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How a more interesting approach to subclassing could work in ESO

St_Anger
St_Anger
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The ESODirect showcase of the upcoming subclassing system, which in my opinion will destroy class identity and the little endgame build diversity left, has inspired me to a much more interesting approach to subclassing which would not only keep class identity but would also expand on it. Give me your opinion on it!
Note: this is a very quick brainstormy draft of how a good subclassing system could work in ESO. Also, I am not a native English speaker, so please excuse eventual errors.

Basic Idea: Each subclass follows a theme that is somewhat related to the original main class but distinct from it. To achieve this, every subclass keeps two skill lines from the main class (at least in function) but replaces a third one with an entirely new skill line. In the following are examples of how this could work in practice.

The simplest and easiest way to implement this concept would be to stay close to the main class and keep two skill lines entirely unchanged. One example could be the “Bloodknight” subclass of the Dragonknight:

Bloodknight
Summary: The Bloodknight has left fire and poison behind to eviscerate his adversaries and revel in their blood.
Skill lines:
- Carnage (NEW): entirely new skill line focused on bleed damage. Some skills eviscerate the enemy, making them bleed, while others use blood itself to deal damage.
- Draconic Power: unchanged
- Earthen Heart: unchanged

An intermediate way that would keep the workload on implementing this system low but gives a more unique identity, would be to keep the theme and base animations the same, but alter color and effects similar to the skill styles that are already in game as well as the names, if need be. One example could be the “Dark Templar” subclass of the Templar:

Dark Templar
Summary: The Dark Templar has turned away from the path of the light and searches for everlasting darkness instead.
Skill lines:
- Daedric Spear (Renamed from Aedric Spear): animations unchanged, but with a darker, maybe bluish color scheme and adjusted names.
- Dusks Wrath (Renamed from Dawns Wrath): animations unchanged, but with less light centered names and color scheme.
- Devouring Darkness (NEW): entirely new support-focused skill line, possibly with some damage dealing skills.

Another way to implement this system would be to pay direct attention to creating new class identities. This would be more work for the devs, because many skills would require new animations. One example I came up with, would be the “Grovekeeper” subclass of the Warden.

Grovekeeper
Summary: The Grovekeeper is no longer utilizing animal companions or frost magic but has instead devoted himself to healing the nature and spreading wild growth everywhere he treads.
Skill lines:
- Inexorable Overgrowth (NEW): damage focused skill line that centers around thorny, tentacle-like vines.
- Green Balance: mostly unchanged
- Nature’s Reclaim (Renamed from Winter’s Embrace): functionally unchanged but new animations and skill names that fit to a plant/nature-based theme.

Obviously multiple subclasses for the same main class are possible. Two ideas that go into entirely different directions would be the subclasses “Foreststalker” and “Voidwalker” of the Nightblade.

Foreststalker
Summary: The Foreststalker dwells in the dense forests of Tamriel, stalking in the thicket for his victims.
Skill lines:
- Assassination: mostly unchanged
- Pathfinder (NEW): entirely new tanking and support focused skill line with a theme that centers around survival in a hostile (nature) environment.
- Mend Nature (Renamed from Siphoning): functionally unchanged but with animations and skill names that fit better to the nature theme of the subclass.

Voidwalker
Summary: The Voidwalker harnesses the power of the void to conjure shadows and to siphon the life essence of its foes.
Skill lines:
- Endless Void (NEW): entirely new skill line that utilizes void-themed skills to deal damage.
- Shadow: mostly unchanged
- Siphoning: mostly unchanged

Other ideas I came up with are:
- “Tidemaster” from Sorcerer: Replaces Deadric Summoning with the ocean-centered "Tide Mastery" skill line.
- “Plaguebearer” from Necromancer: Replaces Grave Lord with the disease damage focused “Harbinger of Pestilence” skill line.
- “Crystalformer” from Arcanist: Replaces Herald of the Tome with the damage-oriented "Lacerating Crystals" skill line and renames Curative Runeforms to Curative Gem Power and Soldier of Apocrypha to Crystallization along with altered animations.

Please leave some feedback and your own ideas how the subclassing system could be improved.
  • tinythinker
    tinythinker
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    St_Anger wrote: »
    The ESODirect showcase of the upcoming subclassing system, which in my opinion will destroy class identity and the little endgame build diversity left, has inspired me to a much more interesting approach to subclassing which would not only keep class identity but would also expand on it. Give me your opinion on it!
    Note: this is a very quick brainstormy draft of how a good subclassing system could work in ESO. Also, I am not a native English speaker, so please excuse eventual errors.

    Basic Idea: Each subclass follows a theme that is somewhat related to the original main class but distinct from it. To achieve this, every subclass keeps two skill lines from the main class (at least in function) but replaces a third one with an entirely new skill line. In the following are examples of how this could work in practice.

    The simplest and easiest way to implement this concept would be to stay close to the main class and keep two skill lines entirely unchanged. One example could be the “Bloodknight” subclass of the Dragonknight:

    Bloodknight
    Summary: The Bloodknight has left fire and poison behind to eviscerate his adversaries and revel in their blood.
    Skill lines:
    - Carnage (NEW): entirely new skill line focused on bleed damage. Some skills eviscerate the enemy, making them bleed, while others use blood itself to deal damage.
    - Draconic Power: unchanged
    - Earthen Heart: unchanged


    [...snip to save space...]



    Please leave some feedback and your own ideas how the subclassing system could be improved.

    Nice. I was going to post basically the same thing. And based on what developer Carrie Day said about how they are just getting started (but have already used all existing class skills lines), ideas like this are probably going to happen in terms of actual evolutions of existing classes.

    That won't stop people from being unable to add skill lines from other classes, but it would be very good for people who want more variety within a class. In that case, though, they would need to make the new sub-class within a class (like your Bloodknight) exclusive to Dragonknights. Same with other classes' evolutionary sub-classes.

    Great post! Hope the devs look at it.

    Oh, for what it's worth and my example from long ago (wherever it is) was for a Coldfired/Coldfire Dragonknight, so it would have pale blue flames for all class abilities, like a couple of DK abilities can now use. Also a Coldharbour theme of (more) chains, appropriately themed brutal attack animations, etc. Not sure but I recall making the classs DoTs stronger and not immediately purge-able (but also giving the DK a major weakness). The idea being that the DK learned to absorb and become infused with coldfire from their time in Molag Bal's realm.

    (And having worked with many non-native English speakers, I would never have known English wasn't your first language.)

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  • Vaqual
    Vaqual
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    In principle that is something that you will be able to achieve with subclassing, scribing and skill styles anyway. You just have to make up the ability names for yourself.
    Your ideas are good, but still only a fraction of the possibilities that we will have with the coming update, gameplay wise.
    In terms of styles the best thing would be to specifically ask for certain flavor concepts to skill lines. Options are mostly welcomed by a large portion of the player base, whereas tying a fixed style to certain ability variations might be less universally accepted.
  • St_Anger
    St_Anger
    ✭✭✭
    Vaqual wrote: »
    In principle that is something that you will be able to achieve with subclassing, scribing and skill styles anyway. You just have to make up the ability names for yourself.
    Your ideas are good, but still only a fraction of the possibilities that we will have with the coming update, gameplay wise.
    In terms of styles the best thing would be to specifically ask for certain flavor concepts to skill lines. Options are mostly welcomed by a large portion of the player base, whereas tying a fixed style to certain ability variations might be less universally accepted.

    My goal with this was less to create new playstyles or roleplay options, but to do so without annihilating class identity. We still don't know how the subclassing system which was announced at the ESODirect will function in detail but if you can just mix and match skill lines from all classes including respective passives, class identity will be completely lost, since every class could play basically the same.
    I know that this is cool for casual gameplay but I see problems with PvP and endgame PvE.
    I already hated the effective abolition of the stamina/magicka split. Now everyone plays the same sets and medium armor. The only destinction left are the class skills, but with this subclassing I fear that even the skills will be the same and there will be almost no build difference left in endgame PvE.
  • St_Anger
    St_Anger
    ✭✭✭
    St_Anger wrote: »
    The ESODirect showcase of the upcoming subclassing system, which in my opinion will destroy class identity and the little endgame build diversity left, has inspired me to a much more interesting approach to subclassing which would not only keep class identity but would also expand on it. Give me your opinion on it!
    Note: this is a very quick brainstormy draft of how a good subclassing system could work in ESO. Also, I am not a native English speaker, so please excuse eventual errors.

    Basic Idea: Each subclass follows a theme that is somewhat related to the original main class but distinct from it. To achieve this, every subclass keeps two skill lines from the main class (at least in function) but replaces a third one with an entirely new skill line. In the following are examples of how this could work in practice.

    The simplest and easiest way to implement this concept would be to stay close to the main class and keep two skill lines entirely unchanged. One example could be the “Bloodknight” subclass of the Dragonknight:

    Bloodknight
    Summary: The Bloodknight has left fire and poison behind to eviscerate his adversaries and revel in their blood.
    Skill lines:
    - Carnage (NEW): entirely new skill line focused on bleed damage. Some skills eviscerate the enemy, making them bleed, while others use blood itself to deal damage.
    - Draconic Power: unchanged
    - Earthen Heart: unchanged


    [...snip to save space...]



    Please leave some feedback and your own ideas how the subclassing system could be improved.

    Nice. I was going to post basically the same thing. And based on what developer Carrie Day said about how they are just getting started (but have already used all existing class skills lines), ideas like this are probably going to happen in terms of actual evolutions of existing classes.

    That won't stop people from being unable to add skill lines from other classes, but it would be very good for people who want more variety within a class. In that case, though, they would need to make the new sub-class within a class (like your Bloodknight) exclusive to Dragonknights. Same with other classes' evolutionary sub-classes.

    Great post! Hope the devs look at it.

    Oh, for what it's worth and my example from long ago (wherever it is) was for a Coldfired/Coldfire Dragonknight, so it would have pale blue flames for all class abilities, like a couple of DK abilities can now use. Also a Coldharbour theme of (more) chains, appropriately themed brutal attack animations, etc. Not sure but I recall making the classs DoTs stronger and not immediately purge-able (but also giving the DK a major weakness). The idea being that the DK learned to absorb and become infused with coldfire from their time in Molag Bal's realm.

    (And having worked with many non-native English speakers, I would never have known English wasn't your first language.)

    Thanks for your feedback!

    I like your idea of a Coldharbor-themed Dragonknight!

    I haven't thought about this, but if they would add new class skill lines later, rather than just having the skill lines from other classes be playable on every other class, could be cool. I still don't like the fact that you will be able to mix existing classes.
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