Invisible
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Oblivion_Protocol✭✭✭✭MK-01, if NB is so "good", then why do you play paladin 99% of the time?))
Personal choice? Some people like certain classes more than others. Also, it’s Templar, not Paladin. This is ESO, not D&D.
As for the argument, there’s a reason for the wild variance in opinion. The change to Cloak means that it takes skill and timing to use the ability. You can’t just spam it and stay invisible semi-permanently through an entire fight anymore.
Before the Cloak change, 99% of the complaints about NB were related to how it was unfair that they could just be invisible for virtually no cost. And they were right. Turning invisible instantly at the press of a single button with no cooldown is a massive advantage that no other class gets. It literally ends fights, so it makes sense for the effort to reward ratio be about even.
You want to disappear and run around cosplaying a Predator? Fine. But you’ve got to pay dearly for it unless you’ve got great positioning and combat knowledge.
As far as I’m concerned, Cloak is fine the way it is.2 -
DarkWitcher2511Soul Shrivenreally how long can you cut the nb because of the whining of nerds who enter the pvp zone with 20k xp?
Well, if you don't like the nb, remove it as a class from the game. We will play only dk and sorcs. I've already played 1600 hours in pvp on nb, and constantly cut it during this time. I'm sick of it. Why fit everyone into a template and deprive diversity? Invisibility is really useless. Defensive buffs good at nb no, damage mediocre) Maximum depressing) Went to his sorc in the imperial city, for an hour of play I did not even try to gank anyone. But I as ganked nubov playing on nb so and ganking, but really strong players on nb has become to kill the maximum difficult as in gank build and in pvp build. I believe that if you want to remove gank from the game should or remove nb from the game because it is sharpened for ganking perfectly. Or should give the nb alternative skills that he could fight with other classes on an equal footing!!!!
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NArt✭✭Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »
Personal choice? Some people like certain classes more than others. Also, it’s Templar, not Paladin. This is ESO, not D&D.
As for the argument, there’s a reason for the wild variance in opinion. The change to Cloak means that it takes skill and timing to use the ability. You can’t just spam it and stay invisible semi-permanently through an entire fight anymore.
Before the Cloak change, 99% of the complaints about NB were related to how it was unfair that they could just be invisible for virtually no cost. And they were right. Turning invisible instantly at the press of a single button with no cooldown is a massive advantage that no other class gets. It literally ends fights, so it makes sense for the effort to reward ratio be about even.
You want to disappear and run around cosplaying a Predator? Fine. But you’ve got to pay dearly for it unless you’ve got great positioning and combat knowledge.
As far as I’m concerned, Cloak is fine the way it is.
I am Russian-speaking. Templar and Paladin are the same thing. And the translation is similar.
It is immediately obvious that you have never played NB. Invisibility is not an imbalance that can be "spammed". I have already written 100 times, there are potions, poisons, special skills that destroy invisibility. All area damage ignores invisibility and deals damage.
You pressed invisibility, spent 4000 mana, and bugs fly to you, which completely deal damage and take you out of invisibility. And you also spent 4000 mana (if you take into account the old skill for 3 seconds). You are punished more than.
Invisibility has NEVER been imbalanced. There are also potions that give invisibility for 15 seconds, vampirism, and just "sneaking around". Invisibility can be "smeared" in one form or another on any class, while retaining all the advantages of the class itself. And that's not counting the bunch of abilities that ignored invisibility, dot damage, sorcerer's balls, etc.
When we talk about "balance" we need to take into account that for having invisibility NB was penalized in all other areas. No area damage (good), no normal control, no damage that goes through block and somersault. NB already paid dearly for invisibility. and now it's been taken away.
The topic was created with the goal of a complete revision of NB. If you and other complete noobs think that it's imba (which is absolutely not the case), then I simply suggest removing it from the game and giving NB other skills on the level of other classes0 -
NArt✭✭Let me explain why all the videos shown in this thread are not arguments.
You show video fragments of how NB players +- who know how to play fight against weaklings and noobs, and those who play very badly. And you claim that NB is strong because he killed 10 players (and they are weak). This is exactly the logic
Okay, here is an example of a video with your logic
https://youtube.com/watch?v=m2NBC7bhBV8
I will translate the phrases into English:
"this is the best build"
"this build is hidden by Zoses"
"one of the variants of the grand build"
etc.
You can create a thread with this video and the message "magpies are the strongest!! They don't even need items, they can play without sets!! They are so strong that they need to be nerfed!!!"
In fact, sorcerers are indeed the strongest. But here he played against weak opponents. That's why the result is 14/0.
You throw out approximately the same examples as an argument.
Do you understand what I mean?
Here is an example of a video where a pro pvp player fights other pro pvp players. In the video, 70% of the opponents are top players of the server who live in duels, BG, imperial city. and he wins 3 out of 3 fights of each. If you showed such a video where a pro NB kills other pro pvp players (not by chance, but because NB is stronger) then this would be a real argument.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wPYfO22eRQI&list=PL2UPFBsgEP616Tv9hHyi2qBYj9_fZouBiEdited by NArt on March 26, 2025 11:19PM0 -
Oblivion_Protocol✭✭✭✭It is immediately obvious that you have never played NB.
Hell of an assumption you made. Also wrong. I spent two years as an NB main, and still regularly play the class.Invisibility is not an imbalance that can be "spammed". I have already written 100 times, there are potions, poisons, special skills that destroy invisibility. All area damage ignores invisibility and deals damage.
You pressed invisibility, spent 4000 mana, and bugs fly to you, which completely deal damage and take you out of invisibility. And you also spent 4000 mana (if you take into account the old skill for 3 seconds). You are punished more than.
Invisibility has NEVER been imbalanced. There are also potions that give invisibility for 15 seconds, vampirism, and just "sneaking around". Invisibility can be "smeared" in one form or another on any class, while retaining all the advantages of the class itself. And that's not counting the bunch of abilities that ignored invisibility, dot damage, sorcerer's balls, etc.
It’s interesting that you said it was obvious I’ve never played NB when you make blatantly false claims like this.
Anyone with experience on NB prior to the end of last year can tell you that it was absolutely possible to stay invisible for up to 1 full minute if you really pushed it. Just stack Magicka as high as you could stand it and grab every buff to sneaking that you could get. As for the resource drain, NB literally has an ability that gives you back Mag and Stam at the cost of some health, and it doesn’t break stealth.
So yes, you could absolutely spam Cloak before the toggle change.
As far as pulling people out of stealth, let me address that one option at a time.
AOE ABILITIES - This is probably the worst way to do it because these abilities either need to be aimed or they operate in a radius around you. Either way, you need to have some idea of where the NB is and be quick enough to actually use them in time before they get away. Considering that most NBs are nearly maxed out on speed in stealth, the odds of that are slim to none.
DAMAGE OVER TIME - DoTs and poisons have never pulled NBs out of Cloak, except for two things: Structured Entropy and Elemental Susceptibility. However, those abilities pulling NB out of stealth was a mistake that ZoS patched out a few months before the Cloak change. So, for a while, NB could spam Cloak with stealth that literally ignored any DoT placed on them. They’d still take damage, mind you, but they would be invisible while doing it.
CAMOUFLAGED HUNTER/MAGELIGHT - These abilities are specifically intended to pull people out of stealth, and they are both awful at it. A NB would have to be standing on top of you for you to reveal them, and by then it’s too late. However, these skills are good at keeping a NB from returning to stealth once you’ve engaged them…provided they aren’t faster than you.
DETECT POTS - These are the only effective way of pulling NBs out of stealth with essentially no drawbacks. They’re also on a 45 second cooldown once you use one and it runs out, so it’s not foolproof.
SENTRY - This armor set’s 5-piece bonus lets you detect invisible enemies for a few seconds when you crouch. It’s actually pretty effective. However, you have to give up an entire offensive or defensive set to wear it, as detection is all it really gives you. It’s good for group play, but not so great solo.
STREAK - Any NB player will tell you straight up that a good Sorc can eliminate most NBs because of Streak. But that ability needs to be rebalanced too, frankly.
So that makes about three effective counters to Cloak. One is another unbalanced ability, and the other two require you to give up something to deal with stealth specifically.When we talk about "balance" we need to take into account that for having invisibility NB was penalized in all other areas. No area damage (good), no normal control, no damage that goes through block and somersault. NB already paid dearly for invisibility. and now it's been taken away.
Very few abilities go through block and dodge roll. One of the major ones is Meteor from the Mage’s Guild line - which NB has access to, by the way.
And while NB has little in the way of area damage, their fear skill is one of the best control abilities in the game. Why do you think most ball groups keep at least one or two NBs around?
Finally, NB has some of the best single target PvP damage in the game, rivaled only by Sorc. When you can erase people in two hits, as you were designed to do, you don’t need much else. Your point about NB being penalized with a lack of options because of their invisibility is like complaining that a sniper rifle doesn’t have a bayonet fixed to it. That’s not what it’s good at, nor does it enhance what it is good at.The topic was created with the goal of a complete revision of NB. If you and other complete noobs think that it's imba (which is absolutely not the case), then I simply suggest removing it from the game and giving NB other skills on the level of other classes
You can make your point without insulting me, and you can insult me without being wrong. I’ve played this game for five years and mained NB for two of them. I’m far from a noob.
Also, my argument isn’t that Cloak is imbalanced. My argument is that Cloak was imbalanced, but it’s fine now and doesn’t need to go anywhere because it actually requires skill to use. You can’t just spam it and reap the rewards.
NB doesn’t need a “complete revision”. Class identity already suffers enough as is without removing the core ability that makes a Nightblade what it is. If I wanted to run around in heavy armor and smack people with a 2H weapon, I’d play my DK/StamSorc/Warden. I play NB because I want to be quick and stealthy, and it works just fine for that.Let me explain why all the videos shown in this thread are not arguments.
You show video fragments of how NB players +- who know how to play fight against weaklings and noobs, and those who play very badly. And you claim that NB is strong because he killed 10 players (and they are weak). This is exactly the logic.
Do you know every player in the videos that you’re trying to invalidate? Are you 100% certain they’re all “weaklings and noobs” who “play very badly”? By what credentials can you certify that you’re able to tell these things from just a glance?Edited by Oblivion_Protocol on March 27, 2025 8:42PM5 -
NArt✭✭1) Name your id and I will tell you if you are a noob or not. Because I know all the strong players by heart for 6 years of playing
2) Yes, you could have collected 1500 2000 3000 even 4000 mana regen sets, but then the damage suffers. You will not kill a single good player in such a set!!! And you can kill noobs even in completely white gear (video is presented in the comment above)
I wrote in detail with examples and numbers in this thread https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/666473/valaams-donkey . I'll duplicate it if you still don't understand:Here's an example: I have 8000 weapon power, 25,000 penetration of enemy armor, 55% critical chance, 120% critical damage efficiency (Balorgh 500+ Order's Wrath+ Sea-Serpent's Coil + Stygian as an example, provided that everything worked out to the maximum). I hit the enemy with Incap + Grim Focus, and hit, dealing 9,000 +12,000 critical damage. This is provided that I miraculously hit him!!! He did not dodge or block. He just has a Rallying Cry set (-25% critical damage) which simply kills the Nightblade Class. The enemy has 30,000-35,000 health, gets up and heals.
Even if Incapacitating Strike + Grim Focus will deal 20,000 guaranteed damage in total, the enemy has 30-35K health, Armor, passive abilities +5% damage reduction and 10% damage reduction, shields remain, the ultimate ability of the Dragon Knight Magma Armor and other abilities.
From the above, if you didn't understand, the conclusion is this:
NB needs 3 sets for damage, all enchantments on rings for damage, traits for saturation, etc. Everything should be for damage. But you live by your native skill. And even this is not enough (!!!). And if you change 1 set for a protective one and/or traits for reducing the cost/resource regeneration, you will be no more dangerous than a midge.
Telling how you can be invisible for 1 minute here is a child's tale, with a dead build.
3) How can I not call you a noob when you write something like this?
meteor does NOT play block! And it's a general ability, not a class ability.Very few abilities go through block and dodge roll. One of the major ones is Meteor from the Mage’s Guild line - which NB has access to, by the way.
4) show me these 2 skills that you are going to "kill" with? Arrow and incap?
Nobody at the pro level uses them against other strong players. incap cast 0.4 + cd 1 sec and arrow 1 sec, this is more than enough to break control and do a somersault, then block. And if you press very quickly then you just hit a somersault and the accumulated ult and arrow stacks go to waste
5) Absolutely no one has problems with the invisibility of NB. Invisibility cast - 1 sec, Race with Time cast - 1 sec. 2 seconds you are in one place. This is more than enough for the enemy to press AOE damage in this area. You will not have time to leave the area of damage, because such damage is always area. 6) Fear is one of the worst controls in the game. The radius is smaller than the radius of the spam attack. If the enemy is immune or he moved a little further (or teleported like a sorcerer), you just waste mana in vain. In the Fighters Guild branch, there is a similar control, only for stamina. Vampire control is cheaper and almost the same as Fear. No uniqueness when compared to the stick or DK's petrification
6) Everything that NB does can be neutralized with 1 roll or block. All combinations.
With DK, sorcerer, Templar and Warden this will not work.
Example on Templar
Combo Sickle (class ult 70 points) + spear + beam finisher.
All abilities are class-specific. You can't dodge the sickle, you can't block the spear, you can't run away or dodge the beam finisher (28 meters).
And now in a real fight, which takes place in seconds, try to form a tactic to protect yourself from the combination and not get confused. It is possible, but incredibly difficult and will not always work. I repeat, you can ALWAYS do a roll or block from NB.Edited by NArt on March 28, 2025 11:43AM0 -
Oblivion_Protocol✭✭✭✭Okay, I don’t have the energy to respond to every specific point in another giant wall of text, so I’m going to summarize.
First, the example you posted, with all the stats, is flawed. Every enemy is not going to be optimized with, and I quote: “30-35K health, Armor, passive abilities +5% damage reduction and 10% damage reduction, shields remain, the ultimate ability of the Dragon Knight Magma Armor and other abilities.” Most PvP players are missing some pieces from that puzzle, and not everyone runs Rallying Cry. Not everyone has damage shields or a super effective defensive ult.
Also, if your Incap only crit hits for 9K, you built your NB wrong, you used the skill at the wrong time, or you chose the wrong target. I don’t know what else to tell you.
Also also, the build you referred to in your example is a ganker. Gankers don’t always fight people in ideal situations. They generally wait until folks are weakened from other fights or not paying attention.
When I play a gank build, I don’t hit people who have 30-35K health. I certainly don’t hit people whose Rallying Cry proc is up. I hit the dude with 21K health after fighting a Sorc, or the person rooting around in their inventory, or the player who let their defensive buffs drop because they think they’re safe. That’s the playstyle.
However, if you play a NB built to actually stand up in a fight, you’ll have a lot more success in those encounters with more defensive players.
Your original argument boils down to saying that Cloak is a weak ability and NB needs an overhaul because it’s weak. If you do a general search for the term “Nightblade” on this forum, you’ll see literally hundreds, if not thousands, of posts calling for NB to get nerfed because it’s one of the strongest PvP classes in the game. Even with the Cloak change, it still hits hard, stays mobile, and survives almost anything in the right hands.
And that’s the point you seem to keep missing. NB has a high skill ceiling. It’s not a class where you can just slap on Rallying Cry/Wretched/Balorgh/Saint and Seducer and stroll through enemies. You need to actually understand timing, positioning, and efficient skill use to make the most out of it.
If you’re struggling with a class that has a high skill ceiling…I hate to say it, but maybe it doesn’t need an overhaul. Maybe your skill just isn’t high enough to reach the ceiling.Edited by Oblivion_Protocol on March 28, 2025 9:12PM3 -
NArt✭✭Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »Okay, I don’t have the energy to respond to every specific point in another giant wall of text, so I’m going to summarize.
First, the example you posted, with all the stats, is flawed. Every enemy is not going to be optimized with, and I quote: “30-35K health, Armor, passive abilities +5% damage reduction and 10% damage reduction, shields remain, the ultimate ability of the Dragon Knight Magma Armor and other abilities.” Most PvP players are missing some pieces from that puzzle, and not everyone runs Rallying Cry. Not everyone has damage shields or a super effective defensive ult.
Also, if your Incap only crit hits for 9K, you built your NB wrong, you used the skill at the wrong time, or you chose the wrong target. I don’t know what else to tell you.
Also also, the build you referred to in your example is a ganker. Gankers don’t always fight people in ideal situations. They generally wait until folks are weakened from other fights or not paying attention.
When I play a gank build, I don’t hit people who have 30-35K health. I certainly don’t hit people whose Rallying Cry proc is up. I hit the dude with 21K health after fighting a Sorc, or the person rooting around in their inventory, or the player who let their defensive buffs drop because they think they’re safe. That’s the playstyle.
However, if you play a NB built to actually stand up in a fight, you’ll have a lot more success in those encounters with more defensive players.
Your original argument boils down to saying that Cloak is a weak ability and NB needs an overhaul because it’s weak. If you do a general search for the term “Nightblade” on this forum, you’ll see literally hundreds, if not thousands, of posts calling for NB to get nerfed because it’s one of the strongest PvP classes in the game. Even with the Cloak change, it still hits hard, stays mobile, and survives almost anything in the right hands.
And that’s the point you seem to keep missing. NB has a high skill ceiling. It’s not a class where you can just slap on Rallying Cry/Wretched/Balorgh/Saint and Seducer and stroll through enemies. You need to actually understand timing, positioning, and efficient skill use to make the most out of it.
If you’re struggling with a class that has a high skill ceiling…I hate to say it, but maybe it doesn’t need an overhaul. Maybe your skill just isn’t high enough to reach the ceiling.
1) It's funny. Your previous wall of text is even bigger than mine. But it had to be answered
2) "If your incap deals 9k damage - you built the build incorrectly." It also seems funny how my arguments with numbers are used against me. It's NOT me or someone built the "build incorrectly", it's the NB in general that is weak and the game mechanics are aimed at defense, not attack. It's not me who built a "weak" NB with an incap of 9k, but the enemy was able to turn my 20k incap into 9k with his damage nerf, and any other NB can do the same
3) I referred to a duel build in my example. Ganger with a snake? -40% run speed? Are you serious? This build has 28k HP, and in a duel he lives for 10 minutes without invisibility. All stars for attack
4)
This is a joke))))When I play a gank build, I don’t hit people who have 30-35K health. I certainly don’t hit people whose Rallying Cry proc is up. I hit the dude with 21K health after fighting a Sorc, or the person rooting around in their inventory, or the player who let their defensive buffs drop because they think they’re safe. That’s the playstyle.
Don't forget the opponents of AFK. You openly wrote "I only kill weaklings, noobs, PVE kittens" or people who went away from the computer have a smoke. On what class and/or on what build will you not kill a PvE noob with 21k HP?))))) Answer)))
5)
True) from these guys 21 to HP, whom you kill)) all the messages on the forum WILL be from them)))) I write about this in each of my posts)) I'm glad you understood.If you do a general search for the term “Nightblade” on this forum, you’ll see literally hundreds, if not thousands, of posts calling for NB to get nerfed because it’s one of the strongest PvP classes in the game.
You will not see a single message from a strong player about the fact that NB needs to be weakened) because there is almost no one weaker than NB))Edited by NArt on March 29, 2025 8:30AM0 -
Oblivion_Protocol✭✭✭✭2) "If your incap deals 9k damage - you built the build incorrectly." It also seems funny how my arguments with numbers are used against me. It's NOT me or someone built the "build incorrectly", it's the NB in general that is weak and the game mechanics are aimed at defense, not attack. It's not me who built a "weak" NB with an incap of 9k, but the enemy was able to turn my 20k incap into 9k with his damage nerf, and any other NB can do the same
If the enemy turned your 20K incap into a 9K, congrats. You found a tank, and they would do that to anyone. If I said that someone turned my 23K Crystal Frag into an 8K Frag with their defensive abilities, does that mean Sorc is bad? If my Leap only does half the normal damage, does DK need to be buffed?
I’m “using your arguments with numbers against you” because they’re patently false. “Tanks and defensive players with the right gear can reduce my damage, so the class needs an overhaul” is basically the gist of your argument. And that’s not how the game works.3) I referred to a duel build in my example. Ganger with a snake? -40% run speed? Are you serious? This build has 28k HP, and in a duel he lives for 10 minutes without invisibility. All stars for attack
That build could easily be a gank build, as well. If it’s a dueling build that can last 10 minutes without invisibility, you’ve proved that NB can function without Cloak…which skilled players already know.
However, that doesn’t prove your point about Cloak being bad. I could bring up a Warden build that wins without Northern Storm, but it wouldn’t mean that Northern Storm is a bad ability.4) This is a joke))))
Don't forget the opponents of AFK. You openly wrote "I only kill weaklings, noobs, PVE kittens" or people who went away from the computer have a smoke. On what class and/or on what build will you not kill a PvE noob with 21k HP?))))) Answer)))Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »When I play a gank build, I don’t hit people who have 30-35K health. I certainly don’t hit people whose Rallying Cry proc is up. I hit the dude with 21K health after fighting a Sorc, or the person rooting around in their inventory, or the player who let their defensive buffs drop because they think they’re safe. That’s the playstyle.
Reread the bold part. If you were paying attention, and not rushing to a “gotcha” attempt at proving me wrong, you would’ve noticed I said when I play a particular build, not when I play NB period. I was referring to gankers because I thought the build you used as an example was a ganker.
I gank for specific reasons. Others can absolutely gank a player with 35K health and a bunch of resists. But it’s a gamble I don’t always feel like taking.5) True) from these guys 21 to HP, whom you kill)) all the messages on the forum WILL be from them)))) I write about this in each of my posts)) I'm glad you understood.
You will not see a single message from a strong player about the fact that NB needs to be weakened) because there is almost no one weaker than NB))
Again, patently false. Yes, a lot of newer or weaker players complain. But if you actually look rather than make assumptions, you’ll see points being made by veteran players.
Also, “there is almost no one weaker than NB”. But in the same post, you asserted that the NB build I mistook for a ganker “lives for 10 minutes without invisibility”. So which is it? Is the class weak and you’re lying about the build, or is the build solid and your point disproven?Edited by Oblivion_Protocol on March 30, 2025 4:29AM2 -
NArt✭✭Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »Again, patently false.If the enemy turned your 20K incap into a 9K, congrats. You found a tank, and they would do that to anyone. If I said that someone turned my 23K Crystal Frag into an 8K Frag with their defensive abilities, does that mean Sorc is bad? If my Leap only does half the normal damage, does DK need to be buffed?
This is not a tank) A tank will not deal 13k with bugs and 10k with Downbreaker after blocking your combo. This is a normal average good player))) If this is a tank, then the damage to it will be 5k with an arrow)
This is what I'm writing about, if you still don't understand. Any class can have a durable build and excellent damage, not inferior to NB. On NB, you choose either to stand in block with 0 damage, or to deal damage (which is always not enough), and at the same time almost not live.
It's very good that you gave these abilities as an example)
Crystal weapon can work 2 times in 3 seconds. Arrow NB can work 2 times in 3 seconds? Yes or no?
The ultimate ability "Crippling Strike" costs 120 points, the casting time is 0.4 seconds
1) Deals damage
2) Gives control
3) Increases damage to the enemy for 20% 7 seconds.
Now let's calculate the effects of the ultimate ability "flight" of the Dragon Knight. It costs 120 points.
1) Instant cast
2) Damage
3) Mass damage to all nearby enemies
4) Control
5) Mass control to all nearby enemies
6) Cannot be dodged
7) Shield of 20,000
8) Instant rapprochement with the enemy, at any distance
9) Cannot prevent the use of the ultimate ability after pressing. Nightblade 0.4 seconds is an eternity when your casting is interrupted.
10) Throwing the enemy into the air. Which gives a big advantage during the next attack.
11) Almost complete restoration of resources (lives, energy, mana) due to synergy with the passive ability.
3 vs. 11. This is the math with equal cost of the ability (120 points). at the same time, the damage is the same Incap = Leap
Leap, like Encap, can be nerfed in damage. But it has a lot of additional benefits besides dealing damage. Do you understand why I call you a noob? You give examples of arguments that destroy you, and not with opinions or incorrect interpretation of words, but with NUMBERS!!!
In a duel. And for this you need to play for years on NB to learn to live. This is your native ability to play, not class abilities. For example, on a sorcerer you press teleport 2 times and - you are unreachable. Even if you registered 2 days ago in the game.If it’s a dueling build that can last 10 minutes without invisibility, you’ve proved that NB can function without Cloak…which skilled players already know.
From this position it's even worse) NB is not a full-fledged class, but an "addition" to others? You wait until someone does half the work for you, and you finish off the wounded enemy?))))) NB = an addition to other classes, is that what you want to say?) Build, skills, player - it's still some kind of Templar "finishing off" ability?) Amazing!!!Reread the bold part. If you were paying attention, and not rushing to a “gotcha” attempt at proving me wrong, you would’ve noticed I said when I play a particular build, not when I play NB period. I was referring to gankers because I thought the build you used as an example was a ganker.
For 10 minutes you will live due to how you can play, and not due to class skills. I repeat, if you do not understand. With an equal or strong opponent, you will not live for 10 minutes. Playing as a ganker (pure) you will not live for 10 minutes even against a very weak player.Also, “there is almost no one weaker than NB”. But in the same post, you asserted that the NB build I mistook for a ganker “lives for 10 minutes without invisibility”. So which is it? Is the class weak and you’re lying about the build, or is the build solid and your point disproven?
Let me sum it up:
1) If NB is such a "strong" class, show me a NB tank build that will hit 10k with an arrow and 15k with an incapacitation on strong opponents. On other classes, you will be able to build a balance of damage and survivability
2) You do not play NB, this is obvious from what you write, from the fact that "meteor" ignores your block))))) You play other classes like the sorcerer, and do not want the NB class to become at least normal.
3) You answer some of the arguments by distorting them very much. Words and letters can be distorted. But numbers cannot be distorted. And you did not even say your ID)
You consider yourself a strong player, and the NB class is also strong? Right? Excellent!
I suggest you prove your case. Let's get ready for NB, we'll meet in Alikre, and I'll show players for other classes (except NB), and you'll fight them. You'll be able to show:
A) How "effectively" invisibility works
how much (8k) arrow and incap deal
C) and what a strong NB class is and how it wins)
For EVERY victory of yours I'll give you 2,000,000 gold, but for each of your losses you'll give me 1,000,000. And we'll post the results on the forum right here and prove you're right))))
Nb is a very strong class, right? You can easily earn 10+ million gold now for just a few wins) I don't see any reason for you to refuse) I'm sure you already agree)
Edited by NArt on March 30, 2025 10:08AM0 -
Oblivion_Protocol✭✭✭✭Okay, clearly, you have an opinion that you’re not willing to be dissuaded about. I’ve made every attempt at being logical about this, and I haven’t even brought up the fact that virtually no one in this thread agreed with your point.
I honestly don’t have the energy to exchange multiple 700+ word posts, especially if I’m also going to end up repeating myself if I respond to what you say from here on out. So I’m going to just focus on one comment in particular:You consider yourself a strong player, and the NB class is also strong? Right? Excellent!
I suggest you prove your case. Let's get ready for NB, we'll meet in Alikre, and I'll show players for other classes (except NB), and you'll fight them. You'll be able to show:
A) How "effectively" invisibility works how much (8k) arrow and incap deal
C) and what a strong NB class is and how it wins)
For EVERY victory of yours I'll give you 2,000,000 gold, but for each of your losses you'll give me 1,000,000. And we'll post the results on the forum right here and prove you're right))))
Nb is a very strong class, right? You can easily earn 10+ million gold now for just a few wins) I don't see any reason for you to refuse) I'm sure you already agree)
I am a competent player. I never said I’m a strong player or that I’m the best NB. I don’t even duel, to be honest with you. So if I took you up on your challenge, I’d probably get killed a bunch and you would think that you’re right simply because one person out of thousands of NB mains lost a few fights in an isolated environment.
I’m sure you’ll see my refusal to engage as some overwhelming victory and proof of your point or whatever. Just like how you seem to think that all of your rebuttals are some kind of nuke that destroys my every argument, despite the fact that the conversation is in Spain and you’re trying to blow up Brazil, in a manner of speaking.
But the biggest issue is this:
Between this post and the other one you made that you linked to earlier, you’ve said repeatedly that NB does no damage and can’t survive. But at no point have you posted any of the NB builds you used. There’s no footage of you trying and failing with NB.
You’ve just made generalized statements about the class as a whole, and when people (myself included) have pointed out specific areas where you’re wrong, you responded with more generalizations and “NUMBERS!!!” that you seemingly pulled from somewhere south of your colon.
If you’d provided exact examples of what you’re doing with NB to get the results you’re getting, maybe a more experienced player could tell you where you’ve gone wrong or why you’re getting the results you’re getting. But as it stands, all we’ve got is your word that NB is bad. And it’s simply not.
But if you really think NB is so bad, just don’t play it. Stick to DK, Sorc, or whatever else, and leave the NB to others who enjoy it. And one day, when you find that highly skilled, unkillable NB, I hope you don’t make excuses as to why it succeeded with the class where you did not.2 -
NArt✭✭Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »and I haven’t even brought up the fact that virtually no one in this thread agreed with your point.
In a mental hospital there are always more patients than doctors. Doctors are wrong, but patients are right? Is that the logic?
Galileo Galilei was burned for saying that the Earth is not the center of space. When many people told him that he was wrong. Was he wrong too?
If I write "NB is weak as a class" you won't believe me. I need evidence. It has to be presented in great detail.I honestly don’t have the energy to exchange multiple 700+ word postsI am a competent player. I never said I’m a strong player or that I’m the best NB. I don’t even duel, to be honest with you. So if I took you up on your challenge, I’d probably get killed a bunch and you would think that you’re right simply because one person out of thousands of NB mains lost a few fights in an isolated environment.
Finally, you told the truth. When playing not against PVE noobs, you will understand that invisibility is simply impossible to use. No enemy will let you turn it on. You will be knocked out of invisibility every 0.1 seconds, not only by the enemy's skills, but also by your own. IT DOESN'T WORK. The arrow will be a maximum of 11k, and that is critical damage, and that is if the enemy does not block, and he will block. But you cannot block from a streak of 5k damage.
Why can't the opinion of noobs who think I'm wrong be taken into account? Because any player can become strong if they learn to play. But no matter how well you play, you not kill those whose class is 3 times better than yours. No matter how good a cyclist you are, and how fast you ride, a Ferrari will always overtake you. Do you understand?!
Do you think I'm alone? There are entire channels in Discord dedicated to NB. Where they discuss NB problems and what to do about them. Here's an example https://discord.gg/fudxfTdN . and none of the 250 NB players found a solution other than "changing the class to a sorcerer/dk/paladin" etc. Because NB is incredibly weak programmatically and nothing can be done about it.
Honestly, it takes a long time to use a video program. And why? I can make a video where I only win. I can make a video where I only lose. Especially if I'm interested in showing you something. What will that prove?But at no point have you posted any of the NB builds you used. There’s no footage of you trying and failing with NB.
I showed an example of the build above. This is not the main thing. The main thing is that I have tried all the top server builds (for 6 years of play and 7500 hours) and there are none that definitely solved the problem of NB skills. The problem is that class abilities are very weak, not builds.that you seemingly pulled from somewhere south of your colon.
What nonsense) For example, I compared 2 identical ults of DK and NB. and showed the colossal advantage of other class ults over NB. I wrote it in numbers so that it would be clearer even for players with low intelligence. All you need to do is be able to count to 3 and to 11.If you’d provided exact examples of what you’re doing with NB to get the results you’re getting, maybe a more experienced player could tell you where you’ve gone wrong or why you’re getting the results you’re getting. But as it stands, all we’ve got is your word that NB is bad. And it’s simply not.
There are better NB servers, I fought with all of them and studied each of them. And talked to them. They are simply better. But in our duels out of 20 times I could win 5. The duels lasted up to 10 minutes. No one used invisibility, because it is useless. Sometimes you could bring to a draw. These are the players - main NB, they love NB shek and play on them 95% of the time. But as soon as they go for a sorcerer, paladin, DK, keeper and they kill me in 30 seconds. No chance of survival. Because the classes are incredibly stronger than NB, you simply will not be able to resist. You need to go to another class and play. You will not defeat anyone on NB. There is NOT A SINGLE duel tournament on the server in the last 10 years where NB won.
1) I want to play for NB. I like the philosophy of the game of this class. Word of Warcraft, Lineage 2 - in these games, the assassin is not a "humiliated" class, but a full-fledged and strong one. Why is NB humiliated in TESO?But if you really think NB is so bad, just don’t play it. Stick to DK, Sorc, or whatever else, and leave the NB to others who enjoy it.
2) I have a principled position that it is necessary to buff NB.
All other players left this class. In BG, Imperial City, Cyrodiil - 50% of sorcerers and other classes. Only a few play NB. and they run around killing noobs with 20-25k lives or finishing off the wounded) very interesting gameplay
3) In 6 years of playing on this character, everything is open. All skills, all branches, all achievements, all items, all professions, etc. I do not want to start over. But I am ready for 10,000 for 20,000 for 30,000 crowns to buy a class change token right today!!!! And change the class
Okay. If you don't support my proposal about 2,000,000 gold (by the way, it applies to everyone who agrees with you), then we can just come to Alikr, and you will try to play with other classes on your own skin. You will feel the complete defenselessness of NB. And after, you can go for a sorcerer (DK, paladin, even arcanist, etc.), for example, and play with the same opponents again. And you will be surprised by such a difference in the game. You will understand on your own skin that I am rightEdited by NArt on April 1, 2025 6:21AM0 -
Afterip✭✭✭All other players left this class. In BG, Imperial City, Cyrodiil - 50% of sorcerers and other classes. Only a few play NB. and they run around killing noobs with 20-25k lives or finishing off the wounded) very interesting gameplay
It's just that sorcs are very strong right now. But you don't want nerf sorcs, on the contrary, you want nb to become level with them.0 -
NArt✭✭
It's just that sorcs are very strong right now. But you don't want nerf sorcs, on the contrary, you want nb to become level with them.
Not "now", but always. There was not a single patch where sorcerers were weak. There are patches where sorcerers are strong, and there are patches where sorcerers are VERY strong=) I give it as an example, as the simplest example. DK, paladins, templars are not inferior.
Nerf is not quite right. For example, NB are weak, Necromancers too. But this does not mean that we should call "let's make everyone else weaker so that they are on par with the weak classes", no. Players will be very unhappy. We need to strengthen the weak, not weaken the strong.Edited by NArt on April 1, 2025 6:55AM0 -
Afterip✭✭✭There is a pvp quest to kill 20 players of a certain class. And I always cancel the quest to kill necromancers because there are so few of them in Cyro/IС that it takes a week or more to complete! No other class has this problem, not even nb.Edited by Afterip on April 1, 2025 7:25AM1
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Demalb16_ESO✭✭✭
invisibility is VERY good in PVE for doing quests, expecially the guilds quests. Make a build focused on stealth and regen and u can do daily delve, mage daily and other dailyes without problems. It save u tons of time avoiding being seen and not having to do encounter that are a useless waste of time. In pve invisibility is more an "utility" that a dps skill. In pvp is a very good skill to have, if u are a vampire u become invisible with sprint without cost (except the cost fo sprinting) and if u focus on burst damage is a pain in the a** to deal with. Of course u have to create a build around that skill, and maybe a stamina based vampire is better so NArt maybe learn to play before judging, that would be nice.Invisibility is simply not meant to be useful in pve. How would that work ? "Turn invisible, making your enemies die out of the brain damage caused by seeing someone vanish" ? It's insanely good in pvp though, and it shouldn't be deleted even though a lot of people use it to run away, most of the times when the 3v1 fight suddenly turns into a fair fight (seriously, this is my experience with 90% nb I find in cyrodiil).
Now, as for its usefulness in pve : just look at the morphs. The healing one is really useful for solo content as well as tanks but most importantly, the shadowy disguise morph gives you 10% additional damage to pve enemies ! You're meant to use it once every 10 seconds in your rotation to increase your dps. For me, it was the difference between 120k dps and 125k on my stamblade so yeah, it's pretty useful (though I wish zos had made a change that tackles the main problems of this class in pve : it's way more difficult to play than other classes and it has terrible aoe damage, wich this skills makes worse by having such a short timer and by taking the place of twisting path, reducing aoe damage)
1 -
NArt✭✭Demalb16_ESO wrote: »invisibility is VERY good in PVE for doing quests, expecially the guilds quests. Make a build focused on stealth and regen and u can do daily delve, mage daily and other dailyes without problems. It save u tons of time avoiding being seen and not having to do encounter that are a useless waste of time. In pve invisibility is more an "utility" that a dps skill. In pvp is a very good skill to have, if u are a vampire u become invisible with sprint without cost (except the cost fo sprinting) and if u focus on burst damage is a pain in the a** to deal with. Of course u have to create a build around that skill, and maybe a stamina based vampire is better so NArt maybe learn to play before judging, that would be nice.
Assemble a build to complete daily quests for the Mages Guild?)) Without a special build, no way?
Regeneration does not work while you are moving in invisibility. My invisibility allows you to run for 20 seconds, then 0 mana. Or you can stop constantly and wait for the mana to regenerate. Or constantly press the transfer of lives to mana. OH! But if you press the cry or any treatment - when you have low lives - you will exit invisibility immediately.
Invisibility spends 2600 mana every 2 seconds. Stage 4 of vampirism spends 22 stamina per second and you run at a sprint (which is even faster) and can run for 2 minutes without stopping. Any class can take stage 4, instead of assembling a whole build.
In PvP for these 300 weapon strength you get penalties in the form of increased cost of all resources and increased fire damage.
To the Night Blade with 7500 hours of play and top-20 servers they write "learn to play"
)
Here is how invisibility "works"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxoFCNzJ82o
Demalb16_ESO I suggest you learn to think, and then learn to read before you open your mouth and talk nonsense.Edited by NArt on April 1, 2025 12:52PM0 -
Oblivion_Protocol✭✭✭✭Assemble a build to complete daily quests for the Mages Guild?)) Without a special build, no way?
Regeneration does not work while you are moving in invisibility. My invisibility allows you to run for 20 seconds, then 0 mana. Or you can stop constantly and wait for the mana to regenerate. Or constantly press the transfer of lives to mana. OH! But if you press the cry or any treatment - when you have low lives - you will exit invisibility immediately.
Invisibility spends 2600 mana every 2 seconds. Stage 4 of vampirism spends 22 stamina per second and you run at a sprint (which is even faster) and can run for 2 minutes without stopping. Any class can take stage 4, instead of assembling a whole build.
In PvP for these 300 weapon strength you get penalties in the form of increased cost of all resources and increased fire damage.
To the Night Blade with 7500 hours of play and top-20 servers they write "learn to play")
Here is how invisibility "works"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxoFCNzJ82o
Demalb16_ESO I suggest you learn to think, and then learn to read before you open your mouth and talk nonsense.
I presume you’re the NB in that video. You attacked a creature, then tried to stealth out. That’s not how it works in PvE. You’re supposed to Cloak to sneak past them and avoid the fight entirely. Once you’re in combat, that’s it.
The point of Cloak in PvE is to avoid fights or get the auto crit buff. Unless you gain a bunch of distance from the enemy, you can’t just disappear and end the fight.1 -
NArt✭✭Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »I presume you’re the NB in that video. You attacked a creature, then tried to stealth out. That’s not how it works in PvE. You’re supposed to Cloak to sneak past them and avoid the fight entirely. Once you’re in combat, that’s it.
The point of Cloak in PvE is to avoid fights or get the auto crit buff. Unless you gain a bunch of distance from the enemy, you can’t just disappear and end the fight.
no, it's not me. This video is taken from a channel in discord, where NB discusses the fact that invisibility absolutely does not work even in the simplest conditions. I already know this because I tested it. By the way, Pro-players do not use poisons, potions or special abilities against Nb. Why? There are already too many skills that reduce the benefit of invisibility to 0 in combat.
About what you wrote - there is sneak. If you put on 7 average things, you will be invisible for PVE.
Imagine that you explain to the sorcerer "You use teleportation to get to the enemy faster, but as soon as you find yourself in battle - teleportation no longer works."
Edited by NArt on April 1, 2025 5:57PM0 -
NArt✭✭invisibility is a unique ability, for which there are a huge number of countermeasures in the game. Potions, poisons, general abilities of disclosure, Aura of Bosses in the imperial city, several dozen game abilities that ignore invisibility, even your own abilities that disable invisibility.
What, for example, counters the sorcerer's teleportation?? Oh yeah... ingate)) and who has ingate? SORCERERS))))) and only they.
I'll ask the question differently, please tell me any other game ability that has such a number of countermeasures?0 -
Oblivion_Protocol✭✭✭✭no, it's not me. This video is taken from a channel in discord, where NB discusses the fact that invisibility absolutely does not work even in the simplest conditions. I already know this because I tested it. By the way, Pro-players do not use poisons, potions or special abilities against Nb. Why? There are already too many skills that reduce the benefit of invisibility to 0 in combat.
About what you wrote - there is sneak. If you put on 7 average things, you will be invisible for PVE.
Imagine that you explain to the sorcerer "You use teleportation to get to the enemy faster, but as soon as you find yourself in battle - teleportation no longer works."
That doesn’t alter my point about it being used wrong. As for your point about Sorc, Streak doesn’t end an entire combat and allow you to skip it in PvE, which is ultimately what you think Cloak should do.
By the way, “Pro-players do not use poisons, potions, or special abilities against NB”? Ummm, Detect Potions are on almost everyone’s item wheel in PvP. Plenty of good players walk around with dozens, if not hundreds, of them.I'll ask the question differently, please tell me any other game ability that has such a number of countermeasures?
Tell me any other game ability that allows you to skip vast swaths of mechanics and fights. If invisibility had no counters whatsoever, NB would easily be the most broken class in the entire game.
You can run down a Streaking Sorc if you’ve got the speed or are quick enough with a gap closer. Invisibility with no counter would just be absolute death in PvP.
And please don’t try to argue that invisibility having counters makes it bad. That’s just basic game design.
Edited by Oblivion_Protocol on April 2, 2025 1:46AM3
