What is interesting is repeatedly defeating players in 1v1 matches who, in other campaigns, dominate me.
So in other campaigns, they dominate me with better theorycrafting & better proc/cp builds, but in Vengeance, I dominate them with better class mastery and pure gameplay

no offense, but guys, it's so satisfying to see this now
THX ZOS.

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Kikazaru wrote: »

No complexity whatsoever. No outplaying your opponents.

What are you talking about? The mode is the very essence of NEEDING to outplay your opponents. There is no gear discrepancy, no procs to rely on. Its literally the most balanced it can get.

Not true. There is no skill gap with vengeance mode. It's just a numbers game. The group/zerg with more players will always win. There is no ability for a single player to make any notable difference in any fight with vengeance mode. Those who don't PvP regularly don't know the details of how or why this is the case, but it is.

Xarc wrote: »

What is interesting is repeatedly defeating players in 1v1 matches who, in other campaigns, dominate me.
So in other campaigns, they dominate me with better theorycrafting & better proc/cp builds, but in Vengeance, I dominate them with better class mastery and pure gameplay

no offense, but guys, it's so satisfying to see this now
THX ZOS.

I understand WHY you feel that way and am glad you're enjoying it, but I'm gonna disagree a little.

First, there's significant Class imbalance in Vengeance. The super stripped-down Class Skill-only kits weren't balanced in the slightest, as ZOS has stated numerous times. So, there's that, but it's really not the point I'd emphasize.

What I'd say is more to the point is that in Vengeance, even a 1v1 is so limited in dynamics that it's hard to really call it outplaying. It's like racing two single speed go-carts in a straight line, with no gear shifting and no real talent involved, simply pressing down the gas the whole time. One player might win, but there's a serious limit to how much skill was truly displayed.

I've won most my 1v1s simply by rolling a lot. It's not top tier PvP in there. There's just not enough room for actual play and counterplay with things so minimized to really say who's better.

It's just only for "server stress test" design, not for the game quality assurance.

I think having a Vengeance campaign by itself is a good idea, but I also struggle to see how such a resolution would be viable with PvP's limited population on most of the servers. On the flipside I don't see how people who like the current live version of PvP more would just be happy to play Vengeance if Gray Host was swapped over, they'd probably just quit.

I'm PS/NA main but I play PvP on PS/EU sometimes with friends overseas, Gray Host is the only campaign that's ever full or being even remotely close to full. I had a look at Blackreach a few days ago and even with the active pursuit it was like 1 bar Yellow and that was it.

I fear that making it a separate campaign it would also just be dead like U50 or NoCP is.

It is a good start but needs a lot of work.

I dread the return to “normal” Zerodil with unkillable ball groups and RoA everywhere. That should be completely revamped.

I noticed some ball groups were able to survive but it was pretty ez to pick them apart nad not be involuntarily sucked into their death ulti stun dumps.

The ball groups had to adjust , learn to use their skills, adapt. They seemed appropriately powered to me.

Also skill still plated a big role, eg knowing how to use combos and knowing how to play defensively.

I did not miss bombers, gankers, or proc sets . I did not miss max speed uncatchable and unkillable tower humpers . I did not miss unkillable 12 man running 50 laps around arrius 3rd floor.

However the Zerg’s were too strong and keep defense was overwhelmed if you were outnumbered due to lack of powerful siege and everyone with 70k hp and strong heals,

I did appreciate more large scale battles and having more than 1-2 bars online.

The power of the zergs tended to ignoring defense and each faction mass zeroing PvD which was really boring.
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