Vengeance campaign - Yay or Nay?

redlink1979

There's been a lot of ink about this past week on Cyrodiil: Vengeance. A lot of pros and cons have been spoken about.
So ppl, do you think ZOS should just add a campaign mode like Vengeance to the current PvP scene? Or should Cyrodiil change forever? Or should PvP in large scale stay as it is?

Tinkerhorn

Just add a Vengeance campaign but keep the other campaigns (CP, no CP, under 50)

My main view is Vengeance is only functional as a test to gain data about performance, however given the popularity of it I suppose changing the U50 campaign or having a completely seperate campaign for a Vengeance gamemode might welcome a new popluation to play PvP.
That said I think Vengeance is too shallow and too boring as well as very dependent on having popluation parity that ultimately it would wither away and die.
A lot of people that have very little understanding of current PvP or are able to pinpoint some sore points about current PvP believe that Vengeance is the fix but the truth is it's throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
If vengeance is made a campaign the other point of contention then becomes where does workload get allocated by ZOS? At which point it's very feasible to argue the coexistence of Vengeance is a detriment to the game.

Of course also to acknowledge that Vengeance was set up as a test and ZOS have reiterated it is only a test it's probably for the best it remains just as a test.
The argument for a seperate campaign of Vengeance is it's an introductory form of PvP (Though the biggest issue people face entering PvP is having a lack of understanding particularly about builds and their strats) or that Vengeance attracts a different crowd that otherwise would never play PvP.

Askys94

Yay - change the PvP on Cyrodiil forever

Burn the old Cyro >:D Rebuild it with the base of Vengence.

Id say Vengence is a good start, needs some tweaking and fleshing out, but it sure is better then the current direction PVP is heading.

LouisaB75

Just add a Vengeance campaign but keep the other campaigns (CP, no CP, under 50)

I would say add it, but if it is not possible for server end reasons then maybe replace the no CP area with this one. I don't think replacing the under 50 area, as I have seen suggested by a lot of people this week, would be good as it will lock out everyone who reaches level 50 and is enjoying this campaign.

I do think it needs some tweaks though.

Definitely more skill options, the alliance war options at the very least.

Quests, emperor, hammer, stuff that needs to be there for achievements etc activated.

Traders active and no unlimited sieges etc.

Being able to interact with things there. I still haven't found that recipe and I would hate to come across it spawned in a zone where I can't pick it up.

I am sure there are other tweaks that could be made as well, but these are just the ones that spring to mind first.

But leave the regular PvP areas as they are so those who want to play in those can still do so. They may also find that more people will come over to those areas in time. Especially if you can grind your PvP build in an area where you are not at a huge disadvantage because you haven't yet got it. Grind it in Vengeance and then move on to the other area where you can use it.

L_Nici

Just add a Vengeance campaign but keep the other campaigns (CP, no CP, under 50)

There would be no harm to have it as alternative, to get an actual result how much people like it. Currently there is a lot of people just happy that something changed and there is some fresh air to it, many PvE players play it, because its easy to get into it, yet they have no actual PvP experience to judge it properly. I think it would be more healthy to test it while there is alternatives, if it ends up empty like no CP/no proc after a while, they know the actual feeling of players about it.

WuffyCerulei

Other (please explain with a comment)

I would like an optional campaign like Vengeance, but have it have some differences. Some more siege options, maybe tuned down weapon skills, as well as passives but also simplified. As well as being to do things like quests and whatnot in it. It’s more fun with people being forced to use skill rather than crutch on sets and, ugh, ball groups.

Juzz

Nay - keep it as it is

It’s still TES, not jolly farm, sims, overwatch et cetera.

Xzysts

Nay - keep it as it is

Here we go again, people who don’t play PvP are going to control what happens to the game mode we love and enjoy. If they gut PvP they need to do this across the board to PvE. See how much fun they really think it is…

Muizer

Other (please explain with a comment)

I think they still need to iterate on Vengeance to add morphs and weapon and guild skills lines at the very least. As long as those skills are similarly simplified, that may not add too much load to the servers. But that has to be tested next I think.

Elvenheart

Yay - change the PvP on Cyrodiil forever

Askys94 wrote: »

Burn the old Cyro >:D Rebuild it with the base of Vengence.

Id say Vengence is a good start, needs some tweaking and fleshing out, but it sure is better then the current direction PVP is heading.

This.

Xarc

Other (please explain with a comment)

ADd vengeance campaign (replace -50 & nocp)
but change some things (add other siege weapons, weapons skills, add pots like detect, some passives maybe rebuilt too, etc)

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom

Nay - keep it as it is

Not enough players for another campaign.

Xzysts

Nay - keep it as it is

Elvenheart wrote: »

Askys94 wrote: »

Burn the old Cyro >:D Rebuild it with the base of Vengence.

Id say Vengence is a good start, needs some tweaking and fleshing out, but it sure is better then the current direction PVP is heading.

This.

They should do the same to PvE. Wouldn’t you agree?

Elrond87

Other (please explain with a comment)

i like the performance, and not fussed about no sets active but i would like class skills how they were and able to use mundus stone and food, now if they can add no combat on platform in bg and add in a armoury at the top of the platform that would make bg a lot nicer

xylena_lazarow

Other (please explain with a comment)

It's a good building block but the lack of skills and siege make it get boring fast, so I'd like to see it cook a bit longer before they go releasing Vengeance to live. That said, it does make PvP a lot more accessible, so they could probably push it right now as a replacement for the dead useless nocp and u50 camps.

valenwood_vegan

Other (please explain with a comment)

Vengeance needs more work on balancing, and to see what types of build customization and features can be added back without ruining the performance gains. But even in its current state, it honestly might be a good replacement for the under-50 campaign and a way to get more new players interested in pvp, while more work is done on it over time.

EDIT: At the very least, consider bringing it back for the next midyear mayhem instead of one of the extra no-cp campaigns.

Elvenheart

Yay - change the PvP on Cyrodiil forever

Xzysts wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

Askys94 wrote: »

Burn the old Cyro >:D Rebuild it with the base of Vengence.

Id say Vengence is a good start, needs some tweaking and fleshing out, but it sure is better then the current direction PVP is heading.

This.

They should do the same to PvE. Wouldn’t you agree?

No, for reasons others have already stated in your thread about that topic.

Juzz

Nay - keep it as it is

Elvenheart wrote: »

Xzysts wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

Askys94 wrote: »

Burn the old Cyro >:D Rebuild it with the base of Vengence.

Id say Vengence is a good start, needs some tweaking and fleshing out, but it sure is better then the current direction PVP is heading.

This.

They should do the same to PvE. Wouldn’t you agree?

No, for reasons others have already stated in your thread about that topic.

If it’s a kill, than it’s a complete kill

Rohamad_Ali

Just add a Vengeance campaign but keep the other campaigns (CP, no CP, under 50)

If people would like a vengeance campaign while the others remain the same, good. No problem.

Malyore

Other (please explain with a comment)

Console player.

darvaria

Just add a Vengeance campaign but keep the other campaigns (CP, no CP, under 50)

There are enough players for 2 campaigns.

Players that don't normally pvp are really enjoying Vengeance so I would say keep it.

Vengeance replaces the need for a no cp campaign as there is no cp in Vengeance.

Return GH.

With battle leveling vengeance would also replace the need for the Under 50 (which is AlWAYS 1/1/1).

Black Reach is only played by players that want huge pop advantage so they can PVDoor the map and get emp for someone. These players should be combined with GH.

Players are really enjoying being able to kill players that don't have 12 regens and 12 vigors constantly ticking that turn around and ulti dump and bomber builds for kills. Tower humpers are easily gunned down. These OP small groups are non existent. I saw one player die that can usually tank 12-20 die to only 4 players.

I welcome a spot of PVP that is NOT controlled by ball groups and some bomber popping up on every game objective. I have ZERO lag there. Don't CHANGE ANYTHING but give GH as an option. Delete the other 3 campaigns.

If you get rid of Vengeance, I am only going to pvp for daily endeavors... a very limited amount.

Joy_Division

Other (please explain with a comment)

Vengeance has potential to be a fun alternative to Live, which has far too much powercreep in it. But people should be free to decide which PvP they want to play. So I don;t agree with eliminating the regular Live Cyrdoill.

For now Vengeance it's just that potential. There are quite a few things needed to make it sustainable. It should be a goal of ZOS to offer it as a campaign. Though it would be better if ZOS took their data and our feedback to address the very real issues before releasing it as an official offering.

Pixiepumpkin

Yay - change the PvP on Cyrodiil forever

Do you crave skill based combat?
Do you desire to increase the PVP player base?
Do you crave solid performance while PVPing in Cyro?

Then there is one answer!
VENGEANCE

whitecrow

Just add a Vengeance campaign but keep the other campaigns (CP, no CP, under 50)

Why do I have to keep resetting my skills? And why do I only have them for one weapon?

I voted to keep both, for whoever likes which.

Ingenon

Other (please explain with a comment)

I have no idea. I play on one of the console servers. Like all the players on four out of six servers, I cannot play in the Vengeance campaign.

Kikazaru

Nay - keep it as it is

I think the building blocks are there to make it an interesting game mode, but right now, the combat feels too one-dimensional and I end up getting bored after just 30 minutes. No complexity whatsoever. No outplaying your opponents. Movement speed is very slow. Just pure zerging.

I guess it's great for casuals and new comers, it's much more approachable with the lack of powerful meta builds you typically see outside the test.

Deimus

Other (please explain with a comment)

I like the idea of having it replace the sub 50 campaign as long as you can level class, weapon, and armor skill lines there.

It needs a some tweaks like increased mount speed, but as a starting point it's consistently more enjoyable than live. I rarely go to Cyro and when I do it's mainly picking fights at resources or outposts since every keep fight quickly devolves into ball griefing.

If they want to build it up to be a campaign without the insane design of infinite heal/shield stacking where fights are fights it will draw a crowd. The players that stay in GH will be the small scale groups that stay away from keeps due to ball griefing and ball groups who can finally fight each other as every other player will drop Cyrodiil like a bad habit or move to Vengeance to get away from that exploitative gameplay.

spartaxoxo

Other (please explain with a comment)

I believe this was something they mentioned wasn't polished enough for prime time.

I think once they get it there, they should have it replace no-cp/below 50 PvP. But then leave the regular Gray Host for people who enjoy that.

The_Meathead

Just add a Vengeance campaign but keep the other campaigns (CP, no CP, under 50)

Replace Under 50 or No Proc with Vengeance if you just really, really wanna. It makes for such a simplified bumper-rails PvP intro, I could see it serving that purpose perhaps.

Do NOT make it the norm for all of Cyrodiil, or PvP there will eventually die off entirely. It's a fun-ish novelty for a week and the bonus AP has been nice, but it lacks depth or room to shine let alone a path for progression as players learn and understand more about PvP and gearing.

"I always hated PvP but Vengeance is fun!" is not a badge of honor, it's a condemnation. People saying this will either get bored as the new wears off and stop showing up, or they'll play for a while and actually get invested in PvP and then realize how much better it would be with more customization, depth, and ability to personalize their playstyle and go looking for it.

I detest what Ball Groups do to Cyrodiil as much or more than anyone and desperately hope we see Heal/Shield stacking greatly reduced as a part of this experience with improved performance and testing, but sacrificing *all* customization and substance for total simplicity is NOT the way forward. Make changes with a scalpel, not dynamite.

Nord_Raseri

No idea. No test on console.

Pixiepumpkin

Yay - change the PvP on Cyrodiil forever

Kikazaru wrote: »

No complexity whatsoever. No outplaying your opponents.

What are you talking about? The mode is the very essence of NEEDING to outplay your opponents. There is no gear discrepancy, no procs to rely on. Its literally the most balanced it can get.