What's the point in ESO+ now?

spartaxoxo · April 11

licenturion wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

-snipped quote for brevity-

licenturion wrote: »

New stuff costs money to create, people need to be paid, servers need to paid etc. So it makes sense they ask extra money if you want to play the latest and greatest.

I mean many games are just free-to-play and get by just fine. This game made billions on the old model. I don't think this was necessary.

Yeah stuff like Overwatch and Warzone. But PvE story content is usually not free. Overwatch 2 also charged for story content. And so do other games that offer extra story content. That stuff takes a lot of time and money to create compared to a new multiplayer map every 3 months.

They could make Cyro and Battlegrounds F2P

There's plenty of free to play MMOs?

Syldras · April 11

Tandor wrote: »

Can you stack a thousand chairs in any of those? Plus 499 stacks of other items?

"The chairs. The tables. All confused. We hear the words, and must speak them. We take them, and arrange them, but still, they will not be quiet."

Anyway, I really hope for an option to just buy the chapter and story dlc... sorry, I mean "Story Part 2".

Bethgael · April 11

The only thing I would like to add to the above is this: for any sales model that relies on customers (such as gaming), reducing choice and current value is always a Bad Idea. Even if you don't increase value, you should never reduce value.

Especially when the model relies on a non-tangible product (such as pixels) and word of mouth (players). It's not the same feel as "eh, isn't my snickers smaller than it was 5 years ago?" [It is, but it's clearly marked as such on grams or ounces. For BBC watchers, other chocolate bars may be available

].

Even when you try to do devalue creep by stealth. Like, for example, removing boxes from valuable subscriber customers (ie, those who get you your regular income, unlike the ups and downs of your player whales) during free times, then making the freebie furnishings (statues/paintings) every 45+ days instead of every month/30 days, then adding new crown store items at a much higher rate than before, essentially devaluing the free crowns, then removing a story chapter, then bundling stuff subscribers already pay for into content they need to pay for--essentially making every subscriber pay for this content twice. Devalue creep is insidious, and companies think we don't notice.

We noticed. This year, instead of pre-ordering, I will be catching up on older content and waiting to buy the "chapter" content until next year, when it is added to ESO+ or until it's on sale or available for my "free" crowns. I don't have FOMO. I can wait.

WhiteScythe · April 11

> The only thing I would like to add to the above is this: for any sales model that relies on customers (such as gaming), reducing choice and current value is always a Bad Idea. Even if you don't increase value, you should never reduce value.

This exactly. They are reducing value with ESO+ from this content pass business model. Unfortunately.. people will vote with their wallets like I have.

Pevey · April 11

The more ESO+ is distilled down into just a partial solution (craft bag) to an artificially created problem, the more players can see how bad of a look it is for ZOS. And the more they don't want to shell out. I want to support the game. But I don't like supporting this form of monetization. It has hurt the game so much over the years by creating such mal-incentives for the dev team. Items have proliferated unnecessarily. The crafting material system has long needed to be streamlined. People spend very little time now at levels below cp160, certainly very little at 1-50. This is very different from when the game was first released. But there is no incentive to get rid of the bloated crafting materials system and every incentive to make it worse each year. This works in the opposite direction of making the game more fun. It purposely downgrades the game experience because they chose a poor monetization path.

BretonMage · April 11

I missed the stream and quickly read through the FAQs, and tbh it doesn't look like much has changed.

ESO+ remains largely the same, but with a furniture vault. That's good news to me.

Content Pass is basically like buying the collector's edition of the yearly chapter.

SalamanNZ · April 11

I do not care for furniture storage. I have 3 houses for that. I care about my craft bag and crowns. They can't upgrade the infinite craft bag but they can give me more crowns or at least increase the discount to 50% to 70% for crown items instead of %10 when items are discounted

TaSheen · April 11

This sort of stuff just does not work for me.

Tyralbin · April 11

Don't know if I missed this but, ESO+ remains the same.

You still get all the content you had before.

The season pass only covers the new content.

When the next season is activated all this seasons stuff becomes active for ESO+.

The only thing you will be missing out on is some stuff that drops if you do the season whilst it's active.

Whilst you will get the previous chapters with the season pass other stuff like the old dlcs won't be unlocked (I think).

The_Oakster · April 11

Tyralbin wrote: »

Don't know if I missed this but, ESO+ remains the same.

You still get all the content you had before.

The season pass only covers the new content.

When the next season is activated all this seasons stuff becomes active for ESO+.

The only thing you will be missing out on is some stuff that drops if you do the season whilst it's active.

Whilst you will get the previous chapters with the season pass other stuff like the old dlcs won't be unlocked (I think).

I think this is right. There is nowhere on the new season passes that says you get past DLC's, just the past chapters. You also get the free crowns with ESO+ as well as the craft bag, new furniture vault etc.

I was confused as the posts and topics were all saying that you got ALL the past content with the seasons pass and therefore overlapped with ESO+ but I don't think it does.

Or am I still reading it wrong?

Tyralbin · April 11

The_Oakster wrote: »

Tyralbin wrote: »

Don't know if I missed this but, ESO+ remains the same.

You still get all the content you had before.

The season pass only covers the new content.

When the next season is activated all this seasons stuff becomes active for ESO+.

The only thing you will be missing out on is some stuff that drops if you do the season whilst it's active.

Whilst you will get the previous chapters with the season pass other stuff like the old dlcs won't be unlocked (I think).

I think this is right. There is nowhere on the new season passes that says you get past DLC's, just the past chapters. You also get the free crowns with ESO+ as well as the craft bag, new furniture vault etc.

I was confused as the posts and topics were all saying that you got ALL the past content with the seasons pass and therefore overlapped with ESO+ but I don't think it does.

Or am I still reading it wrong?

Nope, you're not reading it wrong

Though reading my original post I did forget to mention about getting the previous chapters.

Luke_Flamesword · April 11

I stop playing two months ago, now I'm here just to see if it's worth it to back.

Nope...

I was frustrated with last year and half of usual content, now they cut it even more and yet charge even more! There is not even a big new feature, because subclassing is more QoL change then whole new system to design and execute. They selling it like big feature, because it will have big impact for game, but technically it's nothing big at all.

Eso+ is a joke - it cost 2 AAA games a year for craft and furniture bag, house and bank slots and some crowns to buy couple a things. I would play without it, but blocking housing and annoyance with materials is deal breaker for me. Season pass brings even more FOMO and that's for me main reason to leave. Events, Golden pursuits, Endavours, daily rewards, timed rewards, timed crown store items, now season pass with missable event nad probably some rewards. When game forces so much FOMO, you loose interest in playing.

Of course, I can ignore it all of it and just play, but then I loose a lot of interest in playing. I won't so much just for another zone and same story repeated another time - yeah Rich even spoiled it at Direct, but we saw it so many times it's not spoiler - we have ANOTHER evil cult and big battle at the end, yay. They change details and background, but main core stays the same every year.

I hate to leave game, because I really loved to playing it, but it just cost so much, giving so little in return and feeding with instant FOMO for which I'm sadly vulnerable. For me it becames an unhealthy relationship. In normal world thing like eso+ with this price should include all content, most crown store features (slots, tokens, asistants, etc.), but in this case no - you have to pay eso+, season pass and still have crown store with model similiar for f2p games. It's just using fact that people love elder scrolls...

The_Oakster · April 11

So from reading this thread again, it seems that because the new season pass will include the new dungeons as stated here:

With the 2025 Content Pass, discover four major content updates, featuring a world-changing in-game event where you and your fellow players must stand against the Worm Cult and breach the Writhing Wall! Includes two dungeon packs (four new dungeons total), two-part story content, the in-game event, and a brand-new zone to explore.

There will be an overlap in the future as these would have been available to ESO+ without buying the season pass (2 of course are available already). So its a future overlap? I don't know how this worked previously as I thought that whenever you bought the new zone you got the new dungeons anyway or do people that currently buy The Gold Road, but don't have an ESO+ subscription, not have access to the two dungeons?

Rittings · April 11

I do feel that ESO+ has been massively devalued. Now it's just a craft bag with a few crowns thrown in. It does have you questioning the value of it. Whilst I appreciate the expansion cost vs the content pass are similar, and you get the content in that pass included - it means that players are now forced into buying the expansion to obtain everything within the year.

If they are suggesting both the content pass AND eso+ get the dungeons, then that's double dipping on the same product.

The concepts they've come up with are impressive (on the surface, having obviously not experienced them in action, let's not forget a showcase is a sales pitch as much as anything else), but the bottom line is the value to us the consumers... and that's been thrown into question already. I hope they take note of this.... especially since they spoke of even shorter "seasons" in the future - which means even more wallet wear for us, the customers. They are a business, blah blah blah, I get that - and fully support them, as I have financially for 10 years (well, 9 because I took a year out having quit over bot interference lol), but hopefully they respect us and offer more the plus users - even if that's a boost in monthly crowns, or some extra exclusives... otherwise we've lost value in our sub, and nothing has replaced it - meaning surely the price should either go down, or they add more to it per month.

PapaTankers · April 11

Value proposition of content pass feels crazy to me here.
So if its true that its a smaller zone that would be more akin to southern elsweyr or murkmire, then that would quanitify it as a smaller zone dlc that would already be included in +.
Dungeons are included in +.
So what I see it as is drip feeding us content in way smaller scale and then asking an insne price tag for what should be included with + in the first place.
Thanks, but ill pass. If you are going to downscale that hard then you can also downscale on prices.

The_Oakster · April 11

ESO+ gives you a lot still but YMMV as to whether you personally value them:

Full access to all DLC game packs available in the Crown Store — new zones, quests, and dungeons!
1650 crowns per month to spend in the in-game Crown Store.
Access to exclusive Crown Store offers and deals.
Unlimited storage for crafting materials with the Craft Bag.
Double Bank space for your account.
10% increase to Experience, Gold, Alliance Points (Currency, PvP Skill Lines, and Alliance rank only), Tel Var Stones (monster kills only), Archival Fortunes acquisition, Crafting Inspiration, and Trait Research speed.
Double Furnishings and Collectibles space in your homes.
Double currency cap for Transmutation Crystals.
Exclusive ability to dye costumes.

In the future, you will also get the Furniture Vault (again YMMV as to whether this is of value). And although it does look like ESO+ won't be the only way to access the dungeons (without specifically buying the DLC in the crown store), you will still have access to the old DLC's which the Season Pass doesn't seem to offer.

IMO it will still be worth it.

Eliahnus · April 11

As I see it, ZOS now gives additional content for non ESO+ members.
Meaning that the value op ESO+ is lowered; it is as simple as that.

Orbital78 · April 11

majulook wrote: »

I am confused
1. ESO+ and this GamePass are separate and always or will be. So it does not become available as part of ESO+ in 2026?

2. Its not a Chapter or a DLC its another thing with separate purchase requirement?

I forget how they worded it but they had content already in the works, this is a transition year. It is kind of a chapter and a dlc, though I am not sure how large the zone is and all that. It does have a trial, I assume two public dungeons to follow standard. Two sets of two dungeons are included.

I am not sure what next year will look like for a "season" though. Personally I would wait until PTS'ers get more information out to make any decisions.

Eliahnus wrote: »

As I see it, ZOS now gives additional content for non ESO+ members.
Meaning that the value op ESO+ is lowered; it is as simple as that.

This is how it has always been, I don't understand the confusion. To get the content players are already paying $40+ (basically a chapter that includes the year's dungeons). They are also adding a furnishing storage as well, aren't you gaining value? Personally juicing up ESO+ with even more crowns and such, I would take it. As it is ESO+ is nearly required to play the game as it is.

Hotdog_23 · April 11

Since the dungeons are now included in Season Pass. ESO+ members should get a $10 dollar discount on the season pass if they have an active ESO+ subscription at the time they buy the season pass. Too late for this year, but do it next year, ZOS. Sure, they could do it this year, but there is no way they are going to refund people that have already purchased the season Pass for this year.

Furnishing vault is nothing, in my opinion. Now people have been asking for a furnishing bag for a long time, and I am glad they are getting something, but the value is not there compared to what we used to get for having ESO+.

Stay safe

dcrush · April 11

It’s essentially a continuation of the shrinkflation model ESO has been following for a while now. Less content for higher prices, and content bundled together to make it seem like more while taking away the option to buy only what you like. I’ve been buying the chapters every year since Greymoor. If I’m being forced to buy the dungeons in the same pack and there’s no way to buy the chapter without the dungeons then I guess this year will be the first year I’m not buying the new chapter 🤷🏻‍♂️

Good luck with this model, ZOS.

Tandor · April 11

AzuraFan wrote: »

licenturion wrote: »

So you basically get so much value and server space for basically nothing. Yet a lot of people expect almost all of the new content to be included and so basically 'free.' New stuff costs money to create, people need to be paid, servers need to paid etc. So it makes sense they ask extra money if you want to play the latest and greatest.

Many subscribers were buying the annual chapters as soon as they were released. So to suggest that ESO+ subscribers don't want to pay extra money to play the latest and greatest is wrong. What we don't want to do is be taken advantage of by being asked to pay for something we already have access to through our subscription. And if we don't pay up, then we have to wait a year to play the content (if, indeed, the season pass content becomes part of the sub after a year. I don't know if it does).

I'm a subscriber, but I've always bought the annual chapter - preordered it, most of the time. This time, if I want access to the new content at release, I have to pay for content that I'm already paying for as part of my sub.

That may just be a one-off thing as this year is described as having a transitional arrangement between the old and new business/development models. We'll see how it turns out next year.

AusarViled · April 11

licenturion wrote: »

U get a furnishing bag extra.

agelonestar wrote: »

From what I can tell, ESO+ is now exclusively a storage management perk.

They have the data.

The fact that they hammered explicitly on the fact that 'you own this stuff' in the stream. And the whole dungeon pack thing that also got a mention and unleashed a whole storm online makes me feel like they acknowledge the players who like to buy stuff are a vast majority.

So it seems like the strategy is now: content = buying and services = ESO+

In a way this makes sense. If you saw in the intro video how big the team is. If they give all the new content for free + the value fully back in crowns to spend (like a lot seem to want here), they basically earn almost nothing for all the work they put in the game from plus members. People and servers need to get paid if you want new content down the line.

I have never bought ESO+ and I refuse to pay for any subscription. As long as I can be gifted the content pass indirectly by people who own it - i got no problems with this via crown trading. I would assume the vast majority of players are off the same opinion. This feature then must be directed at players such as myself. Never pay a sub if you can earn it for free.

Elsonso · April 11

BretonMage wrote: »

I missed the stream and quickly read through the FAQs, and tbh it doesn't look like much has changed.

ESO+ remains largely the same, but with a furniture vault. That's good news to me.

Content Pass is basically like buying the collector's edition of the yearly chapter.

I think what has been noticed is that the business model of the game changed, but they left ESO Plus largely the same.

What I notice is that ESO Plus has a portion of the payment for the purpose of getting access to Fallen Banners and Feast of Shadows. If the player also purchases the 2025 Content, then a portion of that payment is also for Fallen Banners and Feast of Shadows. Effectively, those players are paying money for the four dungeons twice this year, and in exchange for that, they got a furniture cabinet that can hold any number of up to 500 items.

(I am pretty sure that 500 item stacks is not going to be enough for some players, by the way. One of the things that the devs said in the past is that furniture tends to be a lot of low duplicate items)

I get that this is a 'transition year', but it just seems like they didn't really think all this through before sending it.

daemondamian · April 11

Is the furniture vault specifically for furnishing items or for anything that takes up a bank slot?

I already have enough houses with room to spare for tons of furniture that I might use someday for something so extra storage available in the home for all items (like the chests) would be far more valuable to me.

Scraelos · April 11

DenverRalphy wrote: »

It's exactly the same as it's always been.

Realistically all they did was rename the purchase from Chapter to Content Pass. Probably because they won't be releasing all new content in one big update with that purchase. So each year you buy one content pass, and all content/updates throughout the year are included. Other than that, everything operates exactly like it always has.

looks like we have to pay additional subscription each year

darvaria · April 11

As long as that craft bag is tied to ESO plus, I'll always sub .... provided I still care about doing endeavors. The craft bag keeps a lot of ESO plus subs.

SilverBride · April 11

I will stay subscribed because I find all the perks valuable, but I am undecided on whether or not to buy the content pass yet. Three of my seven characters still have not completed all the zones, which is something I like to do, so I have plenty to keep me busy. In fact I have not had as much time to quest like I used to because of all the events and Golden Pursuits and decorating my houses and other distractions. And the free mounts and pets and emotes other perks of purchasing this now don't really appeal to me. So I'm still undecided.

JemadarofCaerSalis · April 11

Still can't find a definitive answer, but I will stay subscribed, as long as the new content will eventually be folded into plus.

The craft bag, furniture bag, and all the other perks are nice, but I originally subscribed because it meant getting all the perks, plus crowns plus access to all the content, minus the newest, that was released.

sans-culottes · April 11

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The crafting bag, furniture vault, and access to all those old small zone dlcs. Also the amount of crowns you get is reasonably close to par with what it would cost to just buy those crowns.

ETA

If that's not enough, well, back when they first announced ESO+ was losing value with the removal of the small zone dlcs, players made it clear that they consider ESO+ to just be the crafting bag. I hope this time goes different but can't say that I am surprised they believed the community consensus was that ESO+ was basically just storage and crowns after that thread.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The crafting bag, furniture vault, and access to all those old small zone dlcs. Also the amount of crowns you get is reasonably close to par with what it would cost to just buy those crowns.

One other option is to very much increase the crown allocation but, lest we forget, and I don't know what it costs in other currencies, ESO+ is 105 pounds per year if bought on a yearly basis. It's 120 pounds per year if bought monthly. That is A LOT of money to get round artificial inventory limitations and revisit old content.

The pricing on this seems seriously wrong. Perhaps subscriptions to ESO+ of three months above should come with a heavy discount on the content pass, and six months and above it should be included "free". It just feels crazy. And it was already starting to feel crazy before.

(Re your added paragraph, I've very often worried that devs pay too much attention to this (by definition limited slice of the playerbase) forum. I hope that isn't what happened.)

I agree the pricing is too steep with Plus.

To address your last point, I don't think it's what happened in a vacuum. If I had to guess the conversations were probably alongside the lines of something like "We need to be speedier with putting things out there and updating the game so Chapters have gots to go. Oh, but now ESO+ is gutted. Let's do the furniture vault like we did way back in the day with crafting bag. It's a perk that makes sense to our existing monetization strategies that have been successful in the past. Many players have expressed they're mostly subbed for the craft bag anyway."

That would be my guess as to how this ended up happening the way they did. Past success + legitimate needs + player feedback on Plus. I very much doubt they saw that thread and took it as green light of some sort.

But I don't work for ZOS so I can only speculate as to how this happened. I don't know what happened. I just know I had a bad feeling about that being the feedback and everything that has happened since then has only reinforced those feelings.

Great points as usual, @spartaxoxo. This was an unfortunate decision on ZOS’s part.

Ilsabet · April 11

The_Oakster wrote: »

I don't know how this worked previously as I thought that whenever you bought the new zone you got the new dungeons anyway or do people that currently buy The Gold Road, but don't have an ESO+ subscription, not have access to the two dungeons?

The bolded statement is correct. As stand-alone purchases, chapters and dungeon DLCs have always been separate things. Buying the chapter doesn't automatically grant access to the dungeons. You would need to have ESO+ or buy the dungeon DLC separately to access them.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

I didn't catch the stream, so it took me a minute to figure out the issue. It's not that ESO+ has lost access to anything, the DLC dungeon access is still a thing. It's that the content of the new area and dungeon packs are now bundled. The content pass is on the pricier side, especially as I don't care about the dungeons either way, but that's an issue with the bundling and not with ESO+.

You're absolutely right. If they hadn't included the dungeons in the content pass, nobody would be complaining.

They should have offered the dungeons separately. Not everyone wants the dungeons, but now they have to pay for them to get access to the new zone. And subscribers certainly don't want to have to pay for them because they already have access to them.

The prices are the same as if you'd purchased a chapter. The results are exactly the same. Before: Dungeons are available to ESO+ Subscribers OR Chapter Owners. After: Subsitute the words "Content Pass" in place of Chapter and it's still true. You can also purchase the dungeons from the crown store if you don't want ESO+ or the whole chapter/content-pass.

Last year when I pre-ordered Gold Road (the regular upgrade version, not the deluxe/collectors' edition), it cost $40 USD. The upgrade 2025 Content Pass will cost $50 USD. So I most definitely will need to pay more for the story content this year, on top of my sub. If the justification for the higher price is that there is more content included in the package, but some of that content is already available to me thanks to my sub, then it does feel like paying twice for the same content. If the extra value is supposed to come from the bonus collectibles that are apparently included with every version of the pass, then I'd rather at least have the option to forego those shinies and pay the old chapter price for the content I care about.

I'll probably still get the Content Pass because I'll want to get in on the story without having to wait for a sale, but I'd feel better about this new system if it didn't involve forking over an extra $10 on top of what I'm already paying for my sub.