What's the point in ESO+ now?

Imperial_Archmage · April 12

DenverRalphy wrote: »

It's exactly the same as it's always been.

Realistically all they did was rename the purchase from Chapter to Content Pass. Probably because they won't be releasing all new content in one big update with that purchase. So each year you buy one content pass, and all content/updates throughout the year are included. Other than that, everything operates exactly like it always has.

Except that’s not the case at all because these Content Passes are more expensive that the old Chapters used to be and the things they’re bundled with are features subscribers already have access to, so they’ll essentially be paying more without getting any of the benefits. Subscribers need to get a discount on Content Passes for things to remain as they were before.

WhiteScythe · April 12

Acetriad wrote: »

The stupid craft bag and the fact that the game is basically unplayable without it, keep me being an ESO+ member. That doesn't make me a happy, or satisfied customer though.

ZOS created the problem and are selling the solution for real money. The question is.. when will people finally just refuse to give in?

shadyjane62 · April 12

WhiteScythe wrote: »

Acetriad wrote: »

The stupid craft bag and the fact that the game is basically unplayable without it, keep me being an ESO+ member. That doesn't make me a happy, or satisfied customer though.

ZOS created the problem and are selling the solution for real money. The question is.. when will people finally just refuse to give in?

Now.

Jaimeh · April 12

I think that if I buy the pass, I will drop ESO+ (or at least sun for a month to get access to the vault) because I don't like how they've included the dungeons to the pass; instead they should have made a pass that gives access to the zone, include the dungeon in ESO+ and also release them in the store, like usual, so that non-subs could buy them, because basically the new zone is the old version of chapter+Q4 story, so they didn't have to bunch up the dungeons with it. I also have a feeling that this content will be much smaller than what a chapter plus Q4 zone had, but the price is higher only because they added the dungeons in, for which ESO+ players had access anyway. It's a very clever system to double dip on player wallets, and I'm surprised not more people are being vocal about it.

Northwold · April 12

I think basically what they needed to do was treat the content pass as the poor man's version of subscription -- giving permanent access to that year's content and nothing else.

And what they should have done with ESO+ was increase ESO+'s price by a degree (not as much as adding the full price of the content pass on top) and turned it into the premium option, which gives all existing ESO + benefits, plus the new content, for as long as you're subscribed (subject to a minimum subscription of eg six months to get the new content), abandoning the practice of selling story content separately to ESO+ and instead bundling it in. That content would then become part of all ESO plus subscriptions after a year as before.

THAT would have made it look like they were adding value to ESO+ in return for a price increase.

What they have managed to do instead is create a pricing model that makes it look like they are treating ESO plus subscribers as mugs and deliberately ripping them off.

As own goals go this is pretty bad. They're making the most loyal customers feel exploited and short changed.

EDIT: On reflection, how this would probably have to work in practice to avoid causing a headache with differentiating between different ESO plus membership periods. You sell the content pass. And you sell the content pass premium, which includes everything the content pass does, including permanent content ownership, plus six months (say) of ESO plus, at a price that is less than the full total of content pass plus ESO+. The added bonus for ZOS here is that you may well induce long term subscriptions to ESO+ after the included time is up, rather than, at present, the likely outcome that you are going to drive existing subscribers *away from* ESO+.

sans-culottes · April 12

Northwold wrote: »

I think basically what they needed to do was treat the content pass as the poor man's version of subscription -- giving permanent access to that year's content and nothing else.

And what they should have done with ESO+ was increase ESO+'s price by a degree (not as much as adding the full price of the content pass on top) and turned it into the premium option, which gives all existing ESO + benefits, plus the new content, for as long as you're subscribed (subject to a minimum subscription of eg six months to get the new content), abandoning the practice of selling story content separately to ESO+ and instead bundling it in. That content would then become part of all ESO plus subscriptions after a year as before.

THAT would have made it look like they were adding value to ESO+ in return for a price increase.

What they have managed to do instead is create a pricing model that makes it look like they are treating ESO plus subscribers as mugs and deliberately ripping them off.

As own goals go this is pretty bad. They're making the most loyal customers feel exploited and short changed.

Agreed. Great analysis, as usual.

ForumBully · April 12

It's very confusing. I'm actually considering being a returning player but I have no idea how to return because this whole transition is a muddy mess. I'm not paying two subscriptions to get a couple of things from both. This looks like you're creating another barrier for entry which isn't a good idea.

sans-culottes · April 12

ForumBully wrote: »

It's very confusing. I'm actually considering being a returning player but I have no idea how to return because this whole transition is a muddy mess. I'm not paying two subscriptions to get a couple of things from both. This looks like you're creating another barrier for entry which isn't a good idea.

Absolutely agreed. From a user experience standpoint, this rollout has been bewildering. For returning players, the unclear distinction between ESO+, the content pass, and what’s actually included at any given time creates friction before you even log in. For active subscribers, the message feels tone-deaf—especially when the value of ESO+ is increasingly undermined while its price point remains static.

Instead of streamlining access and reinforcing ESO+ as the central premium offering, ZOS seems to be fragmenting the model and eroding player trust in the process. This shift could have been an opportunity to add value and reward loyalty. Instead, it feels like an unforced error that may drive people away rather than draw them back in.

Thysbe · April 12

Tyralbin wrote: »

And what they should have done with ESO+ was increase ESO+'s price by a degree (not as much as adding the full price of the content pass on top) and turned it into the premium option, which gives all existing ESO + benefits, plus the new content, for as long as you're subscribed (subject to a minimum subscription of eg six months to get the new content), abandoning the practice of selling story content separately to ESO+ and instead bundling it in. That content would then become part of all ESO plus subscriptions after a year as before.

If this works depends a lot on the revenue split between ESO+ and non-ESO+ players. I think there are no figures out about that split.

A very high number of non-ESO+ players won´t be forced into any kind of subscription model. Don´t forget, they are the ones doing the inventory game every day instead of paying. The ones that already bought all the other content they want to access. Many won´t budge out of principle, the difference would mean a 125+ (you said to up the fee) EUR instead of 50 EUR for a non ESO+ player. This is a lot of money for some.

While this would be fair and desirable from an ESO+ perspective I am pretty sure the overall income effect would be negative since there won´t be any revenues from the pass and the resulting increase in ESO+ subscriptions will be only minor (my assumption). In addition you will have less revenues from ESO+ players too since you said sub increase overall should be less than pass price.

In addtion there are also reduced crown sales to be expected since non subbing players spend there as well. Especially since they get no "free" crowns.

Northwold · April 12

.

Thysbe wrote: »

Tyralbin wrote: »

And what they should have done with ESO+ was increase ESO+'s price by a degree (not as much as adding the full price of the content pass on top) and turned it into the premium option, which gives all existing ESO + benefits, plus the new content, for as long as you're subscribed (subject to a minimum subscription of eg six months to get the new content), abandoning the practice of selling story content separately to ESO+ and instead bundling it in. That content would then become part of all ESO plus subscriptions after a year as before.

If this works depends a lot on the revenue split between ESO+ and non-ESO+ players. I think there are no figures out about that split.

A very high number of non-ESO+ players won´t be forced into any kind of subscription model. Don´t forget, they are the ones doing the inventory game every day instead of paying. Many won´t budge out of principle, the difference would mean a 125+ (you said to up the fee) EUR instead of 50 EUR for a non ESO+ player. This is a lot of money for some.

While this would be fair and desirable from an ESO+ perspective I am pretty sure the overall income effect would be negative since there won´t be any revenues from the pass and the resulting increase in ESO+ subscriptions will be only minor (my assumption). In addition you will have less revenues from ESO+ players too since you said sub increase overall should be less than pass price.

(Nb your quote states someone else but I assume you're replying to me)

What is happening at the moment is that ESO+ subscribers will already be paying price of content pass plus price of ESO+. There is a clearly a pricing pressure in the background here. So (see my edit) bundle ESO+ with the content pass and make the total cheaper than the sum of its parts, while mildly increasing the monthly rate of ESO+.

Elrond87 · April 12

so am i getting less for eso+ and over paying for content pass for things eso+ gives?

and eso+ for bag space is a problem that got invented it needs something more than a furniture vault, many couldn't care less about housing.

How about free storage for all sets, my main has loads of builds which leaves me 10 bag space, why is there a option for 10 armoury slots with no option to store all the sets? sub class coming many will be able to do all roles on 1 character meaning more demand on sets taking up space

sans-culottes · April 12

Elrond87 wrote: »

so am i getting less for eso+ and over paying for content pass for things eso+ gives?

and eso+ for bag space is a problem that got invented it needs something more than a furniture vault, many couldn't care less about housing.

How about free storage for all sets, my main has loads of builds which leaves me 10 bag space, why is there a option for 10 armoury slots with no option to store all the sets? sub class coming many will be able to do all roles on 1 character meaning more demand on sets taking up space

Agreed. The vault is fine for what it is, but calling it a major selling point feels disconnected from how most players actually use their inventory. If anything, ZOS has—whether by design or neglect—eroded much of the practical value ESO+ used to offer.

licenturion · April 12

sans-culottes wrote: »

Instead of streamlining access and reinforcing ESO+ as the central premium offering, ZOS seems to be fragmenting the model and eroding player trust in the process. This shift could have been an opportunity to add value and reward loyalty. Instead, it feels like an unforced error that may drive people away rather than draw them back in.

Didn't you see the immense backlash by that fact that the dungeons were ESO+ limited for a while.

It was not only here but also on socials where a lot of the comments were about this and an absolute majority was against forced subscriptions and just want one time purchases (even if they pay more).

They even had to put clarifications out about this. And they also explicitly said during the stream 'You own this, this is not a subscription' . They also mentioned a few times that the dungeons will be for sale separately.

Seeing all this, plus the metrics they have Fallen Banners had on subscriptions, it is clear a lot of people still like buying stuff. That is probably why they are doubling down on it by mentioning it a few times and including the ownership of the dungeons in the year pass, because a giant portion of the player base always bought them already in the past.

Companies always take decisions on data, and the new model is also built around this. If you don't find value in ESO+ anymore, just cancel. If enough people do that, they will include more perks or lower the price. But if people just keep paying, that means the product is still valuable to them. The people they lose over the dungeons could be offset by the housing fans who will subscribe for the furniture vault.

Thysbe · April 12

Northwold wrote: »

What is happening at the moment is that ESO+ subscribers will already be paying price of content pass plus price of ESO+. There is a clearly a pricing pressure in the background here. So (see my edit) bundle ESO+ with the content pass and make the total cheaper than the sum of its parts, while mildly increasing the monthly rate of ESO+.

yeah - I was replying to you :-)

saw your edit now - was added after my post.

I fully agree - there should be an ESO+ option which is cheaper than the pass compensating for the gap in content. As long as there is also a purchasable option I think that would be a really good idea giving an ESO+ discount.

That would be a really good move regarding player retention and showing respect and consideration for long-term customers. That way I might have even thought about getting it, since I sub every now and then for a month :-).

sans-culottes · April 12

licenturion wrote: »

sans-culottes wrote: »

Instead of streamlining access and reinforcing ESO+ as the central premium offering, ZOS seems to be fragmenting the model and eroding player trust in the process. This shift could have been an opportunity to add value and reward loyalty. Instead, it feels like an unforced error that may drive people away rather than draw them back in.

Didn't you see the immense backlash by that fact that the dungeons were ESO+ limited for a while.

It was not only here but also on socials where a lot of the comments were about this and an absolute majority was against forced subscriptions and just want one time purchases (even if they pay more).

They even had to put clarifications out about this. And they also explicitly said during the stream 'You own this, this is not a subscription' . They also mentioned a few times that the dungeons will be for sale separately.

Seeing all this, plus the metrics they have Fallen Banners had on subscriptions, it is clear a lot of people still like buying stuff. That is probably why they are doubling down on it by mentioning it a few times and including the ownership of the dungeons in the year pass, because a giant portion of the player base always bought them already in the past.

Companies always take decisions on data, and the new model is also built around this.

I’m not convinced the “backlash” you’re describing was quite what some made it out to be. At no point were the dungeons locked exclusively behind ESO+. They were always going to be made available for purchase—just not immediately. What actually happened was a short-term panic driven by FOMO and misunderstanding, followed by clarifications that confirmed players would, in fact, be able to buy them later.

In other words, the system didn’t collapse under its own weight. Instead, it was undermined by a lack of patience. And now, instead of refining that model or addressing long-standing frustrations (like the lack of permanent storage options), we’re seeing an even more fragmented monetization strategy that seems to complicate things for both returning and current players.

noblecron · April 12

I don't even buy dungeons. ESO plus is a must for daily writs and furnishing houses and bank space so def will still sub

Also you're buying a free dungeon practically in with 50 bucks so you don't have to pay 1500 crowns for a dungeon DLC or zone DLC

I know folk were saying but ESO plus but it's still a better deal money wise if you want to buy everything.

Thysbe · April 12

sans-culottes wrote: »

At no point were the dungeons locked exclusively behind ESO+.

That´s not true - the Fallen Banners dungeons were locked behind ESO+ for the last 6 weeks.

sans-culottes · April 12

Thysbe wrote: »

sans-culottes wrote: »

At no point were the dungeons locked exclusively behind ESO+.

That´s not true - the Fallen Banners dungeons were locked behind ESO+ for the last 6 weeks.

We have discussed this before. That is why I used the term “exclusively.” Time-gated purchase options are not the same things as exclusivity.

Thysbe · April 12

yeah - and I still don´t agree with you.

They are intersting when new - now I couldn´t care less if they are in the pass or I spend a handful of crowns on them. It´s old content.

sans-culottes · April 12

Thysbe wrote: »

yeah - and I still don´t agree with you.

They are intersting when new - now I couldn´t care less if they are in the pass or I spend a handful of crowns on them. It´s old content.

Fair enough if you disagree, but I’d just note that your latest point seems to shift the conversation. Initially, the claim was that the dungeons were “exclusive” to ESO+, which wasn’t the case. Now it sounds like the argument is that the content is no longer relevant because it’s six weeks old. That’s a very different framing.

If the concern was truly about access to the DLC, then the current model—delayed purchase rather than true exclusivity—should have satisfied that. If the concern was only ever about novelty, then that’s a different kind of discussion entirely, and one that doesn’t really speak to the fairness or clarity of the system itself.

Thysbe · April 12

They were exclusive while they were interesting - the main appeal of group content for me is to do it early on release. I paid for this experience with an ESO sub since it was the only way to get it. Thats at least temporary gating.

If time wasn´t of any importance I really wonder why the outrage of paying a pass in addition to the sub and not just sit it out for a year until it is included in ESO+ , as it is to be expected. Wouldn´t that be the same? Just wait until you get it the preferred way?

sans-culottes · April 12

Thysbe wrote: »

They were exclusive while they were interesting - the main appeal of group content for me is to do it early on release. I paid for this experience with an ESO sub since it was the only way to get it. Thats at least temporary gating.

If time wasn´t of any importance I really wonder why the outrage of paying a pass in addition to the sub and not just sit it out for a year until it is included in ESO+ , as it is to be expected. Wouldn´t that be the same? Just wait until you get it the preferred way?

That doesn’t really follow. I wasn’t the one who claimed the content was “exclusive”—I only pointed out that it wasn’t, and that a time-gated purchase is categorically different from content being permanently locked behind a subscription.

If your concern is about early access, then that’s fair to note, but it’s also a separate issue from exclusivity. Plenty of games offer temporary access incentives without suggesting that content is forever off-limits. The two aren’t equivalent, and conflating them only muddies the argument.

licenturion · April 12

sans-culottes wrote: »

In other words, the system didn’t collapse under its own weight. Instead, it was undermined by a lack of patience. And now, instead of refining that model or addressing long-standing frustrations (like the lack of permanent storage options), we’re seeing an even more fragmented monetization strategy that seems to complicate things for both returning and current players.

For all the players who vehemently hate subscription for games (and there are many) this pass model is a great deal. I get more for less money.

If I take the launch price of Gold Road and I have to buy 2 dungeon packs, 2 companions and deluxe set items it costs more.

I do agree with people saying that they should also put all the separate items on sale in the crown store for people that are not interested in the full package. This also would solve most of the criticism people have right now about paying twice for stuff or stuff they don't want.

I still and will never agree with withholding content to make ESO+ more valuable. (permanent or temporary). That is not adding value, but subtracting value from other people and will only result in me wanting to spend less money instead of more.

sans-culottes · April 12

licenturion wrote: »

sans-culottes wrote: »

In other words, the system didn’t collapse under its own weight. Instead, it was undermined by a lack of patience. And now, instead of refining that model or addressing long-standing frustrations (like the lack of permanent storage options), we’re seeing an even more fragmented monetization strategy that seems to complicate things for both returning and current players.

For all the players who vehemently hate subscription for games (and there are many) this pass model is a great deal. I get more for less money.

If I take the launch price of Gold Road and I have to buy 2 dungeon packs, 2 companions and deluxe set items it costs more.

I do agree with people saying that they should also put all the separate items on sale in the crown store for people that are not interested in the full package. This also would solve most of the criticism people have right now about paying twice for stuff or stuff they don't want.

Ironically, for those of us who don’t object to subscriptions, this shift actually reduces the relative value of what was once considered standard in the genre. What used to be included as part of a single, consistent ESO+ subscription is now being split into increasingly fragmented tiers. The result? Less for more—especially when core content is being peeled away and repackaged under a separate model.

At bottom, what’s being sold here isn’t just content; it’s licensing. And when licensing becomes this convoluted, it stops feeling like choice and starts feeling like nickel-and-diming.

licenturion · April 12

sans-culottes wrote: »

Ironically, for those of us who don’t object to subscriptions, this shift actually reduces the relative value of what was once considered standard in the genre. What used to be included as part of a single, consistent ESO+ subscription is now being split into increasingly fragmented tiers. The result? Less for more—especially when core content is being peeled away and repackaged under a separate model.

At bottom, what’s being sold here isn’t just content; it’s licensing. And when licensing becomes this convoluted, it stops feeling like choice and starts feeling like nickel-and-diming.

I said this before. But if you feel ripped off or don't feel a product isn't valuable anymore, stop buying. That is the only thing that matters if you want change in price or value. If you keep buying, you basically give your consent and still give the signal the product still offers enough value.

Money is not an issue at all. But I (and nobody in my friends group) gave in to the Fallen Banner ESO+ thing out of principle. And we just waited it out instead of rewarding them by giving in and giving the 'ok signal'. So I consider the inclusion of the dungeons a 'win'.

I don't understand the argument of losing value. They took out 1 dungeon DLC (cause Fallen Banners was already out) and replaced it with a new feature: the furnishing cabinet. So on paper this is a minus 1, plus 1 thing and for them this is still balanced.

sans-culottes · April 12

licenturion wrote: »

sans-culottes wrote: »

Ironically, for those of us who don’t object to subscriptions, this shift actually reduces the relative value of what was once considered standard in the genre. What used to be included as part of a single, consistent ESO+ subscription is now being split into increasingly fragmented tiers. The result? Less for more—especially when core content is being peeled away and repackaged under a separate model.

At bottom, what’s being sold here isn’t just content; it’s licensing. And when licensing becomes this convoluted, it stops feeling like choice and starts feeling like nickel-and-diming.

I said this before. But if you feel ripped off or don't feel a product isn't valuable anymore, stop buying. That is the only thing that matters if you want change in price or value. If you keep buying, you basically give your consent and still give the signal the product still offers enough value.

Money is not an issue at all. But I (and nobody in my friends group) gave in to the Fallen Banner ESO+ thing out of principle. And we just waited it out instead of rewarding them by giving in and giving the 'ok signal'. So I consider the inclusion of the dungeons a 'win'.

I don't understand the argument of losing value. They took out 1 dungeon DLC (cause Fallen Banners was already out) and replaced it with a new feature: the furnishing cabinet. So on paper this is a minus 1, plus 1 thing and for them this is still balanced.

I think there may be some misunderstanding here. I never said I felt “ripped off,” nor did I suggest players shouldn’t be free to make their own purchasing decisions. What I pointed out was that, relative to past norms in this genre—including within ESO itself—the current model splits what was once unified and creates a more fragmented, less transparent value structure.

This isn’t about personal grievance. It’s about whether the design of the model itself invites confidence or confusion. Raising these concerns isn’t the same as refusing to “vote with your wallet.” It’s part of articulating why that vote may be necessary in the first place.

DenverRalphy · April 12

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Someone in another thread proposed bundling the craft bag and other perks in with the season pass, and I like that idea too. So if you bought the season pass, you'd also be getting ESO+ for that season. Given how overpriced the season pass is, that would add value to it.

If all the ESO+ perks are taken away no one would subscribe any more, and someone needs to help keep the lights on. If they do that then they should go back to requiring a subscription to play.

ZOS makes what, 17 million a month on ESO. None of us have their numbers, but I am betting most of the money is made from the crown store.

If ESO+ disappeared tomorrow they would still make enough to keep the lights on, and continue development for the game.

And how much of that 17 million a month is gobbled up by payroll, costs, and expenses? Obviously they're not going broke, but they need to remain profitable if they're going to stay alive.

licenturion · April 12

sans-culottes wrote: »

I think there may be some misunderstanding here. I never said I felt “ripped off,” nor did I suggest players shouldn’t be free to make their own purchasing decisions. What I pointed out was that, relative to past norms in this genre—including within ESO itself—the current model splits what was once unified and creates a more fragmented, less transparent value structure.

This isn’t about personal grievance. It’s about whether the design of the model itself invites confidence or confusion. Raising these concerns isn’t the same as refusing to “vote with your wallet.” It’s part of articulating why that vote may be necessary in the first place.

Fair enough. I understand your points.

I am just pointing out some counterpoints in these type of threads so that the other side of the coins also gets some attention because for other players the new model is an actual improvement while some people keep repeating the model is bad for everyone.

I was also the one who started the whole 'Fallen Banners - we hate subscriptions' thread that became a bit hit. So I am biased because if really dislike forced subscriptions and don't want ESO ruined with it.

Cooperharley · April 12

ESO+ = previous DLC, dungeons, infinite craft bag, crowns monthly

Don't know about adding much to the future though. Not really as good of a deal anymore. I definitely think they should've discussed how ESO+ would be bolstered in this transition.

I personally couldn't care less about housing - I'm excited for the furnishing vault for those of y'all that enjoy it, but it doesn't increase the value for me whatsoever.

Imperial_Archmage · April 12

sans-culottes wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

It's very confusing. I'm actually considering being a returning player but I have no idea how to return because this whole transition is a muddy mess. I'm not paying two subscriptions to get a couple of things from both. This looks like you're creating another barrier for entry which isn't a good idea.

Absolutely agreed. From a user experience standpoint, this rollout has been bewildering. For returning players, the unclear distinction between ESO+, the content pass, and what’s actually included at any given time creates friction before you even log in. For active subscribers, the message feels tone-deaf—especially when the value of ESO+ is increasingly undermined while its price point remains static.

Instead of streamlining access and reinforcing ESO+ as the central premium offering, ZOS seems to be fragmenting the model and eroding player trust in the process. This shift could have been an opportunity to add value and reward loyalty. Instead, it feels like an unforced error that may drive people away rather than draw them back in.

[snip] The EU is literally passing laws against precisely this sort of conduct that has become rampant in the gaming industry.

[edited for bashing]