Best 'Base' Class for Subclassing

ADarklore · April 13

What are people's thoughts on which class offers the best starting point for subclassing? As in, which will offer the most combinations. I'm not talking competitive or Endgame, I'm talking about FUN subclass ideas. I don't want to have to use alts anymore and have ONE dedicated character/class that I can get the most bang for the buck out of long-term.

Personally, I'm torn. I was heavily leading into Warden- albeit I hate Warden as a stand alone class, but I also love pets. So having the bear available with all subclasses seems like a good option. Plus, I love playing an ice mage- and being able to drop the bear and pick up Arcanist and Necro for their frost skills and beneficial passives, seems like a win. The downside is, when I don't want to have the bear nor play ice mage- then Warden is a wasted choice.

Arcanist has great passives and the beam is always fun... and would work well with Templar... but if I get tired of the beam, then it's a wasted choice.

See the dilemma? Trying to find that "Yes, I will always use this skill for every subclass build" to figure out my base class.

Ideas and thoughts?

danko355 · April 13

I think that’s a wrong perspective to look at this problem. You like warden and prefer to keep the bear? Well, you could always pick any class and use this one warden’s sub-tree with the bear, problem solved. I think, the best base class should not be the one having the best sub-tree, but actually the one where you would want to keep 2 (or even 3) subtrees for some particular builds, since this is the only important limitation.
With this in mind, and my PVP preferences, I’m thinking about a nightblade (assassination is one of the best damage trees, and shadow/siphoning are also good for utilities), or a sorcerer with daedric summoning + lighting trees, to keep shield + streak combo.

ForumBully · April 13

Since you're locked into one class skill line, I guess "the best" starting class is whatever class owns your favorite skill tree of the entire game. You're going to have to have one from the class itself, so might as well start there. Beyond that there isn't a best....unless you also have a favorite class specific sets that you plan to use

ADarklore · April 13

See, that's the problem. I'm not tied to any ONE skill... yet, as I put different ideas down on paper, Warden seems to be the one I can find with the most possibilities; either using the bear or without. Since the passives and skills from other class lines will work as if they are our main class- even a Warden-Sorc could have great potential; I'm thinking the bear's damage with Daedric Prey.

When I look at other classes and try to write down various combinations, I'm not coming up with as many as I do with a Warden combination.

ForumBully · April 13

ADarklore wrote: »

See, that's the problem. I'm not tied to any ONE skill... yet, as I put different ideas down on paper, Warden seems to be the one I can find with the most possibilities; either using the bear or without. Since the passives and skills from other class lines will work as if they are our main class- even a Warden-Sorc could have great potential; I'm thinking the bear's damage with Daedric Prey.

When I look at other classes and try to write down various combinations, I'm not coming up with as many as I do with a Warden combination.

I'm confused by your confusion. What would you say the difference is between a Sorc using a Warden skill line and a Warden using a Sorc skill line? The only relevant passives are the ones within the skill line you use

ADarklore · April 13

No difference at all. Except, you have to keep at least one of the main class skill lines permanently. Thus, you can only 'subclass' with two other classes total. So when you subclass, you are going to have at least one of your main class skill lines in your build... you don't necessarily even have to use it, but it will be taking up one of available your class lines.

Thus, if you are a Warden, but don't enjoy playing Warden, you're stuck with at least one of their class lines permanently. Therefore, choosing a base class that you enjoy but want to mix with other subclasses, is the best route. Personally, I've never enjoyed DK, no matter how many times I've tried to play it... so it would be a complete waste for me to choose DK as a base class- since I don't enjoy any of the skill lines. With Arcanist, I enjoy the Arcanist, but will I use the beam in all my builds? Are their other skills in the Arcanist line that I would use or miss... no. So for me choosing an Arcanist as a base class would be a waste, since I can just pick it as a subclass if I want to use the beam in a build.

As for Warden, I don't really enjoy the base class as a whole... I like the bear and I like the ice mage side. So at least it offers two things that I could utilize in any build and would be cheaper because of 1 skill point versus 2 skill points for subclasses.

That's part of my point. Picking a base class that you'd use more of, which will cost less SP's in the long run.

As for Warden-Sorc... I didn't include a third option because there are many that could blend well; Warden-Sorc-Arc, Warden-Sorc-Templar, etc.

fizzybeef · April 13

ADarklore wrote: »

What are people's thoughts on which class offers the best starting point for subclassing? As in, which will offer the most combinations. I'm not talking competitive or Endgame, I'm talking about FUN subclass ideas. I don't want to have to use alts anymore and have ONE dedicated character/class that I can get the most bang for the buck out of long-term.

Personally, I'm torn. I was heavily leading into Warden- albeit I hate Warden as a stand alone class, but I also love pets. So having the bear available with all subclasses seems like a good option. Plus, I love playing an ice mage- and being able to drop the bear and pick up Arcanist and Necro for their frost skills and beneficial passives, seems like a win. The downside is, when I don't want to have the bear nor play ice mage- then Warden is a wasted choice.

Arcanist has great passives and the beam is always fun... and would work well with Templar... but if I get tired of the beam, then it's a wasted choice.

See the dilemma? Trying to find that "Yes, I will always use this skill for every subclass build" to figure out my base class.

Ideas and thoughts?

Alone the question for the best class for subclassing is proving already that the class diversity will be completely gone, if this goes live. Everyone will be running the same and just slap the best in slot skills on it.

Dont bring this live please.

said no one ever · April 13

a templar warden sorc seems like a slam dunk

or a nightblade warden templar

or a sorc warden nightblade

ForumBully · April 13

ADarklore wrote: »

See, that's the problem. I'm not tied to any ONE skill... yet, as I put different ideas down on paper, Warden seems to be the one I can find with the most possibilities; either using the bear or without. Since the passives and skills from other class lines will work as if they are our main class- even a Warden-Sorc could have great potential; I'm thinking the bear's damage with Daedric Prey.

When I look at other classes and try to write down various combinations, I'm not coming up with as many as I do with a Warden combination.

Ah. Well, IMO, Sorcerers Storm Calling is one of the best branches and one that just about every other class will want. It's got Major Buffs on skills that are good in their own right and it has Bolt Escape, which is pretty much the mobility envy of every class.

said no one ever · April 13

i just hope it means an end to the bouncy in my face 1st person view arcanist heal in favor of something not so obtrusive

ADarklore · April 13

said no one ever wrote: »

a templar warden sorc seems like a slam dunk

or a nightblade warden templar

or a sorc warden nightblade

Yes! Those are exactly some of the build possibilities that I've written down with Warden base class.

It's funny how you have people freaking out about class diversity, when in fact, this has been a problem with EVERY MMO. However, the fact is, those people who homogenize and only seek BiS are a small percentage of players- and ZOS knows this. They have the numbers. They know which players are playing which content, which players playing specific content have left, and which ones are still here and the content they play. They are obviously going to gear their decisions based on the majority and especially the majority who are paying $$ in the game. They seem to have made a huge push to bring players back, and with subclassing, they seem to have a target audience in mind... and for myself, this is the only reason I'd return to ESO, and I know I'm not alone.

sarahthes · April 13

For endgame DPS, it will most likely be arcanist or necro because they both use their class banners. Necro also uses one of their IA class sets.

freespirit · April 13

Thinking about this off the top of my head for the first time......

I have a one bar HA pet Sorc....... I think I might keep the pets and Daedric Prey, add Arcanist beam, Templar beam and swap the Atro Ulti for the Bear, just because I could!

Makes no sense but it might be fun!!

Dagoth_Rac · April 14

freespirit wrote: »

Thinking about this off the top of my head for the first time......

I have a one bar HA pet Sorc....... I think I might keep the pets and Daedric Prey, add Arcanist beam, Templar beam and swap the Atro Ulti for the Bear, just because I could!

Makes no sense but it might be fun!!

That is 4 skill lines (Daedric Summoning, Herald of the Tome, Dawn's Wrath, Animal Companions), so you would not be able to do that. You get 3 class skill lines and at least one must be from your base class.

freespirit · April 14

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

freespirit wrote: »

Thinking about this off the top of my head for the first time......

I have a one bar HA pet Sorc....... I think I might keep the pets and Daedric Prey, add Arcanist beam, Templar beam and swap the Atro Ulti for the Bear, just because I could!

Makes no sense but it might be fun!!

That is 4 skill lines (Daedric Summoning, Herald of the Tome, Dawn's Wrath, Animal Companions), so you would not be able to do that. You get 3 class skill lines and at least one must be from your base class.

Ok forget the bear! 😂

Elvenheart · April 14

I think for practical reasons when choosing the base class, one should keep in mind the IA sets stay matched with your base class, as well as the class mastery skill, so those two things should factor into your base class choice, especially if you want a one character fits all solution.

Me, I have 11 max level characters, and I’ll be changing a few of them around to try out skill lines that replace skill lines I don’t use, but some of them will be staying the way they are because they’re happy that way.

I’m actually thinking of starting a 12th character, something I normally wouldn’t have done until a new class had come out because I rarely double up on characters. I have a few times for character concept reasons or the have one magicka and one stamina of the same class.

gc0018 · April 14

Doesn't matter, changing two skill line means changing anything. Every class have at least one decent skill line. Unless the swapping reduced to one skillline, we should discuss about it.

Barovia87 · April 14

Just a couple months ago I was telling my partner that, in a way, you could build a really cool "Mummy" themed character around the Warden chassis, since so many of their skills are tied to vermin, beetles (Re: shalks), etc, and that element seems so Mummy-movie classic to me.

Personally, I'm most excited to expand on that idea by just... blending Warden with Necromancer! Or Necromancer with Warden! I don't know yet! But I'm curious and low-key excited to try it - cosmetically and mechanically.

Lylith · April 14

freespirit wrote: »

Thinking about this off the top of my head for the first time......

I have a one bar HA pet Sorc....... I think I might keep the pets and Daedric Prey, add Arcanist beam, Templar beam and swap the Atro Ulti for the Bear, just because I could!

Makes no sense but it might be fun!!

i have a one bar, ha sorc with no pets and the only sorc skill i use is the atronach ult.

that may make for an interesting 2 bar base.

said no one ever · April 14

the real issue is if you sub class there's no going back? You can save your base character in the armory and experiment with subclassing and save that on a diff armory slot and still have your base toon saved on the other slot to start over if your subclassing experiment didnt work out?

ADarklore · April 14

From my understanding armory will work fully with Subclassing... so if you have multiple armories, you can just switch whenever you want.

Funny, people calling my post 'click bait' when I was being quite serious. With all the vitriol going back and forth about subclassing, I see few posts dedicated to subclassing ideas. Obviously with PTS, we'll get more info... but for me, this has nothing to do with 'BiS' because I honestly HATE meta chasing and only play to have FUN, could care less about competition or, honestly, what anyone else thinks about my build.

I like that some people have been throwing out ideas... and that's a big reason for the post. I mean, like Warden-Sorc-Arc; the bear using Daedric prey, Scamp, hardened shield and magick green beam. Or even just simplifying it down- Warden-Arc-Arc (an Arcanist with a bear). Or Warden-Sorc-Templar... perhaps making an Argonian named "Jabs-with-Shield".

I'm really liking the idea of Warden-Arc-Necro tho... dropping the bear but becoming an uber Ice Mage. So many possibilities that could be cool.

Urzigurumash · April 14

Barovia87 wrote: »

Just a couple months ago I was telling my partner that, in a way, you could build a really cool "Mummy" themed character around the Warden chassis, since so many of their skills are tied to vermin, beetles (Re: shalks), etc, and that element seems so Mummy-movie classic to me.

Personally, I'm most excited to expand on that idea by just... blending Warden with Necromancer! Or Necromancer with Warden! I don't know yet! But I'm curious and low-key excited to try it - cosmetically and mechanically.

Wow brilliant, I've suggested we get a Mummy subclass before and Necroden was my first thought upon hearing this news. I've got the costume and the horsey too.

Yudo · April 14

I think there will be multiple correct answers for A/B/C builds. It only really matters when you want:

2 skill lines from the same class
class sets
class script for scribing
class skill styles

amiiegee · April 14

WhiteScythe wrote: »

[snip]

This is how it will end, everyone playing the same class with the same skill and if not you will be not allowed to join certain group content, how it is in trials already with meta sets. Play how you want? Maybe in solo content, aside of that you will have to stick with the meta.

[edited to remove quote]

ADarklore · April 14

amiiegee wrote: »

WhiteScythe wrote: »

[snip]

This is how it will end, everyone playing the same class with the same skill and if not you will be not allowed to join certain group content, how it is in trials already with meta sets. Play how you want? Maybe in solo content, aside of that you will have to stick with the meta.

So then you're saying that nothing is changing. Because that's how it is already, that's how it always will be, no matter what changes ZOS implements.

[edited to remove quote]

ZOS_Icy · April 14

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

The Elder Scrolls Online Team

ADarklore · May 3

Resurrecting my original post as I've seen further commentary in other posts regarding 'why even choose a base class' and the answer is simple- because you cannot have more than one skill line from another class with subclassing. IMO, Templar is the best choice for base class because it has beneficial skills in all three of it's skill lines. When I first heard of subclassing, I thought, "My Arcanist would be great if I had two Templar skill lines... but then they clarified that you can only have ONE skill line per subclassed class. Thus, if I want that original Arc-Tem-Tem, I have to have a Templar base class.

I've thought about all the variations, and in almost all of them I could use at least one Templar skill line. Yet, when I think of other classes, there aren't any that I'd really like to have two of their lines. Sure, being an Ice Mage with both Ice and Bear skill lines would be great... but... thanks to companions, I can do without the bear.

So there really is a lot of thought for 'which base class is best' because it does impact your subclassing combinations and options. As others have stated, 'just play alts' but that's what I'm trying to get away from. I have 18 of them... I want to have just ONE that I can play the entire game with... and having a base class with the most versatility is what I'm looking for.

Take Arcanist, I don't see a whole lot of versatility there- because the tank and healer lines are really lackluster when compared to all the other classes. So that pretty much leaves the DPS line- but this also requires using the crux mechanic- so you have to slot at least two Arcanist skills. Other classes don't have this limitation/requirement, thankfully. As much as I like my Arcanist, it really is a limited base class for subclassing... unless you really love playing Arcanist skills.

So when people say, 'why even choose a base class'... this is why.

sans-culottes · May 3

ADarklore wrote: »

Resurrecting my original post as I've seen further commentary in other posts regarding 'why even choose a base class' and the answer is simple- because you cannot have more than one skill line from another class with subclassing. IMO, Templar is the best choice for base class because it has beneficial skills in all three of it's skill lines. When I first heard of subclassing, I thought, "My Arcanist would be great if I had two Templar skill lines... but then they clarified that you can only have ONE skill line per subclassed class. Thus, if I want that original Arc-Tem-Tem, I have to have a Templar base class.

I've thought about all the variations, and in almost all of them I could use at least one Templar skill line. Yet, when I think of other classes, there aren't any that I'd really like to have two of their lines. Sure, being an Ice Mage with both Ice and Bear skill lines would be great... but... thanks to companions, I can do without the bear.

So there really is a lot of thought for 'which base class is best' because it does impact your subclassing combinations and options. As others have stated, 'just play alts' but that's what I'm trying to get away from. I have 18 of them... I want to have just ONE that I can play the entire game with... and having a base class with the most versatility is what I'm looking for.

Take Arcanist, I don't see a whole lot of versatility there- because the tank and healer lines are really lackluster when compared to all the other classes. So that pretty much leaves the DPS line- but this also requires using the crux mechanic- so you have to slot at least two Arcanist skills. Other classes don't have this limitation/requirement, thankfully. As much as I like my Arcanist, it really is a limited base class for subclassing... unless you really love playing Arcanist skills.

So when people say, 'why even choose a base class'... this is why.

This post unintentionally illustrates the exact tension so many of us have raised: the thematic incoherence subclassing brings.

What begins as a fantasy—crafting a hybrid Arc-Tem-Tem build—quickly unravels into a spreadsheet logic puzzle. What base class grants the highest synergy? What subclass pairings allow for the most throughput? What once was a character with identity becomes an optimization shell. It’s less “role-playing” than min-max cartography.

You admit as much when you call Arcanist a limited base class unless you “really love playing Arcanist skills.” That should be disqualifying. A class should not require an asterisk. Yet subclassing dilutes each class’s meaning to such an extent that one picks a base not for fantasy, theme, or cohesion, but because it permits a favorable configuration matrix.

AngryNecro · May 3

when building "basic" builds, the NB shadow branch will be the most advantageous for a larger number of classes because it has buffs working from the back panel, small buffs of sustain, speed, and an additional hill timeout in the track (NB should play from the track and not from the cloak), +15% sustane and the ability to free up a slot with buffs resists. So on my base necro bild i change 2d line to shadows, on templar i think 3d.
Second good wariant on necro i think its warden snow line to 2d necro line. Good ultimate what sinergy with necro passive from 1t line, +8% damage, resist and strong heall.
I think dk stay good in original.
Sorc I'm not examining because it's a class for cowards. but max damage buff its sorc + warden snow + 1t templar line.
But I will definitely build two assemblies of extremes. 3 dd branches (templar+ warden + NB/templar+ warden + necro/NB+warden+necro) with the transfer of heall skill to general skills. And multi crosshill+sustane (necro + warden + NB)
3d (heall) line on necro is warry strong in heall and sustane with sinergy with 2d NB line.
and corse i make NB - Necro with 1,2d NB line and 1t necro line. and its was be most horible BG bomber. all damage buff all damage debuff, sustane, crit, boom skeleton, speed, cross heall. its be warry strong thing. but need think about berst heall.

Elowen_Starveil · May 3

I think there's sort of a "right" answer here, and it's NOT the original 4 classes. According to a lot of people commenting since subclassing was announced, the 3 additional classes that have been added since the game was launched (warden, necromancer, and arcanist) have their 3 class skill lines roughly separated into DPS, tanking, and healing. I don't know how true that is, since I have never really thought about it that hard. But it would seem that this would make those 3 classes the best options for a "base" class to work from in subclassing, since you could choose a straightforward base skill line to work from, depending on what you were setting it up for. In my mind, Arcanist is going to rule over all, once again, like their superiority in DPS currently.

Elvenheart · May 4

I have started a new character for Subclassing to make some form of an elementalist-style build with, and I may have jumped the gun by using a sorcerer as the base class when either dragonknight or warden may have been better - dk in case the flame and earth base skill lines would work better, or warden because the next IA set might be something good for the frost line. I guess we’ll see!