Rallying Cry Needs a Nerf – It’s Too Strong and Outclasses Other Sets

forum_gpt · February 20

Since its introduction, Rallying Cry has been a staple in nearly every PvP build, and for good reason—it’s simply too strong compared to other defensive sets. The issue lies in how it provides both high offensive and defensive benefits while having almost no downside.

The Problem:

Let’s compare Rallying Cry to other sets that specialize in Critical Resistance:

Rallying Cry (5-piece bonus):

Grants 300 Weapon & Spell Damage and 1650 Critical Resistance for 20 seconds when you land a critical heal.

Affects up to 11 other group members within 12 meters.

Cooldown: 15 seconds, meaning it has 100% uptime.

Each additional group member slightly reduces the buff's value, but the effect remains powerful.

Can be worn on one bar only and still provide full benefits.
Impregnable Armor (5-piece bonus):

Only grants 1650 Critical Resistance.

No extra benefits, no damage boost.

No synergy or scaling with group play.

Must be worn on both bars to maintain its effect.

Looking at this comparison, it’s clear that Rallying Cry completely outshines alternatives. Rallying Cry not only matches the full crit resist bonus of Impregnable but also grants weapon and spell damage—and does so for an entire group. Additionally, the fact that it can be worn on just one bar while still providing full uptime further increases its flexibility and strength. Why would anyone use other defensive sets when Rallying Cry offers the same defensive benefit while also boosting offense?

The Impact on PvP

Because of how strong Rallying Cry is, it has become a must-have for nearly every PvP build, leading to less build diversity. Instead of players experimenting with different sets for defensive bonuses, Rallying Cry has become the default. Other defensive sets like Impregnable are barely seen anymore. If a set is so powerful that it makes alternatives obsolete, that’s a clear sign of an imbalance.

Suggested Nerfs:

To bring Rallying Cry in line with other sets and encourage more variety in PvP, it needs adjustments. Possible changes include:

Reducing the duration to 8–10 seconds so it doesn’t have 100% uptime.

Lowering the Critical Resistance bonus to around 900–1200 to prevent it from fully replacing defensive sets.

Rallying Cry has dominated PvP since it was introduced, and it’s time for a balance pass. Right now, it’s making other defensive sets irrelevant, and that’s not healthy for build diversity. What do you all think—should it be nerfed, or do you feel it’s fine as it is?

YandereGirlfriend · February 20

Or you could just buff Impregnable to make it... actually Impregnable.

Alchimiste1 · February 20

No

Alchimiste1 · February 20

Imagine going after the one set that scales better with less people and promotes solo/smaller scale pvp.

nice try.

Desiato · February 20

I don't have a great perspective because I don't PVP much anymore, but here's my opinion.

From what I've seen, it's not usually part of builds that are considered to be broken. In contrast, it's a set that allows players to have gank protection without running a high hp, completely defensive build.

I think it's balanced with Impreg because the rallying cry buff can drop off and isn't a guarantee to immediately apply after a heal.

I think nerfing this set would result in more defensive builds to compensate, adding to the near-peer stalemate problem.

forum_gpt · February 20

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Imagine going after the one set that scales better with less people and promotes solo/smaller scale pvp.

nice try.

It offers the same 1650 Critical Resistance as Impregnable while also giving 300 Weapon & Spell Damage, with the added bonus of working on just one bar. That’s an unfair advantage over other defensive sets that require full-time commitment.

If it were truly a ‘small-scale’ PvP set, it wouldn’t be the default choice for almost every build in Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds. The fact that it dominates both solo and group play just proves how overtuned it is.

Alchimiste1 · February 20

forum_gpt wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Imagine going after the one set that scales better with less people and promotes solo/smaller scale pvp.

nice try.

It offers the same 1650 Critical Resistance as Impregnable while also giving 300 Weapon & Spell Damage, with the added bonus of working on just one bar. That’s an unfair advantage over other defensive sets that require full-time commitment.

If it were truly a ‘small-scale’ PvP set, it wouldn’t be the default choice for almost every build in Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds. The fact that it dominates both solo and group play just proves how overtuned it is.

Now do the proc set damage to weapon damage convergence of sets like pyrebrand, vateshran inferno, rush of agony dot damage, sheer venom, eso scavenging demise and other notable hard hitting proc sets.

then tell us how OP rallying cry is.
No thank you undercover ball group member.

.

Teeba_Shei · February 20

forum_gpt wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Imagine going after the one set that scales better with less people and promotes solo/smaller scale pvp.

nice try.

It offers the same 1650 Critical Resistance as Impregnable while also giving 300 Weapon & Spell Damage, with the added bonus of working on just one bar. That’s an unfair advantage over other defensive sets that require full-time commitment.

If it were truly a ‘small-scale’ PvP set, it wouldn’t be the default choice for almost every build in Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds. The fact that it dominates both solo and group play just proves how overtuned it is.

I completely agree. This set is essentially like having impregnable and hunding's rage active at all times. Probably time to rework this set.

It’s also seriously damaging build diversity—when one set offers this much value with so few drawbacks, there’s almost no reason to run alternatives.

Teeba_Shei · February 20

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Imagine going after the one set that scales better with less people and promotes solo/smaller scale pvp.

nice try.

It offers the same 1650 Critical Resistance as Impregnable while also giving 300 Weapon & Spell Damage, with the added bonus of working on just one bar. That’s an unfair advantage over other defensive sets that require full-time commitment.

If it were truly a ‘small-scale’ PvP set, it wouldn’t be the default choice for almost every build in Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds. The fact that it dominates both solo and group play just proves how overtuned it is.

Now do the proc set damage to weapon damage of sets like pyrebrand, vateshran inferno, rush of agony dot damage, sheer venom, eso scavenging demise and other notable hard hitting proc sets.

then tell us how OP rallying cry is.
No thank you undercover ball group member.

Why would a ball group member care about rallying cry? Rallying cry doesn’t protect a small-scale player from getting run over by 12 people. Rush of agony DoT damage? Do you even know what these sets do? Is this post bait?

You can line of sight or out range vate; scavenging demise can be blocked or roll-dodged; sheer venom hits like a baby and can be purged. Pyrebrand might be a little overtuned, but you only see it in duels can it can also be purged. What is the counter-play to rallying cry? There isn't any.

Alchimiste1 · February 20

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Imagine going after the one set that scales better with less people and promotes solo/smaller scale pvp.

nice try.

It offers the same 1650 Critical Resistance as Impregnable while also giving 300 Weapon & Spell Damage, with the added bonus of working on just one bar. That’s an unfair advantage over other defensive sets that require full-time commitment.

If it were truly a ‘small-scale’ PvP set, it wouldn’t be the default choice for almost every build in Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds. The fact that it dominates both solo and group play just proves how overtuned it is.

Now do the proc set damage to weapon damage of sets like pyrebrand, vateshran inferno, rush of agony dot damage, sheer venom, eso scavenging demise and other notable hard hitting proc sets.

then tell us how OP rallying cry is.
No thank you undercover ball group member.

Why would a ball group member care about rallying cry? Rallying cry doesn’t protect a small-scale player from getting run over by 12 people. Rush of agony DoT damage? Do you even know what these sets do? Is this post bait?

You can line of sight or out range vate; scavenging demise can be blocked or roll-dodged; sheer venom hits like a baby and can be purged. Pyrebrand might be a little overtuned, but you only see it in duels can it can also be purged. What is the counter-play to rallying cry? There isn't any.

Sure man,

do those damage convergence when you get the time and get back to us

Oblivion_Protocol · February 20

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

What is the counter-play to rallying cry? There isn't any.

There doesn’t need to be. 1650 Crit Resist equals out to about 25% Crit Damage reduction. If someone’s build relies on crits for damage, it’ll just take them a little longer to kill you. If the build doesn’t rely on crits for damage, congrats on your far-less-useful effect.

If the argument for change is coming from the perspective of Rallying Cry being OP, sorry but no it’s not.

I have a Stam Sorc that can hit you for 11-14k non-crit when all of his buffs come online. Rallying Cry won’t save you from that. I have a DK with Malacath’s Band of Brutality that can DoT you up and whip you to death with no cares given about crit. Rallying Cry won’t save you from that.

The purpose of Rallying Cry’s defensive bonus is to prevent you from getting ganked into the dirt, as well as to counter high crit builds. For everything else (which covers a lot), you ned more to survive.

As for the offensive buff, let’s be honest. 300 weapon and spell damage isn’t much for a solo player. There are plenty of sets that give more and can be worn on one bar.

If the argument for change is coming from the perspective of build diversity, yes it’s frustrating seeing the same seven or eight sets being mixed and matched on every build. But the solution is to bring other sets up, not nerfing things. Because I’ve played this game long enough to know that once one thing gets nerfed, people will find something else to take it’s place and get complained about until that thing gets nerfed, too.

Alchimiste1 · February 20

I was thinking of a different proc set my bad.

My point is that rallying cry is actually a very uniquely designed set that actually benefits solo and small group players more than it does larger groups which is pretty much unseen by other sets. I don't think it's too fair compare rallying to sets like impreg or hunding's rage as those sets came out years ago and in all honesty are terrible by today's standards. A better comparison would be something like pariah, or daedric trickery, both of which are still used and sometimes preferred over rallying cry depending on the class. And of course, in terms of pure tank builds I don't think they bother with rallying as there are better options for them.

There are problematic sets in the game, but I wouldn't really place rallying too high up there. You can try converting the damage from some of the proc sets I mentioned (or other used to gank) into terms of weapon/spell damage so you can see how strong other sets are. There are also other sets like ROA that while they don't have impressive tooltips they do have a significant impact on pvp.

if you really want to adjust rallying cry, I suggest something like being stricter with the weapon/crit resistance scaling as you add more party members.

React · February 20

The only change that should be made to this set, is that the scaling should be much more harsh with group size than it is now. The concept of stat dense sets to benefit people who are likely going to be at a numbers disadvantage is fine, imo. The stat density of this set is nowhere near as strong as the utility, stats, and dynamics that simply having more players in your group brings.

Have it remove 1/3rd of the stats per additional player in the group.

Solo = 1650 crit resist, 300 WD
Duo = 1100 crit resist, 200 WD
Trio = 550 crit resist, 100 WD
4+ = 0 stats

xylena_lazarow · February 20

Rallying Cry is fine, it's the lack of viable alternatives. Deleting Rallying Cry is not going to make Impreg good, players would still ignore it. There need to be more other sets that provide a similarly dense, reliable, and flexible balance of offensive and defensive stats. There are plenty of other unique stat combinations they could make that would see play.

YandereGirlfriend · February 20

As others have said the set is strong but it only stands out because most sets in the game are so weak that they should never be considered for anything outside of roleplaying.

The solution is what SkinnyCheeks was proposing a while back - a wholesale re-itemization and re-balance of the game's existing sets by someone actually familiar with the content and how the game is played at a high level.

Teeba_Shei · February 20

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Rallying Cry is fine, it's the lack of viable alternatives. Deleting Rallying Cry is not going to make Impreg good, players would still ignore it. There need to be more other sets that provide a similarly dense, reliable, and flexible balance of offensive and defensive stats. There are plenty of other unique stat combinations they could make that would see play.

If one set is overtuned then you nerf the one set. You don't try to buff every set in the game up to its level. You don't need to delete the set. It just just be toned down to around 600-800 crit reset and 250 WD. It would still be way better than other options even with a large nerf.

Give us back build diversity!

spartaxoxo · February 20

No. A lot of sets are outdated, created for a vastly different time period in the game, and are strictly worse than a handful of new sets that are performant. It's been years since these sets were touched.

A large scale rebalance of all the old gear is long overdue.

Teeba_Shei · February 20

spartaxoxo wrote: »

No. A lot of sets are outdated, created for a vastly different time period in the game, and are strictly worse than a handful of new sets that are performant. It's been years since these sets were touched.

A large scale rebalance of all the old gear is long overdue.

They could buff the sets a little, but they would have to double the strength of other sets to get it even close to rallying. On top of that it can be back barred while other sets can't. It it just too strong to bother trying to buff everything. Just tone it down and bring other sets up a little.

Urzigurumash · February 20

Buff Malacath back to 25% then the Crit Resist isn't so good

Renato90085 · February 20

I think it's just that the other sets are terrible...

MidniteOwl1913 · February 20

forum_gpt wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Imagine going after the one set that scales better with less people and promotes solo/smaller scale pvp.

nice try.

It offers the same 1650 Critical Resistance as Impregnable while also giving 300 Weapon & Spell Damage, with the added bonus of working on just one bar. That’s an unfair advantage over other defensive sets that require full-time commitment.

If it were truly a ‘small-scale’ PvP set, it wouldn’t be the default choice for almost every build in Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds. The fact that it dominates both solo and group play just proves how overtuned it is.

Sounds like it's the Oaken Soul build set.

Teeba_Shei · February 20

Renato90085 wrote: »

I think it's just that the other sets are terrible...

...and if everything else is terrible then follow the logic train.... rallying cry is overpowered.

RealLoveBVB · February 20

And there is the next "nerf xy"- thread

Turtle_Bot · February 20

Not going to bother doing the math (again) on this as I did on the last thread that popped up about RC a couple of years ago, but TL//DR, RC is not an overpowered set. It is a strong set, that is at a level of power that every stat set should be aiming for in terms of power vs ease of use, but it is not overpowered.

The sets being compared here are false equivalences. Impreg is a group set, it is designed for group play, RC is a solo set designed for solo (or duo/trio) play. As for groups using RC, maybe ZOS should be looking at why groups are able to stack so many buffs up using so few sets that they end up having room to add RC to their group.

For "being the only viable defensive set" the ONLY set I have seen achieve that status was release Mara's Balm. That set is the only defensive set I have ever seen in this game that was 100% mandatory that literally every single player had to run that set if they wanted to do any PvP during that time. I don't remember any other defensive set reach that level of power (unless I am forgetting/missing something from beta/launch).

The only thing that RC shines in, compared to other defensive sets, is when getting ganked (which RC doesn't help if you get ganked while riding and the set is not proc'd), or if specifically facing a dedicated crit build such as an Aquity build. Outside of those 2 scenarios, most builds are better off running a defensive set more suited to that players playstyle (i.e. a sustain, healing or mitigation set) and/or slotting defensive champion points that have a much broader coverage than rallying cry has.

The only thing that I could see being argued for nerfing Rallying Cry would be as @React and @Alchimiste1 stated, significantly increase the reduction of stats per group member so the sets design as "for solo players only" is much more enforced and the set gives nothing to groups above 4 players that clearly don't need those extra stats, no matter how free they are for comp'd groups.

RaikaNA · February 20

Stop nerfing stuffs... If you wanna nerf something... nerf the ballgroups. They cause lag and server instability.

Major_Mangle · February 20

React wrote: »

The only change that should be made to this set, is that the scaling should be much more harsh with group size than it is now. The concept of stat dense sets to benefit people who are likely going to be at a numbers disadvantage is fine, imo. The stat density of this set is nowhere near as strong as the utility, stats, and dynamics that simply having more players in your group brings.

Have it remove 1/3rd of the stats per additional player in the group.

Solo = 1650 crit resist, 300 WD
Duo = 1100 crit resist, 200 WD
Trio = 550 crit resist, 100 WD
4+ = 0 stats

I'd add a reduction in uptime so there is a small window where you're at least a bit vulnerable to crit damage, but ye otherwise this is the way to do it. I personally think the crit resistance value for solo is a bit over the top but it is what it is.

Vaqual · February 20

The issue with the set is that it can drastically soften burst spikes in a game/meta where some setups are basically only killable through burst, due to near failsafe defensive loops and disengage options. And it does so while granting a full 5-piece bonus' worth of damage and heal scaling WD. All that with easily controllable 100 % uptime.
Is it the best offensive set? No.
Is it the best defensive set? No.
Does it offer enough cumulative offense and defense to make it better than other sets? Yes.
Some people in this thread act like this is the poor and honest solo players' only option at a fair match, but it is really just an overloaded set.

Of course you can prefer global buffs vs pinpoint nerfs and there will likely not ever be a scenario with non-redundant and fully balanced sets, but it doesn't take much to see that this set is a cheap win for those willing to slot it - in a plethora of matchups.

necro_the_crafter · February 20

I think that problem is that we need more backbar 5-piece options. rallying have two five-pece bonuses with the luxury of 100% uptime. Going by that logic:

Clever alch 5 piece bonus to 900 wsd up from 600 wsd, since its uptime is 33%, and single 5-piece is 300 wsd.
Essence thief needs 15 sec uptime with 10 sec cooldown, and also replenish magica as well on proc, more of a QoL adjusment, since this set is already in nice spot. 1-4 bonuses could be changed to wsd and crit as well.
Seventh legion needs 3410 armor instead of 341 health recovery on 5-piece, since ZoS killed health recovery in PvP, and armor is much more desired stat.

Those 3 would be a great start, Im sure there is much more sets that could be brought to the sandart.

pecheckler · February 20

When are you people going to realize Zenimax has no idea how to balance PvP?

If anything, ball groups, AoE pull abilities, and bombers need nerfed.

THAT IS WHERE THE PROBLEM RESIDES!

moo_2021 · February 20

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

The solution is what SkinnyCheeks was proposing a while back - a wholesale re-itemization and re-balance of the game's existing sets by someone actually familiar with the content and how the game is played at a high level.

Do they have any staff playing PvP?

the1andonlyskwex · February 20

Does Rallying Cry stack with itself? In other words, if two people in a group are running Rallying Cry, can one person get buffs from both at the same time?

If so, it definitely needs a nerf (probably just to not stack with itself). If not (which is how I always assumed it worked), it really doesn't seem all that overpowered. Assuming it doesn't stack with itself, the scaling and non-stacking pretty quickly make it really only worth using if you're playing solo or you've coordinated with your team to make sure only 1-2 people are wearing it. Sure, the first instance in a group is top-tier (mostly because it buffs the whole group), but subsequent instances are pretty quickly wasted.