The_Oakster wrote: »

Tyralbin wrote: »

Don't know if I missed this but, ESO+ remains the same.

You still get all the content you had before.

The season pass only covers the new content.

When the next season is activated all this seasons stuff becomes active for ESO+.

The only thing you will be missing out on is some stuff that drops if you do the season whilst it's active.

Whilst you will get the previous chapters with the season pass other stuff like the old dlcs won't be unlocked (I think).

I think this is right. There is nowhere on the new season passes that says you get past DLC's, just the past chapters. You also get the free crowns with ESO+ as well as the craft bag, new furniture vault etc.

I was confused as the posts and topics were all saying that you got ALL the past content with the seasons pass and therefore overlapped with ESO+ but I don't think it does.

Or am I still reading it wrong?

You're not understanding why many subscribers are upset. We're not upset that we're not getting the content pass as part of our subscription. We're upset because the content pass includes the dungeons, which we already have access to as part of our sub. So in effect, we're paying for the same thing twice. As I said in in an earlier post, we're being expected to pay $50 for 3 things. Non-subscribers pay $50 for 5 things. It would have been better if ZOS offered two versions of the content pass - one with the dungeons, and a cheaper version without them.

AzuraFan wrote: »

The_Oakster wrote: »

Tyralbin wrote: »

Don't know if I missed this but, ESO+ remains the same.

You still get all the content you had before.

The season pass only covers the new content.

When the next season is activated all this seasons stuff becomes active for ESO+.

The only thing you will be missing out on is some stuff that drops if you do the season whilst it's active.

Whilst you will get the previous chapters with the season pass other stuff like the old dlcs won't be unlocked (I think).

I think this is right. There is nowhere on the new season passes that says you get past DLC's, just the past chapters. You also get the free crowns with ESO+ as well as the craft bag, new furniture vault etc.

I was confused as the posts and topics were all saying that you got ALL the past content with the seasons pass and therefore overlapped with ESO+ but I don't think it does.

Or am I still reading it wrong?

We're not upset that we're not getting the content pass as part of our subscription.

Honestly, we probably should be. ESO+ was set up in the first place for exactly this reason - access to DLC without having to spend crowns. Over the years they kept walking it back, categorizing less content as "DLC".
Right now, we reached a point where only dungeon DLC is included in ESO+.
Where do we want to draw the line?

Honestly what really annoys me is just the mess this is. One big selling point for ESO+ is that you don't have to piece together the content the game offers. You get access to everything by being a subscriber. Now? I have no clue what content I'll get a few months from now when I subscribe.
They can't even commit to saying "once this season is over, it will go into the Crown Store and will be included in ESO+". Like previous chapters. So why should I commit to subscribing?

I don't mind a season pass.
I don't mind subscribing.
But I'm not doing both. Right now, neither is really appealing, because they are only half a package.

They'll have to figure out how to make the whole game easily accessible again if they want to keep claiming that I "belong".

Faulgor wrote: »

I don't mind a season pass.
I don't mind subscribing.
But I'm not doing both. Right now, neither is really appealing, because they are only half a package.

They'll have to figure out how to make the whole game easily accessible again if they want to keep claiming that I "belong".

For sure, the value of ESO+ has been declining over time. That's why the price hasn't gone up. I've seen some people saying we should be happy about that, but why? The sub has been bleeding value. The price hasn't gone up because ZOS couldn't have dared raise it. You can't keep removing perks from something AND raise the price.

For me, I'm not as annoyed about having to pay for a content pass because I've always bought the chapters. I'm annoyed that as a subscriber, I'm expected to effectively pay more for the pass than a non-subscriber. It's frankly insulting that a company expects subscribers (the folks most companies take good care of) to do that.

Also, they haven't said whether the content pass will become a DLC in a year and be available as part of the sub.

Elsonso wrote: »

At this point, as the future of ESO Plus seems to be inventory management, they should just bundle 365 days of ESO Plus in a 2025 Content Plus pack and offer a discount on ESO Plus if you do it that way.

For sure, they should take another look at ESO+. Another idea would be to scrap it and just put the craft bag, etc., into the crown store. But if they don't want to do that, yeah, offering a year's access to the craft bag and other perks as part of a season pass would also work. I like that idea, too.

SilverBride wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Another idea would be to scrap it and just put the craft bag, etc., into the crown store. But if they don't want to do that, yeah, offering a year's access to the craft bag and other perks as part of a season pass would also work.

No.

ESO+ is a lot more than just the craft bag. It's all of these and I don't want to lose any of them.

• Access to all DLC game pack
• Access to the Furniture Vault
• Free crowns for the in-game Crown Store
• Access to the Craft Bag
• Double bank space
• 10% increase to Experience & Gold acquisition, Crafting Inspiration, Trait Research, and Archival Fortunes acquisition rates
• Bonuses to progression
• Increased Furniture placement limits
• Costume dyeing
• Double Transmute Crystal capacity
• Exclusive access to unique Crown Store deals

Only the unique crown store deals and the free crowns couldn't be moved to the crown store. Everything else could be.

Someone in another thread proposed bundling the craft bag and other perks in with the season pass, and I like that idea too. So if you bought the season pass, you'd also be getting ESO+ for that season. Given how overpriced the season pass is, that would add value to it.

In any event, I think ESO+ needs another look.

SilverBride wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Someone in another thread proposed bundling the craft bag and other perks in with the season pass, and I like that idea too. So if you bought the season pass, you'd also be getting ESO+ for that season. Given how overpriced the season pass is, that would add value to it.

If all the ESO+ perks are taken away no one would subscribe any more, and someone needs to help keep the lights on. If they do that then they should go back to requiring a subscription to play.

ZOS makes what, 17 million a month on ESO. None of us have their numbers, but I am betting most of the money is made from the crown store.

If ESO+ disappeared tomorrow they would still make enough to keep the lights on, and continue development for the game.

SilverBride wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Someone in another thread proposed bundling the craft bag and other perks in with the season pass, and I like that idea too. So if you bought the season pass, you'd also be getting ESO+ for that season. Given how overpriced the season pass is, that would add value to it.

If all the ESO+ perks are taken away no one would subscribe any more, and someone needs to help keep the lights on. If they do that then they should go back to requiring a subscription to play.

I'm not proposing that they remove all the perks and keep ESO+. I'm proposing that they get rid of ESO+ and move what they can to the crown store.

As for keeping the lights on, if subscribers truly were keeping the lights on, I'd expect to be treated better. The way ZOS treats subscribers leads me to believe that the game's primary source of revenue comes from elsewhere (the crown store).

SilverBride wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Someone in another thread proposed bundling the craft bag and other perks in with the season pass, and I like that idea too. So if you bought the season pass, you'd also be getting ESO+ for that season. Given how overpriced the season pass is, that would add value to it.

If all the ESO+ perks are taken away no one would subscribe any more...

And that is exactly why people are complaining. You may value the various perks differently, but perks are taken away.

And I will certainly reorganise my stuff and stop subscribing if things stay as they are right now.

So far, by the way, we also haven't heard any clear confirmation that this season's content will come to ESO+ next year. And I will definitely not just trust them on this one.

Wuduwasa13 wrote: »

Subscription needs a dramatic overhaul and there needs to be a better loyalty reward programme implemented.

People who have been subbed for years deserve a more privileged experience in game, whether that is an annual bump up on crowns or varying tiers of discount, not only on crown store items, but on season passes etc.

I’d even go so far as to suggest eso + exclusives in the form of subbed-only golden pursuits, endeavour rewards etc.

Doubtless we would hear some complaints of ‘that’s not fair!’, but it is, because the people privy to such are those who have earned reciprocity through their loyalty and commitment to the game / studio.

They added the Furnishing Vault as an ESO+ perk.

SilverBride wrote: »

They added the Furnishing Vault as an ESO+ perk.

Yes they did, a completely perfunctory addition to anyone who does not actively do anything housing related & arguably a somewhat meagre addition to those who do.

Edit: in the interest of offering some solutions, an option here that would have gone far would have been to allow choices for subbed users. Do you want a furnishing vault? Or if you aren’t into housing, how about free wayshrine travel. Still no? How about a small mark up in your crowns?

Small gestures and tokens of consideration that carry tremendous weight as a marker of appreciation

AzuraFan wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Another idea would be to scrap it and just put the craft bag, etc., into the crown store. But if they don't want to do that, yeah, offering a year's access to the craft bag and other perks as part of a season pass would also work.

No.

ESO+ is a lot more than just the craft bag. It's all of these and I don't want to lose any of them.

• Access to all DLC game pack
• Access to the Furniture Vault
• Free crowns for the in-game Crown Store
• Access to the Craft Bag
• Double bank space
• 10% increase to Experience & Gold acquisition, Crafting Inspiration, Trait Research, and Archival Fortunes acquisition rates
• Bonuses to progression
• Increased Furniture placement limits
• Costume dyeing
• Double Transmute Crystal capacity
• Exclusive access to unique Crown Store deals

Only the unique crown store deals and the free crowns couldn't be moved to the crown store. Everything else could be.

Someone in another thread proposed bundling the craft bag and other perks in with the season pass, and I like that idea too. So if you bought the season pass, you'd also be getting ESO+ for that season. Given how overpriced the season pass is, that would add value to it.

In any event, I think ESO+ needs another look.

Don't forget this is a transitional period. The merging of the season pass and ESO+ maybe what they have in mind.

Obviuosly that wasn't doable at the moment due to people already having ESO+ active. They need to give us time to change if they go forwrd with that.

Tyralbin wrote: »

Don't forget this is a transitional period. The merging of the season pass and ESO+ maybe what they have in mind.

Obviuosly that wasn't doable at the moment due to people already having ESO+ active. They need to give us time to change if they go forwrd with that.

I don't think they're considering merging them. Regardless, it would have been easy for them to offer a content pass with the dungeons and a content pass without. There's no excuse for that.

And frankly, I don't think that I, as a subscriber, should have to suck it up because it's a transitional year. They've had months to come up with the monetization for seasons. I'm not going to make excuses for them.

I plan to stay subscribed as long as I play.

Ezhh wrote: »

The problem is that the odds of them changing things or adding different packages as options are tiny now, simply because people, including Plus subscribers, will already have pre-purchased the current offering. These people would then in turn complain that they paid more/had less choice and they'd be right to do so.

ZOS was no doubt aware that many players would be upset by this and decided those players don't matter enough to provide more palatable options for them.

It didn't have to be like this. It could have been handled in a way that would have made them a lot of money without losing the goodwill of so many players. But here we are.

Quite literally this. They could have handled this MUCH better -- people are voting with wallets and refusing to buy the content pass and cancelling ESO+ they literally caused this themselves.

As I see it, the content pass is bundled chapter and dungeon pack rolled into one with pay up front and content drip fed over time. So you cannot check a review and see if the purchase price is worthwhile, and with server events to build FOMO.

While ESO+ will get you access to some of this (the dungeon pack), if you want to play the others you need to also buy the dungeon pack (regardless if you already have access as a ESO+ subscriber or not).

Otherwise the value of ESO+ is:

Problems invented to sell a solution:
- Access to the Furniture Vault
- Access to the Craft Bag
- Double bank space
- Increased Furniture placement limits
- Costume dyeing
- Double Transmute Crystal capacity

Pay to "win" (not in the sense of power but time value):
- 10% increase to Experience & Gold acquisition, Crafting Inspiration, Trait Research, and Archival Fortunes acquisition rates
- Bonuses to progression

And then some actual benefits:
- Access to legacy DLC (and new DLC if you are not already buying new chapters/content-passes).
- Free crowns for the in-game Crown Store (I don't like the word free here, it is part of the purchase)
- Exclusive access to unique Crown Store deals

AzuraFan wrote: »

Tyralbin wrote: »

Don't forget this is a transitional period. The merging of the season pass and ESO+ maybe what they have in mind.

Obviuosly that wasn't doable at the moment due to people already having ESO+ active. They need to give us time to change if they go forwrd with that.

I don't think they're considering merging them. Regardless, it would have been easy for them to offer a content pass with the dungeons and a content pass without. There's no excuse for that.

If the merging of story and dungeons under the banner of "Content" is the point of the transition, then removing dungeons from the Content Pass would effectively negate that point.

Perhaps what they could have done was offer a discounted Content Pass as a courtesy for those who subbed for the year. Effectively the same as what you're suggesting but with the nuance that it's a concession for existing subscribers, while still committing to the new system.

I personally am fine with the system they're suggesting because the furniture vault is something I've been looking forward to, but for those who don't need it, I guess I can understand their frustration with the increased cost.