Group Finder: Players skipping and intentionally breaking quests.

Rishikesa108 · March 2025

Rude. Rude behavior, rude words, rude people.
In-game behavior is exactly the reflection of irl behavior.
I'm sorry for what happened to the OP. I'm sorry because I see it happen often: low level people get swamped by mobs not killed by runners, then violently joined to the boss, no one can open chests... I'm sorry for that.
No solution has been found yet.
However the OP can contact me in game, my nick is the same as the forum one, PC EU, and I promise him/her a slow run, with quests, chests and sacks.

Dragonnord · March 2025

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

Rude. Rude behavior, rude words, rude people.
In-game behavior is exactly the reflection of irl behavior.
I'm sorry for what happened to the OP. I'm sorry because I see it happen often: low level people get swamped by mobs not killed by runners, then violently joined to the boss, no one can open chests... I'm sorry for that.
No solution has been found yet.
However the OP can contact me in game, my nick is the same as the forum one, PC EU, and I promise him/her a slow run, with quests, chests and sacks.

No solution has been found yet? You are being so ungrateful with ZOS.

ZOS created the Group Finder Tool where players can create customized groups for whatever they want to do (ie: dungeon questing) and you say that no solution has been found?

And again, no solution has been found? Go with friends, guild mates, form a dungeon questing group in zone chat, form a dungeon questing group in Discord, use the customized group tool, etc. There are PLENTY OF SOLUTIONS.

tomofhyrule · March 2025

I think part of the problem that always comes up in this is that everyone thinks that "majority rules" is a good strategy - if three people are speedrunning and one wants to quest, then the quester should leave and find another group. But if three people are questing and one is speedrunning, then the speedrunner is the one who should not be there.

Unfortunately, all it takes is one speedrunner to mess up the three questers' days. "Majority rules" doesn't really work when one of the people has the sole power to mess everything up for the other three.

Now I don't PuG, mainly because I don't want to have to deal with this. But I think that anyone who goes nuts about "I can't do the quests in a PuG!" is in the wrong, since you can't force people to do what you want. But I also think that the "PuGs are for speedrunning only!" crowd is wrong as well... but they can force a speedrun even if nobody else wants it.

That's why there's such vitriol to speedrunners. You essentially need all four people to be on board to do the quest (even if you're just spamming E through the dialogue, which really doesn't take long in dungeons past basegame). But one single person who doesn't want to help others can ruin it for everyone just by running ahead.

allochthons · March 2025

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

I would also just add in reference to the OP that I know how annoying it is, but it's not necessarily intentional. Someone might not speak English. Or they might not have looked at chat.

Or they may have the text chat completely turned off. I'm pretty sure I've run into this as well.

OP, full sympathy. I hate this as well. I've engaged in these threads here on the forums plenty of times before. But now I'm simply resigned. If I have to do the quest 2-3 times (or more for *%^-&! Volenfell), so it goes.

frogthroat · March 2025

Dragonnord wrote: »

And again, no solution has been found?

Very good point. A quick skim through the comments and I found about 15 comments where some solution has been suggested. It was a quick skim, so give or take a few.

But yeah, this conversation seems to be devolving into:
"There's no solution."
"yes there is. here: solution 1, 2, 3 and 4."
"Why no solution?"
"but there is, solution 1, 2, 4"
"ZOS will probably not make a change to fix the situation"
"they have, solution 1 is here."
"but why no solution, tho?"

I don't really understand what is wrong with the tools to customise your experience. Why is it a must that people get exactly what they want from this most random and chaotic finder, and not from a tool that was specifically designed for it?

"I want to hammer this nail with a fish."
"A fish is no good for that. Here, use a hammer instead."
"Oh woe is me, why isn't there a solution? I just have to keep trying to hammer this nail with a fish."

SilverBride · March 2025

frogthroat wrote: »

"I want to hammer this nail with a fish."
"A fish is no good for that. Here, use a hammer instead."
"Oh woe is me, why isn't there a solution? I just have to keep trying to hammer this nail with a fish."

That really hit the nail on the head.

valenwood_vegan · March 2025

The decade-old argument about the correct way to run a dungeon will not be resolved.

But if you run a dungeon with like-minded people, there won't be an argument in the first place.

Sure ZoS should at least fix the old quests, but they quite obviously don't seem to consider this to be an important issue.

Coming on the forums and telling one group of strangers that other, likely totally unrelated strangers are being rude and *should* act a certain way, is not going to accomplish anything. So for now, folks have gotta use the tools that are available to accomplish their goals. That's really all there is to it.

CalamityCat · March 2025

frogthroat wrote: »

I don't really understand what is wrong with the tools to customise your experience. Why is it a must that people get exactly what they want from this most random and chaotic finder, and not from a tool that was specifically designed for it?

"I want to hammer this nail with a fish."
"A fish is no good for that. Here, use a hammer instead."
"Oh woe is me, why isn't there a solution? I just have to keep trying to hammer this nail with a fish."

The issue isn't the tools, but those who think the tools are only for them. Random groups and group finder are for everyone to use, not just playstyle x or y. Some players don't read the forums to know where they're supposed to play from one week to the next

If all the questers and roleplayers switched to using group finder, players would be complaining that the random group finder is deserted and they've "had to queue for an hour for a speed run that should have taken 2 mins!" Oh and "OMG group finder is all noobs and roleplayers! and it takes ages to form a group there now!!!"

GloatingSwine · March 2025

PUGs gonna PUG.

My latest character I had to make a lazy solo build* to do Crypt of Hearts 1's quest because it's off critical path and ain't nobody going that way

The perfect solution would be a set of Undaunted NPCs that show up like FFXIV's duty support to let you complete dungeons in a story mode that only has the quest in not the drops. (Would also let you stop and look at some of the scenery).

* By which I mean I put on Ring of the Pale Order.

frogthroat · March 2025

CalamityCat wrote: »

The issue isn't the tools,

This we can agree on. Alas, I think our opinions on what is the real culprit might differ.

CalamityCat wrote: »

but those who think the tools are only for them.

The irony is that people who refuse to consider the tool created for the sole purpose of finding a group where everyone's goals align and instead demand everyone in the chaos side (dungeon finder) play the way they want are the ones who say other players should consider others.

CalamityCat wrote: »

Random groups and group finder are for everyone to use, not just playstyle x or y.

Correct. Dungeon finder (ie, "random groups") is for everyone and there is no specific rule how you should complete the dungeon. People group up with random people in a random dungeon and it is, like I've said now many times, random. If you think you can bring order to chaos, you don't understand humans.

Group finder is for people to define the playstyle they want to play. That was created by ZOS to address this very issue. It is not ZOS' fault if people insist on trying to find order in chaos that is the random dungeon finder.

CalamityCat wrote: »

Some players don't read the forums to know where they're supposed to play from one week to the next

And if they also do not notice the big text "Group Finder" in the same menu they use to go to Dungeon Finder, I don't think reading forums will help.

CalamityCat wrote: »

If all the questers and roleplayers switched

When has that ever happened in any place? You can't ever get all people to do anything only one way.

CalamityCat wrote: »

to using group finder, players would be complaining that the random group finder is deserted and they've "had to queue for an hour for a speed run that should have taken 2 mins!"

Which is already what many DDs are complaining. This is an existing issue. And the issue is lack of support players.

CalamityCat wrote: »

Oh and "OMG group finder is all noobs and roleplayers! and it takes ages to form a group there now!!!"

Group finder is already used by people doing pledges, vet (HM) clears and such. I am sure roleplayers will fit in as well. There's even an own category for questing.

But I see you are passionate about this. I am genuinely interested, what would you do to fix the dungeon finder that questers are priority one? And why Group Finder could not do that already?

SeaGtGruff · March 2025

To my knowledge, this game has no mechanic which allows a quester to "force" the rest of a group to proceed slowly through a dungeon. I keep seeing people in these threads defending speed-runners and claiming that it works both ways, that no quester should be able to "force" the group to go slowly, yet no one ever explains how these questers are supposedly able to "force" the group to go slowly. That scenario simply isn't possible in this game.

The most that questers can do is request that the group go slowly, and-- assuming the majority of the group agrees-- vote-kick any speed-runner who refuses to go along with the majority's decision. And that is exactly the same thing that a group who wants to go as quickly as possible can do-- vote-kick any slowpoke who doesn't want, or is unable, to keep up. So as far as vote-kicking goes, that is a mechanic which is "fair" as far as going both ways-- although I seriously doubt that there are as many groups who vote-kick speed-runners as there are who vote-kick slowpokes, so having a mechanic which can be used in either scenario does not mean that said mechanic is actually used equally as often in both types of scenarios.

However, the "joining encounter in progress" mechanic allows a single speed-runner to initiate a boss encounter and pull the rest of the group into the encounter, whether or not the speed-runner indicated their intention of doing so beforehand, and whether or not the majority of the group wanted to proceed that way. It allows a single group member to force the rest of the group to proceed through the dungeon in accordance with the speed-runner's preference, without the speed-runner needing to get a majority ruling first and then having to go along with it.

It is a lopsided situation which completely favors the speed-runners and disfavors the questers, which is why we see thread after thread popping up to complain about speed-runners ruining dungeon quests for questers, but not about this mythical other scenario which people claim exists where questers can "force" speed-runners to go slowly.

For myself, my solution is to solo the dungeons I'm able to solo, so I can proceed at whatever pace I wish (and am capable of), and skip the rest-- which means I'm missing out on the vast majority of dungeons. On the extremely rare occasions that I do join a group to run a dungeon, I skip the quest because I know ahead of time that I'm not going to be able to do it.

And as far as any changes that were made to have quests update "automatically" as certain bosses are cleared, that still does not allow for a quester to actually read the dialog, or any documents lying around, and fully enjoy the storyline. Once again, it is a change made with the apparent intention of being helpful and solving a problem (that the players themselves created through their problematic behavior), but which has ended up working out in favor of the speed-runners while continuing to disfavor the questers.

Personally, I am okay with never seeing the insides of the vast majority of the dungeons in this game, despite the fact that I always buy the DLC dungeons despite having an active ESO Plus subscription. I've purchased every dungeon in the game, even knowing that my chances of being able to actually play through them as I wish are essentially slim-to-none. I'm okay with not being able to acquire the leads for all of the fragments needed to acquire all of the "must-have" mythical gear, despite that hampering my ability to clear-- or even to meaningfully contribute, as a member of a group, toward clearing-- the harder content in the game. I'm okay with it, but I can appreciate that a lot of other players who are in the same boat as me are not okay with it.

Just please stop claiming that a single slowpoke can "force" the rest of a group to proceed slowly through a dungeon against the majority's wishes, and that this fictitious scenario somehow justifies the ability of a single speed-runner to actually force the rest of the group to proceed quickly through a dungeon even if the majority didn't wish to do so. Vote-kicking the offender doesn't work if the party is pulled into a boss encounter before they've even realized that it was about to happen and could initiate and complete a vote-kick.

frogthroat · March 2025

An addition to @CalamityCat

I do understand the frustration of a broken quest in a dungeon finder. I have been on the receiving end many times. And I have vented those furstrations to my ESO friends and in guild discord. But I also do not take it too seriously, because humans in an uncoordinated group will behave in most erratic ways.

That's why I always try to accommodate those who have a quest if I choose to use the Chaos Method (Dungeon Finder). But I have said it before, not to actually listen to the whole story, but enough that you can complete the quest and get the skill point.

But I do understand there are people who just want to get to the end quickly for the xp and transmutes. I do not try to place an "ought" to it. It is just a matter of "is". Inconsiderate speedrunners exist. Good or bad (ought), they exist (is). If I don't want the roll of a dice if this is going to be a pleasant or unpleasant run, I use all the other tools available to me.

My solution

One solution would be to allow RND with a smaller group. For example "I do it solo" option. I wouldn't mind to solo a dungeon if I get the transmutes at the end. And I am sure most of the speedrunners who basically solo the dungeon anyway wouldn't mind. That would remove those players from the pool.

A more advanced version of this could be you can set minimum group size and a timeframe you are willing to wait. You know, "minimum 2 players, but if the group is not full in X minutes, go to dungeon with a smaller group."

ESO_player123 · March 2025

C_Inside wrote: »

What I really want to know is why do questers/casual players even care about the quests in these group dungeons? They're all the same. You talk to a generic NPC that has problem that can ONLY be fixed by killing the last boss. There is no deviation from this format. You can't betray the quest giver and side with the boss. You don't get different outcomes based on what prior zone stories you've done. You can't be evil and kill everyone. You can't use diplomacy and just talk your way out of combat. The only option you have is kill all the enemies/bosses. Every single dungeon is like this.

The quests for Lep Seclusa and Exiled Redoubt are exactly the same as the one in FG1. It's just the skin that's different.

So why do you care? You've already done every single dungeon quest as soon as you finish the one for FG1. Just grab the quest, spam through the pointless dialogue, and get the NPC to dispense his skill point at the end.

That is exactly what the people cannot do: no grabbing the quest because someone already pulled the first trash pack, no quest advancing because someone skipped some mobs/optional boss or did not wait for an NPC to finish their blah-blah-blah (for example, you need to wait a long time to even get to the dialog skipping part in Vault of Madness). This is only happens in some base game dungeons.

katanagirl1 · March 2025

Have you guys ever tried creating a custom group in the group finder? After an hour you give up and just close the group for lack of interest. If you happen to get 1 or 2 people to join, they give up and leave because they don’t want to wait.

SilverBride · March 2025

Join a guild and ask guildies.
Ask players on friends list.
Recruit in zone chat.
Enter dungeon and pick up quest before queueing for a group.
Solo if possible, or run with a friend and companions.

valenwood_vegan · March 2025

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Have you guys ever tried creating a custom group in the group finder? After an hour you give up and just close the group for lack of interest. If you happen to get 1 or 2 people to join, they give up and leave because they don’t want to wait.

I mean this is definitely a problem, I've noticed how dead the group finder is at times too. And it sorta touches on another issue closely related to speed running in the random finder - maybe there just aren't that many players interested in repeating these dungeons and most of the interest comes from the random daily rewards.

I can speak only for myself, but I have no interest whatsoever in repeating most of the dungeons, or in doing them with a PuG... I generally run them with friends and/or guildies for a slow story run and then for achievements when they're new, and lose interest rapidly unless there's some new shiny to collect. Sometimes I run them to help guildies trying to collect a thing later on, but I mostly have no desire to repeat them.

Fortunately, I don't need the transmutes so I don't do the random normal thing. But for people who do really need the transmutes, I understand why they want a quick run... they potentially don't actually want to be there at all. I don't have the solution though. Take this crowd out of the random finder (ie: by removing the rewards), and it might be as dead as the group finder.

If there's a point to all these thoughts though, it's that at least in my guilds... people who ask for help with a dungeon for a specific reason generally *do* get it. Maybe not as instantly as with the random finder, they might have to ask a couple times at different times of the day, but guildies do tend to step up and help each other out. And it works because everyone knows what the expectation is ahead of time - the random finder is never going to work like this unfortunately, because there's no communication ahead of time and people are using it for entirely different reasons and with different expectations.

EDIT: Sorry this is getting long-winded, but one last thought that occurred to me on this - a nice enhancement for the group finder would be the ability to sign up for "notifications" or something about certain types of groups. Like, I'm not going to sit there monitoring the listings all day - but if I say... felt like doing a dungeon for whatever reason and I got a popup about a dungeon group forming, I might be more likely to use it. Part of why groups formed in guild chat work is because the chat comes up while we're going about our business and everyone who's on in the guild sees it in that moment - unlike the group finder where we'd have to constantly stop what we're doing and check the listings.

frogthroat · March 2025

g

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Have you guys ever tried creating a custom group in the group finder? After an hour you give up and just close the group for lack of interest. If you happen to get 1 or 2 people to join, they give up and leave because they don’t want to wait.

It is a relatively new tool and not everyone realises you can use it and some don't want to.

Currently two DDs needed on vTI on PCEU. A healer needed for vER HM.

Not many options because the tool is new(ish) and people still insist on using Dungeon Finder. Which, to me, means people rather have "whatever as long as it's now" than "what I would prefer and I am willing to wait." Use it more and it will become faster.

I use it for trial farm runs sometimes. And if I see there's easy 8 key pledges today, I use it for pledge group if I play at a time people in my guild are not online. Works fine for those. The trial side works pretty well already, but that might be before there was no such possibility. Used to be following zone chat in Craglorn. But, albeit slowly, the dungeon side is also picking up. Most of time I see either pledges or HM attempts there, but I have not kept any record so this on a gut feeling.

Dragonnord · March 2025

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Have you guys ever tried creating a custom group in the group finder? After an hour you give up and just close the group for lack of interest. If you happen to get 1 or 2 people to join, they give up and leave because they don’t want to wait.

Then if you know (with "you" I don't mean you literally) that there is lack of interest in joining a custom group that want to quest, then why you queue for a random group expecting that that random group will quest?

There is no sense in that logic.

You know there is no interest in questing, but you still use the random group finder to quest and then complain that players don't quest?

If you know there is no interest, then, again, form a group with friends, with guild mates, in zone chat, in Discord, etc.

But no, players keep beating a dead horse (queuing with randoms for questing).

CalamityCat · March 2025

frogthroat wrote: »

Group finder is for people to define the playstyle they want to play. That was created by ZOS to address this very issue. It is not ZOS' fault if people insist on trying to find order in chaos that is the random dungeon finder.

I think part of the issue is players know group finder might take longer, where they can queue as a fake tank/healer and take their chance with the random groups with almost instant entry.

frogthroat wrote: »

Which is already what many DDs are complaining. This is an existing issue. And the issue is lack of support players.

I don't think it helps that there is little respect for those who do play support roles either. Tanks get blamed for group wipes and are wary of the responsibility/hassle. I don't find healing is a problem, but I know some players don't want that responsibility.

frogthroat wrote: »

But I see you are passionate about this. I am genuinely interested, what would you do to fix the dungeon finder that questers are priority one? And why Group Finder could not do that already?

One obvious fix is to ensure all dungeon quests can be completed even if a speed runner has pulled your group through past objective points or spawns you needed to kill.

Let a player select to start a quest without having to wait for a long speech or monologue, by which time a fast player has likely started a boss fight. I like the system in trials where you get in and instantly you can accept a quest. Then you aren't looking for an NPC or waiting around until they stop talking and you can speak to them.

Also, being able to go back through dungeons and open chests/unlock lorebooks is also useful. I'd extend the timer before players get kicked out after groups disband, so they can walk back and get things they missed and do some exploration if they want to.

The other fix I'd like to see is that groups can't be pulled forward to a boss unless the majority of the group are there. Minimum of two in a four man dungeon. Rather than one impatient player can pull three.

Why doesn't group finder suit questing? I think I've already given some reasons, but mainly because questing players are plentiful in random group finder already. I don't think many are checking group finder first. I know I can run my alts through quests and keep up with groups and cross heal to cover the fake tanks/healers I encounter. So it makes zero sense for me to use group finder. I also don't encounter many questers who are slow and inconvenient either. So I don't feel they need to be in group finder. If a player wants something specific or at a certain speed and they won't be happy getting anything else - that's when I'd say use group finder/guilds if it's really important that you get what you want.

frogthroat wrote: »

One solution would be to allow RND with a smaller group. For example "I do it solo" option. I wouldn't mind to solo a dungeon if I get the transmutes at the end. And I am sure most of the speedrunners who basically solo the dungeon anyway wouldn't mind. That would remove those players from the pool.

A more advanced version of this could be you can set minimum group size and a timeframe you are willing to wait. You know, "minimum 2 players, but if the group is not full in X minutes, go to dungeon with a smaller group."

Funny, I've had a lot of nights with three of my guild just wanting to do our pledges quickly, so something like that would be good. Did the new dungeons with my RL partner and our companions the other night as guild mates weren't able to join us. It would work nicely if you're playing at odd times when few players are online too

Amottica · March 2025

frogthroat wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

And again, no solution has been found?

Very good point. A quick skim through the comments and I found about 15 comments where some solution has been suggested. It was a quick skim, so give or take a few.

But yeah, this conversation seems to be devolving into:
"There's no solution."
"yes there is. here: solution 1, 2, 3 and 4."
"Why no solution?"
"but there is, solution 1, 2, 4"
"ZOS will probably not make a change to fix the situation"
"they have, solution 1 is here."
"but why no solution, tho?"

I don't really understand what is wrong with the tools to customise your experience. Why is it a must that people get exactly what they want from this most random and chaotic finder, and not from a tool that was specifically designed for it?

"I want to hammer this nail with a fish."
"A fish is no good for that. Here, use a hammer instead."
"Oh woe is me, why isn't there a solution? I just have to keep trying to hammer this nail with a fish."

I love this post.

I do have an answer though. Using the GF straight up to get a random group of people is the easiest way to get a group.

Ofc, it is hammering a nail with a fish solution because that is a random group of people with random interests for doing the dungeon, which is why this thread was created.

GloatingSwine · March 2025

CalamityCat wrote: »

I don't think it helps that there is little respect for those who do play support roles either. Tanks get blamed for group wipes and are wary of the responsibility/hassle. I don't find healing is a problem, but I know some players don't want that responsibility.

And part of that lack of respect is, once again, speedrunning so the tank always arrives at bossfights out of block juice and skipping all the mobs who then pull the tank into combat firing off Bracing Anchor (and forget having trash and boss specs, you ain't getting time out of combat to switch).

(Or for healers queueing as a fake tank and then all just whizzing around in boss fights trying to kite instead of standing still to be healed and buffed).

katanagirl1 · March 2025

Dragonnord wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Have you guys ever tried creating a custom group in the group finder? After an hour you give up and just close the group for lack of interest. If you happen to get 1 or 2 people to join, they give up and leave because they don’t want to wait.

Then if you know (with "you" I don't mean you literally) that there is lack of interest in joining a custom group that want to quest, then why you queue for a random group expecting that that random group will quest?

There is no sense in that logic.

You know there is no interest in questing, but you still use the random group finder to quest and then complain that players don't quest?

If you know there is no interest, then, again, form a group with friends, with guild mates, in zone chat, in Discord, etc.

But no, players keep beating a dead horse (queuing with randoms for questing).

I set up one to do the secret bosses in Coral Aerie for a lead. I dragged the hubby, someone who only enjoys questing, in there and we got it done with companions. I generally queue up for dungeons on a new toon and just hope for the best as far as turning in the quest. Sometimes I have to run it twice. Really sucks when I don’t fake queue as tank and wait out the 30 minute dps queue. Twice.

But really, doing the quest is part of running the dungeon. A lot of people are just arguing that it is not to justify their speedrunning and fake tanking and fake healing. As long as ZOS won’t take a stand on it there is nothing to be done.

I used to have a friends group to do dungeons but not anymore. I don’t really care to socialize anymore so it’s going to be randoms or nothing. You can’t count on people to help you in a multiplayer game.

EDIT: typo

Amottica · March 2025

GloatingSwine wrote: »

CalamityCat wrote: »

I don't think it helps that there is little respect for those who do play support roles either. Tanks get blamed for group wipes and are wary of the responsibility/hassle. I don't find healing is a problem, but I know some players don't want that responsibility.

And part of that lack of respect is, once again, speedrunning so the tank always arrives at bossfights out of block juice and skipping all the mobs who then pull the tank into combat firing off Bracing Anchor (and forget having trash and boss specs, you ain't getting time out of combat to switch).

(Or for healers queueing as a fake tank and then all just whizzing around in boss fights trying to kite instead of standing still to be healed and buffed).

Tanks speed run all the time. Of course, this thread is about GF groups which is often a different story. It goes back to when we ask for randomness, we should expect randomness. That is really what this thread is about.

spartaxoxo · March 2025

Most video games with random dungeon finders have systems in place to prevent other users from forcibly someone else's quest. It's completely ridiculous that this one still allows for that.

ZOS should have systems in place so that the quests can't be broken. This is obviously a design issue and pinning it on players when almost every other MMO has this figured it out does not hold water imo.

SwimsWithMemes · March 2025

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Most video games with random dungeon finders have systems in place to prevent other users from forcibly someone else's quest. It's completely ridiculous that this one still allows for that.

ZOS should have systems in place so that the quests can't be broken. This is obviously a design issue and pinning it on players when almost every other MMO has this figured it out does hold water imo.

The best way is probably when combat starts (or if you join after first combat) then you get asked to take the quest

frogthroat · March 2025

CalamityCat wrote: »

I think part of the issue is players know group finder might take longer, where they can queue as a fake tank/healer and take their chance with the random groups with almost instant entry.

People are paradoxical. When only a few people use the group finder, it is slow. And because it is slow, only a few people use it. Maybe that's why the trial side works much better because before there was no option.

But I don't think that is a sufficient reason to abandon the change. The Group Finder needs to be promoted more. Maybe some mini event where you get bonuses if you use the Group Finder.

CalamityCat wrote: »

One obvious fix is to ensure all dungeon quests can be completed even if a speed runner has pulled your group through past objective points or spawns you needed to kill.

Let a player select to start a quest without having to wait for a long speech or monologue, by which time a fast player has likely started a boss fight. I like the system in trials where you get in and instantly you can accept a quest. Then you aren't looking for an NPC or waiting around until they stop talking and you can speak to them.

Luckily most of the base game dungeons have been fixed. There's only a few left that have these issues where the quest can break. I hope they fix the remaining dungeons at some point.

CalamityCat wrote: »

Also, being able to go back through dungeons and open chests/unlock lorebooks is also useful. I'd extend the timer before players get kicked out after groups disband, so they can walk back and get things they missed and do some exploration if they want to.

That would be a nice QoL update.

CalamityCat wrote: »

The other fix I'd like to see is that groups can't be pulled forward to a boss unless the majority of the group are there. Minimum of two in a four man dungeon. Rather than one impatient player can pull three.

Not sure if I would support that because the pull can be used as a tool as well. But I get your sentiment.

CalamityCat wrote: »

Why doesn't group finder suit questing? I think I've already given some reasons, but mainly because questing players are plentiful in random group finder already.

The Dungeon Finder is full of speedrunners, too. And also they have the right to be there. So it comes again to pros and cons and individual choice. Do you want to take your chances and not wait long, or do you want to get the group you want and wait a bit.

CalamityCat wrote: »

I don't think many are checking group finder first.

Getting people to switch an existing tool to another is always a bit difficult.

A few percent of users still have Windows 7.

I think promoting Group Finder is a better way to solve this than to give up and keep stubbornly using Dungeon Finder and shaking a fist towards those who play in a different style than you.

CalamityCat · March 2025

frogthroat wrote: »

CalamityCat wrote: »

I think promoting Group Finder is a better way to solve this than to give up and keep stubbornly using Dungeon Finder and shaking a fist towards those who play in a different style than you.

Just to clarify, I don't have any issue with players because of their playstyle. If I disagree with speed runners on here it's their attitude and the points that they're making that I'm disagreeing with. Or the condescending attitude that some talk down to other players with, because they are simply training a newer character and have to complete dungeon quests.

I'm all for promoting group finder, but it isn't a magic fix. Certainly not to avoid speed runners. Players see a group for the dungeon they want and join without reading the details. My guild uses group finder to complete trial and event groups all the time. It's why we sometimes find it preferable to complete the trial with just six of us

For doing dungeon quests, I just use an add-on that selects any dungeons I need to do quests on, plus the day's pledges. It's much faster and easier than manually using group finder for my newer chars.

Elvenheart · March 2025

strebor2095 wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Thysbe wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Play as you want, don't force, demand nor tell others how they have to play their games.

But thats exactly what you speed runners do - forcing your way of playing on others.

Really? Don't you see things go both ways? Then questers and role players are forcing speed runners to go slow.

And don't tell me: "But they should go slow". No, they should go how they want.

When a low level toon respectfully requests they have the dungeon quest and to hold up so they can pick it up and do the necessary npc dialogue along the way, what's your problem with that exactly?

I think it's more than the speedy players may not be interested in reading the chat, or made read it long after they've actually blitzed through the first set of mobs. Some may not care, but some may just never notice.

One thing I’ve noticed when this topic comes up is that there seems to be this implicit expectation that if a player does say that they are doing a quest the other players in the group are expected to be nice and slow down, and any other action is considered rude. But I bet if someone at the start of the run says, “Hey, I only have a little time to get this dungeon finished before I have to leave so can we run through it as fast as possible?” it wouldn’t be seen as inconsiderate or rude if someone else said no and that they needed the quest at that point.

I’m in the group that thinks if you use the random dungeon finder, you get what you get and that neither going fast or going slow is rude or inconsiderate, and I just do what the majority of the group is willing to do. If I have a specific need to go slow and do a quest, I’m going to go about it a different way than use the random dungeon finder, or just keep using it until I get a like-minded group.

Elvenheart · March 2025

CalamityCat wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

I don't really understand what is wrong with the tools to customise your experience. Why is it a must that people get exactly what they want from this most random and chaotic finder, and not from a tool that was specifically designed for it?

"I want to hammer this nail with a fish."
"A fish is no good for that. Here, use a hammer instead."
"Oh woe is me, why isn't there a solution? I just have to keep trying to hammer this nail with a fish."

The issue isn't the tools, but those who think the tools are only for them. Random groups and group finder are for everyone to use, not just playstyle x or y. Some players don't read the forums to know where they're supposed to play from one week to the next

If all the questers and roleplayers switched to using group finder, players would be complaining that the random group finder is deserted and they've "had to queue for an hour for a speed run that should have taken 2 mins!" Oh and "OMG group finder is all noobs and roleplayers! and it takes ages to form a group there now!!!"

For me, the only thing that the random dungeon finder is useful for in my experience is to get that bonus from doing the first random dungeon run of the day. If I randomly get a dungeon I have never done before that’s just icing on the cake, and if I happen to end up in a group that doesn’t mind me needing the quest that’s just the cherry on top. But it’s not an expectation and I don’t get upset if I don’t.

frogthroat · March 2025

CalamityCat wrote: »

an add-on that selects any dungeons I need to do quests on,

For those who don't know, for example an addon "Favorite Dungeon Rotation" does this. You can mark your favourite dungeons in normal or vet and with one button queue to all of them. It also has a special button "Select Incomplete Quests" and with that it queues to those dungeons you are missing a skill point from.

It's pretty handy. I recommend.