[Tales of Tribute] A bit disappointed with the state of TOT

Personofsecrets · January 16

Looking at the 10.3.0 patch notes revealed not much going on with TOT

Fixed an issue where various Companion voice lines in response to Tribute matches were missing.

The "continue" keybind on the Tribute summary screen stays on screen as intended, regardless of your selected aspect ratios.

Ranked play is at one of it's lowest number of people getting to rubedite. The top 2% rewards aren't bad, but playing TOT is generally unrewarding. Ironically, the collectibles that many players find themselves adventuring into TOT for, the collectible fragments, seemed to be under a bug that is preventing them from being dropped and there has been zero communication from design about the issue. I personally haven't seen a Psijic Psion page dropping since the High Isle event. That's more understandable, but the general loot from TOT boxes needs a big improvement. Maybe it could be at least doubled. I can't check to make 100% sure right now, but I think that I discovered the loot from expert NPC players is the same box that one gets when receiving unranked win loot. So there is little to no additional incentive to play real players rather than bots despite real players being much more challenging to do well against.

And unranked play has been a bad joke as well. Unlike ranked, the que consistently fires, but it's pretty much just the same people always playing. That would maybe be okay, but a number of these players are extremely toxic as well. That includes people who have had to be blocked for being unhinged up to and including telling me to die. Most importantly, this includes a number of players who abuse the turn timer mechanic to harass others. Kevin, who I'm not even going to bother to tag, wrote that this issue would be reviewed, but I doubt that there will be anything done about the bad actors. Here is another irony in that notorious grierfers get to just do their thing every single day with zero recourse while other players get banned for chat offenses in private zones chats.

Discussion regarding TOT seems to be much less now after the forum change. It's fairly obvious that TOT gaining any interest requires it to be treated like it's own unique thing and not just a mere "system." I think that there has been more TOT discussion in general chat than there has been here in the system forum. But, if this ever does change again, i wouldn't doubt for change to be at snails pace after the damage has already been done.

There remain to be abysmally balanced game pieces. I think that the designers deserve alot of credit for creating ToT. That said there are cards that are abysmally balanced to the point that credentials should be brought into question. I know that the game designers working on ESO have impeccable credentials. I'm just saying that nobody would be able to tell that when looking at game pieces like Pounce or Vestments. These cards are dirty marks on the game as a whole.

The most recently released patrons, especially Alessia, cause exceptionally dull gameplay. The issue with making wide appeals is also apparent since a number of players who might like Mora rightfully dislike the trappings of Almalexia or Druid King. With the number of different types of things that the Patrons are trying to do now, there doesn't seem to be a real vision of what ToT should be except for maybe a mobile tier time sink. And it's unfortunate that this all seems to be the industry trend with card games in general. A number of quality of life changes including updating the starter cards or the morph system will likely never happen. Oh well.

Lyraen_Skyforge · January 16

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Personally, I’m glad to see updates shifting away from Tales of Tribute (ToT) and toward more popular areas with greater potential to attract new players. While I appreciate the creativity behind ToT, I don’t think it should have been a long-term feature to maintain. Its niche appeal and persistent issues—like poor rewards, unbalanced cards, unresolved bugs, and toxic behavior in unranked play—make it clear that minimal maintenance moving forward is sufficient.

ToT feels more like a side system that never reached its full potential. The lack of updates or quality-of-life improvements further suggests it’s not a priority, which I think is for the best. I hope the developers continue focusing on features that resonate more with the community and enhance the game’s overall appeal. ToT has run its course, and it’s time to move on.

fizl101 · January 16

I really enjoy ToT but after the first few months of play I stopped playing it PvP and stuck to PvE as I would get all sorts of strange or derogatory messages from people. Even if I played offline in game they would message me via PSN instead

spartaxoxo · January 16

I haven't been getting collectibles in so long. Idek if they are working

Solariken · January 16

I think ToT would be insanely popular if they would release a mobile app. Why they would ever bother releasing a card game without a mobile app is beyond me.

When I log in to ESO proper, I'm there for combat and don't care to waste time on cards. If I could play ToT while laying in bed though.... Game changer.

spartaxoxo · January 16

Solariken wrote: »

I think ToT would be insanely popular if they would release a mobile app. Why they would ever bother releasing a card game without a mobile app is beyond me.

When I log in to ESO proper, I'm there for combat and don't care to waste time on cards. If I could play ToT while laying in bed though.... Game changer.

Same. I also would be able to do it while queued, which seems like such a perfect use for it. I wish this game had a companion app

Personofsecrets · January 16

I think that Legends dies in a week. That's too bad too.

katanagirl1 · January 16

I was playing ToT up to the time when the Almalexia deck came out. I am a casual player and not interested in PvP matches, and don’t really have the time to devote to it to learn how to use the more complex decks like Almalexia and Mora, so I didn’t do well with even the expert npcs (which were supposedly easier than the novice). It’s not fun for me so if the cool drops are super rare, I have no interest to play.

spartaxoxo · January 16

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I was playing ToT up to the time when the Almalexia deck came out. I am a casual player and not interested in PvP matches, and don’t really have the time to devote to it to learn how to use the more complex decks like Almalexia and Mora, so I didn’t do well with even the expert npcs (which were supposedly easier than the novice). It’s not fun for me so if the cool drops are super rare, I have no interest to play.

If you play the novice NPCs, they will only select the first four decks. I don't personally see expert NPCs as easier than novice ones.

katanagirl1 · January 17

spartaxoxo wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I was playing ToT up to the time when the Almalexia deck came out. I am a casual player and not interested in PvP matches, and don’t really have the time to devote to it to learn how to use the more complex decks like Almalexia and Mora, so I didn’t do well with even the expert npcs (which were supposedly easier than the novice). It’s not fun for me so if the cool drops are super rare, I have no interest to play.

If you play the novice NPCs, they will only select the first four decks. I don't personally see expert NPCs as easier than novice ones.

Yeah I know, but they got very aggressive with patron flipping when I was still doing those dailies. I wasn’t getting any of the whatever rare thing that was dropping back then so it just wasn’t worth my time anymore.

Personofsecrets · January 17

Balance being this poor isn't good for anyone. One player brutalizing another because of turn one is inherently demeaning. And to what end? So that unfamiliar players can win a game or two based on the power of the overpowered cards alone? Really, for what reason?

kind_hero · January 27

I haven't played ToT at all until now, and I only played because I wanted to get the final achievement for Zerith-var. I didn't think ToT was bad, it's just that I play a mmorpg for other reasons, and not to play cards.

Anyway, I can say this mini game has its merits. However, in my opinion, one session takes too long for a mini game inside a mmo, especially one centered on action rpg elements. I would like a more shorter game, like maybe at 20 prestige instead of 40. I can do lots of other more fun activities in the time it takes to win a game of ToT. That's why I don't see much of a future for this activity inside ESO, but who knows. I don't think I will play more ToT just because the games take too long for my playtime.

Personofsecrets · January 27

The average match is under 10 minutes. That's really too long?

Northwold · January 31

I love the game but personally I've avoided playing versus other players for a month now because it just takes far too long for some people. It's not the game, which I really like. It's the way some (too many) players behave with it.

I get very frustrated with the NPC players, mind. Eg they don't use (or counter) Rahjin properly so games become too easy and seem to have no interest in accumulating decks, only power. I also think Sorcerer King and Mora are plain badly designed (Sorc for the patron, Mora the cards themselves), since they almost inevitably force you to play their way. With every other deck there is choice.

DinoZavr · January 31

@Personofsecrets

Psijic Psion pages do drop. Though rather rare.
To pinpoint the drop rates i am now playing ToT vs NPCs daily on 2 accounts (one EU one NA) every day.
Style pages drop from purple boxes with like 1:30 .. 1:40 chance
What do not drop at all - fragments for both achievements. got only 2 (of 10) in 2 months, and as i play 2 accounts it will tale me aproximatingly 16 more months of dailies to get a houseguest (or more if i was too lucky with 1 drop per 2 months).

On NA account i was also playing one ranked game every day for a golden box for exactly 30 days.
Now i stopped this. And play only vs NPCs though they play extremely stupid.

My reluctance to play against humans is caused by mostly two reasons:
1. As soon as i reach rubedite tier - more than half of my opponents chose the Orgnum desk. i hate it. i mean sincerely hate it. As you can counter it with Ansei+Crows or Pelin+Crows, but you need to be VERY lucky to get powerful cards early, otherwise you have to "landslide together and faster one wins". It is the desk made for braindead and trolls. And due to all-mighty Orgnum, mostly they occupy the rubedite tier. As this desk is damn efficient.
2. on average one of five players delay theirs moves (even the first ones, which are no-brainers) - i have read this is an exploit, which can make me lose the game. It had not happened even once with me, probably Zeni has fixed that, but i don't like waiting for one and a half minute for each of my opponent moves. As, let me repeat - one of five players is abusing time controls.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

The average match is under 10 minutes. That's really too long?

only if your opponent use Orgnum and not torturing you with intentional delays.
normal game with normal player is like 20 minutes, game with "delayer" is 25+ minutes. facing delaying opponents i normally just concede (as i dont have that much time) and the troll wins and gets better rating.

in my opinion ToT could be a great game if "fine-tuned" right.
Orgnum is too hard to counter, Almalexia is not balanced enough and Mora desk is impossible to balance because of different strength at the start of match and in its end. Also some Druid agents could cost a bit more, but this is still a good desk.
i don't like playing ToT (which is a good game) because it allows and by design supports unsportsmanship play (Orgnum desk, other imbalances, exploitable time control) and many players enjoy that.
fast games are brainless rotating Orgnum patron, long game are waiting 90 seconds until your opponent clicks 5 one-coin cards. where the fun is?

Of course, this are solely my personal views and opinions. give or take.

TL/DR; ToT still requires better thorough balancing and implementing better time controls. Otherwise abusive players win. NPCs are not challenging opponents as they do a lot of mistakes.

Personofsecrets · January 31

DinoZavr wrote: »

@Personofsecrets

Psijic Psion pages do drop. Though rather rare....

Thank you for the message. I'd like to address what you reviewed.

So yes, the pages do drop. I believe that players really need to be aiming for the gold boxes to get them.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8259097#Comment_8259097

That's interesting to find out that you've gotten any collectible fragments at all. We here have been speculating that they are totally broken. How recent did you receive the last one?

Regarding people taking up all of the time, @ZOS_Kevin mentioned that the team would review this kind of trolling. I personally feel like it should be considered as cheating since the intention is similar to what you mention. Players want to make their opponents quit under the threat of holding them hostage for 30 plus minutes. That's just not in the spirit of Elder Scrolls whatsoever and it's baffling that there has yet a declared action over this behavior. It's unacceptable that this simple fun part of the game is widely considered to be the most toxic.

My data over 3100 casual games is a time of 8:55
My data over 2200 Ranked games is a time of 9:46

I tend to use decks that take a long time to play such as Psijic and Almalexia. So these games are the norm for me. It's an average, so there are longer games, but those are usually from the bad actors who are exploiting the timer. So the average should actually be much lower.

My NPC matches, which I do sometimes use Sorcerer King for last an average of 6:05. So real players are only using an extra 3 to 4 minutes when thinking about plays that the computer would do automatically.

And you are completely correct about balance. You are also correct that use of some decks is essentially poor sportsmanship. It's a shame that in this day and age there are still digital card games that are trying to appeal to everyone rather than a niche group. People shouldn't have to play against toxic strategies that other players may happen to enjoy. But these games are designed for everyone which really means that they are designed for noone, so differences in what the average player tends to enjoy is bound to give rise to conflict.

But I reiterate, there is no excuse for the time stalling. Whenever a player discusses the EU server, it sounds like the problem is much worse over there and that must be awful. The few spiteful children on NA are bad enough.

DinoZavr · January 31

@Personofsecrets
oh. thank you for your message, my friend.

i have "renewed" playing ToT on my old account and started the characters on NA (and they got a good progress - now got Rank 8, unlocked most of the desks (except Almalexia and St.Alessia - ongoing Event forces to do treasure maps, also geysering, fishing and worldbossing for style pages, so right now i have no time for zone stories, so maybe after Pan_Tamriel Event ends)

i will publish drop statistics after another 20 days, as currently it exists written by a ballpen on a paper.
since i unlocked ToT on my NA account i have got 2 Spearhead Scraps (in about 60 days) so far, one dropped from a purple container, another from a green one. EU got no shards.
For style pages during recent month i have got one Psijic Psion page from a gold box on NA, 3 Frandar's pages from purple boxes (after 30 golden and 60 purple boxes) - during one month (purple were 2x30 as i played every day on both servers).

as for fragments @JHartEllis also advised me to get golden boxes, and he is a great ToT pro.

Personofsecrets · January 31

DinoZavr wrote: »

@Personofsecrets
oh. thank you for your message, my friend.

i have "renewed" playing ToT on my old account and started the characters on NA (and they got a good progress - now got Rank 8, unlocked most of the desks (except Almalexia and St.Alessia - ongoing Event forces to do treasure maps, also geysering, fishing and worldbossing for style pages, so right now i have no time for zone stories, so maybe after Pan_Tamriel Event ends)

i will publish drop statistics after another 20 days, as currently it exists written by a ballpen on a paper.
since i unlocked ToT on my NA account i have got 2 Spearhead Scraps (in about 60 days) so far, one dropped from a purple container, another from a green one. EU got no shards.
For style pages during recent month i have got one Psijic Psion page from a gold box on NA, 3 Frandar's pages from purple boxes (after 30 golden and 60 purple boxes) - during one month (purple were 2x30 as i played every day on both servers).

as for fragments @JHartEllis also advised me to get golden boxes, and he is a great ToT pro.

That's great to find out. I look forward to the full statistics later on.

spartaxoxo · January 31

I stopped playing Tales for weeks now because I got tired of waiting for my last drop for the house guest.

I really wonder if it's not bugged.

Personofsecrets · March 3

@DinoZavr , so what does the data look like?

DinoZavr · March 3

@Personofsecrets oh. i lost my patience and stopped daily ToT and now heavily distracted by the Event
i ll summarize what is already done this weekend (should be 2x50x3), okay?

Personofsecrets · March 3

DinoZavr wrote: »

@Personofsecrets oh. i lost my patience and stopped daily ToT and now heavily distracted by the Event
i ll summarize what is already done this weekend (should be 2x50x3), okay?

Yup, sounds good - have been doing the event myself.

DinoZavr · March 10

Hello, @Personofsecrets

Thank you for reminding me it is time to report.
Maybe some curious ToT players could make some notes or contribute theirs stats too.

From the year beginning I was recording drops from ToT “play vs NPCs” dailies
and at this certain moment I have 55 days statistics.

In summary: What do I get if I play ToT versus NPCs dailies every day for a month:

Of course, the numbers are not very representative, but this is the best I could collect
I was playing at both PC EU and PC NA servers during about 2 months, so the stats
are like 4 months of ToT dailies at a single server.
3 games every day (or I d better say 3 wins, as rarely, but I was losing to NPCs, though rather rare)
the rewards were one purple container, 3 x green containers (and white containers for the losses)
I was not counting whites, as they were few, though they may drop furnishing plans and provisioning recipes (the drop rate is lower than the similar items from greens, though)
So, 220 reward containers reviewed.
Of course "expected" (crafting materials) rewards are omitted, as they were expected, apparently.
oh, and i was not accounting Transmute Crystals (of course i should, but did not, and time is irreversible)

Now, to the information specially for my friend @Personofsecrets
I know you are interested in certain Style Pages and Fragments (I colored them in the data for you)
RAW DATA:

There is also 30 days of one ranked win a day (so one golden coffer on PC NA), they are good but not significantly better that purple container drops. They are not included in the summary table above.
(gaps: 20 hours maintenance on Feb,05, next 2 days there were constant disconnects, Feb 14, NA under DDoS, after that i just got bored. added 2 last days, as you reminded me to post the stats)

Hope this helps.

I would hardly play ToT every day further and log drops, as the Fragments drop rate (which are the focus of my interest) is stupidly low (also you might notice, my PC EU character got nothing interesting. And this is very upsetting for me, as PC EU is my “main” server. I switch to NA solely for experiments like collecting this statistics or such. Playing with 240mS ping is not comfortable, so PC EU is where i play the most), so there are chances WW3 or some new pandemic would get me before I eventually obtain the Captain Kaleen houseguest on PC EU.
My current progress is 0 of 10 for Heavily Played Tribute Cards, and 0 of 10 for Scraps of the Spearhead's Colors on PC EU. 2 months of dailies led to zero progress in the said Achievements on PC EU.
Frustrating.

Still, good luck with drops

edit: fixed typos