AzuraFan wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

I didn't catch the stream, so it took me a minute to figure out the issue. It's not that ESO+ has lost access to anything, the DLC dungeon access is still a thing. It's that the content of the new area and dungeon packs are now bundled. The content pass is on the pricier side, especially as I don't care about the dungeons either way, but that's an issue with the bundling and not with ESO+.

You're absolutely right. If they hadn't included the dungeons in the content pass, nobody would be complaining.

They should have offered the dungeons separately. Not everyone wants the dungeons, but now they have to pay for them to get access to the new zone. And subscribers certainly don't want to have to pay for them because they already have access to them.

The prices are the same as if you'd purchased a chapter. The results are exactly the same. Before: Dungeons are available to ESO+ Subscribers OR Chapter Owners. After: Subsitute the words "Content Pass" in place of Chapter and it's still true. You can also purchase the dungeons from the crown store if you don't want ESO+ or the whole chapter/content-pass.

So what's different? Nothing, except for a one time delay for the Crown Store release of the Dungeons Pack to avoid players purchasing the dungeons onlyl to discover that they can purchase the content pass immediately which includes them. Going forward it'll be back to their normal release cycle for the Crown Store.

metheglyn wrote: »

licenturion wrote: »

U get a furnishing bag extra.

agelonestar wrote: »

From what I can tell, ESO+ is now exclusively a storage management perk.

They have the data.

The fact that they hammered explicitly on the fact that 'you own this stuff' in the stream. And the whole dungeon pack thing that also got a mention and unleashed a whole storm online makes me feel like they acknowledge the players who like to buy stuff are a vast majority.

So it seems like the strategy is now: content = buying and services = ESO+

In a way this makes sense. If you saw in the intro video how big the team is. If they give all the new content for free + the value fully back in crowns to spend (like a lot seem to want here), they basically earn almost nothing for all the work they put in the game from plus members. People and servers need to get paid if you want new content down the line.

I know the people who work on this game need to get paid. Paying for ESO+ and a chapter every year wasn't asking for anything for free.

Right now, I have access to two of the dungeons in the bundle because I subscribe to this game. Why, exactly, should I pay for those dungeons again?

The value of ESO+ for me has always been partly craft bag, partly the extra storage space, and partly the DLC content, both dungeon and story. Now the dungeons and story are in the season pass, making ESO+ lose value for me.

I would much prefer if the upcoming content also had a non-bundled option, so I could choose what I wanted to buy.

Exactly! If I buy the season pass, my ESO+ is worth less than someone who doesn't because I've had to pay for what they're getting free

Edit to say I don't begrudge people getting it free, I begrudge having to pay for content I wouldn't have chosen to buy

lillybit wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Wuduwasa13 wrote: »

We have storage vaults already they’re called unused houses.

Can you stack a thousand chairs in any of those? Plus 499 stacks of other items?

Do you have 1000 chairs? I know i don't and don't see any reason I would want or need to

Is it coincidence they mentioned the Daedric Thrones specifically when those were accidentally released for free on the lux vendor and some people picked up thousands of them?

virtus753 wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Wuduwasa13 wrote: »

We have storage vaults already they’re called unused houses.

Can you stack a thousand chairs in any of those? Plus 499 stacks of other items?

Do you have 1000 chairs? I know i don't and don't see any reason I would want or need to

Is it coincidence they mentioned the Daedric Thrones specifically when those were accidentally released for free on the lux vendor and some people picked up thousands of them?

I only got 50, they take up 1 slot in a chest so don't need a vault for them

licenturion wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

The Gold Road Upgrade is £24.99, whereas the 2025 Content Pass (not the premium edition) is £42.99.

You have to compare the new release with the release price of Gold Road Upgrade.

According to steamDB Gold Road Upgrade was on release 33.39 pounds and this did not included the 2 extra companions and the extra dungeon pack. So the price of the new content pass is in line with chapter price if you consider the content.

It's in line if you would normally buy the dungeons too. If you always get them too it's great. If you don't, it's a very expensive tiny zone

lillybit wrote: »

It's in line if you would normally buy the dungeons too. If you always get them too it's great. If you don't, it's a very expensive tiny zone

We know the size Monday when it goes on PTS, so I still wait before buying.

But I assume the zone and dungeons will be part of ESO+ as well next year when the next pass releases. Has always been like this with chapters and pretty sure this will stay the same like it always has. So if you don't buy the pass you will get everything 'for free' next year (zone and dungeons). Plus all the extra stuff that goes with ESO+ like extra XP, shorter timers, bags, dye for costumes, double bank space etc

So... ESO+ is now called Season Pass? Is that it?

ines2015 wrote: »

So... ESO+ is now called Season Pass? Is that it?

No, ESO+ remains the same (but with the furnishing vault included) while the Content Pass replaces the Chapter cost (as there will be no Chapters) and covers all new content for the year including permanent access to the dungeons which were previously only rented while you subbed.

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

I don't know what it costs in other currencies, but the price is nearly double what it cost to purchase a chapter for me.

The Gold Road Upgrade is £24.99, whereas the 2025 Content Pass (not the premium edition) is £42.99.

But is that this year's price for the Gold Road Upgrade, or the original pre-purchase price for the Gold Road Upgrade last year? The chapter price was always highest for pre-purchasing or buying shortly after release, then dropped later in the year after the chapter had been out for several months.

That is exactly what I tried to explain. Gold Road Upgrade base price has now dropped in price permanently since release. And sometimes it is in sale as well. Is was a bit unfair unfair to compare a pre-order with something that is almost a year old and reduced in price.

AzuraFan wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

The prices are the same as if you'd purchased a chapter. The results are exactly the same. Before: Dungeons are available to ESO+ Subscribers OR Chapter Owners. After: Subsitute the words "Content Pass" in place of Chapter and it's still true. You can also purchase the dungeons from the crown store if you don't want ESO+ or the whole chapter/content-pass.

The dungeons have never been available to chapter owners. They've always been available as a separate DLC, which ESO+ subscribers got as part of their subscription. Non-subscribers had to pay for them.

What's different now? Non-subscribers get them thrown in for free as part of the content pass, effectively rendering that perk null and void for ESO+.

This is not true. The FAQ they put up state that ESO+ subscribers still get those new dungeons for free day 1 with ESO+ even without the Content Pass/Chapter. They also state that the dungeons will also be for sale separately in the crown store. This is just like before.

Also people keep talking about 'the free second zone' they lose. There is no second zone coming. Steam store page clearly outlines Explore the second half of the new zone and bring the Seasons of the Worm Cult saga to its ultimate conclusion.. So 1 big chapter zone, split in 2 pieces with that wall event.

Non subscribers don't get it for free either. We pay more than the Gold Road chapter price. That Chapter was cheaper but didn't have dungeons and companions included. Non subs pay more now, but also get more. I do understand this is a bit of bad move for people that are not interested in dungeons at all, but do have to pay for them now anyway.

Also pretty sure the new zone will be free for ESO+ owners next year too, like they have been doing with chapters for years.

I didn't see the stream but from what I'm reading it sounds like ZOS need to have a serious rethink of this, because the only advantages to ESO+ now sound like the crafting bag and the higher housing items limit, both of which are completely artificial limitations purely designed to make you hand over money to get rid of them.

Oh, and a housing vault, which makes me laugh as I joked a while back that ZOS would in some way charge for a furniture storage lorry. Well, surprise, they have.

Frankly, it would make me feel like an (I) diot to pay for ESO+.

At the very least, a discount on the content pass should be offered.

licenturion wrote: »

Non subscribers don't get it for free either. We pay more than the Gold Road chapter price. That Chapter was cheaper but didn't have dungeons and companions included. Non subs pay more now, but also get more.

Also pretty sure the new zone will be free for ESO+ owners next year too, like they have been doing with chapters for years.

-and-

lillybit wrote: »

Except they aren't "thrown in for free" are they, they're included in the inflated price. You pay for them whether you want them or not, while people who don't want the zone do get them free with their plus

They're thrown in for free in the sense that subscribers pay the same price as non-subscribers, even though subscribers already have access to some of the content as part of their subscription.

For example, a subscriber pays $50 and gets access to A, B, and C. A non-subscriber pays $50 and gets access to A, B, C, D, and E. The non-subscriber is effectively getting D and E for free, compared to the subscriber. That's what I mean by "thrown in for free". I'm looking at it from the perspective of a subscriber. Of course, a non-subscriber isn't getting it for free. But they are certainly getting more value for their money.

What ZOS is doing to subscribers is double-dipping.

I agree with you that it would have been much better if ZOS had offered versions for purchase: one pass that includes the dungeons, and one pass that doesn't. I also agree that the pass is expensive.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The crafting bag, furniture vault, and access to all those old small zone dlcs. Also the amount of crowns you get is reasonably close to par with what it would cost to just buy those crowns.

Yeah this is what I never understand when it comes to ESO+

You can buy the base game for 3 dollars a lot of the time.

If you get ESO+, you basically get fully refunded with crowns to spend on DLC or other goodies in games. And you get access to 10 years of DLC and a bunch of extra in-game boons.

So you basically get so much value and server bandwidth for basically nothing. Yet a lot of people expect almost all of the new content to be included and so basically 'free.' New stuff costs money to create, those 50+ people from the live stream need to be paid, servers need to paid and those PVP playtests don't run themselves etc. So it makes sense they ask extra money if you want to play the latest and greatest.

licenturion wrote: »

So you basically get so much value and server space for basically nothing. Yet a lot of people expect almost all of the new content to be included and so basically 'free.' New stuff costs money to create, people need to be paid, servers need to paid etc. So it makes sense they ask extra money if you want to play the latest and greatest.

Many subscribers were buying the annual chapters as soon as they were released. So to suggest that ESO+ subscribers don't want to pay extra money to play the latest and greatest is wrong. What we don't want to do is be taken advantage of by being asked to pay for something we already have access to through our subscription. And if we don't pay up, then we have to wait a year to play the content (if, indeed, the season pass content becomes part of the sub after a year. I don't know if it does).

I'm a subscriber, but I've always bought the annual chapter - preordered it, most of the time. This time, if I want access to the new content at release, I have to pay for content that I'm already paying for as part of my sub.

Northwold wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The crafting bag, furniture vault, and access to all those old small zone dlcs. Also the amount of crowns you get is reasonably close to par with what it would cost to just buy those crowns.

One other option is to very much increase the crown allocation but, lest we forget, and I don't know what it costs in other currencies, ESO+ is 105 pounds per year if bought on a yearly basis. It's 120 pounds per year if bought monthly. That is A LOT of money to get round artificial inventory limitations and revisit old content.

The pricing on this seems seriously wrong. Perhaps subscriptions to ESO+ of three months above should come with a heavy discount on the content pass, and six months and above it should be included "free". It just feels crazy. And it was already starting to feel crazy before.

(Re your added paragraph, I've very often worried that devs pay too much attention to this (by definition limited slice of the playerbase) forum. I hope that isn't what happened.)

I agree the pricing is too steep with Plus.

To address your last point, I don't think it's what happened in a vacuum. If I had to guess the conversations were probably alongside the lines of something like "We need to be speedier with putting things out there and updating the game so Chapters have gots to go. Oh, but now ESO+ is gutted. Let's do the furniture vault like we did way back in the day with crafting bag. It's a perk that makes sense to our existing monetization strategies that have been successful in the past. Many players have expressed they're mostly subbed for the craft bag anyway."

That would be my guess as to how this ended up happening the way they did. Past success + legitimate needs + player feedback on Plus. I very much doubt they saw that thread and took it as green light of some sort.

But I don't work for ZOS so I can only speculate as to how this happened. I don't know what happened. I just know I had a bad feeling about that being the feedback and everything that has happened since then has only reinforced those feelings.