Why not try template character format for PvE too while forcing PvP players to do same?

LPapirius · February 4

I'd like to see the impact of changing PvE to template only skills at the same time this is being done to PvP areas of the game. It's only fair that the entire game, all players, experience the same test in order to gather feedback and information on the system. It's only one week after all. May as well put the entire game under the same parameters and see how it goes. It's more fair this way and then every player will be able to experience the system and give feedback regarding the system. Just think how good performance over the entire game would be! ....and just think what it would be like if everyone was forced to play the same game. (yes, a template only system is essentially a different game with the same background scenery. And if they're going to implement the template system for PvP, then it should go active for everyone in every zone as well at the same time so everyone is playing the same game with the same limitations)

Erickson9610 · February 4

LPapirius wrote: »

I'd like to see the impact of changing PvE to template only skills at the same time this is being to PvP areas of the game. It's only fair that the entire game, all players, experience the same test in order to gather feedback and information on the system. It's only one week after all. May as well put the entire game under the same peramaters and see how it goes. It's more fair this way and then every player will be able to experience the system and give feedback regarding the system. Just think how good performance over the entire game would be!

The system is meant to test Cyrodiil performance when all of the calculations are minimized as much as possible. It's more than just reducing the ability and set toolkit; it's also reducing calculations for Emperor, Siege Weaponry, Quests, and so on in the Cyrodiil zone.

The test wouldn't help PvE because the lag in PvE is not as severe as it is in PvP, mainly due to the population cap enforced by each PvE instance. And again, the test isn't about trying to balance the game around a templated toolkit — those skills aren't going to become permanent for PvP, anyway.

LPapirius · February 4

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

I'd like to see the impact of changing PvE to template only skills at the same time this is being to PvP areas of the game. It's only fair that the entire game, all players, experience the same test in order to gather feedback and information on the system. It's only one week after all. May as well put the entire game under the same peramaters and see how it goes. It's more fair this way and then every player will be able to experience the system and give feedback regarding the system. Just think how good performance over the entire game would be!

The system is meant to test Cyrodiil performance when all of the calculations are minimized as much as possible. It's more than just reducing the ability and set toolkit; it's also reducing calculations for Emperor, Siege Weaponry, Quests, and so on in the Cyrodiil zone.

The test wouldn't help PvE because the lag in PvE is not as severe as it is in PvP, mainly due to the population cap enforced by each PvE instance. And again, the test isn't about trying to balance the game around a templated toolkit — those skills aren't going to become permanent for PvP, anyway.

You're guessing/assuming the template system will not become permanent and the only option in PvP.

Taril · February 4

LPapirius wrote: »

I'd like to see the impact of changing PvE to template only skills at the same time this is being done to PvP areas of the game. It's only fair that the entire game, all players, experience the same test in order to gather feedback and information on the system.

What do you mean "Fair"

Cyro players complained about performance in Cyro. Now they're testing performance in Cyro.

How is it "Unfair" that Cyro players are getting their Cyro performance tests in Cyro like they've been asking for?

What use is testing people not in Cyro when the test relates directly to performance in Cyro?

LPapirius wrote: »

And if they're going to implement the template system for PvP, then it should go active for everyone in every zone as well at the same time so everyone is playing the same game with the same limitations

They're not "Implementing the template system for PvP"

It's a test. They're testing. They're reducing the game down to its functional base so they can try to find the root of the performance issues in Cyro.

This isn't a new design goal, this is simply a fault finding excersise. Where they're removing all systems that might be the culprit so they can test each system individually by reintroducing them one at a time.

They're not aiming to keep this template build around. It's simply part of the testing procedure.

tomofhyrule · February 4

I have a sneaking suspicion this post has nothing to do with trying to improve performance in PvE and is mostly another complaining-about-Vengeance post.

First: it’s not all PvP areas of the game. It is specifically Cyrodiil. IC and BGs are not affected by the test.

Second: the devs have said numerous times that they’re not going to make ‘template PvP’ as the goal. This test is specifically to be a stress test to see how many people can be in Cyrodiil at once.

Third: if the test goes well, then the devs know that performance is related to the number of calculations. The next steps then would be to introduce things a bit at a time to see how to keep large numbers in Cyrodiil while still keeping ESO’s heart. If the test fails, the devs know that proc sets and all the skills are not the source of Cyrodiil lag. Either way, the next steps will depend on the results of this one.

Fourth: they have talked about Vengeance in the PTS patch notes, an impromptu Q&A stream, and have just released a written Q&A as well. If anyone hasn’t watched the VOD for the impromptu stream, I would definitely suggest doing so as it did a lot to make people feel better about the goals and was excellent communication.
By the way, the VOD is here: and the written Q&A is here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/672867/cyrodiil-champions-live-test-community-q-a#latest

If you don’t like the idea of a test to try to help PvP, you are also free to not enter Cyrodiil during that test. I’m sure there are many people who will refuse to test this in the hopes that these tests devs will just stop trying to fix PvP and just sunset it completely so they can focus exclusively on PvE, so you would probably not be alone in sitting out of the Vengeance campaign.

Soarora · February 4

LPapirius wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

I'd like to see the impact of changing PvE to template only skills at the same time this is being to PvP areas of the game. It's only fair that the entire game, all players, experience the same test in order to gather feedback and information on the system. It's only one week after all. May as well put the entire game under the same peramaters and see how it goes. It's more fair this way and then every player will be able to experience the system and give feedback regarding the system. Just think how good performance over the entire game would be!

The system is meant to test Cyrodiil performance when all of the calculations are minimized as much as possible. It's more than just reducing the ability and set toolkit; it's also reducing calculations for Emperor, Siege Weaponry, Quests, and so on in the Cyrodiil zone.

The test wouldn't help PvE because the lag in PvE is not as severe as it is in PvP, mainly due to the population cap enforced by each PvE instance. And again, the test isn't about trying to balance the game around a templated toolkit — those skills aren't going to become permanent for PvP, anyway.

You're guessing/assuming the template system will not become permanent and the only option in PvP.

ZOS is trying really hard to make it very clear that it will not become permanent, at least not anywhere close to the state this first test is in. I’ve never seen them communicate so much about anything, I think its time to give them the benefit of the doubt about this.

LPapirius · February 4

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I have a sneaking suspicion this post has nothing to do with trying to improve performance in PvE and is mostly another complaining-about-Vengeance post.

First: it’s not all PvP areas of the game. It is specifically Cyrodiil. IC and BGs are not affected by the test.

Second: the devs have said numerous times that they’re not going to make ‘template PvP’ as the goal. This test is specifically to be a stress test to see how many people can be in Cyrodiil at once.

Third: if the test goes well, then the devs know that performance is related to the number of calculations. The next steps then would be to introduce things a bit at a time to see how to keep large numbers in Cyrodiil while still keeping ESO’s heart. If the test fails, the devs know that proc sets and all the skills are not the source of Cyrodiil lag. Either way, the next steps will depend on the results of this one.

Fourth: they have talked about Vengeance in the PTS patch notes, an impromptu Q&A stream, and have just released a written Q&A as well. If anyone hasn’t watched the VOD for the impromptu stream, I would definitely suggest doing so as it did a lot to make people feel better about the goals and was excellent communication.
By the way, the VOD is here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2362374320 and the written Q&A is here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/672867/cyrodiil-champions-live-test-community-q-a#latest

If you don’t like the idea of a test to try to help PvP, you are also free to not enter Cyrodiil during that test. I’m sure there are many people who will refuse to test this in the hopes that these tests devs will just stop trying to fix PvP and just sunset it completely so they can focus exclusively on PvE, so you would probably not be alone in sitting out of the Vengeance campaign.

Vet trials and end game PvE suffers from the same performance issues as Cyrodiil does.

Erickson9610 · February 4

LPapirius wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I have a sneaking suspicion this post has nothing to do with trying to improve performance in PvE and is mostly another complaining-about-Vengeance post.

First: it’s not all PvP areas of the game. It is specifically Cyrodiil. IC and BGs are not affected by the test.

Second: the devs have said numerous times that they’re not going to make ‘template PvP’ as the goal. This test is specifically to be a stress test to see how many people can be in Cyrodiil at once.

Third: if the test goes well, then the devs know that performance is related to the number of calculations. The next steps then would be to introduce things a bit at a time to see how to keep large numbers in Cyrodiil while still keeping ESO’s heart. If the test fails, the devs know that proc sets and all the skills are not the source of Cyrodiil lag. Either way, the next steps will depend on the results of this one.

Fourth: they have talked about Vengeance in the PTS patch notes, an impromptu Q&A stream, and have just released a written Q&A as well. If anyone hasn’t watched the VOD for the impromptu stream, I would definitely suggest doing so as it did a lot to make people feel better about the goals and was excellent communication.
By the way, the VOD is here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2362374320 and the written Q&A is here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/672867/cyrodiil-champions-live-test-community-q-a#latest

If you don’t like the idea of a test to try to help PvP, you are also free to not enter Cyrodiil during that test. I’m sure there are many people who will refuse to test this in the hopes that these tests devs will just stop trying to fix PvP and just sunset it completely so they can focus exclusively on PvE, so you would probably not be alone in sitting out of the Vengeance campaign.

Vet trials and end game PvE suffers from the same performance issues as Cyrodiil does.

Look at it this way: the goal of this test is to increase the population cap in Cyrodiil.

This doesn't apply to veteran trials because the population cap is always 12.

LPapirius · February 4

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I have a sneaking suspicion this post has nothing to do with trying to improve performance in PvE and is mostly another complaining-about-Vengeance post.

First: it’s not all PvP areas of the game. It is specifically Cyrodiil. IC and BGs are not affected by the test.

Second: the devs have said numerous times that they’re not going to make ‘template PvP’ as the goal. This test is specifically to be a stress test to see how many people can be in Cyrodiil at once.

Third: if the test goes well, then the devs know that performance is related to the number of calculations. The next steps then would be to introduce things a bit at a time to see how to keep large numbers in Cyrodiil while still keeping ESO’s heart. If the test fails, the devs know that proc sets and all the skills are not the source of Cyrodiil lag. Either way, the next steps will depend on the results of this one.

Fourth: they have talked about Vengeance in the PTS patch notes, an impromptu Q&A stream, and have just released a written Q&A as well. If anyone hasn’t watched the VOD for the impromptu stream, I would definitely suggest doing so as it did a lot to make people feel better about the goals and was excellent communication.
By the way, the VOD is here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2362374320 and the written Q&A is here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/672867/cyrodiil-champions-live-test-community-q-a#latest

If you don’t like the idea of a test to try to help PvP, you are also free to not enter Cyrodiil during that test. I’m sure there are many people who will refuse to test this in the hopes that these tests devs will just stop trying to fix PvP and just sunset it completely so they can focus exclusively on PvE, so you would probably not be alone in sitting out of the Vengeance campaign.

Vet trials and end game PvE suffers from the same performance issues as Cyrodiil does.

Look at it this way: the goal of this test is to increase the population cap in Cyrodiil.

This doesn't apply to veteran trials because the population cap is always 12.

So you're asserting that the problem is not population related. It's calculation related. (as most of us think is the root of the problem) That's why the template system should be implemented game wide and not just for PvP.

TaSheen · February 4

No. Just no. Quickest way to kill the game....

Erickson9610 · February 4

LPapirius wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I have a sneaking suspicion this post has nothing to do with trying to improve performance in PvE and is mostly another complaining-about-Vengeance post.

First: it’s not all PvP areas of the game. It is specifically Cyrodiil. IC and BGs are not affected by the test.

Second: the devs have said numerous times that they’re not going to make ‘template PvP’ as the goal. This test is specifically to be a stress test to see how many people can be in Cyrodiil at once.

Third: if the test goes well, then the devs know that performance is related to the number of calculations. The next steps then would be to introduce things a bit at a time to see how to keep large numbers in Cyrodiil while still keeping ESO’s heart. If the test fails, the devs know that proc sets and all the skills are not the source of Cyrodiil lag. Either way, the next steps will depend on the results of this one.

Fourth: they have talked about Vengeance in the PTS patch notes, an impromptu Q&A stream, and have just released a written Q&A as well. If anyone hasn’t watched the VOD for the impromptu stream, I would definitely suggest doing so as it did a lot to make people feel better about the goals and was excellent communication.
By the way, the VOD is here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2362374320 and the written Q&A is here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/672867/cyrodiil-champions-live-test-community-q-a#latest

If you don’t like the idea of a test to try to help PvP, you are also free to not enter Cyrodiil during that test. I’m sure there are many people who will refuse to test this in the hopes that these tests devs will just stop trying to fix PvP and just sunset it completely so they can focus exclusively on PvE, so you would probably not be alone in sitting out of the Vengeance campaign.

Vet trials and end game PvE suffers from the same performance issues as Cyrodiil does.

Look at it this way: the goal of this test is to increase the population cap in Cyrodiil.

This doesn't apply to veteran trials because the population cap is always 12.

So you're asserting that the problem is not population related. It's calculation related. (as most of us think is the root of the problem) That's why the template system should be implemented game wide and not just for PvP.

The problem is population and calculation related. That's why the test is happening in Cyrodiil and not in veteran trials or overworld.

More people mean there will be more calculations from abilities. Most people in the overworld PvE zones aren't constantly fighting one another, and even if they were, the PvE zones can be split into different instances to divide the population evenly. This doesn't happen with Cyrodiil because players expect to enter the same instance as everyone else in any given campaign.

The test would accomplish nothing in PvE, and it might actually make most veteran content impossible to clear if it were implemented.

VoxAdActa · February 4

"Fix PVP!"

"Ok, let's run some tests—"

"NO TESTS! JUST FIX!"

DenverRalphy · February 4

LPapirius wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I have a sneaking suspicion this post has nothing to do with trying to improve performance in PvE and is mostly another complaining-about-Vengeance post.

First: it’s not all PvP areas of the game. It is specifically Cyrodiil. IC and BGs are not affected by the test.

Second: the devs have said numerous times that they’re not going to make ‘template PvP’ as the goal. This test is specifically to be a stress test to see how many people can be in Cyrodiil at once.

Third: if the test goes well, then the devs know that performance is related to the number of calculations. The next steps then would be to introduce things a bit at a time to see how to keep large numbers in Cyrodiil while still keeping ESO’s heart. If the test fails, the devs know that proc sets and all the skills are not the source of Cyrodiil lag. Either way, the next steps will depend on the results of this one.

Fourth: they have talked about Vengeance in the PTS patch notes, an impromptu Q&A stream, and have just released a written Q&A as well. If anyone hasn’t watched the VOD for the impromptu stream, I would definitely suggest doing so as it did a lot to make people feel better about the goals and was excellent communication.
By the way, the VOD is here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2362374320 and the written Q&A is here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/672867/cyrodiil-champions-live-test-community-q-a#latest

If you don’t like the idea of a test to try to help PvP, you are also free to not enter Cyrodiil during that test. I’m sure there are many people who will refuse to test this in the hopes that these tests devs will just stop trying to fix PvP and just sunset it completely so they can focus exclusively on PvE, so you would probably not be alone in sitting out of the Vengeance campaign.

Vet trials and end game PvE suffers from the same performance issues as Cyrodiil does.

Look at it this way: the goal of this test is to increase the population cap in Cyrodiil.

This doesn't apply to veteran trials because the population cap is always 12.

So you're asserting that the problem is not population related. It's calculation related. (as most of us think is the root of the problem) That's why the template system should be implemented game wide and not just for PvP.

Doesn't matter. That's the focus of the test, and ZOS has been very straightforward about it.

LPapirius · February 4

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I have a sneaking suspicion this post has nothing to do with trying to improve performance in PvE and is mostly another complaining-about-Vengeance post.

First: it’s not all PvP areas of the game. It is specifically Cyrodiil. IC and BGs are not affected by the test.

Second: the devs have said numerous times that they’re not going to make ‘template PvP’ as the goal. This test is specifically to be a stress test to see how many people can be in Cyrodiil at once.

Third: if the test goes well, then the devs know that performance is related to the number of calculations. The next steps then would be to introduce things a bit at a time to see how to keep large numbers in Cyrodiil while still keeping ESO’s heart. If the test fails, the devs know that proc sets and all the skills are not the source of Cyrodiil lag. Either way, the next steps will depend on the results of this one.

Fourth: they have talked about Vengeance in the PTS patch notes, an impromptu Q&A stream, and have just released a written Q&A as well. If anyone hasn’t watched the VOD for the impromptu stream, I would definitely suggest doing so as it did a lot to make people feel better about the goals and was excellent communication.
By the way, the VOD is here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2362374320 and the written Q&A is here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/672867/cyrodiil-champions-live-test-community-q-a#latest

If you don’t like the idea of a test to try to help PvP, you are also free to not enter Cyrodiil during that test. I’m sure there are many people who will refuse to test this in the hopes that these tests devs will just stop trying to fix PvP and just sunset it completely so they can focus exclusively on PvE, so you would probably not be alone in sitting out of the Vengeance campaign.

Vet trials and end game PvE suffers from the same performance issues as Cyrodiil does.

Look at it this way: the goal of this test is to increase the population cap in Cyrodiil.

This doesn't apply to veteran trials because the population cap is always 12.

So you're asserting that the problem is not population related. It's calculation related. (as most of us think is the root of the problem) That's why the template system should be implemented game wide and not just for PvP.

The problem is population and calculation related. That's why the test is happening in Cyrodiil and not in veteran trials or overworld.

More people mean there will be more calculations from abilities. Most people in the overworld PvE zones aren't constantly fighting one another, and even if they were, the PvE zones can be split into different instances to divide the population evenly. This doesn't happen with Cyrodiil because players expect to enter the same instance as everyone else in any given campaign.

The test would accomplish nothing in PvE, and it might actually make most veteran content impossible to clear if it were implemented.

Vet trials and end game PvE suffers from the same performance issues as Cyrodiil does with only 12 players in the group/instance.

Erickson9610 · February 4

LPapirius wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I have a sneaking suspicion this post has nothing to do with trying to improve performance in PvE and is mostly another complaining-about-Vengeance post.

First: it’s not all PvP areas of the game. It is specifically Cyrodiil. IC and BGs are not affected by the test.

Second: the devs have said numerous times that they’re not going to make ‘template PvP’ as the goal. This test is specifically to be a stress test to see how many people can be in Cyrodiil at once.

Third: if the test goes well, then the devs know that performance is related to the number of calculations. The next steps then would be to introduce things a bit at a time to see how to keep large numbers in Cyrodiil while still keeping ESO’s heart. If the test fails, the devs know that proc sets and all the skills are not the source of Cyrodiil lag. Either way, the next steps will depend on the results of this one.

Fourth: they have talked about Vengeance in the PTS patch notes, an impromptu Q&A stream, and have just released a written Q&A as well. If anyone hasn’t watched the VOD for the impromptu stream, I would definitely suggest doing so as it did a lot to make people feel better about the goals and was excellent communication.
By the way, the VOD is here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2362374320 and the written Q&A is here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/672867/cyrodiil-champions-live-test-community-q-a#latest

If you don’t like the idea of a test to try to help PvP, you are also free to not enter Cyrodiil during that test. I’m sure there are many people who will refuse to test this in the hopes that these tests devs will just stop trying to fix PvP and just sunset it completely so they can focus exclusively on PvE, so you would probably not be alone in sitting out of the Vengeance campaign.

Vet trials and end game PvE suffers from the same performance issues as Cyrodiil does.

Look at it this way: the goal of this test is to increase the population cap in Cyrodiil.

This doesn't apply to veteran trials because the population cap is always 12.

So you're asserting that the problem is not population related. It's calculation related. (as most of us think is the root of the problem) That's why the template system should be implemented game wide and not just for PvP.

The problem is population and calculation related. That's why the test is happening in Cyrodiil and not in veteran trials or overworld.

More people mean there will be more calculations from abilities. Most people in the overworld PvE zones aren't constantly fighting one another, and even if they were, the PvE zones can be split into different instances to divide the population evenly. This doesn't happen with Cyrodiil because players expect to enter the same instance as everyone else in any given campaign.

The test would accomplish nothing in PvE, and it might actually make most veteran content impossible to clear if it were implemented.

Vet trials and end game PvE suffers from the same performance issues as Cyrodiil does with only 12 players in the group.

It's not as severe as in Cyrodiil.

LPapirius · February 4

TaSheen wrote: »

No. Just no. Quickest way to kill the game....

But you think it's OK to implement this template system for Cyrodiil?

joergino · February 4

For a week? Why not?

Ingenon · February 4

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I have a sneaking suspicion this post has nothing to do with trying to improve performance in PvE and is mostly another complaining-about-Vengeance post.

^ This, 100%. At least that is what I am reading.

sarahthes · February 4

LPapirius wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I have a sneaking suspicion this post has nothing to do with trying to improve performance in PvE and is mostly another complaining-about-Vengeance post.

First: it’s not all PvP areas of the game. It is specifically Cyrodiil. IC and BGs are not affected by the test.

Second: the devs have said numerous times that they’re not going to make ‘template PvP’ as the goal. This test is specifically to be a stress test to see how many people can be in Cyrodiil at once.

Third: if the test goes well, then the devs know that performance is related to the number of calculations. The next steps then would be to introduce things a bit at a time to see how to keep large numbers in Cyrodiil while still keeping ESO’s heart. If the test fails, the devs know that proc sets and all the skills are not the source of Cyrodiil lag. Either way, the next steps will depend on the results of this one.

Fourth: they have talked about Vengeance in the PTS patch notes, an impromptu Q&A stream, and have just released a written Q&A as well. If anyone hasn’t watched the VOD for the impromptu stream, I would definitely suggest doing so as it did a lot to make people feel better about the goals and was excellent communication.
By the way, the VOD is here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2362374320 and the written Q&A is here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/672867/cyrodiil-champions-live-test-community-q-a#latest

If you don’t like the idea of a test to try to help PvP, you are also free to not enter Cyrodiil during that test. I’m sure there are many people who will refuse to test this in the hopes that these tests devs will just stop trying to fix PvP and just sunset it completely so they can focus exclusively on PvE, so you would probably not be alone in sitting out of the Vengeance campaign.

Vet trials and end game PvE suffers from the same performance issues as Cyrodiil does.

It's not nearly as bad and a lot of it is directly related to client side issues or the server itself being hit by malicious behaviour.

Anyone who has raided for a long time knows that performance issues, crashes, etc tend to be limited to specific people 90% of the time. I actually used to be one of them, my issues went away when I got a new PC. But I was that person crashing after every pull for a while. 80-90% of PvE crashes in my experience are caused by hardware, software, or add-on conflicts. Rubberbanding and lagging out is usually server side, affects multiple people at the same time ("did anyone else just lag hard?"), and much less frequent than the forums would have you believe.

Maitsukas · February 4

If it were applied to Trials for example, how easy do you think it would be to complete nKA with all Normal-quality (White) gear, with no traits, no proc sets, no Mundus, no CP, no passives, only Class skills, templatized stats for all players & the same infinite potions as in the Vengeance campaign?

tomofhyrule · February 4

LPapirius wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I have a sneaking suspicion this post has nothing to do with trying to improve performance in PvE and is mostly another complaining-about-Vengeance post.

First: it’s not all PvP areas of the game. It is specifically Cyrodiil. IC and BGs are not affected by the test.

Second: the devs have said numerous times that they’re not going to make ‘template PvP’ as the goal. This test is specifically to be a stress test to see how many people can be in Cyrodiil at once.

Third: if the test goes well, then the devs know that performance is related to the number of calculations. The next steps then would be to introduce things a bit at a time to see how to keep large numbers in Cyrodiil while still keeping ESO’s heart. If the test fails, the devs know that proc sets and all the skills are not the source of Cyrodiil lag. Either way, the next steps will depend on the results of this one.

Fourth: they have talked about Vengeance in the PTS patch notes, an impromptu Q&A stream, and have just released a written Q&A as well. If anyone hasn’t watched the VOD for the impromptu stream, I would definitely suggest doing so as it did a lot to make people feel better about the goals and was excellent communication.
By the way, the VOD is here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2362374320 and the written Q&A is here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/672867/cyrodiil-champions-live-test-community-q-a#latest

If you don’t like the idea of a test to try to help PvP, you are also free to not enter Cyrodiil during that test. I’m sure there are many people who will refuse to test this in the hopes that these tests devs will just stop trying to fix PvP and just sunset it completely so they can focus exclusively on PvE, so you would probably not be alone in sitting out of the Vengeance campaign.

Vet trials and end game PvE suffers from the same performance issues as Cyrodiil does.

Look at it this way: the goal of this test is to increase the population cap in Cyrodiil.

This doesn't apply to veteran trials because the population cap is always 12.

So you're asserting that the problem is not population related. It's calculation related. (as most of us think is the root of the problem) That's why the template system should be implemented game wide and not just for PvP.

The problem is population and calculation related. That's why the test is happening in Cyrodiil and not in veteran trials or overworld.

More people mean there will be more calculations from abilities. Most people in the overworld PvE zones aren't constantly fighting one another, and even if they were, the PvE zones can be split into different instances to divide the population evenly. This doesn't happen with Cyrodiil because players expect to enter the same instance as everyone else in any given campaign.

The test would accomplish nothing in PvE, and it might actually make most veteran content impossible to clear if it were implemented.

Vet trials and end game PvE suffers from the same performance issues as Cyrodiil does with only 12 players in the group/instance.

Ok, fine. Let's pretend that this is a good-faith argument. Which - let's be clear - it's not.

Lag in PvE endgame is more sporadic and not as severe as lag in Cyrodiil. It's there, obviously, but nowhere near the same extent. And usually, it'll affect a few people in the group sometimes - like someone who's playing a slideshow vKA may have it on one day, but not every time they go in. That suggests that the lag is not entirely because of server calculation, but instead because of routing (i.e. weather issues between the client and server)

The other issue is balance. While there are issues with the balance of Vengeance, the benefit of template PvP in the first place is that two equally matches players on the same template will be matched evenly. Now ZOS didn't do a huge balance pass on Venegance (that was addressed in those Q&As!) so naturally there's going to be one OP class and one trash-tier class, but it's a testing week so it's not the worst thing in the world. Either way, the 'test' is to get hundreds of players in one battle at once.

PvE would be a lot harder to test that way, since you would need to ensure the bosses are completable in order to get to them. One of the big complaints with the more recent HMs is that they do require players to be slaves to the meta, so if players were replaced with templates there would have to be a balance pass to make sure that the bosses are completable.

The other issue is that PvE has defined roles, so a "DK template" would still need to be able to be a proper tank, DPS, and even a healer. That means you'd essentially need 3x as many templates and a huge balance just to be able to test it.

Who knows, maybe depending on the results of this Cyro testing, they'd be able to make a pass on PvE as well. But let's be honest - nobody thinks that "just make template PvE" is anything other than a complaint about PvP testing. And again, if you think that Vengenace would be the death of PvP, you are perfectly at liberty to play IC or BGs with your fully customized PvP build during that week.

TaSheen · February 4

LPapirius wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

No. Just no. Quickest way to kill the game....

But you think it's OK to implement this template system for Cyrodiil?

I don't give a rat's patoot whether it's implemented or not as I have ZERO use for pvp. I think it's sad they can't seem to fix pvp, and also a bit annoying that y'all have to put up with so many test things going on - but since the only thing I do is questing in overland (when the bosses aren't far too hard for me - as is the case lately), I see no reason for the devs to mess with templating overland pve characters.

And I can guarantee that templating pve characters would drive not only me but others away - since there's just no reason to "vanilla-ize" that at all. And no, I don't do group content either.

Veinblood1965 · February 4

I highly doubt the ONLY option will be template based PVP. It may BE an option but I'm sure ZoS will leave some of the more used server types alone. Face it, some of the server types are hardly used at all, no CP zones for example.

It would result in a mass exodus of PVP players. Not saying it might not be fun to try but I like being able to tinker with my builds and I've done just about everything but housing in the game. PVP is a place where long term players usually end up. Kind of lame to lose 1000's of players in one go over a major change like that would be if it ended up being the only option. Once gone most will never come back.

Erickson9610 · February 4

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

I highly doubt the ONLY option will be template based PVP.

During the test week, there will only be one Cyrodiil campaign, and that campaign will be the Vengeance/Cyrodiil Champions campaign.

I suspect that once the hype of the test dies down, we'll see most of the PvP players flooding the Imperial City campaigns so they can play with their builds.

LadyGP · February 4

LPapirius wrote: »

I'd like to see the impact of changing PvE to template only skills at the same time this is being done to PvP areas of the game. It's only fair that the entire game, all players, experience the same test in order to gather feedback and information on the system. It's only one week after all. May as well put the entire game under the same parameters and see how it goes. It's more fair this way and then every player will be able to experience the system and give feedback regarding the system. Just think how good performance over the entire game would be! ....and just think what it would be like if everyone was forced to play the same game. (yes, a template only system is essentially a different game with the same background scenery. And if they're going to implement the template system for PvP, then it should go active for everyone in every zone as well at the same time so everyone is playing the same game with the same limitations)

Based on whatever outcome they get from the PvP test they will know if it would or would not have the same impact on PvE.
Once they get the results I'm sure they will have a better idea on what direction they need to head for new skills/sets as well as possibly revamping current skills/sets to reduce the strain on the servers.

ZOS_GregoryV · February 4

Greetings all,

We are closing this thread as it seems to a duplicate of another thread found here.

Regards,
-Greg-