Best 'Base' Class for Subclassing

ADarklore

sans-culottes wrote: »

This post unintentionally illustrates the exact tension so many of us have raised: the thematic incoherence subclassing brings.

What begins as a fantasy—crafting a hybrid Arc-Tem-Tem build—quickly unravels into a spreadsheet logic puzzle. What base class grants the highest synergy? What subclass pairings allow for the most throughput? What once was a character with identity becomes an optimization shell. It’s less “role-playing” than min-max cartography.

You admit as much when you call Arcanist a limited base class unless you “really love playing Arcanist skills.” That should be disqualifying. A class should not require an asterisk. Yet subclassing dilutes each class’s meaning to such an extent that one picks a base not for fantasy, theme, or cohesion, but because it permits a favorable configuration matrix.

I disagree. I think it shows the plethora of OPTIONS that are going to be available, but choosing a base class based on how a player personally wants to play. My post has nothing to do with min-maxing and honestly trying to find the best role-play options for how "I" play the game- and looking for others to share their views as well.

I could care less about 'class meaning' and care more about OPTIONS to decrease boredom for having played a game for 10 years now- give or take a few months here and there. That's the problem with ESO for so many players- boredom due to nothing ever changing. Warden, Necromancer and Arcanist became the 'newest shiny' that brought players back- but then it didn't last because of the boredom setting in- same class, same skills, same same same. Now, with subclassing, there are so many options- some obviously better than others depending on the content you run- but overall, it'll make playing the game so much better for a lot of players- especially those who just want to play solo and do their own thing while designing their classes to their playstyle.

Now, back to my last post... I have decided against Templar because I found Nightblade to be a better all-around choice for ME given how I like to play. As someone posted above about the benefits of Nightblade skill lines. For me, it has nothing to do with the Assassination skill line, and everything to do with Siphoning Strikes- arguably the best sustain skill in the game. Then, when I'm tired of constant combat, I can throw on Shadowy Disguise and just get to quest objective faster, or when I'm doing Thieves Guild or DB. Even though I don't enjoy Nightblade per se, I WILL enjoy the benefits the skill lines do have to offer when mixed with other class DPS lines like Templar, Arcanist, etc.

As for 'class identity'. People keep holding on to the 'this is an MMO' yet fail to accept that not all MMOs have classes. Furthermore, even Rich said a few years ago on a podcast that ESO was planned to be a regular MMO but they realized after a year that it failed as a regular MMO, that the majority wanted 'Skyrim with friends'... and with that I now ask, how many classes does Skyrim have? If anything, ZOS is righting the wrongs of 'class identity' with this update- and finally allowing players to play as they would in Skyrim- with the caveat of having to choose a base 'class' to start from. I'm sure this has more to do with re-writing the whole game code to remove classes versus a simpler solution to address that aspect by introducing subclassing. In any event, like so many others, I am looking forward to subclassing and continue playing ESO for many more years.

sans-culottes

ADarklore wrote: »

sans-culottes wrote: »

This post unintentionally illustrates the exact tension so many of us have raised: the thematic incoherence subclassing brings.

What begins as a fantasy—crafting a hybrid Arc-Tem-Tem build—quickly unravels into a spreadsheet logic puzzle. What base class grants the highest synergy? What subclass pairings allow for the most throughput? What once was a character with identity becomes an optimization shell. It’s less “role-playing” than min-max cartography.

You admit as much when you call Arcanist a limited base class unless you “really love playing Arcanist skills.” That should be disqualifying. A class should not require an asterisk. Yet subclassing dilutes each class’s meaning to such an extent that one picks a base not for fantasy, theme, or cohesion, but because it permits a favorable configuration matrix.

I disagree. I think it shows the plethora of OPTIONS that are going to be available, but choosing a base class based on how a player personally wants to play. My post has nothing to do with min-maxing and honestly trying to find the best role-play options for how "I" play the game- and looking for others to share their views as well.

I could care less about 'class meaning' and care more about OPTIONS to decrease boredom for having played a game for 10 years now- give or take a few months here and there. That's the problem with ESO for so many players- boredom due to nothing ever changing. Warden, Necromancer and Arcanist became the 'newest shiny' that brought players back- but then it didn't last because of the boredom setting in- same class, same skills, same same same. Now, with subclassing, there are so many options- some obviously better than others depending on the content you run- but overall, it'll make playing the game so much better for a lot of players- especially those who just want to play solo and do their own thing while designing their classes to their playstyle.

Now, back to my last post... I have decided against Templar because I found Nightblade to be a better all-around choice for ME given how I like to play. As someone posted above about the benefits of Nightblade skill lines. For me, it has nothing to do with the Assassination skill line, and everything to do with Siphoning Strikes- arguably the best sustain skill in the game. Then, when I'm tired of constant combat, I can throw on Shadowy Disguise and just get to quest objective faster, or when I'm doing Thieves Guild or DB. Even though I don't enjoy Nightblade per se, I WILL enjoy the benefits the skill lines do have to offer when mixed with other class DPS lines like Templar, Arcanist, etc.

As for 'class identity'. People keep holding on to the 'this is an MMO' yet fail to accept that not all MMOs have classes. Furthermore, even Rich said a few years ago on a podcast that ESO was planned to be a regular MMO but they realized after a year that it failed as a regular MMO, that the majority wanted 'Skyrim with friends'... and with that I now ask, how many classes does Skyrim have? If anything, ZOS is righting the wrongs of 'class identity' with this update- and finally allowing players to play as they would in Skyrim- with the caveat of having to choose a base 'class' to start from. I'm sure this has more to do with re-writing the whole game code to remove classes versus a simpler solution to address that aspect by introducing subclassing. In any event, like so many others, I am looking forward to subclassing and continue playing ESO for many more years.

@ADarklore, your reply reads less like a defense of player freedom and more like a resignation to incoherence.

You say you’re not min-maxing, yet your entire rationale is a flowchart of utility: “Siphoning Strikes for sustain, Shadowy Disguise for travel, discard Templar because Nightblade has better solo uptime.” That isn’t character-building. It’s repackaging optimization as personal expression.

The problem isn’t that subclassing gives you options. It’s that the type of options it gives—arbitrary fragments divorced from context—undermine any remaining illusion of thematic or mechanical integrity. You’re not making a character. You’re making a build with a fast-travel button.

As for the “Skyrim with friends” line, that gets thrown around a lot. But Skyrim, for all its flaws, had cohesive archetypes built around skill lines that made sense. You became what you practiced. ESO now asks you to choose a base class you don’t even like, just to unlock a sustain tool and a stealth shortcut.

If that’s what freedom looks like, then the price was identity.

sleepy_worm

Y'all seem to be veering off topic.

Anyway, the choice seems down to what your Class Mastery does and to a lesser extent the class IA sets, though ZOS seems dead set on making those as undesirable as possible.

As far as Class Mastery is concerned, I think Arcanist would come out ahead.

Erickson9610

sleepy_worm wrote: »

Y'all seem to be veering off topic.

Anyway, the choice seems down to what your Class Mastery does and to a lesser extent the class IA sets, though ZOS seems dead set on making those as undesirable as possible.

As far as Class Mastery is concerned, I think Arcanist would come out ahead.

That's one of the reasons I think Class Mastery effects should be standardized across all classes. Ideally even Class Sets should be usable on any class if you have the appropriate skill line equipped, too.

Tigertron

Nightblade, arch or sorc.

These are the only classes you *may* want to use two skill lines from in very niche situations. They are also the classes that will be part of the new meta.

The rest of the classes have skill lines that are best used for supplementing those classes. But they can then be a hold back as a primary class because you won’t want to be stuck with one skill line that doesn’t help achieve meta and can’t be swapped.

Or you can be inefficient and pick whatever you like. Most normal content will be a face roll now and even if you want to be a frost warden there will be plenty of players who can carry you through it.

StarOfElyon

ADarklore wrote: »

What are people's thoughts on which class offers the best starting point for subclassing? As in, which will offer the most combinations. I'm not talking competitive or Endgame, I'm talking about FUN subclass ideas. I don't want to have to use alts anymore and have ONE dedicated character/class that I can get the most bang for the buck out of long-term.

Personally, I'm torn. I was heavily leading into Warden- albeit I hate Warden as a stand alone class, but I also love pets. So having the bear available with all subclasses seems like a good option. Plus, I love playing an ice mage- and being able to drop the bear and pick up Arcanist and Necro for their frost skills and beneficial passives, seems like a win. The downside is, when I don't want to have the bear nor play ice mage- then Warden is a wasted choice.

Arcanist has great passives and the beam is always fun... and would work well with Templar... but if I get tired of the beam, then it's a wasted choice.

See the dilemma? Trying to find that "Yes, I will always use this skill for every subclass build" to figure out my base class.

Ideas and thoughts?

Nightblade.

Then add Restoring Light.

It kills anything and dies to nothing.

barney2525

Best Base Class?

Physics

noblecron

I was thinking for my stam sorc going dark magic, one of the necro lines and assassination line. Not sure how well it'd work

For my second stamblade I wanna do a build involving assassination line, templar spear, and sorc or necro for the conjured weapon look

For one of my DK wanna do a DK flame, templar dawn's light and maybe sorc shock.

Haven't decided, not sure how viable XD

Hypertionb14_ESO

Arcanist. Beam still king and only arc will have the crux banner.

zombievalen

ADarklore wrote: »

What are people's thoughts on which class offers the best starting point for subclassing? As in, which will offer the most combinations. I'm not talking competitive or Endgame, I'm talking about FUN subclass ideas. I don't want to have to use alts anymore and have ONE dedicated character/class that I can get the most bang for the buck out of long-term.

Personally, I'm torn. I was heavily leading into Warden- albeit I hate Warden as a stand alone class, but I also love pets. So having the bear available with all subclasses seems like a good option. Plus, I love playing an ice mage- and being able to drop the bear and pick up Arcanist and Necro for their frost skills and beneficial passives, seems like a win. The downside is, when I don't want to have the bear nor play ice mage- then Warden is a wasted choice.

Arcanist has great passives and the beam is always fun... and would work well with Templar... but if I get tired of the beam, then it's a wasted choice.

See the dilemma? Trying to find that "Yes, I will always use this skill for every subclass build" to figure out my base class.

Ideas and thoughts?

I'm the same... I was thinking about: Warden + Sorc + Arc, but I don't know how to generate Cruxes.

I think I should give up one of the Warlock's pets and add a Crux generator, right?

Has anyone tested this or found anything with this combination?

zombievalen

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

I think there's sort of a "right" answer here, and it's NOT the original 4 classes. According to a lot of people commenting since subclassing was announced, the 3 additional classes that have been added since the game was launched (warden, necromancer, and arcanist) have their 3 class skill lines roughly separated into DPS, tanking, and healing. I don't know how true that is, since I have never really thought about it that hard. But it would seem that this would make those 3 classes the best options for a "base" class to work from in subclassing, since you could choose a straightforward base skill line to work from, depending on what you were setting it up for. In my mind, Arcanist is going to rule over all, once again, like their superiority in DPS currently.

I think the subclasses are great. If you're looking for a unique character, there's no problem playing that way. If you want a change of pace, try mixing other classes. The problem is always the same, just like in the base game: everything is poorly balanced.
Arcanist combos top out at 170k, and those you can create with Guardian (for example) top out at 120k.
I think the subclass change is great and innovative, but they should review the active and passive skill trees.

personent

I have been giving this some thought.

I have begun from scratch with an Arcanist, that I want as my "main". I have not even really gotten through much of the latest stories with any main character because I seem to just get taken in by trying other classes and then falling in love with them. About six months ago, I said 'NO MORE" and I was going to stick with an Arcanist, because I love the crux system and the strategic timing of building crux and then letting them go (yeah...I'm one of those people).

I love my Arcanist and have a great deal of fun with them.

But now, with sub classing, I am at a loss. Do I start a new "main" with the idea that I can diversify that main around ideas that I get, or do I stick with my Arcanist and just replace skill lines as strikes my fancy.

So, as I have been thinking, as much as the OP doesn't like the idea of a Warden, they seem to be the best base class for what I want to bounce around and try. Meta does not matter to me as much as having a good time.

I want to try a Minion Master type, so a Warden with the Animal Companions line, Grave Lord for Blast Bones and Skeletal Mage, and Sorcerer for the Daedric Summoning line. (keeping in mind the 'max' of six pets, I think I could swing that with a companion as well. Small army for the win?)

I also want to try a pure elementalist with Warden's Frost Line, Sorcerer's Lightning Line, and the DK's Flame line. Finally hearkening back to the 'trifecta' of ES elemental magic.

But that means starting ALL OVER with another main and doing all the guild quests, building up scrying and digging. And done the main quest...AGAIN.

Sorry if this answer wandered a bit off topic, but the I think that the Warden as a base class might not be a bad idea for subclassing.

personent

zombievalen wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

What are people's thoughts on which class offers the best starting point for subclassing? As in, which will offer the most combinations. I'm not talking competitive or Endgame, I'm talking about FUN subclass ideas. I don't want to have to use alts anymore and have ONE dedicated character/class that I can get the most bang for the buck out of long-term.

Personally, I'm torn. I was heavily leading into Warden- albeit I hate Warden as a stand alone class, but I also love pets. So having the bear available with all subclasses seems like a good option. Plus, I love playing an ice mage- and being able to drop the bear and pick up Arcanist and Necro for their frost skills and beneficial passives, seems like a win. The downside is, when I don't want to have the bear nor play ice mage- then Warden is a wasted choice.

Arcanist has great passives and the beam is always fun... and would work well with Templar... but if I get tired of the beam, then it's a wasted choice.

See the dilemma? Trying to find that "Yes, I will always use this skill for every subclass build" to figure out my base class.

Ideas and thoughts?

I'm the same... I was thinking about: Warden + Sorc + Arc, but I don't know how to generate Cruxes.

I think I should give up one of the Warlock's pets and add a Crux generator, right?

Has anyone tested this or found anything with this combination?

You could generate Crux easily with the Herald of the Tome Line, as they have two crux generator skills there (and you get the beam!). You could use Runic Jolt and Cruxweaver armor from Solider, and Chakram of Destiny from Curative from the other lines, but it would take a bit to build up crux, I think...

Elvenheart

From the way some people are talking about Subclassing, I’m fully expecting that when my Subclassed character enters a zone or a dungeon that all of the creatures in the zone or dungeon will just drop dead. ☠️