BOTS and gameplay

Sylv3r · May 2014

Hello TESO team
I play on both server and mostly on EU Server since beta.
Like many i have get a 180 days subscription and imperial édition.
Today i was exploring another dongeon named Sanguine’s Demesne in Shadowfen zone. I have count 19 bots in this dungeon. 19 bots !!! I can say that it was unplayable to get fun there.
Easy mob (group of 4) were KOS by the bots and the rest witch were sitting alive were groups of 6 mobs hard to be taken soloing there.
All days i report bots .. all days i see the sames bots name alive and cheating.
So my question is simple : is TESO taking SERIOUSLY about them or as they pay an account they can do what they want and kill our fun KOSing all places ?

I come from Everquest first of it and after 14 years playing it, i wanted to change my experience with friends on TESO. But thèses bots are killing all the fun i am getting in this game.

And i am not alone to think it.

Economy is looking stupid as some people have like 500 rares to sell and nobody think that there is something not normal. Where theses rares come from ?

Its simple to make a script to scan banks or players and see that there is something that is getting wrong ....

TESO team said they are taking this problem seriously but i dont see any serious option taken apart a GM poping sometimes like Sir Kill-a-bot ...
When this problem will be resolved ?
I dont want to left TESO now but i need a serious answer about it.
Thanks for reply.

bobsrevenge · May 2014

I am new to the game but all games have a few *** ups with any cheats or bots you should report them , the game will deal with them if someone commits are crime you what go on a forum and complain, no you report to the police nothing a player can do but report , you come from eq then you would know this .
as for the Economy you can buy and sell to guilds and players game provides most of this so Economy in that respect is fine .

Sylv3r · May 2014

Agree Bobs but when you have the power in dev like TESO team have, they can do the necessary to avoid most of the problem we can see.
I know that theses f... will find new way .. but having a GM online everyday during the three first month of the launch will have avoid many of theses.
It has a cost yes ... but reward too as people will think they are held and a survey is done.

aufischb16_ESO · May 2014

bobsrevenge wrote: »

I am new to the game but all games have a few *** ups with any cheats or bots you should report them , the game will deal with them if someone commits are crime you what go on a forum and complain, no you report to the police nothing a player can do but report , you come from eq then you would know this .
as for the Economy you can buy and sell to guilds and players game provides most of this so Economy in that respect is fine .

He did report them, he is just frustrated that It doesn't seem to change anything even though it is a rather time-consuming thing to do. We do pay to play the game, not pay to "watch bots snatching up all the mobs gear and getting the XP for it followed by spending 10 minutes to report these bots", especially if there is no visible improvement.

And an economy that due to loot-nerfing (because of the bots!) made rare items even rarer so that things like motivs sell for over 100'000 a piece is not fine anymore. (Altough I honestly don't know why anyone would fork out 150k for a motiv. I mean what does it do? It only changes look of the self made armour after all, nothing else.

)

AlexDougherty · May 2014

Instead of destroying the bots, they should send them to a plane with unlimited empty nodes. This should keep them running around in circles gaining nothing, using up computer power and electricity.

To leave this plane they have to go to a shrine, and enter the text written on the shrine (should fool a bot since it's just imagery not text).

bobsrevenge · May 2014

well aufischb16_ESO yes he did report them but he should know being from eq these things take time ,and the economy is fine if players pay stupid amounts to buy items then its their mistake , you all want every thing now and that's where this economy state of the mind set ,

Sylv3r · May 2014

@bobsrevenge‌
You know what is player economy ? Its economy done by players and anly players. Not bots.
A rare item is ... rare ... so players who have chance to get one have the hability to sell it at a good price.
But if theses items are most impossible to get because camps are heavily taken by bots what do you think it will remain ?

When we see rares sell about 100K/150K in zone its the consequence of theses problems.
When you come to do a quest and its so easily done cause BOTS are killing all the places and you have just to run to the boss and hit it one time .. do you think you have done this quest ???
Thats killing TESO for sure ...
And something need to be done.

I try to do myself taking a LOT of time reporting bots but nothing is done really as i see them with same name every day i pass through the same place .. sometimes they run a bit further ... its all.

I know that TESO need time, but sending a GM online everydays can be an immediate way to resolve many of the bots problems we got ingame and send a message to Customer that something is done and in way.

Mistamichal · May 2014

There is a group of bots on Bleakrock that I have reported 6 days in a row and they are still there, doing a circuit - The exact same bots! Think about how many resources 6 bots could gather in 6 days, going 24 hours a day - an absolute bucket load! Multiply that by the thousands (if not, tens of thousands) of bots and the effect on the economy will very soon be ruined beyond the point of no return. I agree with other posts on the forum that ZOS NEED to have a fulltime GM or GMs for the first 3 months of the game who's soul purpose is to kill bots, while the developers work on a way to end the problem (or minimise it as best as possible).

KerinKor · May 2014

I agree, I saw Bleakrock over the weekend and the bots outnumbered players by at least 5:1.

bobsrevenge · May 2014

no player can do anything but report that's it yes it will take time to resolve , and when you see these items for large amounts of cash , I would like to see evidence on these items being sold at the prices you state, I mean I can sell some thing rare for 1 million but will it sell .
I am new to the game but its the same in all games show evidence of this , no one even eso has to abide by these rules call it company policy but I think these prices are hear say , maybe a few might have paid for some of them they are the wallet warriors, but in general I think in general not

netsike · May 2014

Does Zenimax ban accounts or just characters? What about IP ban?

Dita · May 2014

netsike wrote: »

Does Zenimax ban accounts or just characters? What about IP ban?

What about proxy servers for an IP ban ?

Savinder · May 2014

It can get really frustrating when you see a constant stream of bots doing quests and killing mobs.
And the "free" month of subscription is over, which makes it even more aggravating when you keep seeing stuff like this:

And those were only two of about a dozen still active as of a few minutes ago.

KerinKor · May 2014

Dita wrote: »

netsike wrote: »

Does Zenimax ban accounts or just characters? What about IP ban?

What about proxy servers for an IP ban ?

ZOS haven't said, indeed they refused to answer if they ban the scum gold buyers who are the root cause of the problem, but one has to assume they ban the account.

Dita · May 2014

KerinKor wrote: »

ZOS haven't said, indeed they refused to answer if they ban the scum gold buyers who are the root cause of the problem, but one has to assume they ban the account.

They refusing to answer quite a few questions imho.

Catflinger · May 2014

I'm an MMO vet myself, and I have to say that the bots are the worst I've ever seen, even at this early point in the game's life. They are unbelievably brazen.

Last night on the US megaserver, I was helping my husband complete a few quests in eastern Deshaan. He was working on the Silent Mire chain, and there was this huge gang of sorcerer bots, all with clannfears, just racing around and around in a big loop in their worthless soul shriven rags, slaughtering everything. There were at least ten of them clumped up together. No, that didn't stick out like a sore thumb or anything (sarcasm). Made it difficult to get anything done, frankly; we were there twice as long as we should have been, waiting for stuff to respawn and looking for the quest objectives in all the chaos.

This is making me very sad. I in no way expect a bot-free game because that is impossible. But stuff like this? Come on.

Sylv3r · May 2014

@Catflinger
Yeah Cat thas the MAJOR problem. It affect our gameplay.
And if it affect our gameplay it affect the trust in a new game we have.
Its sooo sad because TESO is the MMO i wanted since years.
Its an old rules MMO like most vets like us have known in the past, old rules with new technologies that can make TESO in the top of the MMO experience ever played.
But this bot problem is stealing our fun and began to be make a lot of people angry and very sad.
TESO team need to make a very high answer about two things in my opinion

- Golsellers and bot teams
- Customers who buy to goldseller

Its doable to make scripts that can track transactions, timers in dungeons, group farming in areas and send dev on it to look at it then use IP Ban/account ban and destroy all wallets characters who bought to theses guys.

I know that will not resolve all the problems but sending messages online that there is a GM there will make the problem different.

SOE had a very good idea in old days : they created a new profession for hardcore players who wanted to help them resolving bug and track goldsellers .. there was GM applications (questionary and tell ingame) for players who get the GM tag with some restrictions. They could help people on bugs and look around the world and see what is going on.
Theses GM have done a LOT of work for SOE. They take this role very seriously.

Its an idea that dont cost a lot but is very helpfull to win the war against this army of bots.

Just my two coppers

bobsrevenge · May 2014

every company will treat bot and gold seller as a serious problem to their business , to think bots and gold sellers ban gone its not that easy and ip bans
is according to eu a minefield , eso have said in general terms what they are doing but cannot show their full hand .
I think they did ban many and these some are new ones , first eso have to find how they do these exploits this can take time a lot quicker if you report them so carry on reporting them,
its also like the player selling rare items for 100k I think most would not pay this so if you are forced to pay these prices {not} , so eso are doing their best this issue will take time

KerinKor · May 2014

Dita wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

ZOS haven't said, indeed they refused to answer if they ban the scum gold buyers who are the root cause of the problem, but one has to assume they ban the account.

They refusing to answer quite a few questions imho.

Indeed, and saying YES to "do you ban buyers" clearly has no PR 'issues' so there would be no penalty for them doing so .. I and others have asked them point blank and they wouldn't answer: in this case silence only has one interpretation in my book.

steveb16_ESO46 · May 2014

Banning bots is not a legal minefield anywhere. No botting company is going to go to court and if they did they wouldn't win. Blizzard won an injunction against a company.

IMHO what is needed is a series of class action cases against all the major companies in all relevant jurisdictions. A few successful cases would hopefully lead to judges granting temporary injunctions while cases go through the courts.

And maybe trade a few disputed Japanese islands for China closing the industry down wholesale.

KerinKor · May 2014

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

Blizzard won an injunction against a company.

Actually you need to read and understand that judgement very carefully to see it's a very rare situation and Blizzard didn't win on the argument writing game hacks is 'illegal' in any sense.

IIRC Blizzard won on IP/copyright grounds against a company with a US base that meant they fell within US civil jurisdiction .. there's a reason RMT is largely based in China and many bot writers are in Russia and other East European countries.

While you may want to believe it, US Civil law doesn't apply to the whole world.

zeuseason · May 2014

Altho I have seen less bots running around, they are *still* there ruining everyone's game experiences. This absolutely has to be dealt with asap!

Dita · May 2014

zeuseason wrote: »

Altho I have seen less bots running around, they are *still* there ruining everyone's game experiences. This absolutely has to be dealt with asap!

They (bots) just gone underground now, didn't you know - they warmbots now ! Yay!

MissKiwiana · May 2014

have you seen the speed some these bots move? OMFG!! I thought I was seeing things ... road runner speed.

I saw a GM put a system message over about /msg them if you come across any bots and I'm like "yeah,really?" just go over to Bleakrock or pop into any dungeon ANY dungeon and you'll see em' in their masses.

I just finished questing in Bleakrock with a new toon and was unable to mine anything other then a few runes as it was super bot nation - same bots I have seen before on other toons of mine and reported a good month ago.

This is BS!!

How long have players be crying out for something to be done,? and it is just getting worse day by day.

Dita · May 2014

MissKiwiana wrote: »

have you seen the speed some these bots move? OMFG!! I thought I was seeing things ... road runner speed.

I saw a GM put a system message over about /msg them if you come across any bots ...(

And then GM was run over by a bot, like a Wile E Coyote . . . Beeb-Beep !

aowy55b16_ESO · May 2014

Just stood and watched an endless stream of level 2 bots come out of the Windhelm portal in Eastmarch on the EU megaserver, run to the first quest giver, hand in the quest and ding, and then run off.. some of them at roadrunner speed

Must have been several hundred of them just while I was watching.

I reported one, but it's just not possible to report every one when there are so many as it takes so long.

There really needs to be a faster way of reporting them, or GM's in game killing & banning them 24 hours a day.

steveb16_ESO46 · May 2014

KerinKor wrote: »

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

Blizzard won an injunction against a company.

Actually you need to read and understand that judgement very carefully to see it's a very rare situation and Blizzard didn't win on the argument writing game hacks is 'illegal' in any sense.

IIRC Blizzard won on IP/copyright grounds against a company with a US base that meant they fell within US civil jurisdiction .. there's a reason RMT is largely based in China and many bot writers are in Russia and other East European countries.

While you may want to believe it, US Civil law doesn't apply to the whole world.

Hence my desire to give away islands and the mention of relevant jurisdictions. I expect China has a judicial system and I expect there are international agreements that can be enforced at state level.

Blackwolfe5 · May 2014

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Instead of destroying the bots, they should send them to a plane with unlimited empty nodes. This should keep them running around in circles gaining nothing, using up computer power and electricity.

To leave this plane they have to go to a shrine, and enter the text written on the shrine (should fool a bot since it's just imagery not text).

I suspect someone checks on the bots every once in a while, what's to keep them from just deleting the char and making another? As a matter of fact, that could probably be done automatically at the push of a button. With the jutenode bots, if someone blocks them they automatically log off after a while.

ttwinklerub17_ESO · May 2014

there is an automated script that creates the bot runs the small quest and then deposits the dough in bank and then deletes char and creates a new one
imagine 8 of them in an account doing that all day - with speedhacks

the scripters are winning

ZOS has to start with the client and protection mechs
then deal with trading - take away their way to make real money

KerinKor · May 2014

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

Blizzard won an injunction against a company.

Actually you need to read and understand that judgement very carefully to see it's a very rare situation and Blizzard didn't win on the argument writing game hacks is 'illegal' in any sense.

IIRC Blizzard won on IP/copyright grounds against a company with a US base that meant they fell within US civil jurisdiction .. there's a reason RMT is largely based in China and many bot writers are in Russia and other East European countries.

While you may want to believe it, US Civil law doesn't apply to the whole world.

Hence my desire to give away islands and the mention of relevant jurisdictions. I expect China has a judicial system and I expect there are international agreements that can be enforced at state level.

China has shown zero regard for 'western' IP/copyright interests up to now and I hardly think video games where there is no demonstrable 'damage' to the IP owner is the place they'll start.

Some companies once considered action against one of the world's biggest RMT companies, IGE, but gave up since IGE are (were?) based in Honk Kong.

In order to win a civil claim in any jurisdiction I know of Zenimax have to demonstrate DAMAGE, after all cash rewards are called 'damages' and it's a legally moot point whether bots per se damage a company that doesn't sell gold so doesn't 'lose' sales due to RMT.

In the case of RMT, F2P games have a far better 'damage' claim that games like ESO yet none has ever even tried, they know they'll not likely win.

I say again, writing bots is NOT 'illegal' in any criminal sense here, it's a civil matter and that's where the games companies have very little ground on which to fight legally.

Dita · May 2014

NVM.