully as it’s really not that hard.

People bought something that was advertised as having certain benefits. Some of those benefits have been withdrawn, but the price has remained the same. Moreover, those missing benefits have been bundled elsewhere, so we have to pay for them again.

If you bought a car and it was delivered without wheels, would you be posting about how great the engine was because, hey, that’s most of the value anyway? No, thought not.