I am hyped about subclassing, the furnishing vault, and optional overland difficulty. The subclassing is going to make the game feel much more Elder Scrolls, I think. And I really look forward to being add things to my characters. I'm actually going to level my abandoned Necro to 50 out of anticipation of this. Subclassing is one of the things that I think is going to keep me in this game despite my unhappiness about the price increase.

I'm excited and feeling positive about it which is not at all my usual stance on this game, haha. But I do kind of wonder if this will be a way for them to excuse no longer releasing classes. Not that I'd be mad about that since I've never really had interest in the new ones and think ESO class design is wack.... BUT, I'd hope if I am right right then they'd finally open their minds to creating new weapon lines and stop using motifs as an excuse not to instead.

While I like the idea overall, I fully expect *the* signature, class-defining skills that we know and love (at least those that still remain) to be nerfed into mundane nothingness.

I just don't think this will be worth the obvious balance problems and the inevitable chainsaw-over-scalpel- solutions to them.

Fantastic new breath into the environment.

Worried about balance. Really worried.

Sure, it'd be fun for overland and RP, and I'm totally gonna set up some of my alts with skills that would make sense according to their lore. But nobody cares about balance in overland or in a normal.

But vet content? PvP? When competition is involved, then balance needs to as well. And ESO has not historically been great on that front...

Seriously, there are already so many "people aren't letting me bring my heavy attack build into trials!" threads. We really expect that this is going to make people admit more? "Play as you want" is a great thought... so long at the other 11 people in the group also think that. But if the group wants to be meta, then they're gonna be really exclusionary if you're not.

It was the same with hybridization - the idea (good) was that you could slot any skills without having to worry that some were not powerful because it was mag instead of stam. What happened? Every Class then got the "objectively better option" and the "I'm nerfing myself" option - so why would you take the worse one unless you were nerfing yourself? RP? Sure, try to explain to a group lead that you can't pull your weight in the group because it doesn't fit with your RP.
Now think of that, but homogenizing all the classes.

That will also make PvE less diverse as well. A lot of current groups like to bring a Templar because of their excellent execute power. Now if everyone can do that, why do we need a primary Templar when that slot could be another Arcanist with banner and Class Mastery? Why have healers if all the DPS can just run Matriarchs? Why have two tanks if one can just be in Magma 100% of the time and just not take damage ever? And then, all those support slots you don't need anymore can go to more DPS!

Also PvP - you thought the Polar Wind spamming Wardens was bad, now wait for them to also be able to cast Magma on cooldown to restore their resources as well. Or just wait for the gankblade bombers who can use Mages Wrath to get a second explosion out of Rush of Agony and then streak away unscathed. I guess it's a good thing people want a meta shift, because it's coming.

Finally, the thing that disappoints me most is that I really really want a new Class. I've been dreaming of a Dwemer Artificer for ages now, but this system makes it look like we'll never get a new Class again. After all, now instead of being balanced against 7 other Classes, it'd be three lines balanced against each other and 21 other lines individually.

Arcanist's release was some of the most fun I've had with this game. I love the new character setup process and getting to play with new skills and how they interact. Now, my options are to... make another version of a character I already have, until I finish the levelling to get them enough skill points to... make them into a hybrid of other characters because nobody has their own identity anymore. That's super depressing actually.

Imagine - we're at a state where literally the only Class identity we have anymore is the fashion of the Class set. "Sure you can use all the other skills from another class, but don't you dare wear a facemask! That's for OG NBs only!"

This is what I've always wanted from the build system.

Let’s think about what this system might turn into down the line. It’s unlikely people will complain about getting hit by Blastbones, Scorch, and Incap all at once from stealth — because they’ll be the ones casting it. But most likely, all strong delayed and execute-type attacks will end up nerfed.

And what about PvE? What’s the actual benefit of stacking passives from different class damage lines?

A big nerf is coming, and subclasses will become necessary. Jesus. Of course they’ll be necessary!

[X] I'm just not interested in it.

Credible_Joe wrote: »

DISMANTLE THE STATUS QUO

ALL CLASS SKILL LINES FOR ALL CHARACTERS

CLASS WARFARE

NO MORE CLASS

This is what I always say regarding classes in Elder Scrolls. I believe classes are diametrically opposed to this setting, as every game diminished the importance of which class you picked at the start in lieu of what skills and attributes you actually use and invest in as you play. All the way up to Skyrim, which eliminated classes entirely.

Displacing two of our class skill lines and substituting in whichever ones we want from other classes is as close as they could get to the above sentiment without dissolving the class system entirely. I believe it's a fine solution for the directive of allowing players as much freedom as possible in defining our own characters without arbitrary restraints, like the boundaries between class archetypes.

As for META and the death of build variety, this is only a potential problem for power gamers. People will always play what they find fun, and relatively few people find chasing the META as fun as building a character, or otherwise casually theory crafting. As many people resist the META as pursue it, and as many people again pay it no mind at all.

Credible_Joe wrote: »

Credible_Joe wrote: »

DISMANTLE THE STATUS QUO

ALL CLASS SKILL LINES FOR ALL CHARACTERS

CLASS WARFARE

NO MORE CLASS

This is what I always say regarding classes in Elder Scrolls. I believe classes are diametrically opposed to this setting, as every game diminished the importance of which class you picked at the start in lieu of what skills and attributes you actually use and invest in as you play. All the way up to Skyrim, which eliminated classes entirely.

Displacing two of our class skill lines and substituting in whichever ones we want from other classes is as close as they could get to the above sentiment without dissolving the class system entirely. I believe it's a fine solution for the directive of allowing players as much freedom as possible in defining our own characters without arbitrary restraints, like the boundaries between class archetypes.

As for META and the death of build variety, this is only a potential problem for power gamers. People will always play what they find fun, and relatively few people find chasing the META as fun as building a character, or otherwise casually theory crafting. As many people resist the META as pursue it, and as many people again pay it no mind at all.

When I think of a classless system in The Elder Scrolls, I definitely don’t imagine combining Hermaeus Mora’s tentacles with Aedric beams while summoning scamps. That’s already so flashy, loud, and over-the-top that it feels worlds away from the classic vision of a character’s combat abilities in The Elder Scrolls.

Honestly, sometimes it feels like the Vestige is more of a Marvel superhero than the hero of a fantasy saga. Thematic classes already exist — there’s no getting around that. But mixing them? That’s madness. And tasteless.

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Credible_Joe wrote: »

Credible_Joe wrote: »

DISMANTLE THE STATUS QUO

ALL CLASS SKILL LINES FOR ALL CHARACTERS

CLASS WARFARE

NO MORE CLASS

This is what I always say regarding classes in Elder Scrolls. I believe classes are diametrically opposed to this setting, as every game diminished the importance of which class you picked at the start in lieu of what skills and attributes you actually use and invest in as you play. All the way up to Skyrim, which eliminated classes entirely.

Displacing two of our class skill lines and substituting in whichever ones we want from other classes is as close as they could get to the above sentiment without dissolving the class system entirely. I believe it's a fine solution for the directive of allowing players as much freedom as possible in defining our own characters without arbitrary restraints, like the boundaries between class archetypes.

As for META and the death of build variety, this is only a potential problem for power gamers. People will always play what they find fun, and relatively few people find chasing the META as fun as building a character, or otherwise casually theory crafting. As many people resist the META as pursue it, and as many people again pay it no mind at all.

When I think of a classless system in The Elder Scrolls, I definitely don’t imagine combining Hermaeus Mora’s tentacles with Aedric beams while summoning scamps. That’s already so flashy, loud, and over-the-top that it feels worlds away from the classic vision of a character’s combat abilities in The Elder Scrolls.

Honestly, sometimes it feels like the Vestige is more of a Marvel superhero than the hero of a fantasy saga. Thematic classes already exist — there’s no getting around that. But mixing them? That’s madness. And tasteless.

You've listed one example of the most dissonant combination you can think of. But the range of possibilities gives the freedom to make anything we'd like. A Warden can become an Elementalist by swapping out their pet and plant lines with Storm Calling and Ardent Flame or Draconic Power. A Sorcerer can dabble in necromancy by swapping just storm calling with Grave Lord.

You can make a Kynareth healer by swapping Templar lines with plants and pets from Warden.

The number of thematic possibilities we have access to now just went up by like, two orders of magnitude. Shaking up the META that much is crazy, sure. Maybe even madness. But calling that tasteless is fully out of line.

Credible_Joe wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Credible_Joe wrote: »

Credible_Joe wrote: »

DISMANTLE THE STATUS QUO

ALL CLASS SKILL LINES FOR ALL CHARACTERS

CLASS WARFARE

NO MORE CLASS

This is what I always say regarding classes in Elder Scrolls. I believe classes are diametrically opposed to this setting, as every game diminished the importance of which class you picked at the start in lieu of what skills and attributes you actually use and invest in as you play. All the way up to Skyrim, which eliminated classes entirely.

Displacing two of our class skill lines and substituting in whichever ones we want from other classes is as close as they could get to the above sentiment without dissolving the class system entirely. I believe it's a fine solution for the directive of allowing players as much freedom as possible in defining our own characters without arbitrary restraints, like the boundaries between class archetypes.

As for META and the death of build variety, this is only a potential problem for power gamers. People will always play what they find fun, and relatively few people find chasing the META as fun as building a character, or otherwise casually theory crafting. As many people resist the META as pursue it, and as many people again pay it no mind at all.

When I think of a classless system in The Elder Scrolls, I definitely don’t imagine combining Hermaeus Mora’s tentacles with Aedric beams while summoning scamps. That’s already so flashy, loud, and over-the-top that it feels worlds away from the classic vision of a character’s combat abilities in The Elder Scrolls.

Honestly, sometimes it feels like the Vestige is more of a Marvel superhero than the hero of a fantasy saga. Thematic classes already exist — there’s no getting around that. But mixing them? That’s madness. And tasteless.

You've listed one example of the most dissonant combination you can think of. But the range of possibilities gives the freedom to make anything we'd like. A Warden can become an Elementalist by swapping out their pet and plant lines with Storm Calling and Ardent Flame or Draconic Power. A Sorcerer can dabble in necromancy by swapping just storm calling with Grave Lord.

You can make a Kynareth healer by swapping Templar lines with plants and pets from Warden.

The number of thematic possibilities we have access to now just went up by like, two orders of magnitude. Shaking up the META that much is crazy, sure. Maybe even madness. But calling that tasteless is fully out of line.

All these wonderful features apply only to RP.

<streamer> will soon present the mandatory setup for each role, your chance to be able to participate in the new meta with your favorite character just tripled.

For everyone who makes their own build decisions, subclassing opens a lot of posibilities, especially when an integral part of your class doesn't really click with you, or one of your trees gets nerfed to oblivion.

Cautiously optimistic 

It's going to be an adjustment for sure, and I can see it really shaking things up in PVP and meta groups. But, for the average player, I don’t see it being a big deal.

Kinda excited about it personally. With the Nintendo Switch 2 coming out and having not gotten the first one, I have a nice backlog of games to play, so I’m sure my time in ESO will start becoming more limited personally. But with the new possibilities and builds, I may end up playing a little more ESO in the future than I originally thought.

Oh my GOD, I cannot imagine being a new player and stepping into ESO after this is started. With all the possibles and build options, including scribing. The thousands and thousands of combinations that will be possible.

I really hope they plan on how to teach this to the new players that are drawn to the game as time goes on. They are focused on returning players and teaching them. Just imagine coming in fresh with no experience or knowledge of the game. 

They have not been the best in the past teaching new players, in my opinion. I hope they have a plan for this and not leave it to the new player to go out searching outside the game for information and help. Elder Scroll games generally depend on the community to teach new players, which is not always the best, as now with the internet there are so many places to look, and the information is sometimes biased, wrong or outdated.

Stay safe

I’m completely torn.

My biggest worries are class identity and balance.

What if a certain combination proves to be so effective that they end up nerfing both of the classes? Like potentially the pairing of Templar and Arcanist.

Because knowing ZOS’s pattern, they’ll just nerf the Templar and Arcanist to where their combo isn’t as broken. Which could lead to playing solely just the Templar or Arcanist not as effective as it used to be.

That said though, the roleplaying aspect is limitless. This may be why ZOS added skill colors few months back. Just imagine, pairing the blue fires of DK with the Necro to create a seamless identity of the “death knight.”

Or the red skill colors of Necro with Nightblade to create a death assassin.