Official Discussion Thread for "Cyrodiil Champions Live Test"

ZOS_Kevin · March 24

This is the official discussion thread for, "To Arms! Help Us Collect Vital Data by Battling Your Fellow Players in Cyrodiil"

"Join the new Vengeance Alliance War campaign and help us test changes and collect data that could inform future improvements to the game."

LarsS · March 24

Campaign already has a long queue, so please increase the pop limit!

React · March 24

Ah, this thread went live before my previous comment in another thread.

Would have been nice to have some real incentives to motivate people to participate in this test. I don't understand why things like race changes, alliance changes, crowns, or crown crates wouldn't be considered as incentives for something of this nature. The AP and telvar incentives within this article are pretty unimpressive, and hold little value to most PVP players.

xylena_lazarow · March 24

First impressions: reworked DK skills are surprisingly pretty fluid, intuitive, and responsive. Smallscale combat at resources feels decent, I can still use mobility to my advantage to an extent, and DK functions like it should.

Large scale zerg combat really sucks without defensive siege to even the odds against the bigger zerg. The slower pace feels surprisingly good in smallscale, but sucks in large scale when you're flat too slow to separate from zergs.

Mount speed should not have been messed with, slow mounts aren't fixing the performance, that should be left at the maximum it is on live. Nobody here wants to play horse simulator. Do they?

Dagoth_Rac · March 24

If we have the Assault/Support lines unlocked, will the skill line itself advance after we leave Vengeance? I don't mean the actual individual skills like Vigor since, of course, we can't slot them in Vengeance. I mean the skill lines themselves. Like if I am Level 3 Assault, can I use the 100% AP buff to get to Level 6 Assault faster and unlock Caltrops outside of Vengeance?

MehrunesRazor · March 24

First thing is, i didn't know this event or test even existed before today. Probably the best constructive crit i will have for you today. Please take it into consideration, because I think there should have been some advance warning or, maybe announcement ingame.

Second, i was just accidentally in cyro to get my sorc a completionist task over with and it was a bridge to far for me to even return to cyro after i found out i cant switch my dark deal to give me back stam, i dont even main my sorc anymore but i cant be asked to try to figure out a reverse build to accomodate vengence,

Third, i literally dont have the energy to even look farther than one and two, please consider both and i hope the event is over so i can go back to cyro with my actual sorc jus to get my item and leave plx and thx

ZOS_Kevin · March 24

MehrunesRazor wrote: »

First thing is, i didn't know this event or test even existed before today. Probably the best constructive crit i will have for you today. Please take it into consideration, because I think there should have been some advance warning or, maybe announcement ingame.

Second, i was just accidentally in cyro to get my sorc a completionist task over with and it was a bridge to far for me to even return to cyro after i found out i cant switch my dark deal to give me back stam, i dont even main my sorc anymore but i cant be asked to try to figure out a reverse build to accomodate vengence,

Third, i literally dont have the energy to even look farther than one and two, please consider both and i hope the event is over so i can go back to cyro with my actual sorc jus to get my item and leave plx and thx

Thanks for the feedback. We will share with the team the mention of an in-game announcement. Just to note, we have been talking about this test since January. And we announce the dates at the beginning of March. You can always check on update to date info on our website.

Here is our FAQ (partly based on our earlier Q&A in Feb.) talking about what to expect and the goals of the test: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/674932

method__01 · March 24

tbh this is worst than pts some weeks before ,sry cant play like this...also 350k ap is nothing

Unified_Gaming · March 24

The queue position continues to bug out multiple times when doing other activities such as exploring, delves etc. As such, you can't do anything but wait and the queue is still 150+ for the past 30 minutes.

Are there any plans to add a 2nd campaign given the golden pursuits are all PvP based thus a lot of PvE players are wanting to jump in for the rewards adding additional pressure to the queue?

Thanks,

Dan

Soraka · March 24

I had the impression there wasn't going to be a queue for this?

Also, I love the visual changes to the zone

Tommy_The_Gun · March 24

At first, I was a bit sceptical, but after playing for some time and getting all Golden Pursuit done, I think it is actually awesome and... I am gonna say it and I am 100% honest:

It is better than actual normal Cyrodiil.

Because, if you think about it, what this "special mode" does, it is basically trading build diversity for the most competitive, accessible and fair ESO PvP experience that ever existed.

Everyone has access to same stuff. Everyone has same stats, same skills and consumables. Every NB has same things. Every Sorc has same things. You can still slot skills that suit your play-style. Each class can still be a Damage Dealer, a Healer or a Tank. It is still possible.

Literary, the only advantage one player can have over other is reaction time & experience. And I don't mean experience as if "higher level" but player experience (you know, knowledge about map, skills, mechanics etc). All of the sudden it matters again. Same with reflex & reaction time, as suprise ! - game works and is responsive ! No "always in combat bug". No lag. No FPS drops. No unbreakable stuns. No disconnections.

To quote the classic: "It just works".

Seriously, I had flashbacks from 2014 ESO PvP. Despite being limited to just a preset with a bunch of slot-able skills, it is kinda how it used to be back then. Huge armies fighting & small scale for disrupting enemy behind front lines (capturing towns, resources etc). I also think that huge part of this is lack of ball groups. At least for now, but as far as I can tell (if my memory does not fail me) is that Ball Groups were not present in early 2014 - 2015 ESO PvP. And even if they were - they ware rare and actually killable. Same with unkillable tanks. Sure, you can tank a lot, but no one is immortal.

The game feels um... healthy, fair and fun again.

If you think about it, if build diversity is the only serious drawback (and maybe queue times, but that it due to Golden Pursuit & novelty factor) ... then at least for me it is kinda worth it, considering what you are getting in exchange.

Kamchuk · March 24

First - Initial feedback to the ZOS team - there were hundreds of players, both PVP experienced and new PVE'ers. The zone chat was filled with comments that had the same theme and almost the same wording throughout the 4 hours I was on this afternoon (March 24th), and that was: "This is the most fun I have had in years", or "This is Awesome"or "This is Amazing". Hundreds of players fighting around a Keep was why we all were drawn to this amazing game in the first place. I'll echo the same reaction - It was AWESOME.

Observances:

The "Stuck in Combat" bug was GONE! Congratulations!
There was NO lag in spite of the numbers of players! Skills fired immediately.
No one was unkillable. No Metas, no Procs sets, no Ball Groups. It was ALL Skill. There were PVE'ers at level 20's, 30;s being competitive with PVP Veterans. That in my opinion is how it should be. The Armor does not fight the battle for you. You could be naked and have the same results. (Though from the looks of some player's characters - please don't go naked... )
There doesn't appear to be any advantage to being a part of a Group other than Communications, and Quest sharing when Quests are available. (For those that haven't been to Vengeance yet - As of right now there are no quests). No HOT stacking, no Synergy, nothing. IMO that is a good thing. I hope that group sizes are increase to 24 or Higher. This would provide new PVP players to join a group and learn.

Critique:

Foot or mounted travel is too slow, as was mentioned above.
Many players said they missed their CPs and Class' special abilities. I agree with their comments. After 11 years we have all spent enormous time developing our characters, Class, and honing our skills. I hope there is a way to keep this aspect of character development in the final PVP product. IMO, armor sets should be irrelevant in PVP. Just Class, and Skill.

Today was FUN. I hope tomorrow is better.

Kungfu · March 24

I don't know what to say, ZOS.

Except: KEEP IT THIS WAY PLEASE!!

I represent a VERY small guild these days and JUST in case they don't each come in here, all six have said they have not had this much fun in Cyro --- some say EVER --- some of us old salty dogs say "since stress tests & first six months"

This test - please... please consider keeping what you have and SLOWLY incrementing change. AND ROLL BACK if it breaks.

But we're getting out of combat like we're supposed to. We're not lagging. I mean, not like we were / have! Skills and bar swaps are actually happening!

Don't get me wrong, this is far from "balanced" but take it for what we are saying: IT. IS. FUN. AGAIN

SpiritKitten · March 25

I had at least 6 extra long loading screens when encountering large battles. As a healer, loss to the resto staff skill line really hurt. Seems like my healing was mostly pointless and I kept running out of magicka. My resto staff heavy attacks landed less than 5% of the time, maybe due to decreased range. I did however receive credit for kills (I am guessing on people I was healing who received credit for kills), which is not currently working in live cyro, so I can never do the kill 150 players quest on live. This was a welcome change. Please fix this on the live servers. The mount speed was too slow. I missed a lot of flag flips because of this. I encountered the stuck-in-combat bug which prevented me from mounting only once, which is a huge difference. As a healer, I gotta admit, I did not have fun. It was a rough, painful, and frustrating experience. I left after completing my golden pursuit.

BaronSalmon · March 25

Performance is great but please give us weapon skill lines - hurts healers the most! It would also be great if we had max mount speed if it needs to be simplified as Cyrodiil is a large map.

But we understand that this is just a performance test - chat sentiment suggests everyone is having a blast and has brought a lot of players who otherwise wouldn't partake in PVP into Cyrodiil.

Thanks devs!

huskandhunger · March 25

Thanks for making this test, it's so much fun playing this mode 😁 there are hundreds of players battling alongside me and I have no lag at all, I haven't had this much fun in PVP in years! This is the best change you have made in the game so far ✨👌

Only suggestion I would like to see is please add a version of werewolf thank you 🙏😊✌️

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin

huskandhunger · March 25

Oh there is also a bug, I'm a Templar and I was able to be stunned during Practiced Incantation heal ultimate when it says we supposed to be immune to disables, thanks 👍

SpiritKitten · March 25

I went back with a baby sorc, and it was more fun. There were too many siege, and I wanted to siege sometimes but couldn't due to error of too many. Basically for the Vengeance campaign just gotta run with the zerg to get anything done. I liked that but also, if not with the biggest zerg, efforts fail. I didn't like that, especially because it takes a long time to get anywhere. Also, the loading screens are so annoying, I had 3 loads in a row, all within a few seconds of each other, and multiple other times.

Stridig · March 25

I'm hearing some really good things from almost everyone so far. We are seeing a very noticeable change in performance and people are having fun. Some people even hoping it stays just like it is forever. I have gone from not wanting to participate in this testing to being excited for it. Hopefully some good changes will come from this. We'll done!

MehrunesRazor · March 25

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

MehrunesRazor wrote: »

First thing is, i didn't know this event or test even existed before today. Probably the best constructive crit i will have for you today. Please take it into consideration, because I think there should have been some advance warning or, maybe announcement ingame.

Second, i was just accidentally in cyro to get my sorc a completionist task over with and it was a bridge to far for me to even return to cyro after i found out i cant switch my dark deal to give me back stam, i dont even main my sorc anymore but i cant be asked to try to figure out a reverse build to accomodate vengence,

Third, i literally dont have the energy to even look farther than one and two, please consider both and i hope the event is over so i can go back to cyro with my actual sorc jus to get my item and leave plx and thx

Thanks for the feedback. We will share with the team the mention of an in-game announcement. Just to note, we have been talking about this test since January. And we announce the dates at the beginning of March. You can always check on update to date info on our website.

Here is our FAQ (partly based on our earlier Q&A in Feb.) talking about what to expect and the goals of the test: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/674932

Fair enough. I looked it all up after coming here from the game and i see it has been discussed in the pts, I think the surprise was since usually theres content creators talking about it and nobody mentioned it on youtube. Either way, its fair enough that you guys did discuss it here. Still not gonna be able to bother with it since i usually dont participate in pvp events anyway. Its a small inconvenience i can wait.

I should be clear about the rest of the feedback before i go though - The thing that made me have to say no thanks and turn around and leave cyro was when I saw that id have to play the pre-chosen morph and go in cyro knowing full well im going to have a bad experience fumbling around like that.

So, better advertisement of the event and preparation for the players outside of the pts as is usually done with most big events would avoid confusion, and at least some ability to customise your build for stam or mag should be a base level thing is the tldr. I might have just bit the bullet and muddled through if i had at least morphs available to make a comfortable build with. Thx.

Einar_Hrafnarsson · March 25

The new Vengeance Campaign is delightful. No Ball groups, no overpowered Sets. Finally some class identity back.

That said: in large scale fights with hundreds of people my FPS go down to about 30 which is a massive impact on my 80-100 FPS in the normal Cyro campaign.

I would also request the cosmetics for skills being added back in and the Mount speed being dialed up a bit. Its painfully slow.

Otherwise id say the new Campaign is a big Win.

XIIICaesar · March 25

Would be great to get the other skill lines as well as optional stamina morphs for people that prefer melee/bruiser/brawler play styles. The character stat sheet being equal is nice but it could be improved. Get rid of all item sets like I'm Vengeance & instead of item sets etc you have different templates to choose from. Some may give more crit damage or cut chance than other while some give more armor but less recovery etc. Other games have similar systems in place PvP such as Guild Wars 2 PvP mode. It achieves the same goal of simplifying the build system, dropping item sets & proc sets but while still giving options & choice for build diversity.

Also, like I said during the PTS, you should keep the Vengeance sky/weather/atmosphere & have it enabled dynamically whenever Volendrung has appeared.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · March 26

I finally got in tonight and I had a lot more fun than I thought I would. Fights are huge! And I like that siege is basically unlimited and that everyone has it, although the two points combined meant there were a few times I couldn’t deploy anything.

SpiritKitten · March 26

As you can see, the terrain flattens out (doesn't load assets) and I am stuck running in place. This happened no less than 20x tonight. You can see next to me others stuck at the same spot. This happens all over. Middle of a field, At a keep, at a resource, at a gate...inside a keep. Doesn't matter. I missed many flag flips and sieges because of this.

This happened a couple of times before you increased the population, but now it happens so much I just gave up and left Cyrodiil, because getting left behind sucks.

SeaGtGruff · March 26

How do weapons work in this campaign?

I realize that set bonuses, set procs, and enchantments are disabled, but if I use my existing weapon (which is still equipped when I enter the campaign) will it do the amount of damage that's shown on the weapon's screen, as determined by the type of weapon (e.g., greatsword), the level (CP160), and the quality (legendary)?

Or will I need to equip one of the provided weapons (e.g., Ebon Greatsword), which shows a lower amount of damage?

And since there are no Weapon skills, only Class skills, does it even matter whether I equip, say, an axe versus a sword, or a bow versus a destruction staff?

I assume it probably matters whether it's a melee weapon like a sword, or a ranged weapon like a bow, but does it matter?

blktauna · March 26

I've been kicked several times over these few days and the queue to get in his HUGE but when I get in, its been a blast. Actual fights, no irritating ROA BS, no troll tanks...

The people complaining about balance should check how they are crutching on some skills versus knowing their class.

Everyone dies here, combat is pretty continuous and I am getting mostly responsive return on using skills. Range seems borked for staves and no real AOE attacks is odd but I could get used to it. I am oddly having a hard time mounting but no 'you can not mount in combat' alert comes up so I'm not sure what thats about.

I'm enjoying this and yes please keep the weird sky, its great.

Necrotech_Master · March 27

i havent really bothered trying to mess with vengeance because the queues are way too long

the pop cap is way too low for only having 1 cyro campaign

the gold pursuit is also not very incentivized for me personally either, 360k ap + like 30k gold is basically nothing

driosketch · March 27

So I finally got around to trying the new mode. I geared up like I normally would, and too my shock, I had no access to just about anything. Just modified class skill trees, and 7 infinite use pvp items I could slot, including a tri-stat potion. So I picked a load out that was as close to what I was used to and headed out for the closest fight.

Now DC was down to 3 bars, 2 bars by the time I left 80 minutes later, while the other 2 where locked. Even so, the map was pretty balanced, and we soon took back three of our home keeps restoring things to the usual 6 v 6 v 6 default layout.

I found the fights pretty fun, more reminiscent of early game Cyrodiil. Player skill still mattered. I survived longer versus small organized groups, and they in turn could still hold out in a resource tower versus larger unorganized groups, to a point. Eventually, you get enough numbers, you can push them out. I know not everyone is going to like hearing that, zerg game play and such. But there does seem to be a good balance currently, not just the numbers on each side, but the sum of the skills of each.

Healing was also a bit interesting, you needed to target, halo, who you wanted to heal. So not a lot of brainless heal spamming, but not so hard an experienced healer couldn't grasp and keep players alive.

The golden pursuit wasn't too bad, I managed to knock it out in little over an hour. I think for anyone curious about alliance PvP, now is a good time to try it. It's literally just the basics. It does feel bit bare bones though, with so much including the quests and shops disabled. I could see a more functional version of this mode as maybe a replacement for the non-vet or no CP campaign.

Askys94 · March 27

Personally as someone who doesn't PVP to much and is more "Casual", but dipped my toes in it, these changes have great potential!

Before, most of the time i was mostly delegated to being a supportive or Siege weapon operator... as -Most- proper PVP players, you simply cant beat if you don't also got that experience, gear and game performance. And don't get me started on the Ball Groups.

Whilst i love the Cyrodill concept, of sieging and castles and such, a lot of the time, it don't matter. You basically just compete who got the biggest ball, and the keeps are more of a slow down. Fun for a bit, but quite often pointless. Especially in the big Campaign.

But now it feels like even i can have a chance, sure, not against a big ball, but that's not really a "flaw" i expect to get wrecked if i bumrush 15 players alone. But i can actually do something, and it all doesn't end up becoming a "Ring around the rosies" on a tower.

Likewise as a healer i found it to be much more enjoyably, as now when everyone don't have dozens of heal over time effects on them, you are much more valuable as a healer. And you can actually help your team turn the tide at points.

The main downside ive felt so far, i assume will be solved in the future. Is the lack of Variety and personality. As there is no Weapon, guild or other such skills. Whilst these skills do lift the Classes well, some classes simply don't feel like they have the gear set for PVP.

Still have had some "Performance" issues, but mostly that's probably due to my hardware, mainly its 2 things.
1. World stops loading when in BIG Groups, textures don't load and you get stuck in place till it loads. Rare, but happens.
2. Audio issues when there is big fights.

Now how you will make future skills, CP and gears work, i'm not sure. But i can say so far, this is a good step, needs some work. But frankly, the Old Cyro was awful most of the time, Cool concept, but it just didn't work in practice. Now from what ive done so far, id say its pretty darn enjoyable.

And considering the main replies i've seen so far have been either "Its great!" or "Buhu, i cant steam roll everyone" id say its going in the right direction ^-^

Now it just needs some "Fleshing out"

So il continue to partake in this test, see what else i can find

For the glory of Potassium!

Arrow312 · March 27

Crash around Chalman 08:45 pm MEST bigger fight.
PC EU

Fantalior · March 27

Thanks for this elegant way of testing and for the new ways to interpret classes.
1. First of all, I can say that the associated golden projects are very well done and quick to complete; it's perfect.

2. I'm suddenly enjoying classes that I've ignored due to their lack of execution abilities. For example,
- fantastic -> the Warden's ultimate: the bear doesn't announce itself or isn't too slow, which is how it should be!
- the Necro also received a nice execute ability with the Siphon ability.
- for the Nightblade, please get the Assassin's Blade with the longer range. That really bothered me, but the idea of increasing the Grim Focus (bow) to 3 seconds is simply wonderful; that's how it should be! (or even 35 seconds, as long as it's not over 5 stacks which then disappear)
- but the Arcanist should also get his execute ability back for PvP -> that can easily be added back to the Flail (tentacle ability), preferably with a longer range.

3. the Sorc. Skamping gives you a spammable pet, which is very good and doesn't clog up any bars.

4. I like this class (Sorc.) best with the Templar in these tests.