Update 45: won't we see wayshrines on maps anymore... except one per zone ????

Rishikesa108 · February 19

"I think the changes to the Tamriel level of the map will get noticed pretty quickly,” says Lead UI Designer Bobby Weir. “Previously, discovered wayshrines could fill up the map to the point of making it difficult to navigate. We've changed it to only show one wayshrine per zone at that higher level, so hopefully it won't feel like you're fighting with the map anymore when trying to use it."

Sorry English is not my native language... so maybe I've misunderstood. I will not see wayshrines on the map except one per zone ???? And how can I use them if I can't see them??? Please could someone explain me where this is a QOL improvement? I think it is a QOL worsening... I hope I'm wrong !!!!

fizl101 · February 19

you zoom in further, its just they aren't visible at the highest level of the map

Grizzbeorn · February 19

He's talking about the Tamriel level of the map, where currently you can see all discovered wayshrines in all of Tamriel.
The Tamriel level is one level zoomed-out from the individual zones level.
If you use the individual zone level of the map, you will still be able to see all of the wayshrines you have discovered.

Though, I'm hoping the map changes are optional. I like seeing all the wayshrines at the Tamriel level.

Some people (I'm not one of them) use the Tamriel level of the map to travel. And there have been complaints that wayshrines obscure some of the smaller zones at the Tamriel level.

spartaxoxo · February 19

You will only see 1 at this zoom level

If you zoom in, you'll will see more wayshrines

They have also made more changes like filters and adding in names of countries. You can see more information here

https://eso-hub.com/en/news/cleaner-tamriel-map-and-easier-navigation-in-eso-update-45

SeaGtGruff · February 19

This is the first I've heard ahout this, but the first thing I notice is the phrase "the Tamriel level of the map." The way I interpret that, they are referring to the map of Tamriel where you can see all of the zones at once. That map view is already very filled if you have your map filters set to show everything, especially the wayshrines and player houses. In fact, the map is so filled up that it can be difficult to find a spot you can click on to select a zone to zoon in on.

So I think they're saying we'll be seeing just a single wayshrine per zone at that zoom level, but hopefully once we've clicked on a particular zone to view the map at the zone level then everything will be visible (depending on our map filters).

I'd rather see that be a new map filter option that can be set the way each player wants, rather than a change that we have no control over. In fact, I'd love to see player houses get their own filter, because right now I think they're included with the filter for wayshrines. And the Tamriel map can have separate filter settings than the ones for the zone level maps, similar to how Cyrodiil has separate map filter settings depending on whether you're using the standard wayshrines back at your faction's base, or the transitus shrine network, or just pulling up the map to look at it.

IsharaMeradin · February 19

There are multiple levels to the map.
There is the local view which shows the town / city or a sub-zone such as a delve
There is the zone view which shows the zone
There is the continent view (also known as Tamriel) which shows all the zones including nearby islands
There is the universe view (also known as The Aurbis) which shows a smaller Tamriel view and has access points for other off world locations such as Coldharbor and The Deadlands.

Prior to update 45 when looking at the continent view all the discovered wayshrines would be shown. Some zones would be so cluttered that one could accidentally click on a wayshrine when wanting to open up that zone's specific map.
After update 45 the continent view will not show all of the wayshrines, thus allowing those that want to use the map itself to navigate can do so rather than selecting a specific zone from the location list.

Rishikesa108 · February 19

Thank you all. Now I understand correctly.
However, I also understand that the usefulness of this change is really minimal. If the promised QOL are all of this entity... when there would be many other more important improvements to focus on... it is really disappointing.

Ishtarknows · February 19

fizl101 wrote: »

you zoom in further, its just they aren't visible at the highest level of the map

This is a horrible idea. It's worse than being unable to find which skyshards your character needs without going into each zone. one. by. one. zzzzzz. At least I don't do that every day, but this? I know which wayshrine I want from the big map. Having to zoom in is a frustrating idea and I hope it's optional.

Same for houses not appearing. I have a short list of actual favourites that I have selected to make it quick and easy to navigate to. The others I use the map as and when I have need to. Having to use the list will be annoying as I own most of the houses in game.

Edit
This seems as though it's a PC only qol thing. On console we don't click on the map to zoom in, we use left/right triggers to zoom in without actually clicking on a zone so removing clickables (houses, wayshrines) won't make this easier, just gives us less choice from the world map.

SilverBride · February 19

This will be much nicer when trying to open the small island maps, like High Isle.

spartaxoxo · February 19

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

Thank you all. Now I understand correctly.
However, I also understand that the usefulness of this change is really minimal. If the promised QOL are all of this entity... when there would be many other more important improvements to focus on... it is really disappointing.

I mean you can just look at the patch notes and planned updates in April. This isn't even the quarter they promised QOL updates. It is just a nice small surprise QOl update during the dungeon dlc quarter. Instead of making these types of statements, it is best to read everything that's upcoming, and then decide for yourself if it is something worth playing.

valenwood_vegan · February 19

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I'd rather see that be a new map filter option that can be set the way each player wants, rather than a change that we have no control over.

This. Maybe one of these days zos will learn that real QoL often means more options, not forced changes that may make one group happy but annoy another group that liked the previous functionality. While I appreciate the effort to reduce map clutter, it sounds like this will add more clicks / interactions to achieve the same result as before, which is not a welcome change.

Rishikesa108 · February 19

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

Thank you all. Now I understand correctly.
However, I also understand that the usefulness of this change is really minimal. If the promised QOL are all of this entity... when there would be many other more important improvements to focus on... it is really disappointing.

I mean you can just look at the patch notes and planned updates in April. This isn't even the quarter they promised QOL updates. It is just a nice small surprise QOl update during the dungeon dlc quarter. Instead of making these types of statements, it is best to read everything that's upcoming, and then decide for yourself if it is something worth playing.

It would have definitely been a great improvement if a mini-map was added by default to the game. I play on PC, so I use addons, but I think about those who can't have the benefit of addons... How do they move without a mini-map??? That's why I say that QOL should be more significant.

spartaxoxo · February 19

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

Thank you all. Now I understand correctly.
However, I also understand that the usefulness of this change is really minimal. If the promised QOL are all of this entity... when there would be many other more important improvements to focus on... it is really disappointing.

I mean you can just look at the patch notes and planned updates in April. This isn't even the quarter they promised QOL updates. It is just a nice small surprise QOl update during the dungeon dlc quarter. Instead of making these types of statements, it is best to read everything that's upcoming, and then decide for yourself if it is something worth playing.

It would have definitely been a great improvement if a mini-map was added by default to the game. I play on PC, so I use addons, but I think about those who can't have the benefit of addons... How do they move without a mini-map??? That's why I say that QOL should be more significant.

Console is literally getting add-ons later. This is why it is good to check announcements

LootAllTheStuff · February 19

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

Thank you all. Now I understand correctly.
However, I also understand that the usefulness of this change is really minimal. If the promised QOL are all of this entity... when there would be many other more important improvements to focus on... it is really disappointing.

I mean you can just look at the patch notes and planned updates in April. This isn't even the quarter they promised QOL updates. It is just a nice small surprise QOl update during the dungeon dlc quarter. Instead of making these types of statements, it is best to read everything that's upcoming, and then decide for yourself if it is something worth playing.

It would have definitely been a great improvement if a mini-map was added by default to the game. I play on PC, so I use addons, but I think about those who can't have the benefit of addons... How do they move without a mini-map??? That's why I say that QOL should be more significant.

How do we move? A combination of LS+RS usually...

Joking aside, mostly by taking note of discovered marked locations, compass points, and the custom waypoint marker. I've played enough games that have and do not have a minimap to have gotten used to it. Big cities are a pain, though, until you've learned the layout - keep having to stop, pop the map, and then go again. I just started Southern Elsweyr, and was surprised by the size of Senchal - getting used to that is going to take a bit.

Northwold · February 19

Don't see the problem with this. The problem became hilariously clear with High Isle and the later DLC when it was almost impossible to click on the island.

Rishikesa108 · February 19

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

Thank you all. Now I understand correctly.
However, I also understand that the usefulness of this change is really minimal. If the promised QOL are all of this entity... when there would be many other more important improvements to focus on... it is really disappointing.

I mean you can just look at the patch notes and planned updates in April. This isn't even the quarter they promised QOL updates. It is just a nice small surprise QOl update during the dungeon dlc quarter. Instead of making these types of statements, it is best to read everything that's upcoming, and then decide for yourself if it is something worth playing.

It would have definitely been a great improvement if a mini-map was added by default to the game. I play on PC, so I use addons, but I think about those who can't have the benefit of addons... How do they move without a mini-map??? That's why I say that QOL should be more significant.

Console is literally getting add-ons later. This is why it is good to check announcements

And so you prefer that this game will always rely on addons, rather than be complete and sufficient in itself? bad, very bad. The more the game can do without addons, especially the main and indispensable ones, the better it will be. Both for the stability of the game, for the lag, for the loading speed and, last but not least, so that the developers hired are the ones in charge of making the game work, not external developers who, however good, can always go away and leave their addon inactive and unupdated.
Please, try to glimpse the meaning that one wants to put in their posts, rather than always trying to contradict always and in any case

spartaxoxo · February 19

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

Thank you all. Now I understand correctly.
However, I also understand that the usefulness of this change is really minimal. If the promised QOL are all of this entity... when there would be many other more important improvements to focus on... it is really disappointing.

I mean you can just look at the patch notes and planned updates in April. This isn't even the quarter they promised QOL updates. It is just a nice small surprise QOl update during the dungeon dlc quarter. Instead of making these types of statements, it is best to read everything that's upcoming, and then decide for yourself if it is something worth playing.

It would have definitely been a great improvement if a mini-map was added by default to the game. I play on PC, so I use addons, but I think about those who can't have the benefit of addons... How do they move without a mini-map??? That's why I say that QOL should be more significant.

Console is literally getting add-ons later. This is why it is good to check announcements

And so you prefer that this game will always rely on addons, rather than be complete and sufficient in itself? bad, very bad. The more the game can do without addons, especially the main and indispensable ones, the better it will be. Both for the stability of the game, for the lag, for the loading speed and, last but not least, so that the developers hired are the ones in charge of making the game work, not external developers who, however good, can always go away and leave their addon inactive and unupdated.
Please, try to glimpse the meaning that one wants to put in their posts, rather than always trying to contradict always and in any case

I'm not a mind reader. Your post was that PC has a number of features that should be made base game specifically because console doesn't get to use them since they don't have add-ons. And I pointed out a nice QOL change that was announced for console, which is the introduction of add-ons.

I don't think the game should only rely on add-ons. But I'm certainly glad they are working on giving us that rather than an mini map. I would consider it a more important QOL change.

I don't mind the lack of mini map, personally. I'm not being contrary. It's just I am happy with the QOL changes and content updates that they have announced as upcoming this year and beyond.

I'm cautiously optimistic about add ons. I'm excited for harder overland. I'm excited for adventure zones. If those things aren't interesting to you, that's fair enough. We don't have to be excited for the same things.

katanagirl1 · February 20

I’m not sure I like this. I use wayshrines at a high level on the map because I don’t need to zoom into that zone to know where they are. I’ll have to see how it works, but I also think other changes would have be better, you know the ones we asked for, than those we did not ask for.

Rishikesa108 · February 20

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I’m not sure I like this. I use wayshrines at a high level on the map because I don’t need to zoom into that zone to know where they are. I’ll have to see how it works, but I also think other changes would have be better, you know the ones we asked for, than those we did not ask for.

Perfectly agree

Kittytravel · February 20

1. Addons will forever be in MMO's. It doesn't matter what the developers do; addons cater to individual playstyles and preferences. I for one don't use a minimap nor do I want one. I use it in other games; but I've played Elder Scrolls games for so long that using one in ESO feels off putting and weird to me. Even games that go out of their way to disapprove of addons (ff14) still have them in spades. But in contrast I have addons that change the shape of my Tamriel map to better reflect the expected geography and topography of the world, which I would immediately agree most other players would absolutely not care about.

2. This will add maybe one extra step to teleporting to your preferred wayshrine; you just have to click the zone on the map now and then click the wayshrine. But I'd very much agree that the average player was extraordinarily overwhelmed with this view of their world map.

Obviously I have extra options enabled but this still gets the point across.

DenverRalphy · February 20

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I’m not sure I like this. I use wayshrines at a high level on the map because I don’t need to zoom into that zone to know where they are. I’ll have to see how it works, but I also think other changes would have be better, you know the ones we asked for, than those we did not ask for.

I may be remembering incorrectly, but I seem to recall during the demonstration that the map only showing capital city wayshrines was only when zoomed all the way out at the Tamriel level of the map. But zoom in just a fraction (still at the Tamriel level) and the other wayshrines populate as well, but the dungeons/trials/houses were still gone and you had to actually go to the specific zone level to see those.

And if that is correct, then that's absolutely fine by me.

SilverBride · February 20

Kittytravel wrote: »

This will add maybe one extra step to teleporting to your preferred wayshrine; you just have to click the zone on the map now and then click the wayshrine.

That is how I've always done it. I open the zone, see which wayshrine is closest to where I'm going, then click it. Especially when I'm running around gathering surveys or maps. I need to see where they are so I know where to teleport to.

The way it is now, it's almost impossible to open High Isle and other small zones because all we see is a big blob of wayshrines.

katanagirl1 · February 20

DenverRalphy wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I’m not sure I like this. I use wayshrines at a high level on the map because I don’t need to zoom into that zone to know where they are. I’ll have to see how it works, but I also think other changes would have be better, you know the ones we asked for, than those we did not ask for.

I may be remembering incorrectly, but I seem to recall during the demonstration that the map only showing capital city wayshrines was only when zoomed all the way out at the Tamriel level of the map. But zoom in just a fraction (still at the Tamriel level) and the other wayshrines populate as well, but the dungeons/trials/houses were still gone and you had to actually go to the specific zone level to see those.

And if that is correct, then that's absolutely fine by me.

Hopefully it will be fine. Still, lots of other things they could have worked on that wouldn’t be as questionable in my opinion. It wasn’t broke in my opinion.

Ishtarknows · February 20

SilverBride wrote: »

The way it is now, it's almost impossible to open High Isle and other small zones because all we see is a big blob of wayshrines.

High Isle and Galen I agree are a mess of Wayshrines, but they could have been fixed without ruining the rest of the map.

Northwold · February 20

katanagirl1 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I’m not sure I like this. I use wayshrines at a high level on the map because I don’t need to zoom into that zone to know where they are. I’ll have to see how it works, but I also think other changes would have be better, you know the ones we asked for, than those we did not ask for.

I may be remembering incorrectly, but I seem to recall during the demonstration that the map only showing capital city wayshrines was only when zoomed all the way out at the Tamriel level of the map. But zoom in just a fraction (still at the Tamriel level) and the other wayshrines populate as well, but the dungeons/trials/houses were still gone and you had to actually go to the specific zone level to see those.

And if that is correct, then that's absolutely fine by me.

Hopefully it will be fine. Still, lots of other things they could have worked on that wouldn’t be as questionable in my opinion. It wasn’t broke in my opinion.

But it *was* broke because you couldn't click on High Isle and with many of the zones in the centre you essentially couldn't see where one ended and the next began because they were covered in wayshrines. It needed to be fixed and makes virtually no difference to map usage for presumably the vast majority of players except that the map will be significantly easier to use.

I don't know if the appearance is different depending on the resolution people play at, but it really was a problem. Indeed, for High Isle specifically it was such an issue it attracted a number of threads here at the time and responses from ZOS that they would try to do something about it.

They're going to add the names of the zones to the map at a certain zoom level, too.

katanagirl1 · February 21

Northwold wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I’m not sure I like this. I use wayshrines at a high level on the map because I don’t need to zoom into that zone to know where they are. I’ll have to see how it works, but I also think other changes would have be better, you know the ones we asked for, than those we did not ask for.

I may be remembering incorrectly, but I seem to recall during the demonstration that the map only showing capital city wayshrines was only when zoomed all the way out at the Tamriel level of the map. But zoom in just a fraction (still at the Tamriel level) and the other wayshrines populate as well, but the dungeons/trials/houses were still gone and you had to actually go to the specific zone level to see those.

And if that is correct, then that's absolutely fine by me.

Hopefully it will be fine. Still, lots of other things they could have worked on that wouldn’t be as questionable in my opinion. It wasn’t broke in my opinion.

But it *was* broke because you couldn't click on High Isle and with many of the zones in the centre you essentially couldn't see where one ended and the next began because they were covered in wayshrines. It needed to be fixed and makes virtually no difference to map usage for presumably the vast majority of players except that the map will be significantly easier to use.

I don't know if the appearance is different depending on the resolution people play at, but it really was a problem. Indeed, for High Isle specifically it was such an issue it attracted a number of threads here at the time and responses from ZOS that they would try to do something about it.

They're going to add the names of the zones to the map at a certain zoom level, too.

I never had a problem with either of those islands, Galen was at the top and High Isle below. I did have to click and zoom in on those zones to see the wayshrines but I think that was it.

The real problem is making a full sized zone from an island that was so tiny.

Now that I looked more closely in game I am a little concerned with this. There is the Aurbis map showing Tamriel and the Daedric areas, then there is the full Tamriel map. That one is usually where I click on wayshrines within zones without zooming in. So I might only see one per zone there.

Ishtarknows · February 21

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I never had a problem with either of those islands, Galen was at the top and High Isle below. I did have to click and zoom in on those zones to see the wayshrines but I think that was it.

As I remember it you play on console Katanagirl?
We use the controller triggers to navigate the map - press and hold one trigger to zoom in and press and hold the other to zoom out. This press and hold takes a couple of seconds to go from the big Tamriel map to a zone, then again into the zone. It's not just a single click like it is for PC and it's why Galen etc weren't such a big deal for controller users.

This new "QOL" just means more time spent pressing and holding triggers instead of travelling which doesn't sound like an improvement to me. Did they test this in controller mode at all?

katanagirl1 · February 21

Ishtarknows wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I never had a problem with either of those islands, Galen was at the top and High Isle below. I did have to click and zoom in on those zones to see the wayshrines but I think that was it.

As I remember it you play on console Katanagirl?
We use the controller triggers to navigate the map - press and hold one trigger to zoom in and press and hold the other to zoom out. This press and hold takes a couple of seconds to go from the big Tamriel map to a zone, then again into the zone. It's not just a single click like it is for PC and it's why Galen etc weren't such a big deal for controller users.

This new "QOL" just means more time spent pressing and holding triggers instead of travelling which doesn't sound like an improvement to me. Did they test this in controller mode at all?

You can just hold the trigger but I think a click works the same. Hard to say though, you don’t think about it, you just do it from muscle memory.

Don’t PC users have some list of zones they can click on too? I thought that was their preferred method.

SilverBride · February 21

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Don’t PC users have some list of zones they can click on too? I thought that was their preferred method.

We do but that has never been my preferred method. I always open the map then click on the zone I want to travel to. Then I choose the wayshrine closest to where I want to go.

I prefer to see where I am going on the map rather than just a list of locations.

wolfie1.0. · February 21

What I want to know is how bad this change is going to break my favorite map addons...

😀

twisttop138 · February 21

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

Thank you all. Now I understand correctly.
However, I also understand that the usefulness of this change is really minimal. If the promised QOL are all of this entity... when there would be many other more important improvements to focus on... it is really disappointing.

I mean you can just look at the patch notes and planned updates in April. This isn't even the quarter they promised QOL updates. It is just a nice small surprise QOl update during the dungeon dlc quarter. Instead of making these types of statements, it is best to read everything that's upcoming, and then decide for yourself if it is something worth playing.

It would have definitely been a great improvement if a mini-map was added by default to the game. I play on PC, so I use addons, but I think about those who can't have the benefit of addons... How do they move without a mini-map??? That's why I say that QOL should be more significant.

Console is literally getting add-ons later. This is why it is good to check announcements

While I wholeheartedly agree with your point about announcements, it might be worth noting that while the ability to use add-ons will soon be with us console plebs (a change I sincerely am happy about) this doesn't mean that mini map or any others will actually be made. I very much hope they are for sure, but the burden is on the addon makers to develop them for console. Since the op mentioned QoL changes, I really wish they would make these things native to the base game instead of relying on outside sources.