Invisible

NArt · March 13

Please tell me, for what purpose does the "ability" "invisibility" exist?

The ability does NOT work:
1) I am a mana NB, I cannot approach the enemy in invisibility, because there is no mana regeneration when moving, and if I turn on invisibility and go to the enemy - by the time I approach him, I have 0 mana and can no longer do anything
2) It is impossible to hide in battle. Absolutely any ability of the enemy takes the player out of invisibility. Even simple PVE mobs take you out of invisibility with simple attacks
3) In PVE, invisibility is not useful at all.

You are already tired of weakening an already weak class?

If degenerates with 15,000 lives whine that this is a "strong" ability. WELL, REMOVE it from the game forever!!! Give a normal alternative - a 15,000 shield like sorcerers have in PVP, or good healing, etc.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=XxoFCNzJ82o
an example of how invisibility works in PVE

Navaac223 · March 13

Invisibility is simply not meant to be useful in pve. How would that work ? "Turn invisible, making your enemies die out of the brain damage caused by seeing someone vanish" ? It's insanely good in pvp though, and it shouldn't be deleted even though a lot of people use it to run away, most of the times when the 3v1 fight suddenly turns into a fair fight (seriously, this is my experience with 90% nb I find in cyrodiil).

Now, as for its usefulness in pve : just look at the morphs. The healing one is really useful for solo content as well as tanks but most importantly, the shadowy disguise morph gives you 10% additional damage to pve enemies ! You're meant to use it once every 10 seconds in your rotation to increase your dps. For me, it was the difference between 120k dps and 125k on my stamblade so yeah, it's pretty useful (though I wish zos had made a change that tackles the main problems of this class in pve : it's way more difficult to play than other classes and it has terrible aoe damage, wich this skills makes worse by having such a short timer and by taking the place of twisting path, reducing aoe damage)

NArt · March 13

https://youtube.com/watch?v=XxoFCNzJ82o
an example of how invisibility works in PVE

Navaac223 wrote: »

Invisibility is simply not meant to be useful in pve. How would that work ? "Turn invisible, making your enemies die out of the brain damage caused by seeing someone vanish" ? It's insanely good in pvp though, and it shouldn't be deleted even though a lot of people use it to run away, most of the times when the 3v1 fight suddenly turns into a fair fight (seriously, this is my experience with 90% nb I find in cyrodiil).

Now, as for its usefulness in pve : just look at the morphs. The healing one is really useful for solo content as well as tanks but most importantly, the shadowy disguise morph gives you 10% additional damage to pve enemies ! You're meant to use it once every 10 seconds in your rotation to increase your dps. For me, it was the difference between 120k dps and 125k on my stamblade so yeah, it's pretty useful (though I wish zos had made a change that tackles the main problems of this class in pve : it's way more difficult to play than other classes and it has terrible aoe damage, wich this skills makes worse by having such a short timer and by taking the place of twisting path, reducing aoe damage)

You are partially right. In PvE, invisibility is useless. There is a 10% bonus, but while you spend time using it, you do not waste time dealing damage. I did not say anything about the healing morph, and it is only useful in PvE for tanks, that is true. That is exactly what I wanted to emphasize. In PvP, invisibility does not save (!!!) Almost all skills in the game are pulled out of invisibility. Additionally, you cannot make a heavy attack with a staff from invisibility to regenerate mana.

I have NB invisibility on the panel for the sake of critical chance, you cannot run away from opponents, or approach in invisibility either.
It has been weakened so much that it is useless.

Invisibility cannot be used for defense or attack in PVP. The reasons are described above.
If so many degenerates complain about it - I suggest removing it from the game altogether. Replace it with another useful morph.

Karmen · March 13

when invisibility ends you get a +10% damage bonus against pve mobs for 10seconds, so it might be useful
and having it in one of your bars gives you permanent major savagery, which is a crit bonus.

fred4 · March 14

@NArt and everyone,

In PvE, I believe the 10% damage buff is a net gain in some builds, if you put Shadowy Disguise into your rotation. Regardless, you may slot it for the passive crit buff. Furthermore it can be a life saver, if the tank in your random group loses aggro and the boss targets you. Cloaking will cause you to shed aggro. A (boss) attack, especially a projectile already in the air, may knock you out of cloak again, but basically you recloak and you can eventually shed all NPC aggro, for example in Imperial City.

If you want to move in cloak, you have to build for that. Briefly, you need cost reduction from light armor, being a Breton, and enchants to get your cost down to ~2K. Add a Powered greatsword on the back bar, then alternate Siphoning Attacks and Rally, while moving in cloak. Siphoning Attacks gives you 2.6K magicka (and stamina) per cast, and Rally outheals the health cost while staying cloaked. The Darloc Brae set can also help, but doesn't cover the ongoing cloak cost completely. Might help if you aren't a Breton, don't want to wear light armor, or don't want to use magicka / health cost reduction enchants on jewelry. You will need to be a stage 1 or higher vampire, or pair it with a set, such as Night's Silence, that removes the crouch speed penalty to truly take advantage of Darloc Brae.

Invisibility isn't terribly useful in PvE combat. Stay cloaked for too long in solo content and the fight usually resets. I don't believe you can outwit a Marauder in Infinite Archive with Shadowy Disguise, for example. You can, however, cancel PvE archers "taking aim" at you, for example in Maelstrom Arena or Blackrose Prison. These "taking aim" bow NPCs have a long ramp up time and hit hard. It's useful that briefly cloaking cancels their channeled attack.

In terms of role-playing and casual PvE, invisibility is honestly fantastic. Cloak, if you're harvesting resource nodes and want to avoid NPC aggro along your way. Cloak, if you're fetching a skyshard from a delve, without NPC aggro, albeit you want a perma-cloaking while moving build for that. While you can get close to invisibility with a different build that reduces your detection circle while crouched, nothing beats true invisibility. This especially goes for Dark Brotherhood quests and possibly Thieves Guild also.

Finally, if you're farming a dungeon, it is possible for a cloaked nightblade to skip over trash fights in some of them. They skip to the next boss, engage that boss, and the rest of the group is automatically failsafe ported to the boss fight. You only need one nightblade with half decent cloak sustain in the group. Depending on your group, this can be faster than fighting the trash.

fred4 · March 14

NArt wrote: »

In PvP, invisibility does not save (!!!) Almost all skills in the game are pulled out of invisibility.

I'm a PvP magblade main and, believe me, it works.

Additionally, you cannot make a heavy attack with a staff from invisibility to regenerate mana.

Nope. You either use cloak tactically, briefly, or you have to build for sustain. It isn't outright meta - for maximum damage you can't build like me - but it's perfectly possible to make a magblade that kills (some) players, but also has 100% cloak uptime while moving undetected at other times.

you cannot run away from opponents, or approach in invisibility either.

To use cloak on approach it depends on what kind of nightblade you are. I facilitate it by having high sustain (cost reduction) and using the above perma-cloaking mechanic (Siphoning Attacks + Rally). I don't run down my magicka while moving. However, if I was a bomber or more of a hybrid or stamblade, I might be fine with running my magicka down some while approaching a target to attack. I am not purely ranged, by the way. I use Incap Strike, so I have to go in close for ganking / attacking.

Getting away requires you to either use Shadow Image or have high speed. Maximum speed. All speed CP, Concealed Weapon, all Swift Jewelry, possibly the Wild Hunt ring, Race Against Time (essential) and, in my case, even the Steed mundus and all Divines armor. Don't bellieve me? The following video is from an older patch, but the build still works after some adjustments. It shows me soloing an IC boss and being unsuccessfully ganked by two other nightblades towards the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBdLIeihspY

NArt · March 14

fred4 wrote: »

show previous quotes

NArt wrote: »

In PvP, invisibility does not save (!!!) Almost all skills in the game are pulled out of invisibility.

I'm a PvP magblade main and, believe me, it works.
show previous quotes

Additionally, you cannot make a heavy attack with a staff from invisibility to regenerate mana.

Nope. You either use cloak tactically, briefly, or you have to build for sustain. It isn't outright meta - for maximum damage you can't build like me - but it's perfectly possible to make a magblade that kills (some) players, but also has 100% cloak uptime while moving undetected at other times.
show previous quotes

you cannot run away from opponents, or approach in invisibility either.

To use cloak on approach it depends on what kind of nightblade you are. I facilitate it by having high sustain (cost reduction) and using the above perma-cloaking mechanic (Siphoning Attacks + Rally). I don't run down my magicka while moving. However, if I was a bomber or more of a hybrid or stamblade, I might be fine with running my magicka down some while approaching a target to attack. I am not purely ranged, by the way. I use Incap Strike, so I have to go in close for ganking / attacking.

Getting away requires you to either use Shadow Image or have high speed. Maximum speed. All speed CP, Concealed Weapon, all Swift Jewelry, possibly the Wild Hunt ring, Race Against Time (essential) and, in my case, even the Steed mundus and all Divines armor. Don't bellieve me? The following video is from an older patch, but the build still works after some adjustments. It shows me soloing an IC boss and being unsuccessfully ganked by two other nightblades towards the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBdLIeihspY

Dude, no offense, but you wrote such nonsense.... That even citing arguments seems stupid. As if you're arguing with a wall
And a lot of text.
NB has one of the lowest damage in the game, due to the fact that defensive mechanics work against every skill. The arrow can be blocked or rolled. For example, a roll does not help against the sorcerer's curse. I will not write many more examples. In your comments, you suggest putting together an entire build to reduce the cost of invisibility. Ok. And what will you kill the enemy with?? I have 3 sets for damage, all enchantments for weapon strength and I critically lack damage. it is not enough. I am not even talking about the fact that rally brings out of invisibility.
In the Video, NB has an arrow of 33k damage Maximum crit. My arrow is 52k crit. In a normal PvP player, my arrow deals 8k damage with a critical hit, which is incredibly little. In the video, NB will deal 5k with an arrow, it won't just kill anyone, it won't even "tickle".

NArt · March 14

fred4 wrote: »

I'm a PvP magblade main and, believe me, it works.

I have been playing PvP on NB for 6 years. Here I described in detail all its problems and the advantage of opponents https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/666473/

The main problem is that many PVE players enter a PvP location with 15-25k HP in PVE builds with a ping of 200+. They die from 2 hits of NB, which has 50-100 ping and has been playing PvP for several years. And they run to the forum to cry and complain. Despite the fact that if they played on NB themselves, they would die not in 2 seconds, but in 0.001 seconds.
The developers listen to these idiots and make NB weaker.

Invisibility is a "stumbling block", an "eye sore" for PVE idiots. Trying to give numbers, tables, arguments that this is not so is useless. Therefore, I suggest simply replacing invisibility with another skill.

Nobody is crying on the forum about sorcerers. Who have the BEST control in the game and maneuverability. Nobody is crying that a sorcerer can escape from a fight in 2 seconds (1 of which ALL enemies will be in control). Nobody is crying that a crystal weapon deals 15k damage and can "work" 2 times in a row. Nobody is crying that paladins have a finishing ability, from which you cannot escape at 28 meters with monstrous damage. Nobody is crying about DK's Flight, which is the best ult in the game and kills 2-3 enemies in 1 use.
But everyone is crying that invisibility is a "strong skill". Okay. Please remove it from the game and add something else instead.

And another question, why did you throw off the video, which is a YEAR OLD (!!) and then invisibility worked fine - 3 seconds and mana regeneration worked in invisibility
The absurdity

Renato90085 · March 14

no, invisibility some time still work in pve
as a pve endgame nb main
my exp invisibility can do some mech,like in vcr+3 solo portal you can never got dark ball dmg or vdsr hm go use tie rod and never struck by Lightning(main dodge some dmg)

Navaac223 · March 14

NArt wrote: »

show previous quotes

fred4 wrote: »

I'm a PvP magblade main and, believe me, it works.

I have been playing PvP on NB for 6 years. Here I described in detail all its problems and the advantage of opponents https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/666473/

The main problem is that many PVE players enter a PvP location with 15-25k HP in PVE builds with a ping of 200+. They die from 2 hits of NB, which has 50-100 ping and has been playing PvP for several years. And they run to the forum to cry and complain. Despite the fact that if they played on NB themselves, they would die not in 2 seconds, but in 0.001 seconds.
The developers listen to these idiots and make NB weaker.

Invisibility is a "stumbling block", an "eye sore" for PVE idiots. Trying to give numbers, tables, arguments that this is not so is useless. Therefore, I suggest simply replacing invisibility with another skill.

Nobody is crying on the forum about sorcerers. Who have the BEST control in the game and maneuverability. Nobody is crying that a sorcerer can escape from a fight in 2 seconds (1 of which ALL enemies will be in control). Nobody is crying that a crystal weapon deals 15k damage and can "work" 2 times in a row. Nobody is crying that paladins have a finishing ability, from which you cannot escape at 28 meters with monstrous damage. Nobody is crying about DK's Flight, which is the best ult in the game and kills 2-3 enemies in 1 use.
But everyone is crying that invisibility is a "strong skill". Okay. Please remove it from the game and add something else instead.

And another question, why did you throw off the video, which is a YEAR OLD (!!) and then invisibility worked fine - 3 seconds and mana regeneration worked in invisibility
The absurdity

Oh come on, this is the second time a nb main complains that nb isn't op enough in pvp this week !
How have you been on this class for so long and still think invisibility is bad ? I'm a necro main, but I also play on other classes so I have 300h on pvp magblade and I can tell you with 100% confidence that it is the easiest class to play in pvp and that invisibility is insane and would easily make other classes op if they had it.
If you have been pvping on nb for 6 years, maybe it's time for you to go look at classes like necro, templar and arcanist, to see that not every class gets like 10 different buffs for simply slotting some abilities, or even the luxury of having a class spammable that is better than hidden blade. The only thing that can be better than a nightblade right now is a max stat magsorcs using hardened ward and, guess what, a lot of people are complaining about it (and with good reasons) but it's only marginally above nightblade. The only "nerf" nb got in the last 2 years was the change to cloak, wich is honestly the most "first world problem" nerf I've seen people complain about. Meanwhile, necro got GLS..

NArt · March 14

Oh come on, this is the second time a nb main complains that nb isn't op enough in pvp this week !
How have you been on this class for so long and still think invisibility is bad ? I'm a necro main, but I also play on other classes so I have 300h on pvp magblade and I can tell you with 100% confidence that it is the easiest class to play in pvp and that invisibility is insane and would easily make other classes op if they had it.
If you have been pvping on nb for 6 years, maybe it's time for you to go look at classes like necro, templar and arcanist, to see that not every class gets like 10 different buffs for simply slotting some abilities, or even the luxury of having a class spammable that is better than hidden blade. The only thing that can be better than a nightblade right now is a max stat magsorcs using hardened ward and, guess what, a lot of people are complaining about it (and with good reasons) but it's only marginally above nightblade. The only "nerf" nb got in the last 2 years was the change to cloak, wich is honestly the most "first world problem" nerf I've seen people complain about. Meanwhile, necro got GLS..

1) Necromancer is the second weakest class in the game along with NB. Necromancer is really nerfed. 2 classes that I have no problems with in duels and other fights are NB and Necromancer.
2) Yes, I played 7k+ hours on NB and only 50 hours on Sorcerer and DK. In these 50 hours, I dealt with all the opponents that I could not kill on NB in any way, absolutely no way. NB is the most difficult and "ping-dependent" class

I repeat. The topic is about invisibility. If it is so "unbearably" imbalanced from the point of view of noobs, then I suggest removing it and replacing it with another class ability, so as not to resort to this issue anymore.
Invisibility is useless now

Kahnak · March 14

Is this another one of those "I'm a Nightblade, woe is me" threads?

While you're arguing with experienced players like @fred4 here, who took the time to try an explain how you can make a build work, there are plenty of other Nightblades kicking butt wholesale in every aspect of PVP right now. Be like them; be better.

Renato90085 · March 14

NArt wrote: »

show previous quotes

Oh come on, this is the second time a nb main complains that nb isn't op enough in pvp this week !
How have you been on this class for so long and still think invisibility is bad ? I'm a necro main, but I also play on other classes so I have 300h on pvp magblade and I can tell you with 100% confidence that it is the easiest class to play in pvp and that invisibility is insane and would easily make other classes op if they had it.
If you have been pvping on nb for 6 years, maybe it's time for you to go look at classes like necro, templar and arcanist, to see that not every class gets like 10 different buffs for simply slotting some abilities, or even the luxury of having a class spammable that is better than hidden blade. The only thing that can be better than a nightblade right now is a max stat magsorcs using hardened ward and, guess what, a lot of people are complaining about it (and with good reasons) but it's only marginally above nightblade. The only "nerf" nb got in the last 2 years was the change to cloak, wich is honestly the most "first world problem" nerf I've seen people complain about. Meanwhile, necro got GLS..

1) Necromancer is the second weakest class in the game along with NB. Necromancer is really nerfed. 2 classes that I have no problems with in duels and other fights are NB and Necromancer.
2) Yes, I played 7k+ hours on NB and only 50 hours on Sorcerer and DK. In these 50 hours, I dealt with all the opponents that I could not kill on NB in any way, absolutely no way. NB is the most difficult and "ping-dependent" class

I repeat. The topic is about invisibility. If it is so "unbearably" imbalanced from the point of view of noobs, then I suggest removing it and replacing it with another class ability, so as not to resort to this issue anymore.
Invisibility is useless now

um yes, nb very "ping-dependent" because in high ping cloak /melee spam and 2 class ult(have cast time)can't do good work
But I mean ,If you play eso PvP in 200-400+ping like me,I alway dead in some 30-70ping good pvper
Class not important actually...because you still dead in auto break free and dead log say you got 4+ spam in 1sec
if you feel a class is weak ,Ping really can't be a reason...

NArt · March 14

Kahnak wrote: »

Is this another one of those "I'm a Nightblade, woe is me" threads?

While you're arguing with experienced players like @fred4 here, who took the time to try an explain how you can make a build work, there are plenty of other Nightblades kicking butt wholesale in every aspect of PVP right now. Be like them; be better.

"Experienced player"?)))))))))))))
I am the top 20 NB server EU. All NB who are better than me or at my level - I know by nicknames. And there are no Freds there and not even close.
Do you even read what I write? The person gave the advice "make a build for 1 defensive ability" as an argument, which automatically puts him on the level of a noob.
The video, which was given as an argument, has a period of ONE YEAR, before the nerf of invisibility. In the video, he ran away from 2 NB, instead of killing them in a couple of seconds)) these are just NB gankers, it's funny, they crumble like houses of cards. And he ran away in disgrace.
Do you really think that I will listen to a player who does not know how to play?

NArt · March 14

Renato90085 wrote: »

show previous quotes

NArt wrote: »

Oh come on, this is the second time a nb main complains that nb isn't op enough in pvp this week !
How have you been on this class for so long and still think invisibility is bad ? I'm a necro main, but I also play on other classes so I have 300h on pvp magblade and I can tell you with 100% confidence that it is the easiest class to play in pvp and that invisibility is insane and would easily make other classes op if they had it.
If you have been pvping on nb for 6 years, maybe it's time for you to go look at classes like necro, templar and arcanist, to see that not every class gets like 10 different buffs for simply slotting some abilities, or even the luxury of having a class spammable that is better than hidden blade. The only thing that can be better than a nightblade right now is a max stat magsorcs using hardened ward and, guess what, a lot of people are complaining about it (and with good reasons) but it's only marginally above nightblade. The only "nerf" nb got in the last 2 years was the change to cloak, wich is honestly the most "first world problem" nerf I've seen people complain about. Meanwhile, necro got GLS..

1) Necromancer is the second weakest class in the game along with NB. Necromancer is really nerfed. 2 classes that I have no problems with in duels and other fights are NB and Necromancer.
2) Yes, I played 7k+ hours on NB and only 50 hours on Sorcerer and DK. In these 50 hours, I dealt with all the opponents that I could not kill on NB in any way, absolutely no way. NB is the most difficult and "ping-dependent" class

I repeat. The topic is about invisibility. If it is so "unbearably" imbalanced from the point of view of noobs, then I suggest removing it and replacing it with another class ability, so as not to resort to this issue anymore.
Invisibility is useless now

um yes, nb very "ping-dependent" because in high ping cloak /melee spam and 2 class ult(have cast time)can't do good work
But I mean ,If you play eso PvP in 200-400+ping like me,I alway dead in some 30-70ping good pvper
Class not important actually...because you still dead in auto break free and dead log say you got 4+ spam in 1sec
if you feel a class is weak ,Ping really can't be a reason...

DK, sorc, paladin - do not depend on ping. Feel great at 200-250. At 300+ it is almost impossible to play on any class.
DK applies ticking damage, which ticks on its own for 20 seconds and does not care about ping. The ability to fly is applied instantly and while DK is "flying" he cannot be controlled - all this is ignored by high ping.
The sorcerer has a streak with damage, a curse and a crystal weapon, which also does not depend much on ping.

Renato90085 · March 14

NArt wrote: »

show previous quotes

Renato90085 wrote: »

NArt wrote: »

Oh come on, this is the second time a nb main complains that nb isn't op enough in pvp this week !
How have you been on this class for so long and still think invisibility is bad ? I'm a necro main, but I also play on other classes so I have 300h on pvp magblade and I can tell you with 100% confidence that it is the easiest class to play in pvp and that invisibility is insane and would easily make other classes op if they had it.
If you have been pvping on nb for 6 years, maybe it's time for you to go look at classes like necro, templar and arcanist, to see that not every class gets like 10 different buffs for simply slotting some abilities, or even the luxury of having a class spammable that is better than hidden blade. The only thing that can be better than a nightblade right now is a max stat magsorcs using hardened ward and, guess what, a lot of people are complaining about it (and with good reasons) but it's only marginally above nightblade. The only "nerf" nb got in the last 2 years was the change to cloak, wich is honestly the most "first world problem" nerf I've seen people complain about. Meanwhile, necro got GLS..

1) Necromancer is the second weakest class in the game along with NB. Necromancer is really nerfed. 2 classes that I have no problems with in duels and other fights are NB and Necromancer.
2) Yes, I played 7k+ hours on NB and only 50 hours on Sorcerer and DK. In these 50 hours, I dealt with all the opponents that I could not kill on NB in any way, absolutely no way. NB is the most difficult and "ping-dependent" class

I repeat. The topic is about invisibility. If it is so "unbearably" imbalanced from the point of view of noobs, then I suggest removing it and replacing it with another class ability, so as not to resort to this issue anymore.
Invisibility is useless now

um yes, nb very "ping-dependent" because in high ping cloak /melee spam and 2 class ult(have cast time)can't do good work
But I mean ,If you play eso PvP in 200-400+ping like me,I alway dead in some 30-70ping good pvper
Class not important actually...because you still dead in auto break free and dead log say you got 4+ spam in 1sec
if you feel a class is weak ,Ping really can't be a reason...

DK, sorc, paladin - do not depend on ping. Feel great at 200-250. At 300+ it is almost impossible to play on any class.
DK applies ticking damage, which ticks on its own for 20 seconds and does not care about ping. The ability to fly is applied instantly and while DK is "flying" he cannot be controlled - all this is ignored by high ping.
The sorcerer has a streak with damage, a curse and a crystal weapon, which also does not depend much on ping.

sure, I main play Pve but I play some PvP when I not have any trial hm run,and I only not have arc PvP build
in 280 ping my dk flying some time still can't work ,I really can "flying"but die in a spam
but I not say flying is a weak ult because I know I have a bad ping
Nb cloak in high ping weak because you cast cloak but in low ping player pov you are not Invisible
So you just waste magic and still got dmg
Today if I use any class duel a low ping nb,he alway can dodge my attack and do high dmg
so I need say cloak weak or op?
and lol my PvP main is necro(only rank 27)so nb is op for me

fred4 · March 15

NArt wrote: »

show previous quotes

Kahnak wrote: »

Is this another one of those "I'm a Nightblade, woe is me" threads?

While you're arguing with experienced players like @fred4 here, who took the time to try an explain how you can make a build work, there are plenty of other Nightblades kicking butt wholesale in every aspect of PVP right now. Be like them; be better.

"Experienced player"?)))))))))))))
I am the top 20 NB server EU. All NB who are better than me or at my level - I know by nicknames. And there are no Freds there and not even close.
Do you even read what I write? The person gave the advice "make a build for 1 defensive ability" as an argument, which automatically puts him on the level of a noob.
The video, which was given as an argument, has a period of ONE YEAR, before the nerf of invisibility. In the video, he ran away from 2 NB, instead of killing them in a couple of seconds)) these are just NB gankers, it's funny, they crumble like houses of cards. And he ran away in disgrace.
Do you really think that I will listen to a player who does not know how to play?

Let's say you're accurately representing who you are. Congratulations, you're a top player on PC EU. Whatever that means. I assume you're strong at duelling and fighting outnumbered. Not all players can do that, but not all aim for it either. The fallacy in your argument is that the game - an RPG - should be balanced around you and other players like you. Simply don't use cloak, if it doesn't suit you. Other players of varying competency are finding the skill useful and/or fun. You were even trying to make out like cloak has no use in PvE only to support your argument. You can't possibly make out like that is true.

NArt · March 15

Let's say you're accurately representing who you are. Congratulations, you're a top player on PC EU. Whatever that means. I assume you're strong at duelling and fighting outnumbered. Not all players can do that, but not all aim for it either. The fallacy in your argument is that the game - an RPG - should be balanced around you and other players like you. Simply don't use cloak, if it doesn't suit you. Other players of varying competency are finding the skill useful and/or fun. You were even trying to make out like cloak has no use in PvE only to support your argument. You can't possibly make out like that is true.

I will point out an important point: I do not want to offend anyone in my post or comments. This is important. I am offended by such primitive and incorrect reasoning of players, to which the Zos listen.
You are wrong, the game MUST be balanced. For what reason not? That at the noob level it is not convenient to play PvP against one class? Well, then do not play! Or swear at the Zos because of the balance of the distribution of teams in the BG. When a noob plays against a Pro NB and cries that he was killed in 2 seconds - this is not the information that you need to listen to.

And most importantly, there must be a balance. Each player can become strong in his class if he wants. But if we take 2 players of equal strength, but one has a weak class (NB, necromancer) and the second is strong (Sorcerer, paladin), then the first player will always lose, and this is not fair.

fred4 · March 15

NArt wrote: »

show previous quotes

Let's say you're accurately representing who you are. Congratulations, you're a top player on PC EU. Whatever that means. I assume you're strong at duelling and fighting outnumbered. Not all players can do that, but not all aim for it either. The fallacy in your argument is that the game - an RPG - should be balanced around you and other players like you. Simply don't use cloak, if it doesn't suit you. Other players of varying competency are finding the skill useful and/or fun. You were even trying to make out like cloak has no use in PvE only to support your argument. You can't possibly make out like that is true.

I will point out an important point: I do not want to offend anyone in my post or comments. This is important. I am offended by such primitive and incorrect reasoning of players, to which the Zos listen.
You are wrong, the game MUST be balanced. For what reason not? That at the noob level it is not convenient to play PvP against one class? Well, then do not play! Or swear at the Zos because of the balance of the distribution of teams in the BG. When a noob plays against a Pro NB and cries that he was killed in 2 seconds - this is not the information that you need to listen to.

And most importantly, there must be a balance. Each player can become strong in his class if he wants. But if we take 2 players of equal strength, but one has a weak class (NB, necromancer) and the second is strong (Sorcerer, paladin), then the first player will always lose, and this is not fair.

Please re-read carefully what I said. I didn't say the game should not be balanced. I said the game should not be balanced (solely) around "top" players, such as yourself. To everyone else here, what NArt is saying about nightblade is actually in line with what a friend of mine has said about competitive dueling (a while ago). The class is strong in open world. It is strong against what he called "mediocre" players. It is, however, apparently not strong at highly competitive duelling or, perhaps, also 1vXing anymore.

My point is that this does not matter. Shadowy Disguise has advantages for new players, for "mid-level" players, such as myself, and simply for players whose objective isn't to win duels or to 1vX, but who like playing solo, who like to survive by disengaging, to bring Tel Var home, and so on. This comes with a cost. The balancing cost of having that capability is, I suspect, precisely that the class isn't top in duelling anymore. If it was, it would most likely find itself in the position magsorc is currently in, e.g. universally agreed as being (somewhat) OP, even by magsorcs themselves.

You're basically saying "get rid of Shadowy Disguise", so nightblade may be better balanced around your level of play. Most likely to also balance it around your playstyle which, I'm guessing, involves solo or small scale PvP for it's own sake. Forget the PvPvE of IC, forget Tel Var farming, forget Cyrodiil and BG objectives. Trying to emulate competitive streamers and YouTubers is the only way to enjoy ESO, is it?

I'm saying no to that. That is not how everyone plays ESO, that is not what everyone's goals are, and that is not how you balance an RPG. Indeed it is not how I believe ZOS are balancing ESO. They get a lot of stick, especially from "high-end" endgame players, over balance. However, with the possible exception of necro, I suspect they are balancing the game quite successfully in reality. Just not in the way you think. I believe they look at how many players choose to play each class. If players choose classes in equal proportion, then the game is balanced. The reasons ultimately don't matter. This may be an oversimplification, but I think ZOS are definitely leaning in that direction, and probably rightly so.

What you're suggesting destroys class identity. You want NB to have a shield, instead of cloak? This is an RPG. We already have a class with good shields and with mobility. It's called sorc. If that's the playstyle you like, play one of those.

If you prefer a highly competitive game, ESO, while it has skill-based aspects, is simply not that game. Neither is any RPG. You want to measure your true skill, you need to play a game balanced by every player having the exact same tools. In ESO, on the other hand, being overly competitive turns you into a forum warrior, not an actual one.

Kahnak · March 15

NArt wrote: »

show previous quotes

Kahnak wrote: »

Is this another one of those "I'm a Nightblade, woe is me" threads?

While you're arguing with experienced players like @fred4 here, who took the time to try an explain how you can make a build work, there are plenty of other Nightblades kicking butt wholesale in every aspect of PVP right now. Be like them; be better.

"Experienced player"?)))))))))))))
I am the top 20 NB server EU. All NB who are better than me or at my level - I know by nicknames. And there are no Freds there and not even close.
Do you even read what I write? The person gave the advice "make a build for 1 defensive ability" as an argument, which automatically puts him on the level of a noob.
The video, which was given as an argument, has a period of ONE YEAR, before the nerf of invisibility. In the video, he ran away from 2 NB, instead of killing them in a couple of seconds)) these are just NB gankers, it's funny, they crumble like houses of cards. And he ran away in disgrace.
Do you really think that I will listen to a player who does not know how to play?

"I am the top 20 NB server EU"

Deltia?

"All NB who are better than me or at my level - I know by nicknames."

I'm not convinced you know anyone with the way you've acted in this thread.

"Do you even read what I write?"

I've been trying, but everything you've written thus far has been in the form of a feverish rant.

"which automatically puts him on the level of a noob"

This is funny coming from the person who can't seem to make invisibility work.

"Do you really think that I will listen to a player who does not know how to play"

Well, you don't seem particularly interested in listening, period, so the point is kind of moot.

Veinblood1965 · March 20

The OP is correct. My main PVP toon is a NB and I do not use the new changes to sneak up like I used to. I use alternate means.

It IS good for staying in stealth right beside the enemy though, just pop up burn a siege, and invis again, move over and burn another, I burn a TON of siege until someone pops an invis pot or something. I burned about ten the other night of one player, I felt so bad for him, that had to suck but then again that's PVP.

It's worthless other than for moving very short distances and you cannot run which makes it worse. You can also just crouch and stealth out but for some reason that isn't as good and you get seen more often.

fred4 · March 21

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

It's worthless other than for moving very short distances and you cannot run which makes it worse.

NArt wrote: »

I am not even talking about the fact that rally brings out of invisibility.

This is simply misinformation. For now, at least, a fast, cloaking magblade is still viable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IdxmUID8OQ

Artim_X · March 22

All forms of Invisibility are fine as is. I have not had any issues with vamp invisibility, potion invisibility, or nightblade invisibility. Timing and player awareness will make the difference.

NArt · March 23

fred4 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

It's worthless other than for moving very short distances and you cannot run which makes it worse.

show previous quotes

NArt wrote: »

I am not even talking about the fact that rally brings out of invisibility.

This is simply misinformation. For now, at least, a fast, cloaking magblade is still viable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IdxmUID8OQ

Your entire combination of blows only penetrates the sorcerer's shield with great difficulty, and not always. During the entire fight, you were only able to use invisibility once when the enemy stopped attacking you and went to fight the yellow one, without restoring his HP. Do you really think that this is an "argument"?

fred4 · March 23

NArt wrote: »

show previous quotes

fred4 wrote: »

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

It's worthless other than for moving very short distances and you cannot run which makes it worse.

NArt wrote: »

I am not even talking about the fact that rally brings out of invisibility.

This is simply misinformation. For now, at least, a fast, cloaking magblade is still viable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IdxmUID8OQ

Your entire combination of blows only penetrates the sorcerer's shield with great difficulty, and not always. During the entire fight, you were only able to use invisibility once when the enemy stopped attacking you and went to fight the yellow one, without restoring his HP. Do you really think that this is an "argument"?

You were unhappy when I showed you a video of me cloaking away from two other nightblades. You called me a bad player, because I didn't choose to fight on that occasion. Now I showed you a duel where I chose to fight. How many more scenarios must I show?

Yes, experienced sorcs are my worst nightmare. My build's worst nightmare. You don't cloak away from them, because they streak you, because they know when to do it, because they know how to follow it up. However, this is specific to sorcs. It's the rock, paper, scissors effect. I cloaked for momentary relief and to get the armor buff only.

When you duel someone competent, you're generally better off facing them, pressuring them, staying on target. Making the other person back off is what brings you relief from damage. This doesn't mean Cloak is useless. It just means that Cloak is not Streak. Streak has high tactical value and limited strategic value. Streak helps in the middle of a fight, but struggles (comparatively) if you want to disengage altogether. Cloak works the other way around.

As regards the combat, you have not understood what was going on. I was running Jerral and Chilling Soul with Major Defile. My goal was not to penetrate the sorc's shield and burst him. My goal was to wear him down, outsustain him, and prevent him from fully healing underneath his shield. By the end of the fight he likely had the full 43% Defile on him that my build is capable of. Yes, he Dawnbreakered and almost got me, but he had also started streaking defensively by that point. As a good player he continued to fight, but I most likely got him, because his Streak and dodge roll budget was eventually spent. He didn't choose to run towards the yellow at low health, with his defenses completely down, that's for sure.

NArt · March 23

fred4 wrote: »

show previous quotes

NArt wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

It's worthless other than for moving very short distances and you cannot run which makes it worse.

NArt wrote: »

I am not even talking about the fact that rally brings out of invisibility.

This is simply misinformation. For now, at least, a fast, cloaking magblade is still viable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IdxmUID8OQ

Your entire combination of blows only penetrates the sorcerer's shield with great difficulty, and not always. During the entire fight, you were only able to use invisibility once when the enemy stopped attacking you and went to fight the yellow one, without restoring his HP. Do you really think that this is an "argument"?

You were unhappy when I showed you a video of me cloaking away from two other nightblades. You called me a bad player, because I didn't choose to fight on that occasion. Now I showed you a duel where I chose to fight. How many more scenarios must I show?

Yes, experienced sorcs are my worst nightmare. My build's worst nightmare. You don't cloak away from them, because they streak you, because they know when to do it, because they know how to follow it up. However, this is specific to sorcs. It's the rock, paper, scissors effect. I cloaked for momentary relief and to get the armor buff only.

When you duel someone competent, you're generally better off facing them, pressuring them, staying on target. Making the other person back off is what brings you relief from damage. This doesn't mean Cloak is useless. It just means that Cloak is not Streak. Streak has high tactical value and limited strategic value. Streak helps in the middle of a fight, but struggles (comparatively) if you want to disengage altogether. Cloak works the other way around.

As regards the combat, you have not understood what was going on. I was running Jerral and Chilling Soul with Major Defile. My goal was not to penetrate the sorc's shield and burst him. My goal was to wear him down, outsustain him, and prevent him from fully healing underneath his shield. By the end of the fight he likely had the full 43% Defile on him that my build is capable of. Yes, he Dawnbreakered and almost got me, but he had also started streaking defensively by that point. As a good player he continued to fight, but I most likely got him, because his Streak and dodge roll budget was eventually spent. He didn't choose to run towards the yellow at low health, with his defenses completely down, that's for sure.

1) you don't have to prove anything to me
2) it's not about my "satisfaction" or "dissatisfaction" with you. It's about invisibility.
3) The main point of my post is that invisibility is useless in the game. You can find a very situational short application for it, but it doesn't justify the whole skill.
4) The essence of your build is clear. But it only works against noobs. You will never "lose" the resources of a normal PvP player. This is a fact. I used much more advanced tactics compared to you. In addition to large resource regeneration, I used control, slowdown, and binding to a place on CD to force the enemy to use resources to fight. Yes, it helps, but an experienced player will never allow his resources to be drained to 0.
I will repeat it again. The whole point of my post is to completely rework invisibility, remove it from the game, and replace it with something else.

fred4 · March 23

NArt wrote: »

3) The main point of my post is that invisibility is useless in the game. You can find a very situational short application for it, but it doesn't justify the whole skill.

You say this as though it is a fact. Perhaps it's true from your point of view, from the point of view of your playstyle and from someone whose sole focus seems to be competitive combat. Combat for it's own sake, like in competitive sports. In my opinion that reflects a very narrow view of what an MMORPG is and how it should be balanced. As I've explained before, I don't subscribe to that view.

The point of the video was to show that sustained movement in cloak can yet be made to work, that your assertion about Rally was incorrect, and that such a build is capable of combat, e.g. it's not entirely relegated to a niche. While using Cloak to counter sorcs is tough, please take my two videos together as a whole. You claim Cloak is useless, yet I already showed how it can be used to disengage and save your Tel Var. I consider that useful.

Speaking more broadly, there are both practical and psychological reasons why cloaking builds appeal to people. The practical ones include playing solo, not being zerged at every opportunity and having a long ride afterwards, questing in PvP areas, bringing Tel Var home, and so on. The psychological ones include being an observer by nature, valuing control over your PvP encounters, not enjoying gameplay where you get bogged down in an endless fight, and not wanting to die full stop. The last one, I suspect, is shared by many players who either cloak, streak, build tanky, fast, or with high sustain. Of these options, I find Cloak the strongest one, if you also build for speed and sustain.

If you view ESO as a purely competitive game, then I can understand how you would find especially the psychological factors irrelevant. I, on the other hand, do not consider MMORPGs to be purely competitive. I consider self-expression, e.g. role-playing, and just simply playstyle variety important. The invisible assassin / nightblade archetype shines in terms of class identity. In my view, this is not something you throw away.

Afterip · March 24

As I see, magblades are still strong in good hands.

Icy_Waffles · March 25

You’re not using it correctly. Absolute game changer in solo arenas and PvP.

NArt · March 26

Afterip wrote: »

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2413320423

As I see, magblades are still strong in good hands.

MK-01, if NB is so "good", then why do you play paladin 99% of the time?))

Afterip · March 26

NArt wrote: »

MK-01, if NB is so "good", then why do you play paladin 99% of the time?))

I'm sorry, but I'm not him. I just like watching strong pvp players play.