Hot Take: What If ESO Went Full One-Bar?

Darkness734 · April 14

Additionally instead of completely getting rid of bar swapping. Simply exclude it from being done in combat so you can switch your main weapon and skills used between fights.

Vaqual · April 14

No, that would be horrible for me. Combat already often feels dangerously repetitive on a 2-bar build, while 1-bar is just beyond boring. If anything, I need more slots.

Renato90085 · April 14

Vaqual wrote: »

No, that would be horrible for me. Combat already often feels dangerously repetitive on a 2-bar build, while 1-bar is just beyond boring. If anything, I need more slots.

other mmo(gw2?) really have some class in combat cant swap bar, but they class skill is other 6+bar skill...

BXR_Lonestar · April 14

This is a big "PASS" for me. As In this would limit play too much to be viable. As someone who plays healer and tank more often than DPS, I can tell you right now there would be way too much missing from our kits if we went strictly to 1 bar for everything.

I'm not defending the bar swap game play "mechanic." I absolutely hate how it works in this game. But unless they give us permanent "passive" slots and more skills that we just equip for passives, and then turned around and did a lot of reworking of class kits and abilities, this is just not viable.

I'd rather them take a look at the bar swap mechanics and figure out a better way to make them work mechanically, and let people CHOOSE to play 1 bar or not via the oakensoul. There is give-take with making the choice to 1 bar vs. 2 bar at least.

QB1 · April 14

Darkness734 wrote: »

Two bars are actually really off putting to me. I hate it. The thought of having to constantly switch weapons is dumb. I wholly agree with op, we should only have one bar. Maybe add two extra skill slots and add more passives for each skill line to make up for the no two bars.

Glad to hear you agree! I hear the same from a lot of my friends, that bar swapping just feels clunky and unintuitive. Like you said, having to constantly switch weapons just feels kind of silly. But I really like your idea of adding a couple extra skill slots or more passives to help round out builds.

Soarora · April 14

Darkness734 wrote: »

Additionally instead of completely getting rid of bar swapping. Simply exclude it from being done in combat so you can switch your main weapon and skills used between fights.

That is Guild Wars 2. Not sure if ESO can do that since GW2 already does. But with only one bar there’s still so much you can do with it in that game like how your class skills are essentially not on your bar, only weapon skills. And a lot of the weapon skills can be pressed more than once for different effects. I play Elementalist and it’s a lot of quickly pressing buttons even with one bar. ESO doesn’t have any of that. GW2 also does not have required skills like ESO does— tanks don’t even need to slot a taunt because I think aggro is based on amount of armor.

QB1 · April 14

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

This is a big "PASS" for me. As In this would limit play too much to be viable. As someone who plays healer and tank more often than DPS, I can tell you right now there would be way too much missing from our kits if we went strictly to 1 bar for everything.

I'm not defending the bar swap game play "mechanic." I absolutely hate how it works in this game. But unless they give us permanent "passive" slots and more skills that we just equip for passives, and then turned around and did a lot of reworking of class kits and abilities, this is just not viable.

I'd rather them take a look at the bar swap mechanics and figure out a better way to make them work mechanically, and let people CHOOSE to play 1 bar or not via the oakensoul. There is give-take with making the choice to 1 bar vs. 2 bar at least.

Idk I think that's part of the tradeoff we're talking about -- one bar pushes for new, more defined roles instead of what we have now where tanks can also heal and buff, healers buff and dps, etc.

I do like your idea about the passive skill slots, and another commenter mentioned maybe giving us another two active skills as well. I think those things could definitely be a way forward and it would help maintain flexibility without forcing players into the constant barswapping.

But overall, I do agree that at the very least ZOS needs to take a look at the bar swap mechanic.

Major_Toughness · April 15

The game would fail to exist.

The only appealing thing for this game is the combat, which they destroy patch after patch for the past almost 3 years.

And the player base has suffered immensely.

QB1 · April 15

Major_Toughness wrote: »

The game would fail to exist.

The only appealing thing for this game is the combat, which they destroy patch after patch for the past almost 3 years.

And the player base has suffered immensely.

Yeah, that's not dramatic at all....

The game would be fine. Speaking of the game, the only thing appealing is the combat? I guess no one finds the lore, exploration, customization, or social aspects appealing. Overall I agree that the action combat in ESO is great, probably is the best in any MMO. But there's a big part of the community that finds the constant bar swapping to be kind of silly.

ViggyBoi · April 15

Compromise, everyone who thinks that dual bar management is too complicated can unslot their back bar weapon and unbind the bar swap key that way they dont have to interact with it.

QB1 · April 15

ViggyBoi wrote: »

Compromise, everyone who thinks that dual bar management is too complicated can unslot their back bar weapon and unbind the bar swap key that way they dont have to interact with it.

No one is saying that two-bar management is too complicated. It's more about whether it's fun or necessary in the current direction of the game. Most players can handle bar swapping just fine, but that doesn’t mean it’s an ideal system. It's about reducing the clunkiness we experience when constantly flipping between bars just to access basic functionality.

colossalvoids · April 15

Having two bars, personally, is way more fun and better defines identity than locking yourself into just one. Luckily, one bar gameplay do exist already and you can already participate in what you find appealing while others are enjoying things as they currently implemented. Cancelling out other people's opinions for personal anecdotes isn't the best strategy to get people to side with you, especially on such a topic. People usually do like being heard and don't like being shut down or having their words twisted to fit someone else's narrative, just saying.

QB1 · April 15

colossalvoids wrote: »

Having two bars, personally, is way more fun and better defines identity than locking yourself into just one. Luckily, one bar gameplay do exist already and you can already participate in what you find appealing while others are enjoying things as they currently implemented. Cancelling out other people's opinions for personal anecdotes isn't the best strategy to get people to side with you, especially on such a topic. People usually do like being heard and don't like being shut down or having their words twisted to fit someone else's narrative, just saying.

That's great that you prefer two bars, like I said in previous comments, I'm sure a lot of the community feels that way. Not shutting anyone down, twisting words, or trying to get people to side with me. That's not the point.

This post is about two bar builds often feeling bloated and redundant, and one bar builds feeling cleaner and more focused, and why a move to one-bar across the board could be a good thing for the game.

You’re absolutely entitled to prefer two bars, but I think it’s fair for me (and others) to voice concerns about a system that often feels more like a legacy feature than a compelling design choice.

Major_Toughness · April 15

QB1 wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

The game would fail to exist.

The only appealing thing for this game is the combat, which they destroy patch after patch for the past almost 3 years.

And the player base has suffered immensely.

Yeah, that's not dramatic at all....

The game would be fine. Speaking of the game, the only thing appealing is the combat? I guess no one finds the lore, exploration, customization, or social aspects appealing. Overall I agree that the action combat in ESO is great, probably is the best in any MMO. But there's a big part of the community that finds the constant bar swapping to be kind of silly.

Customisation as in builds/theorycrafting or outfits, yes.
Rest, no.

Major_Toughness · April 15

QB1 wrote: »

ViggyBoi wrote: »

Compromise, everyone who thinks that dual bar management is too complicated can unslot their back bar weapon and unbind the bar swap key that way they dont have to interact with it.

No one is saying that two-bar management is too complicated. It's more about whether it's fun or necessary in the current direction of the game. Most players can handle bar swapping just fine, but that doesn’t mean it’s an ideal system. It's about reducing the clunkiness we experience when constantly flipping between bars just to access basic functionality.

I bet a majority of one-bar users, especially vocal ones, think or have said that two-bar management is too complicated for them.

Nord_Raseri · April 15

**** No.

Wereswan · April 15

One of my alts is a double-pet Sorc. Since pets have to be dual-barred, that leaves a grand total of six (6) open slots.

That already feels painfully cramped. I can't imagine cutting it down further.

In short, nope!

TheImperfect · April 16

Definitely not for me. I haven't even tried Oakensoul yet as it just doesn't appeal to me. I think bar swapping makes the game more unique and fun to play and adds a level of challenge.

QB1 · April 16

Major_Toughness wrote: »

QB1 wrote: »

ViggyBoi wrote: »

Compromise, everyone who thinks that dual bar management is too complicated can unslot their back bar weapon and unbind the bar swap key that way they dont have to interact with it.

No one is saying that two-bar management is too complicated. It's more about whether it's fun or necessary in the current direction of the game. Most players can handle bar swapping just fine, but that doesn’t mean it’s an ideal system. It's about reducing the clunkiness we experience when constantly flipping between bars just to access basic functionality.

I bet a majority of one-bar users, especially vocal ones, think or have said that two-bar management is too complicated for them.

I don't think it's the majority of one bar users. Not even close, actually. But obviously there are people who have disabilities or who have issues with their hands which makes constant bar swapping difficult. A lot of us running one bar feel like the two-bar system leads to unnecessary bloat and redundancy, and let's players do everything all at once. It's totally fine if others enjoy it! But I think it's fair to question if it's still the best design choice long-term.

QB1 · April 16

Wereswan wrote: »

One of my alts is a double-pet Sorc. Since pets have to be dual-barred, that leaves a grand total of six (6) open slots.

That already feels painfully cramped. I can't imagine cutting it down further.

In short, nope!

Curious, what do you use for your other six skills?

QB1 · April 16

TheImperfect wrote: »

Definitely not for me. I haven't even tried Oakensoul yet as it just doesn't appeal to me. I think bar swapping makes the game more unique and fun to play and adds a level of challenge.

That’s valid. If bar swapping adds fun and challenge for you, I respect that. It looks like a lot of people agree with you! But I know there are a lot of us that feel one-bar builds are more refined and less about cramming as many skills as possible on your bar.

With the current system, players can literally do everything. In PvE, you have healers healing, buffing, and dpsing. You have dps dpsing, buffing, and sometimes healing. You have tanks taunting, buffing, and healing too. In PvP, you’ve got immortal god builds able to deal huge damage, self-heal, shield, buff, and sustain it all for long periods.

Again, it's cool if you guys like things how they are. But I think it’s worth having a conversation about whether the current two-bar system is actually helping or hurting the game. Consolidating to one bar could help define roles and identity more clearly, create tighter and more meaningful choices, and move away from the do-everything builds. Obviously I know it wouldn't be for everyone, but I think it’s a direction worth exploring. That's all

BXR_Lonestar · April 16

QB1 wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

This is a big "PASS" for me. As In this would limit play too much to be viable. As someone who plays healer and tank more often than DPS, I can tell you right now there would be way too much missing from our kits if we went strictly to 1 bar for everything.

I'm not defending the bar swap game play "mechanic." I absolutely hate how it works in this game. But unless they give us permanent "passive" slots and more skills that we just equip for passives, and then turned around and did a lot of reworking of class kits and abilities, this is just not viable.

I'd rather them take a look at the bar swap mechanics and figure out a better way to make them work mechanically, and let people CHOOSE to play 1 bar or not via the oakensoul. There is give-take with making the choice to 1 bar vs. 2 bar at least.

Idk I think that's part of the tradeoff we're talking about -- one bar pushes for new, more defined roles instead of what we have now where tanks can also heal and buff, healers buff and dps, etc.

I do like your idea about the passive skill slots, and another commenter mentioned maybe giving us another two active skills as well. I think those things could definitely be a way forward and it would help maintain flexibility without forcing players into the constant barswapping.

But overall, I do agree that at the very least ZOS needs to take a look at the bar swap mechanic.

I don't think forcing players to 1 bar forces them into a more defined role at all. Tanks in high-end content often have to pull trash mobs or a sub-boss away from the group to prevent bad things from happening, meaning they're far away from where they can get healed. Without a tank's ability to heal itself, you would end up with a dead tank every time and the encounter would be impossible to pass. As for tanks healing a group? If a tank can do that (it takes certain builds to be able to provide adequate healing as a tank) more power to them. I see that as more of a class identity issue than anything. A DK tank is not going to be healing a 1T/3dd dungeon group. A templar tank could, but you sacrifice certain things that the DK tank could do. So even then, there is give/take.

For bar swap mechanics, I'd really like them to rework the combat system so that light attacks just happen automatically, freeing up the ability to Hold/release the RT (currently used for light/heavy attacks) to bar swap from front bar to back bar. ALL games that I have played that have used this mechanic function better using this bar swap system vs. the D-Pad bar swap. But something has to give - either the light attack/heavy attack system or the block system.

QB1 · April 16

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

QB1 wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

This is a big "PASS" for me. As In this would limit play too much to be viable. As someone who plays healer and tank more often than DPS, I can tell you right now there would be way too much missing from our kits if we went strictly to 1 bar for everything.

I'm not defending the bar swap game play "mechanic." I absolutely hate how it works in this game. But unless they give us permanent "passive" slots and more skills that we just equip for passives, and then turned around and did a lot of reworking of class kits and abilities, this is just not viable.

I'd rather them take a look at the bar swap mechanics and figure out a better way to make them work mechanically, and let people CHOOSE to play 1 bar or not via the oakensoul. There is give-take with making the choice to 1 bar vs. 2 bar at least.

Idk I think that's part of the tradeoff we're talking about -- one bar pushes for new, more defined roles instead of what we have now where tanks can also heal and buff, healers buff and dps, etc.

I do like your idea about the passive skill slots, and another commenter mentioned maybe giving us another two active skills as well. I think those things could definitely be a way forward and it would help maintain flexibility without forcing players into the constant barswapping.

But overall, I do agree that at the very least ZOS needs to take a look at the bar swap mechanic.

I don't think forcing players to 1 bar forces them into a more defined role at all. Tanks in high-end content often have to pull trash mobs or a sub-boss away from the group to prevent bad things from happening, meaning they're far away from where they can get healed. Without a tank's ability to heal itself, you would end up with a dead tank every time and the encounter would be impossible to pass. As for tanks healing a group? If a tank can do that (it takes certain builds to be able to provide adequate healing as a tank) more power to them. I see that as more of a class identity issue than anything. A DK tank is not going to be healing a 1T/3dd dungeon group. A templar tank could, but you sacrifice certain things that the DK tank could do. So even then, there is give/take.

For bar swap mechanics, I'd really like them to rework the combat system so that light attacks just happen automatically, freeing up the ability to Hold/release the RT (currently used for light/heavy attacks) to bar swap from front bar to back bar. ALL games that I have played that have used this mechanic function better using this bar swap system vs. the D-Pad bar swap. But something has to give - either the light attack/heavy attack system or the block system.

I really like your idea about rethinking bar swap input entirely. Making bar swapping more intuitive could be a great middle ground if full one-bar isn’t the move. Personally, I’d still prefer one bar with some added skill/passive options to enhance depth, but your suggestion would at least make the current setup feel a lot smoother and less clunky.

Artim_X · April 16

My lightning sorcerer only works thematically with all the storm calling skills, majority of the destruction staff skills, and two scribed skills so IMHO making one-bar the only playstyle would really grind my gears.

I also play 5 different one-bar builds: pet sorcerer, aedric spear templar, herald of the tome arcanist, a pure bow sorcerer, and a shadow focused nightblade.

If someone cannot or does not want to play a two-bar build, then it is up to them and them alone to create a one-bar build that works for their playstyle. There is nothing stopping players from making one-bar builds that are viable.

Wereswan · April 16

QB1 wrote: »

Wereswan wrote: »

One of my alts is a double-pet Sorc. Since pets have to be dual-barred, that leaves a grand total of six (6) open slots.

That already feels painfully cramped. I can't imagine cutting it down further.

In short, nope!

Curious, what do you use for your other six skills?

Honestly, I don't enjoy playing it because it feels so limited, so it's currently just an eclectic mix of whatever I'm trying to level up to 4. Daedric Prey is basically a given, though, since so much of a two-pet build's damage comes from the pets.

Edit to add: I do kind of like the idea of her as an aristocratic sort of character who finds actual brawling with the NPCs beneath her. "I'm not going to fight you; Flaps and Snarls are going to do that."

mdjessup4906 · April 16

As a dps I dont think I'd care one bar or not, but as a tank that would be miserable. I know a few oaken/one bar tanks idk how they stand it.

Soarora · April 16

mdjessup4906 wrote: »

As a dps I dont think I'd care one bar or not, but as a tank that would be miserable. I know a few oaken/one bar tanks idk how they stand it.

To be honest I’ve never trusted the idea of an oakentank. Some classes (like cro) have just too many good skills to slot on 2 bars let alone 1. They’re very likely missing (de-)buffs…

moo_2021 · April 16

Vaqual wrote: »

No, that would be horrible for me. Combat already often feels dangerously repetitive on a 2-bar build, while 1-bar is just beyond boring. If anything, I need more slots.

maintaining buffs is repetitive. If we don't have to do that, backbar can be freed to slot useful skills, and the combat could be much more dynamic. And one-bar wouldn't need to exist as a restriction for having free buffs.

QB1 · April 17

Artim_X wrote: »

My lightning sorcerer only works thematically with all the storm calling skills, majority of the destruction staff skills, and two scribed skills so IMHO making one-bar the only playstyle would really grind my gears.

I also play 5 different one-bar builds: pet sorcerer, aedric spear templar, herald of the tome arcanist, a pure bow sorcerer, and a shadow focused nightblade.

If someone cannot or does not want to play a two-bar build, then it is up to them and them alone to create a one-bar build that works for their playstyle. There is nothing stopping players from making one-bar builds that are viable.

Love all those builds!! But I think you could work your lightning sorc work on one bar as well

I have one too lol

And yeah, I know there's nothing’s stopping players from choosing one-bar setups today, I have 12 of them, all changed from two bar to one. But they're never going to be close to the top two-bar PvE and PvP builds.

That said, the idea I'm exploring isn't just about making one-bar viable, it's about imagining what the game could look like if everyone played with one bar. Maybe that means adding a couple more skills to our bar. I know not everyone would love it, but based on the reasons I list in the original post, I believe it could be good for the game.

QB1 · April 17

Wereswan wrote: »

QB1 wrote: »

Wereswan wrote: »

One of my alts is a double-pet Sorc. Since pets have to be dual-barred, that leaves a grand total of six (6) open slots.

That already feels painfully cramped. I can't imagine cutting it down further.

In short, nope!

Curious, what do you use for your other six skills?

Honestly, I don't enjoy playing it because it feels so limited, so it's currently just an eclectic mix of whatever I'm trying to level up to 4. Daedric Prey is basically a given, though, since so much of a two-pet build's damage comes from the pets.

Edit to add: I do kind of like the idea of her as an aristocratic sort of character who finds actual brawling with the NPCs beneath her. "I'm not going to fight you; Flaps and Snarls are going to do that."

Haha I love the RP angle for the build, Flaps and Snarls is amazing

That said, you're saying you have six open slots (one of them being the obvious Daedric Prey) and then the rest you just mix whatever? So depending on what content you're playing, the rest of those skills are going to be buffs, heals, dots, shields, etc, all skills everyone else is likely using as well to fill their bars.

My argument is players shouldn't be able to do all of that. Your pet sorc should be five pets and an ultimate, or maybe they could up the number of active skills to 7 or something. Seven skills and an ultimate. Again, I know not everyone would love it. But I think it would be better for the game.