I will admit, it is annoying that a lot of costumes ostensibly designed for the masculine form will have a female version that is still flattering on the feminine form. But if a costume is originally designed for a feminine form, the masculine version just ends up being a dude in drag.

There are a lot of costumes that have subtle differences - e.g. the Gem Prospector or the Abecean Privateer have slightly different cuts so both bodytypes can look good in it. I don’t understand why things like the Timbercrow Wanderer didn’t lose the sports bra for the guys.

And for this one especially, we have a masculine version in the game… and then the art team decided to just ignore its existence when they made the updated one. Personally, I think it’s a strange choice, but there have been a number of fashion-related choices this game has made that I do not agree with (e.g. locked class styles and the lack of a ‘hide’ option on anything but helms and shoulders)

It's a game set in an intrinsically magickal world - you don't have to worry about armor if you don't want to (aside from the fact that not all slots can be hidden, which does really pinch the attitude, I guess).

I'd kind of like to have a fem warrior go into battle naked except for woad (though that theory seems to have been debunked at this point).

rrbreezy wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

It's a game set in an intrinsically magickal world - you don't have to worry about armor if you don't want to (aside from the fact that not all slots can be hidden, which does really pinch the attitude, I guess).

I'd kind of like to have a fem warrior go into battle naked except for woad (though that theory seems to have been debunked at this point).

So why does plate mail exist? In case it wasn’t clear, I was commenting on the often rather sexist implementation of skimpy, revealing armor for women—a frequent trope in fantasy media.

this game has plenty of not skimpy option for women, so I don't see it as this in this game. its just an option women have here, not mandatory or the majority of motif available. some women do like these outfit, some don't it's up to them to decide because they have free will and is NOT a negative or wrong thing for them to chose it

rrbreezy wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

It's a game set in an intrinsically magickal world - you don't have to worry about armor if you don't want to (aside from the fact that not all slots can be hidden, which does really pinch the attitude, I guess).

I'd kind of like to have a fem warrior go into battle naked except for woad (though that theory seems to have been debunked at this point).

So why does plate mail exist? In case it wasn’t clear, I was commenting on the often rather sexist implementation of skimpy, revealing armor for women—a frequent trope in fantasy media.

Is this really a problem these days? If we are talking about Western games (it is not allowed to mention other games, but even TES series has moved away from this type of thing after Daggerfall).
Most Western games nowadays depict women in a pretty grounded and realistic manner. It's mostly Asian games that have this "fully armored rugged-looking warrior vs bikini-clad hourglass-shaped lady with perfect hair and makeup", and even then, they often also want to attract female players with attractive male characters (though, admittedly, these characters are not as sexualized in most cases).

As an individual, who happens to be gay but doesn't think this plays any role when it comes to clothing in the real world or in ESO, I value freedom very much - just like many other people.

In my opinion, everyone should be able to wear whatever they want, no matter who they are. Same goes for characters in this game. This is the reason I favor giving people options.

I like that ESO mostly has no huge differences in male and female armor, unlike some other games where the male versions are super bulky, which is something I personally dislike.

Still, I personally don't want my male main to run around wearing a leather bra (or any other bra), which makes all costumes and styles where there is no other option completely useless for me. If people like costumes with bras for their character of whatever gender, fine, but for me, it doesn't fit the idea I have of my character (although in case of this costume, it doesn't really matter anyway, because the "cloak" looks like a torn washcloth to me, which is another thing that doesn't exactly fit the idea I have of what my character would prefer to wear).

So, yes, having an alternative, not character-gender-restricted, option for costumes that are very distinctively designed for one sex, like having a bra, would be nice. So everyone could just choose the one they like better.

Syldras wrote: »

As an individual, who happens to be gay but doesn't think this plays any role when it comes to clothing in the real world or in ESO, I value freedom very much - just like many other people.

In my opinion, everyone should be able to wear whatever they want, no matter who they are. Same goes for characters in this game. This is the reason I favor giving people options.

I like that ESO mostly has no huge differences in male and female armor, unlike some other games where the male versions are super bulky, which is something I personally dislike.

Still, I personally don't want my male main to run around wearing a leather bra (or any other bra), which makes all costumes and styles where there is no other option completely useless for me. If people like costumes with bras for their character of whatever gender, fine, but for me, it doesn't fit the idea I have of my character (although in case of this costume, it doesn't really matter anyway, because the "cloak" looks like a torn washcloth to me, which is another thing that doesn't exactly fit the idea I have of what my character would prefer to wear).

So, yes, having an alternative, not character-gender-restricted, option for costumes that are very distinctively designed for one sex, like having a bra, would be nice. So everyone could just choose the one they like better.

As a woman, I always liked that the Elder Scrolls weren't as bad as most of the other games of the same times, and that there weren't huge differences between the sexes regarding armor.

I also completely agree that I love freedom of choice and would love it if there were ways to hide parts of the armor, or, as you said, alternative versions of styles/armor that were designed with one sex clearly in mind.

Give me more choices!

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

I'm not happy either. I am very tired of no masculine morph for many costumes which appear lately. Always there is a bra, or a female top on these. If they want to allow a male to wear this, I don't mind that others want it and like it, it's fine with me that they wear this. But give masculine version too for people who do not want to wear it like this on a male body.

There is less and less options for masculine characters lately, so many crown gem costume have only a bra, or female/feminine centered top. please stop it and give an alternate version so we can choose. Why would it be hard to add a second version with different mesh on top?

It seems only fair that if women are going to be forced into boob armor, men should be as well.

I think they might be talking about literally having no top, instead of covering the pecs like they're boobs. In essence: if there are designs objectifying women as sex objects, why aren't there designs depicting men as sex objects. (I'd assume chest coverings on a man, even if stylistically designed as though they have boobs, falls short given they don't, ergo, take it off).

Though I'd expect that to be sourced from a style that's more berserker/orc(masculine berserker stereotype) /argonian (scales rubbing being irritating/cold-blooded)/undead kinda thing.

Though in this case Elven Hero being more androgynous/female fits with elven stereotypes of the men that look more like women. (Or you know, they didn't want to put in the effort of making significant changes).

Never thought elven men "looked like women", always found them very masculine, especially long haired ones to show his pride in his beauty.

Also I do not regard it as "objectification" when no one is forcing me to wear no shirt- I chose to do so myself, nobody turned me into an object.

TheMajority wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

I'm not happy either. I am very tired of no masculine morph for many costumes which appear lately. Always there is a bra, or a female top on these. If they want to allow a male to wear this, I don't mind that others want it and like it, it's fine with me that they wear this. But give masculine version too for people who do not want to wear it like this on a male body.

There is less and less options for masculine characters lately, so many crown gem costume have only a bra, or female/feminine centered top. please stop it and give an alternate version so we can choose. Why would it be hard to add a second version with different mesh on top?

It seems only fair that if women are going to be forced into boob armor, men should be as well.

I think they might be talking about literally having no top, instead of covering the pecs like they're boobs. In essence: if there are designs objectifying women as sex objects, why aren't there designs depicting men as sex objects. (I'd assume chest coverings on a man, even if stylistically designed as though they have boobs, falls short given they don't, ergo, take it off).

Though I'd expect that to be sourced from a style that's more berserker/orc(masculine berserker stereotype) /argonian (scales rubbing being irritating/cold-blooded)/undead kinda thing.

Though in this case Elven Hero being more androgynous/female fits with elven stereotypes of the men that look more like women. (Or you know, they didn't want to put in the effort of making significant changes).

Never thought elven men "looked like women", always found them very masculine, especially long haired ones to show his pride in his beauty.

Also I do not regard it as "objectification" when no one is forcing me to wear no shirt- I chose to do so myself, nobody turned me into an object.

And you do so why? For a practical reason? Or to show off the body.

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

As an individual, who happens to be gay but doesn't think this plays any role when it comes to clothing in the real world or in ESO, I value freedom very much - just like many other people.

In my opinion, everyone should be able to wear whatever they want, no matter who they are. Same goes for characters in this game. This is the reason I favor giving people options.

I like that ESO mostly has no huge differences in male and female armor, unlike some other games where the male versions are super bulky, which is something I personally dislike.

Still, I personally don't want my male main to run around wearing a leather bra (or any other bra), which makes all costumes and styles where there is no other option completely useless for me. If people like costumes with bras for their character of whatever gender, fine, but for me, it doesn't fit the idea I have of my character (although in case of this costume, it doesn't really matter anyway, because the "cloak" looks like a torn washcloth to me, which is another thing that doesn't exactly fit the idea I have of what my character would prefer to wear).

So, yes, having an alternative, not character-gender-restricted, option for costumes that are very distinctively designed for one sex, like having a bra, would be nice. So everyone could just choose the one they like better.

As a woman, I always liked that the Elder Scrolls weren't as bad as most of the other games of the same times, and that there weren't huge differences between the sexes regarding armor.

I also completely agree that I love freedom of choice and would love it if there were ways to hide parts of the armor, or, as you said, alternative versions of styles/armor that were designed with one sex clearly in mind.

Give me more choices!

More choices is all I want. For costumes that zos has sold for 30 to 50 usd you would think we get a lot of customization from them.

Icy_Waffles wrote: »

Hey all, I’ve been reading through the discussion and I’d like to add, one thing I love about this game is creativity, choice, etc. we can have as players. The individuality we can find in character models is awesome. It’s much better than everyone basically looking the same right?

I freaking love that many are happy with this change as they can wear this to meet their preferences! I just wish I could have had the upgrade to one of my favorites that worked how I preferred it.

The fact that you can’t dye the cape is such an oversight. Unless that’s the appeal. Lol after 10 years your cloak is grayed out

Maybe this is the start of the Greycloaks?

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Eh, fair enough, though I see so many bathrobes around that I'm hard pressed to believe that the majority do so for in-character reasons.

Personally, I'm a roleplayer and rather "serious" at that; I dress my characters according to the person I want to portray, and also depending on the situation. I also change their clothes according to the climate of the zone they're currently questing in (and that I can do that in ESO sufficiently with free items only, without having to spend any extra money, is something I really appreciate). They usually don't walk around shirtless, but if it would fit the place and situation, why not! My interest in gawking at my own characters body - a character that's supposed to be myself for the time of playing - is rather limited.

As for other people, I don't doubt some just want to stare, but really, if that's what they want, how is it any of my business how they're playing this game? What matters to me is that the game is not blatantly sexist in its depiction of characters (e.g. depicting all female characters as half-naked eyecandy - this would be objectification), and that there's a choice so people can dress their character the way they want (and in ESO, so far, the majority of costumes is not revealing, so there are many options for people who want don't want skimpy designs).

But, what I actually was about: Showing skin, or even complete nudity, is not sexual in itself. It depends on context. The athletes of the original Olympic games were all nude, without any sexual connotations. Today, people go to the sauna or go swimming completely nude in some parts of the world, with isn't sexual or objectifying either.

I really dislike the new version, tbh. I have a character that currently wears the original and the new one changes the shape of her body. Her waist is thinner, her hips are smaller. Luckily, I can just keep using the old one and they haven't updated an existing costume. Great for everyone that likes the new one but it's not for me.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Eh, fair enough, though I see so many bathrobes around that I'm hard pressed to believe that the majority do so for in-character reasons.

Personally, I'm a roleplayer and rather "serious" at that; I dress my characters according to the person I want to portray, and also depending on the situation. I also change their clothes according to the climate of the zone they're currently questing in (and that I can do that in ESO sufficiently with free items only, without having to spend any extra money, is something I really appreciate). They usually don't walk around shirtless, but if it would fit the place and situation, why not! My interest in gawking at my own characters body - a character that's supposed to be myself for the time of playing - is rather limited.

As for other people, I don't doubt some just want to stare, but really, if that's what they want, how is it any of my business how they're playing this game? What matters to me is that the game is not blatantly sexist in its depiction of characters (e.g. depicting all female characters as half-naked eyecandy - this would be objectification), and that there's a choice so people can dress their character the way they want (and in ESO, so far, the majority of costumes is not revealing, so there are many options for people who want don't want skimpy designs).

But, what I actually was about: Showing skin, or even complete nudity, is not sexual in itself. It depends on context. The athletes of the original Olympic games were all nude, without any sexual connotations. Today, people go to the sauna or go swimming completely nude in some parts of the world, with isn't sexual or objectifying either.

And some also just to be cheeky [slang] (endearingly).

Though I agree, and frankly from a practicality standpoint I thought the lack of armoring/clothing on the previous iteration of the high elf hero was to reduce chafing with assumed acrobatics.

As far as the ESRB and global laws, those might not play nice with total nudity, but I also agree, it has just been made taboo in puritan cultures.

TheMajority wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

And you do so why? For a practical reason? Or to show off the body.

Because it's warm or because it's practical for some occasions (physical work, sports) to be able to move more freely?

Eh, fair enough, though I see so many bathrobes around that I'm hard pressed to believe that the majority do so for in-character reasons.

Why? I do roleplay as much as anyone else. You don't know me, but judge as if some great crime occurs based on a comment I make, because I like my character I made.

I don't see a crime in creating a beautiful character and to have appreciation for what I created on the character creator, but also have it part of my character's personality for him to be a dancer, for example, or because of an argonian who wants to swim or fish in the water to bring a meal home for his tribe.

I chose to be this character this way, to walk in his shoes and ask myself a question like : what would it be like to be a redguard dancer? what would it be like to be a tribal fisherman to be strong? is he vain, does he like others to see him and think he's beautiful to? what would it be like to play a vain character? what would it be like to play a honorable tribesman whose strength show in his body when he swim?

Even if I did not do it for in character reasons, it's not your concern, or even wrong to find a character attractive and like them. Sorry, but I don't have to justify my attraction to my own creation to you.

Perhaps the stigma associated with the wording I used misses my intention.

Yes, you are indeed trying to make something you consider an attractive/beautiful character, like a (in the business of being attractive) Redguard dancer, or strappingly handsome tribesmen.

I'm not trying to "criminalize" that intention. Just that you want that option for men too instead of the stereotypical "Men are only armor clad, women are only in bikini's" (Or in this case, when there is an outfit where the woman has the "conventionally attractive cut of attire", the dude does too when taking into account conventionally attractive male elements).

Sorry if I seemed to react overly and yes, the word objectification did make it sound this way because I see that word as like not treating someone as a person, when that was not my feeling towards my characters. it's really just a desire to have more option of shirtless attire for these roleplays. Thank you for clarification

RebornV3x wrote: »

I wish they would have fixed the costume the in game costume has the inner thigh area covered and in ALL official media that area is skin. such a nice costume but it such a glaring issue I just can't

Khajiit asked his friend M'aiq about this and was told, "flesh-colored tights. M'aiq's cousin knows a tailor who can make these for less than two gold per pair. But M'aiq thinks he uses cheap materials to hold down the cost."