[Rush of Agony] - If it interrupts abilities, and prevents casting them when pulling, it is a Stun.

Avran_Sylt · January 17

Simple. It needs to adhere to CC immunity.

Markytous · January 17

Rush of Agony should do nothing (but damage) to a CC Immune target.

Major_Mangle · January 18

Markytous wrote: »

Rush of Agony should do nothing (but damage) to a CC Immune target.

RoA doesn´t pull you if you´ve CC immunity though (not to be confused with root-/snare immunity which is a different thing).

Thumbless_Bot · January 18

It doesn't apply cc immunity but it adheres to it.

So, you can be hit with this multiple times, like a pinball, or this then something else that is a CC...all while taking massive aoe damage from the zerg, group...

Also. The pull will pull you out of BlackReach from Solitude.

Both of these things are bad for the game.

Joy_Division · January 18

The fact that this set is so confusing is proof that it is bad, it is inconsistent with the game's core mechanics, ir needs to die in a fire.

RoA will respect a target that is CC immune (i.e., target won't get pulled).

It is after RoA removes control of a target character (by definition crowd control) and forcibly moves them, that the game fails to provide CC immunity to the pulled target (like every other CC inducing set in the game). That is the problem. That is what is meant in player complaints about the set.

That ZOS has allowed this set and its nonsense to undermine Cyrodiil for years means either

they consider a set that violate the game's basic core fundamentals and is so powerful that is not only run by every organized group, but also 100% central to every single "strategy" they use, to be high quality PvP gameplay.
they do not spend any time in cyrodiil to be aware of #1

Theignson · January 18

I think there have been over 1000 posts about this set, this set that has practically single handedly ruined cyrodil by breaking the rules and making every single ball group use it (since it is so broken)-- the set that allows groups that are almost immortal to also have overwhelming offensive power === god mode.

But despite over 1000 posts by some of the game's most skilled and respected players, ZOS has done nothing, meanwhile constantly nerfing virtually any other set that has even a microscopic advantage in PvP.

What conclusion can we draw?

Sluggy · January 18

Markytous wrote: »

Rush of Agony should do nothing (but damage) to a CC Immune target.

Rush of Agony should do nothing.

You had some extra words in there for some reason. Don't worry, though. I fixed it for ya!

warm_blanket · January 19

Sluggy wrote: »

Markytous wrote: »

Rush of Agony should do nothing (but damage) to a CC Immune target.

Rush of Agony should do nothing.

You had some extra words in there for some reason. Don't worry, though. I fixed it for ya!

This is unironically the correct take.

RoA should be completely removed from pvp, it's design is unfortunately fundamentally unworkable in that environment. Giving CC immunity is only a bandaid, not a fix.

This set is both unfun to use and unfun to play against.

Avran_Sylt · January 19

warm_blanket wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

Markytous wrote: »

Rush of Agony should do nothing (but damage) to a CC Immune target.

Rush of Agony should do nothing.

You had some extra words in there for some reason. Don't worry, though. I fixed it for ya!

This is unironically the correct take.

RoA should be completely removed from pvp, it's design is unfortunately fundamentally unworkable in that environment. Giving CC immunity is only a bandaid, not a fix.

This set is both unfun to use and unfun to play against.

No, it just needs to work like every other pull in the game does:

Beckoning Armor: The pull is considered a stun
Leashing Soul: The pull is considered a stun
Leashing Burst: The pull is considered a stun
Silver Leash: The pull is considered a stun
DK Chains: The pull is considered a stun
Swarm Mother: The pull is considered a stun

If you want to lockdown enemies after the pull, use an Immobilize AoE (because Immobilize and Stun have their own distinct CC immunity timers)

Then probably also give a growing AoE around the player indicating the upcoming AoE burst, like Tarnished Nightmare does, which would also act as a block indicator.

Avran_Sylt · January 19

To give an example as to why a pull needs to be considered a stun:

If I'm casting a cast-time ability, or a channeled ability, and I become interrupted by the pull, I'm now at a overall action disadvantage as that ability and whatever it was it would do didn't happen.

And because I'm not CC immune, if for whatever reason the abilities I use are most cast-time or channel, I can end up with a further action disadvantage if I'm then stunned, as I don't have CC immunity from the pull.

AngryPenguin · January 19

Joy_Division wrote: »

The fact that this set is so confusing is proof that it is bad, it is inconsistent with the game's core mechanics, ir needs to die in a fire.

...
they consider a set that violate the game's basic core fundamentals and is so powerful that is not only run by every organized group, but also 100% central to every single "strategy" they use, to be high quality PvP gameplay.

they do not spend any time in cyrodiil to be aware of #1

You said it. The BG release stream is further proof. When the lead combat designer says out loud in a live stream "I haven't spent much time in Cyrodiil in the last couple years" it's a problem. (he said this in a live stream that was recorded and can be clipped and posted here if necessary for proof, so it's not a conspiracy theory)

CameraBeardThePirate · January 19

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

The fact that this set is so confusing is proof that it is bad, it is inconsistent with the game's core mechanics, ir needs to die in a fire.

...
they consider a set that violate the game's basic core fundamentals and is so powerful that is not only run by every organized group, but also 100% central to every single "strategy" they use, to be high quality PvP gameplay.

they do not spend any time in cyrodiil to be aware of #1

You said it. The BG release stream is further proof. When the lead combat designer says out loud in a live stream "I haven't spent much time in Cyrodiil in the last couple years" it's a problem. (he said this in a live stream that was recorded and can be clipped and posted here if necessary for proof, so it's not a conspiracy theory)

The fact he couldn't identify Rush of Agony as the set that was pulling SypherPK when he asked is a problem. Rush of Agony is the single biggest pain point in PvP, and has been for a while, and is one of the most widely used sets in PvP, yet he wasn't able to identify it and explain to Sypher how to counter it.

DeadlySerious · January 19

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

The fact that this set is so confusing is proof that it is bad, it is inconsistent with the game's core mechanics, ir needs to die in a fire.

...
they consider a set that violate the game's basic core fundamentals and is so powerful that is not only run by every organized group, but also 100% central to every single "strategy" they use, to be high quality PvP gameplay.

they do not spend any time in cyrodiil to be aware of #1

You said it. The BG release stream is further proof. When the lead combat designer says out loud in a live stream "I haven't spent much time in Cyrodiil in the last couple years" it's a problem. (he said this in a live stream that was recorded and can be clipped and posted here if necessary for proof, so it's not a conspiracy theory)

The fact he couldn't identify Rush of Agony as the set that was pulling SypherPK when he asked is a problem. Rush of Agony is the single biggest pain point in PvP, and has been for a while, and is one of the most widely used sets in PvP, yet he wasn't able to identify it and explain to Sypher how to counter it.

Yep. It was pretty shocking. My jaw literally dropped when watching this part of the video. I can't remember what the discussion was when he admitted to not spending much time in Cyrodiil in the last couple years, but I clearly remember that statement as being jaw dropping as well.

All in all we learned a lot from that live stream. Too bad it reflects so poorly on how ZOS is managing ESO.

AngryPenguin · January 19

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

The fact that this set is so confusing is proof that it is bad, it is inconsistent with the game's core mechanics, ir needs to die in a fire.

...
they consider a set that violate the game's basic core fundamentals and is so powerful that is not only run by every organized group, but also 100% central to every single "strategy" they use, to be high quality PvP gameplay.

they do not spend any time in cyrodiil to be aware of #1

You said it. The BG release stream is further proof. When the lead combat designer says out loud in a live stream "I haven't spent much time in Cyrodiil in the last couple years" it's a problem. (he said this in a live stream that was recorded and can be clipped and posted here if necessary for proof, so it's not a conspiracy theory)

The fact he couldn't identify Rush of Agony as the set that was pulling SypherPK when he asked is a problem. Rush of Agony is the single biggest pain point in PvP, and has been for a while, and is one of the most widely used sets in PvP, yet he wasn't able to identify it and explain to Sypher how to counter it.

Yes, the live stream was scary revealing, and not in a good way.

Avran_Sylt · January 19

Good lord the amount of uselessly critical feedback and bashing in this thread is astounding.

"Thing bad"

EXPLAIN WHY.

IMO:

It deviates from the CC standards of all other pulls in the game by not applying CC immunity when it is both a soft interrupt, and suppression ability (for the duration of the pull).
Not having taunt is not reason enough to remove the CC status application.
It does not provide a telegraph like most other damaging proc sets.
Theoretically with proper staggering of ability use and distance, a player could be juggled between multiple users of this set indefinitely due to a lack of CC immunity application.

Sluggy · January 21

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Good lord the amount of uselessly critical feedback and bashing in this thread is astounding.

"Thing bad"

EXPLAIN WHY.

IMO:
It deviates from the CC standards of all other pulls in the game by not applying CC immunity when it is both a soft interrupt, and suppression ability (for the duration of the pull).

Not having taunt is not reason enough to remove the CC status application.

It does not provide a telegraph like most other damaging proc sets.

Theoretically with proper staggering of ability use and distance, a player could be juggled between multiple users of this set indefinitely due to a lack of CC immunity application.

The reason no one is giving 'useful' details is because we have... in large quantities, for a long period of time. I don't know about the rest of you but I'm only willing to repeat myself verbatim so many times.

Avran_Sylt · January 21

Sluggy wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Good lord the amount of uselessly critical feedback and bashing in this thread is astounding.

"Thing bad"

EXPLAIN WHY.

IMO:
It deviates from the CC standards of all other pulls in the game by not applying CC immunity when it is both a soft interrupt, and suppression ability (for the duration of the pull).

Not having taunt is not reason enough to remove the CC status application.

It does not provide a telegraph like most other damaging proc sets.

Theoretically with proper staggering of ability use and distance, a player could be juggled between multiple users of this set indefinitely due to a lack of CC immunity application.

The reason no one is giving 'useful' details is because we have... in large quantities, for a long period of time. I don't know about the rest of you but I'm only willing to repeat myself verbatim so many times.

Then copy/paste your response, or link to an older thread. Something other than bloating what is hopefully constructive criticism with pointless denigration.