Feedback Thread for Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)

Lags · March 25

Arcadere wrote: »

Balancing PVP and PVE seperately is always the right choice.
Additionally, casual players make up over 90% of the player-base, this is worth noting;
So, making PVP more accessible to everybody and not just sweats will also be more profitable in the long run than trying to appease meta-chasing PVP streamer bros and the like. Yes, such things do get ESO exposure, this is true... but the excitement is fleeting as people try to emulate their heroes. Leveling the playing field and making it accessible to the casual/semi-casual majority of the game will ensure a much longer lifespan for PVP content going forward as people will be less likely to feel stonewalled, helpless, or excluded.
When more people can access and play the game's content comfortably, then the game will feel more whole and less sundered like it has been for so long.

--If this is indeed kept (and I hope it is) I would like to see extra siege items added as drops from defeated foes... ayleid wells, quests, loot, anchors... basically everything cyrodiil has had up to this point... with the major difference being that all skills, equips, and potions stay as they are in Vengeance currently... by that I mean no foreign effects should be allowed in, and all loot stuffs collected while in pvp areas could be accessed after leaving.

you forget that every sweaty pvper was once a casual or new player. Not everyone always wants to stay on the easy path forever, and some people like creativity and challenge. Something like this removes every sense of creativity from pvp, and its not just sweaty players who like the freedom to play how they want. And i think you, and some others, are really underestimating how much casual players like the freedom to play different builds. Maybe a new player runs a more tanky build to learn, or the people who like to play tanks in pvp even though i cant understand it, or healers, or utility builds, or gankers (as bad as most of them are), or snipe builds, or whatever. Many of those people love the builds they play and are casual.

Many of you think you like this, and maybe you will for a little while. But boring is boring, and this will get boring very fast. Plus casual players already normally have the advantage in pvp because casual players normally get into massive zergs. The lag impacts you less, you always have the numbers and healing. And if you mean a casual player brand new to pvp trying to learn by themselves then either way its the wrong environment. And if they're not by themselves then see my previous point.

I just think given enough time many people will realize this is not the right choice for cyrodiil. Unfortunately zos will use the feedback from a week, but it could be fun for a week or two but eventually it will get very boring. There are so many problems with something like this if zos replaces cyrodiil with it. Maybe not so much if its just another campaign, but then the problem will be when they declare pvp performance is fixed. And all of us who like cyrodiil the way it is, and just want it to perform how it should, will get nothing. And unfortunately thats what i think will most likely happen. If im wrong, and they keep trying to improve cyrodiil as it is, and performance, then fine. Thats great, another option for pvp, maybe even as a seasonal thing, but im just not convinced they wont give up on cyrodiil after.

Mall0ry · March 25

1. Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
Yes.

2. Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
On the first day, fps and ping were absolutely amazing, even in the middle of the horde - until i crashed.
On the second day, the fps were a nightmare. Got 12 fps and textures were gone. This was worse than GH, because usually when i get an fps drop like that, i still see the textures.

3. What you think of the simplified abilities?
On a DPS ok.
On a healer boring. And that is my main.

4. Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc?
Yes, i crashed. I just ran around in a keep full of people.

5. What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?
Absolutely not my cup of tea, it feels like a different game. Couldn't find proper smallscale fights, only zergs. That is not what i am looking for. But seems some people like it, so maybe add this campaign in addition to the normal ones?

6. Do you have any general feedback?
It is great the combat bug is gone. Kinda weird that you chase some guys and they mount in the middle of the hunt, but thats ok.

LadyGP · March 25

Lags wrote: »

Arcadere wrote: »

Balancing PVP and PVE seperately is always the right choice.
Additionally, casual players make up over 90% of the player-base, this is worth noting;
So, making PVP more accessible to everybody and not just sweats will also be more profitable in the long run than trying to appease meta-chasing PVP streamer bros and the like. Yes, such things do get ESO exposure, this is true... but the excitement is fleeting as people try to emulate their heroes. Leveling the playing field and making it accessible to the casual/semi-casual majority of the game will ensure a much longer lifespan for PVP content going forward as people will be less likely to feel stonewalled, helpless, or excluded.
When more people can access and play the game's content comfortably, then the game will feel more whole and less sundered like it has been for so long.

--If this is indeed kept (and I hope it is) I would like to see extra siege items added as drops from defeated foes... ayleid wells, quests, loot, anchors... basically everything cyrodiil has had up to this point... with the major difference being that all skills, equips, and potions stay as they are in Vengeance currently... by that I mean no foreign effects should be allowed in, and all loot stuffs collected while in pvp areas could be accessed after leaving.

you forget that every sweaty pvper was once a casual or new player. Not everyone always wants to stay on the easy path forever, and some people like creativity and challenge. Something like this removes every sense of creativity from pvp, and its not just sweaty players who like the freedom to play how they want. And i think you, and some others, are really underestimating how much casual players like the freedom to play different builds. Maybe a new player runs a more tanky build to learn, or the people who like to play tanks in pvp even though i cant understand it, or healers, or utility builds, or gankers (as bad as most of them are), or snipe builds, or whatever. Many of those people love the builds they play and are casual.

Many of you think you like this, and maybe you will for a little while. But boring is boring, and this will get boring very fast. Plus casual players already normally have the advantage in pvp because casual players normally get into massive zergs. The lag impacts you less, you always have the numbers and healing. And if you mean a casual player brand new to pvp trying to learn by themselves then either way its the wrong environment. And if they're not by themselves then see my previous point.

I just think given enough time many people will realize this is not the right choice for cyrodiil. Unfortunately zos will use the feedback from a week, but it could be fun for a week or two but eventually it will get very boring. There are so many problems with something like this if zos replaces cyrodiil with it. Maybe not so much if its just another campaign, but then the problem will be when they declare pvp performance is fixed. And all of us who like cyrodiil the way it is, and just want it to perform how it should, will get nothing. And unfortunately thats what i think will most likely happen. If im wrong, and they keep trying to improve cyrodiil as it is, and performance, then fine. Thats great, another option for pvp, maybe even as a seasonal thing, but im just not convinced they wont give up on cyrodiil after.

I hear you and IF it stayed like this - yes it would be boring.

But... they literally did a stream with Brian, Rich, Gina, and they said over and over and over and over that this will not be what cyro becomes. I don't think we have to worry about this.

Honestly, what I think will happen is they will just make a pvp version of skills utilizing battlespirit and instead of things like vigor hitting the whole group (or whatever the max is) it will be like 3 members now. Basically taking skills that can hit a ton of players and dropping it down to 3 or so. You may have to cast more.. but it cuts the calculations to the server in "bursts" down by a lot.

The skills that have to do a check.. see who is effected by xyz, and then they get hit with abc based on that xyz... yeah those kind of checks are what will get axed from pvp (this will impact ball groups FWIW).

ZOS_Kevin · March 25

Hey folks, as a reminder, this thread is meant for general feedback about your experience for the ongoing Vengeance test. It makes it easier for our teams to review the feedback when we stick to the thread topic. If you are having on-going discussions outside of the scope of feedback, (i.e. what is the point of the test or discussion if vengeance should be the future of Cyrodiil), please start a new thread and continue the conversation there.

And again, this is only a test. We are looking to see how everything is running without a ton of calculations happening. And based on our finds and your feedback, will go from there.

freespirit · March 25

Had a blast!

1. Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
Yes.

2. Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
The battles were huge and pretty fluid for me personally, there was a lot of complaining in chat about lag and fps drops though.

3. What you think of the simplified abilities?
I took my warden and quite liked her abilities

4. Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc?
No crashes or any negative effects.

5. What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?
My immediate thoughts were "Omg it's like it used to be!!" I spent many hours in Cyrodiil, late 2014 and pretty much all of 2015. I think a campaign with similar limitations would likely be popular, I would like weapon skill lines too though.

6. Do you have any general feedback?
I think this is a great place to start to try and rebuild PVP in Cyrodiil, many people will find it too simplified but if we look back to launch everything was simpler back then.
It always strikes me how passionate our PVP-ers are, also look at the demand in the last two days, PVP that worked would be absolutely enormous for ESO!!

The_Meathead · March 25

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?

--Yes

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?

--Responsive, yes. Fun, a bit at times yes though I quickly got bored.

What you think of the simplified abilities?

--loathe, the whole point of an mmo is to level up and have choices in how you play.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc?

--I didn't suffer any crashes or lag really so I cannot say, only lag I felt was when trying to open doors.

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?

--Here's the meat and potatoes of my response and here's where I want you to really see and take to heart what I say, @zenimax
I do know that this is just a test... So there's no guarantee or likelihood y'all would actually go through with making pvp even remotely like this. And yet on the slight chance that you do, I gotta say, as someone that knows the pvp side of the game more than you do, this will be the death of eso if you actually implement this.

This will not bring in more players, pvers are only happy right now because they dont have to worry about making a build and can just zerg. Blackreach pvpers who zerg down empty keeps, etc, they are already locked in. People won't return to eso for less complexity, neither will fans from other games, your competitors, stick around long enough to buy crown crates when this is the end game content.

The sole reason people played eso and stayed here for years is because of the complexity of the pvp which like the numbers in steam of active players, has been declining year after year.

The only positive takeaways from this test is something fans have been telling you forever... Get. Rid. Of. Heal. Stacking. Cut down overhealing. You wanna know the real reason for the most serious laggy sessions of your game, its the ballgroups. You have to cut down their ability to run around in keeps or on the field spamming the same abilities again and again unkillable. Nuke heal stacking and you can keep the game fun, and cut down lag.

The other aspect of the test that is evident is people like being able to kill and be killed. Bring back the damage meta. People are okay with getting killed, and being able to kill. They're not okay with everyone feeling immortal unless there's numbers, or a ball group running around, which again comes back to nerfing heal stacking and heals in general really.

Don't take the false positives from the test as "we need to get rid of sets and complex skills". No, you just gotta do what I stated above.

Do you have any general feedback?

--TLDR, the vengeance campaign shows that eso players can have fun without an abundance of healing in the game, let that be your one and only takeaway from this, ZOS or you'll kill what remains of your fanbase in favor of another that won't stick around.

Perfectly stated, Bardok.

All this, x2.

Please DON'T take the success in latency reduction to mean that sets and builds need to be removed. I'd be out the door the day that was announced.

Please DO look very very hard at heal/shield-stacking as a place to trim server strain as well as a gameplay mechanic that's been looooong overdo for a reduction, for years.

Thanks for doing this test, it's a fun distraction for a week but not what PvP should look like and I think/hope you guys are aware of that. Please use it for good decisions that embrace the best of what your game is about, and don't try to appeal to those who say things like, 'This might actually get me to PVP!" From years and years of MMO PVP experience, I can say with 100% certainty and honesty that anyone uttering that sentence will never actually become a regular PvPer.

rey2576 · March 25

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
No because I didn't bother. The fact that the skills, the hotbar abilities, that my entire playstyle revolves around were taken away from me and killed any desire I had to play the content I played the most.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
I didn't engage in any.

What you think of the simplified abilities?
I thought they were a really bad idea and was extremely displeased with them. Taking away the abilities my entire playstyle revolves around put a bad taste in my mouth for the vengeance mode. Perhaps I am being harsh, but I feel ESO needs bad content to be treated harshly for its sake.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc?
No. I didn't get in any combat and wasn't around long enough for connection issues or lag to show.

What happened to trigger the corruption (leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, etc)?
N/A

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?
I thought it was a terrible idea and am extremely displeased with it. The language appropriate for forums are insufficient to more accurately express my thoughts on it.

Do you have any general feedback?
Don't simplify the abilities or disable CP, sets, vamp/werewolf skills, and mundus stones. Players being able to make their own unique playstyles and builds is part of what is great about this game. Do not let a single idea for the game's development come from Vengeance mode. If you're really set on this mode, make it a separate campaign from the others.

YandereGirlfriend · March 25

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?: Yes, and it was pretty neat indeed seeing like 100 vs. 100 vs. 100. That said, it took longer than expected to find an actual fight as by the time that I logged in the three faction-stacks were basically just PvDooring at different parts of the map and avoiding each other.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?: Yes, heaps better. It was very nice to not have ability lag. Abilities were responsive but the actual moment-to-moment gameplay is not particularly engaging with the template format. As an individual player, what you do does not matter at all to what happens in a fight. And that feels pretty bad.

What you think of the simplified abilities?: Not a huge fan. I generally agree with the principle that current skills are over-designed and bloated but I would not PvP long-term if this is how skills were going to be redesigned. The worst offender is the target cap on damage abilities, which feels absolutely awful. It makes fighting outnumbered literally impossible and enforces the low-level zerging combat that Vengeance is becoming known for. There should never be a target cap on offensive abilities.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? If you encounter character corruption, please provide the following feedback when using /bug in-game: Fortunately, I did not encounter any bugs of this nature and my character appears to be normal upon exiting.

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?: That on a technical level this is very interesting and that I am glad that it is happening. But I am also glad that it is only lasting for one week because after 30 minutes I was already bored of the simplified template combat and zerg vs. zerg vs. zerg playstyle.

Do you have any general feedback?: Please give a raise and promotion to the person(s) who fixed the "Stuck In Combat" bug. They genuinely deserve it. If ESO had one like marquee epic fail that was clowned on by the entire community then THAT BUG was it. And now it appears to be gone. So legitimate congratulations!

Otherwise, just banging the drum that the current gameplay is not entertaining and it, or anything similar to it, cannot be forced upon all of the campaigns without bleeding most of the current PvP player base. It is interesting as a tech demo and experiment but the gameplay feels dumbed-down, slow, and already very stale.

MafiaCat115 · March 25

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles? Yes
Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)? It was a major improvement on regular Cyrodiil
What you think of the simplified abilities? I liked them well enough, but I will look forward to having more than just class abilities. Would also be nice if speed increasing passives, even if just for mounts, were still applied.
Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? If you encounter character corruption, please provide the following feedback when using /bug in-game.No
What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)? The lack of ball groups and less lag makes this much more enjoyable than normal Cyrodiil.
Do you have any general feedback? This is a good starting point, and I hope this testing will lead to less lag overall, and potentially higher pop caps as a result of the extra breathing room on the servers. I also liked the way siege was handled in the test. It made it so people were much more willing to use siege weaponry in attacks and defense.

Khallarion · March 25

Large-scale battles were bigger than usual, due population increase, which contributed to performance issues.
Performance issues though weren't that bad to the point of preventing a relatively smooth gameplay.
I also didn't get disconnected from the server, despite the amount of active player in the battle or campaign.

The battles indeed feel better latency-wise, even though combat feels similar, especially closer to high density areas.
Depending on the number of players, skills won't register or properly trigger, leading to inconsistencies in battles.
This issue was always present, being minimized through VPN, but not absolutely removed.

The simplified abilities seem better than expected, alongside the equalized character status.
This removes the ability to customize gear and skills, which is a setback taking in consideration the previous expansion.
At least it's possible to engage in a fairer combat, more focused on ability rather gear.

The game feels simplified, but the core essence is still present, surprisingly being more fun.
Equalized characters and class abilities might open up different opportunities of gameplay,
such as in battlegrounds or competitive play which uses ranking system and ELO.

NoSoup · March 25

So want to start by saying I'm an Oceanic player (Bris/AU) with a latency that generally ranges from 220 - 280. In the VR (Vetran Rank) days I could usually participate in Cyrodil battles upto about 100 players before the server responce times would become too big of a problem. Since One Tamriel it's probably been limited to 50 - 70 players before it becomes completely unplayable.

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
Yes, the largest battle I was in had well over 100 players involved.
Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
Absolutely! Over the course of 3 hours and multiple very large fights I had one instance where my ultimate didn't fire, apart from that all skills were responsive, roll dodge and break free were responsive. Some of the battles I was involved in would have been simply impossible encounters during previous times. As an Australian player these were the largest battles I've ever been able to participate in, normally with these many players the Keeps wouldn't even come in sight before being disconnected.

What you think of the simplified abilities?
While it certainly dumbs down game play and makes it more of a "numbers" game in determining battle outcomes, I still need to play more to give a fair assessment. At this stage I would probably support it if it leads to higher continuous populations and performance.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? If you encounter character corruption, please provide the following feedback when using /bug in-game.
None whatsoever.

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?
Initial thoughts, I really enjoyed it. At a minimum I feel there is defintely room for this to become a regular occurance (something like BG weekends).

Minghash · March 25

PC-EU around 23:00.

Misfirering of abilities started to occur while defending Sejanus Outpost against big red wave.

- Key press did register, effect on staff tip was there but no lightning followed.
- Oil on stairs did splash but no damage registered on enemy below.

Regards,
Minghash

xylena_lazarow · March 26

Jaimeh wrote: »

The skybox was really tiring on the eyes, even the inside of keeps had this hazy, dimmed lighting, and after a while I had to log out to rest my eyes.

I also experienced this, the sky is very pretty, but the lighting was weirdly stressful on my vision.

Lags · March 26

LadyGP wrote: »

Lags wrote: »

Arcadere wrote: »

Balancing PVP and PVE seperately is always the right choice.
Additionally, casual players make up over 90% of the player-base, this is worth noting;
So, making PVP more accessible to everybody and not just sweats will also be more profitable in the long run than trying to appease meta-chasing PVP streamer bros and the like. Yes, such things do get ESO exposure, this is true... but the excitement is fleeting as people try to emulate their heroes. Leveling the playing field and making it accessible to the casual/semi-casual majority of the game will ensure a much longer lifespan for PVP content going forward as people will be less likely to feel stonewalled, helpless, or excluded.
When more people can access and play the game's content comfortably, then the game will feel more whole and less sundered like it has been for so long.

--If this is indeed kept (and I hope it is) I would like to see extra siege items added as drops from defeated foes... ayleid wells, quests, loot, anchors... basically everything cyrodiil has had up to this point... with the major difference being that all skills, equips, and potions stay as they are in Vengeance currently... by that I mean no foreign effects should be allowed in, and all loot stuffs collected while in pvp areas could be accessed after leaving.

you forget that every sweaty pvper was once a casual or new player. Not everyone always wants to stay on the easy path forever, and some people like creativity and challenge. Something like this removes every sense of creativity from pvp, and its not just sweaty players who like the freedom to play how they want. And i think you, and some others, are really underestimating how much casual players like the freedom to play different builds. Maybe a new player runs a more tanky build to learn, or the people who like to play tanks in pvp even though i cant understand it, or healers, or utility builds, or gankers (as bad as most of them are), or snipe builds, or whatever. Many of those people love the builds they play and are casual.

Many of you think you like this, and maybe you will for a little while. But boring is boring, and this will get boring very fast. Plus casual players already normally have the advantage in pvp because casual players normally get into massive zergs. The lag impacts you less, you always have the numbers and healing. And if you mean a casual player brand new to pvp trying to learn by themselves then either way its the wrong environment. And if they're not by themselves then see my previous point.

I just think given enough time many people will realize this is not the right choice for cyrodiil. Unfortunately zos will use the feedback from a week, but it could be fun for a week or two but eventually it will get very boring. There are so many problems with something like this if zos replaces cyrodiil with it. Maybe not so much if its just another campaign, but then the problem will be when they declare pvp performance is fixed. And all of us who like cyrodiil the way it is, and just want it to perform how it should, will get nothing. And unfortunately thats what i think will most likely happen. If im wrong, and they keep trying to improve cyrodiil as it is, and performance, then fine. Thats great, another option for pvp, maybe even as a seasonal thing, but im just not convinced they wont give up on cyrodiil after.

I hear you and IF it stayed like this - yes it would be boring.

But... they literally did a stream with Brian, Rich, Gina, and they said over and over and over and over that this will not be what cyro becomes. I don't think we have to worry about this.

Honestly, what I think will happen is they will just make a pvp version of skills utilizing battlespirit and instead of things like vigor hitting the whole group (or whatever the max is) it will be like 3 members now. Basically taking skills that can hit a ton of players and dropping it down to 3 or so. You may have to cast more.. but it cuts the calculations to the server in "bursts" down by a lot.

The skills that have to do a check.. see who is effected by xyz, and then they get hit with abc based on that xyz... yeah those kind of checks are what will get axed from pvp (this will impact ball groups FWIW).

ya you may be right. I dont really think something like this will replace cyrodiil either. They would be absolutely insane to do that this late in the game. Like i said though, i am just worried they add in something like this, as another option, and then wash their hands of performance. So ya, lets hope they can actually make some reasonable adjustments to the cyrodiil we currently have. Thats all we all want, is for balance and performance to improve. Its just hard to have faith after so long.

And I would like to post some legitimate feedback in this comment as well. It is crazy to me that there is still lag in this campaign. Many people may not notice it since many things get missed in these massive zerg fights, but when you are paying close attention the ability delay still happens frequently. Nowhere near as bad as before, or often, but its happening. A bar swap that never happened, missed skills, etc. Its crazy to think that even with it being this bare bones the skill delay still makes it through. I would expect fps issues more with so many people but its not that. It seems like skill delay is just ingrained into cyrodiil.

Romilly · March 26

Positives, less combat bug preventing mounting.

Negatives, lag still impacting skill cast registration, rubber banding, and now crashing to desktop as an AD ball group showed up. STRONGLY SUGGEST YOU FORCIBLY DISABLE ALL ADDON INTER-PROCESS COMMUNICATION for this campaign.

SpiritKitten · March 26

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
Yes, very smooth running around with a massive crowd running all over and that was fun pvp, except for constant loading screens.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
The large-scale was better when it worked, but I got loading screens and stuck running in place, and that happened a lot. My skills would not fire sometimes, especially the healing potion! I died a lot because of this. It happened way too often and no, that was not fun. Also, the siege limit was frustrating. If I arrived seconds too late then I just stood around waiting for the flag to flip. I had nothing to do! And whichever faction had the larger zerg won. This is because there was no build diversity.

What you think of the simplified abilities?
All I could do on my sorc was heavy attack and use crystal frags, over and over that's it. The rest of the time I was desperately trying to self-heal. It felt good to be able to kill people because they weren't unkillable tanks, but also after a while it was boring. I felt the simplified abilities were too weak. And it sucked to be a healer without radiating regen. Ran out of magicka. Pointless to even play as a healer, really. Dps class was better but the self-heals were terrible. Customizing builds and morphs is half the fun of playing a game like this. Removing that was just a bad feeling for me. I play RPGs for customization. And to experiment.

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?
It was mostly fun for simply having some holiday event MMO feel, but I am already done with it. If you brought it back as a permanent campaign, I wouldn't play it.

Do you have any general feedback?
I left my feedback in the official discussion thread.

hafjoldr · March 26

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
Yes, and they were considerably larger than before.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
I have had about lag spikes across two days of playing a few hours each. Overall this is a huge improvement over what it was in normal campaigns.

What you think of the simplified abilities?
I think they take away variety, but at the same time the template system has proven far more balanced than before, in my opinion.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? If you encounter character corruption, please provide the following feedback when using /bug in-game.
It has not happened to me.

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?
While I do think some improvements can be made, I really like it compared to before.

Do you have any general feedback?
Yes. I'd like weapon skills to be added back in next test, as some classes feel incomplete without them.

Sherush · March 26

I played in there for the last 2 days totalling about 12 hours with 3 classes. Only a few lag points but surprised sometimes with 300 plus people fighting mostly flowed most of the time. Love the simplified gear and that everyone had same stats and for any level. Love no bombers. Waterdown skills not a fan of. Today the Q was better but some still waited 45 minutes tonight. I also love the bottomless siege weapons and tri pots which prompted more people to lay siege and fix walls and doors and wonderful didn’t have to pick it back up.

argonian37 · March 26

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?

Yes, I was in two amazing battles with hundreds of players

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?

In responsiveness and functionality, the improvement is 10/10. In having fun, its great to have amazing epic battles at every moment, but after some time, start to feels repetitive.

What you think of the simplified abilities?

As a NB, I found some of them functional, would like to see some variety and morphs tho

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc?

No, but lag become worse on day 2 of the campaign

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?

I know that this is a test. Would have been better to have more mounting speed and a little less hp. The sky color is great, but shouldn’t be permanent. Could be in some times of the day or zones of the map.

Do you have any general feedback?

Im thankful that you are trying to improve and fix cyro after all these years. And this is a good first step.
You have a difficult path, very challenging from now: how to retain the enthusiasm of lots of new and old players that are enjoying this campaign (the performance is much better and the learning curve is much shorter now) and still keep the build system that makes that some passionate players think about this game even when they are not logged. Integrating in the same battlefields these two different types of players is a massive design challenge and i’m eager to know the next step.

Good things

- no rush of agony stupid pulls
- no ball groups ruining the whole experience and crashing the server
- no stuck in combat bug
- massive and chaotic battles, feels like a proper war. In some battles i just admired the sight of the huge battle and it was like a Candido Lopez painting (argentine XIX century painter that painted huge chaotic battlefields)
- no broken sets neither skills, is like an everyone is ubernerfed parallel reality
- much more inclusive for new and casual players
- no ultra broken godmode builds that have amazing burst damage

Bad things

-general speed of running and combat
-after a while becomes repetitive
-aoe dmg caps, the point of aoes is to attack numerous enemies at once
-needs MUCH more diversity and options
-no playstyle options apart from join a zerg and avoid being zerged.
-not objectives
-the reward system should have been more generous… like an exclusive mount, a personality or at least a “vengeance campaign veteran” title or something more than just AP.

Tranquilizer · March 26

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?

Yes, had multiple large scale battles, open fields as well as attackers or defenders of keeps.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?

Battles felt fluid, character was responsive the whole time, experienced some small stutters, but this could also be my 10 year old rig. Had a lot of fun.

What you think of the simplified abilities?

I like them, this is what we need to balance pve and pvp separately. Could be more fleshed out, but generally you're on a good way. (Yes, I know, class balance was not part of the test

)

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc?

No problems for me, no kick, no disconnect. Flawless port into Cyrodiil and back.

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?

I like the character templates with fixed values for armor and weapon/spell damage. This leads to an even playfield for everybody, regardles if you're a newbie or a veteran. Purely skill based, as pvp should be.

Do you have any general feedback?

I really like the vengeance campaign. Purely skill based, no carry-sets, no unkillable tanks, no ballgroups, no lag. As I said, I also like the pvp armor templates, but maybe you can give players some choices, i.e. for a pure damage build raise the weapon/spell power but lower the armor, for a healer build lower armor and weapon/spell power but raise healing done and so forth. This has the potential to bring pvp back to the game.

Stamicka · March 26

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?

Yes there were several huge battles across the map and the server performance was nearly flawless even when I was right next to the battle. I experienced some FPS drops as expected, but the game was still very playable and I never dropped below about 45 FPS.

What you think of the simplified abilities?

I think that the classes right now are wildly unbalanced. I've been on Nightblade and it seems overtuned still. I kind of like the simplified skills, but I'd still like to see more added. I also miss passives and some multi function skills like the heal on soul tether. I'm also not a huge fan of the fact that AOEs can only hit a fixed number of people.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? If you encounter character corruption, please provide the following feedback when using /bug in-game.

No this hasn't happened.

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?

I'm having a ton of fun with Vengeance. It's so nice not being melted by status effects, procs, and other free damage. I also love not being pulled by Rush of Agony or running into unkillable tanks. One gripe I've always had with ESO is how much you can outbuild someone else to the point where skill is secondary. Of course there's none of that in Vengeance.

I think a lot of players love making ESO builds, so I don't think that should be taken away from them completely. However, I think Cyrodiil would benefit greatly from a limited set space where all sets give pure stats with no proc conditions. These sets would all need to be balanced with each other. There's actually a lot of variations that can be made with pure stat builds, but that's a discussion for another post.

I also love seeing Cyrodiil so lively. I haven't seen anything like this in a decade. There's fights almost everywhere and there seems to be all types of players that joined. It was also great having zero server lag despite the massive groups.

Do you have any general feedback?

I played exclusively solo, so sometimes I would have trouble finding a small group to fight rather than a 50 man. I think that Cyrodiil may need more scattered objectives to lessen the faction stacking. Other than that solo PvP was very viable and fun. It was much more enjoyable for me than normal Cyrodiil.

I don't think Vengeance should ever be a permanent thing as is, but there's lots of good ideas there. I definitely think all of the procs, server checks, cross healing, and buff stacking needs to be addressed in Non-Vengeance Cyrodiil..

I think another takeaway from this test is that you guys should put in a mythic item that can be easily obtained as soon as someone enters Cyrodiil. This mythic should disable traits, gear bonuses, etc. and just give the player decent PvP stats. It doesn’t have to be best in slot, but it should allow a player to have a viable PvP build just by slotting one item. Torc of the Last Ayleid King misses the mark and it’s hard to get, but the idea behind that mythic is great. I loved logging into any character and not having to worry about putting together a build or anything. I could just choose the weapons I wanted to use and I was good to go. I’m almost sure that this boosted participation for the test. So if anything changes after this event, players should have the option to easily access some sort of default viable PvP build with predetermined stats.

Overall it's been a positive experience for me. Good performance, lots of fights on the map, and no cheese. I think that builds need to be apart of Cyrodiil, but it shouldn't be possible to blatantly outbuild somebody like you currently can.

Arrow312 · March 26

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?

Yes, had a few large scale battles, open fields as well as attackers or defenders of keeps.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?

felt more static and not funny for me.

What you think of the simplified abilities?

No i dont like them. Personal i found my playstyle and skills over the years and now i got a pre template of skills and chraracter sheet.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc?

No problems for me, no kick, no disconnect. Flawless port into Cyrodiil and back.

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?

Yesterday was my first and last entrance to this. I dont like the whole style where most of the time it is a number game. If this will be the future i quit the game. Im not interested in 30 min to hour keep fights.

Do you have any general feedback?

Check Rush of Agony and other sets which provides buffs in PvP which was created for trial grps. Reduce the free damage and healing Proc sets. And never think about to bring the Vengence camp as regular Cyrodiil PvP.

Wald1na · March 26

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
Yes, multiple large scale battles. Attacking keeps, defending keeps or pitch battles between keeps and outposts

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
Very responsive. Almost no lag at all. Good frame rates even with hundreds of players at the location. Overall I like it. Last 2 days have geen great fun. Probably the most fun outside of midyear mayhem.

What you think of the simplified abilities?
Actually OK given the limitations. My magsorc setup was recognisable and very playable. Only played sorc so far. I'll try DK, Arcanist and Templar next.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? If you encounter character corruption, please provide the following feedback when using /bug in-game.

N/A
Only odd thing I noticed was some people have their guild tabards showing while others do not but I wouldn't consider it a corruption as the guild name returns when you leave Cyro. Not sure what was the intention here to remove all guild tags while in Cyro or not?

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?

Good points:
+ Good performance
+ Class identity comes back since only class skills work
+ No stuck in combat bug
+ No rush of agony or other proc sets
+ Limits comp group effectiveness
+ No siege stealing

Bad points:
- A sheer numbers game - the larger zerg wins
- No siege shields or purge makes ramming suicidal due to buring oil
- Slow mount speed
- No build diversity
- No campaign objectives to play for - just a mass brawl

Do you have any general feedback?
I appreciate this is just a test and I really hope this gives ZoS the data they are looking for.

Kamchuk · March 26

I was on in the afternoon on the 25th and I noticed some lag. I don't know if ZOS made any changes to the Campaign, but the lag was there. Specifically, the "revolving door" trick where I tried to enter the keep through the IFD, hit the key and nothing happened. Hit the key again and nothing happened. Hit the key a third time and briefly was inside then immediately back out to face about 50 DC players with big smiles on their faces. (I don't remember anything after that...

)

There were a few instances where it appeared that my skills weren't firing on time also. That may have been my targeting during the heat of battle, but I can't be sure. There were about 300+ people around Fare in a massive free-for-all fight. It might be worth checking the logs and data.

Second day overall was exceptional. This new environment definitely makes you think about how to implement new battle strategies to cope with HUGE numbers of enemy players attacking a single objective. That's if this population increase makes it back to the Live Campaign...

Arboz · March 26

I dont like it at all, but I know that others do, so… just let both forms of Cyrodiil coexist.
What I dont like is that it feels disconnected from me, from my playstyle, its another character that I am playing and thus is a Mini Game within the whole game.
And I dont like Mini Games, certainly not as a main option for such a huge feature as it concerns Cyrodiil.

Mayrael · March 26

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?

Yes

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?

Responsive? Yes.
Fun. Not at all.

What you think of the simplified abilities?

To simple, unbalanced as hell, no build freedom, kills ESO spirit, kills RPG elements, kills fun, kills MMO aspect.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc?

No.

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?

As I predicted, ZOS, under the guise of performance testing, is probing whether they could solve the performance issues in Cyrodiil by building it from the ground up using the simplest possible rules. They want to see how players will respond to it. And you know what? I'm afraid that in a game dominated by casual players who play for three months and then quit, ZOS will listen to them because they are the majority. This mode is the absolute worst of ESO, it's worse than level scaling, which ruined the fun of PvE. We didn’t farm dungeons and trials hundreds of times, do quests for skill points, chase after every corner of the map for skyshards, or grind through long and tedious quest lines just to not be able to benefit from it now.

Do you have any general feedback?

This was supposed to be "just a test," but as I can see, the narrative is already shifting towards "how can we push this onto the players." I knew this would happen, but still, I feel deceived.

sans-culottes · March 26

Mayrael wrote: »

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?

Yes

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?

Responsive? Yes.
Fun. Not at all.

What you think of the simplified abilities?

To simple, unbalanced as hell, no build freedom, kills ESO spirit, kills RPG elements, kills fun, kills MMO aspect.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc?

No.

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?

As I predicted, ZOS, under the guise of performance testing, is probing whether they could solve the performance issues in Cyrodiil by building it from the ground up using the simplest possible rules. They want to see how players will respond to it. And you know what? I'm afraid that in a game dominated by casual players who play for three months and then quit, ZOS will listen to them because they are the majority. This mode is the absolute worst of ESO, it's worse than level scaling, which ruined the fun of PvE. We didn’t farm dungeons and trials hundreds of times, do quests for skill points, chase after every corner of the map for skyshards, or grind through long and tedious quest lines just to not be able to benefit from it now.

Do you have any general feedback?

This was supposed to be "just a test," but as I can see, the narrative is already shifting towards "how can we push this onto the players." I knew this would happen, but still, I feel deceived.

Why do you feel “deceived”? This isn’t permanent, nor is it replacing the other Cyrodiil instances.

colossalvoids · March 26

- Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?

Yes, fully swarmed ones. But performance on 2070super/ryz5 3600 (pceu) wasn't amazing compared to regular live campaigns both CP and not.

- Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?

Latency wise it was also a mixed bag, it feels better overall with average latency dropping to 80s instead of sitting at 100-110 average, but said sieges dropped both frames and spiked latency, making actions quite unresponsive. Overall abilities ranges without passives and speed felt very off and borderline not fun.

- What you think of the simplified abilities?

Mixed bag, some classes have full package with half the space wasted while others don't have enough slots for basic necessities to manoeuvre. Concept is fine but that's too underdeveloped to have any actual comments on.

- Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc?

Nope, not yet.

- What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?

Fun thing for an hour or two, getting boring pretty quickly as your agency isn't that big overall, definitely a breath of fresh air having no ball groups around, no tanks and gankers, people do able to stand on flags and mount up just as the combat ends.

- Do you have any general feedback?

Whatever was done to stuck in combat should be ported over as soon as possible. Consider limiting cross healing for less balling potential.

Kinmont · March 26

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?

Yes - almost all the battles were large scale

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?

While my DK skills seem more effective than usual, and overall I had no issues with latency (but I have not had that for a while anyway), the combat is utterly joyless.

While a number of players seem to be elated by this, at most points, there was nothing to do - over siege limit is almost constant, and with people randomly setting sieges down on various points on keeps, it has been ineffective. At other times, most players seems to be standing around doing little while the siege is underway - and you are getting AP for literally turning up.

What you think of the simplified abilities?

While a couple of the skills are effective (DK more than Templar), the fact that all classes are pretty much using the same skills, there's little sense of enjoyment or agency with the character. The reduction of buffs /heals to 3 people - and having them go on to people not in your group is frustrating.

I know this is a test but I feel the 'Play Like You Want' element which is vaunted by ESO and is an very important reason for many people to choose to play the game, has been entirely removed - so in that case, I am very much looking forward to next week again.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? If you encounter character corruption, please provide the following feedback when using /bug in-game.

This happened once, after being in for 3 hours: connection was lost. The rest of the time it's been fine, but overall it usually ok anyway.

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?

As a week-long test, I chose to take part in it, and my guild have been taking part - however, it is, as I have said, utterly and completely joyless when in solo - nothing to do during sieges at times, hard to target a specific enemy, randomly directing attacks into a mass and getting kills is not engaging, and the number of players in a mass utterly outweighing any skills 99 time out of 100 - this is not what I play pvp for. It's only tolerable when in voice with a group when the nonsense of 50+ zergs piling on to each other, no focused sieging, and people forgetting that the skills are currently modified can be observed together - but that's on the company we all keep, not the enjoyment of the game.

I enjoy the development of skills and options within our guild group - we can enhance our efficiency and learn different ways to play and let everyone play to their best ability - this has been very much reduced this week. Several people have stated that they would leave the game entirely if pvp was simplified as it has been in this test, which should be a clarion call to the devs. Imagine if prog trials groups were told they could only have X skills and Y gear, even though there are 100s of permutations offered within the game - the outcry would be immense.

I don't think the 'get rid of ballgroups' mantra is even relevant here - my group's been accused of being a ballgroup when we're not - and several of the ballgroups are not even taking part - though any coordinated group can still get plenty kills among the hordes. People have to be able to choose how they play - so we need the freedom of skills and builds - even if we don't always appreciate how other players utilise it.

However, permanent play like this would be the death of pvp - those who are in the game for pvp will leave (ESO, not Cyrodiil) and the pve players -and I think it's a lot of them who are yelling 'this is great!' in zone atm will not replace them. Similarly, there are more of us who want to actively pvp with choice than those who creep in to pvdoor keeps, or who look for quiet campaigns (RW in EU atm during my guild's active hours - we usually run in BR evenings). I've been in the game since beta and have seen a fair few changes to pvp as a result - but this test is pretty demoralising overall: I don't like 'lowest common denominator' options, and it feels like more of that.

Do you have any general feedback?

What I really do like this week is being able (if it's not over siege limit) to claim back your siege from players who jump on to it when you come off to heal. In regular pvp, it's the bane of many players - find a way to be able to reclaim it from siege thieves in normal pvp.

Not sure the Golden Pursuits is a fair trade-off - pvpers are getting them done within a couple of hours and it isnt really a reward of any kind - it may be an incentive for pve players to jump into the chaos though.

Mayrael · March 26

sans-culottes wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?

Yes

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?

Responsive? Yes.
Fun. Not at all.

What you think of the simplified abilities?

To simple, unbalanced as hell, no build freedom, kills ESO spirit, kills RPG elements, kills fun, kills MMO aspect.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc?

No.

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?

As I predicted, ZOS, under the guise of performance testing, is probing whether they could solve the performance issues in Cyrodiil by building it from the ground up using the simplest possible rules. They want to see how players will respond to it. And you know what? I'm afraid that in a game dominated by casual players who play for three months and then quit, ZOS will listen to them because they are the majority. This mode is the absolute worst of ESO, it's worse than level scaling, which ruined the fun of PvE. We didn’t farm dungeons and trials hundreds of times, do quests for skill points, chase after every corner of the map for skyshards, or grind through long and tedious quest lines just to not be able to benefit from it now.

Do you have any general feedback?

This was supposed to be "just a test," but as I can see, the narrative is already shifting towards "how can we push this onto the players." I knew this would happen, but still, I feel deceived.

Why do you feel “deceived”? This isn’t permanent, nor is it replacing the other Cyrodiil instances.

For now it isn't permanent, but ask your self. Why they are asking about simplified abilities, why ask about how "fun" Cyrodiil is now? Why all that feedback? It's because they want to know how far they can push with those changes. They've put to much work into preparing this "test". If they want to test, they've should just test the thing they want, gather the data and use results, they shouldn't gather feedback but data.