NIghtblade subpar, trash, disappointing, mediocre compared to godly DK/sorc

georgeisbusting · May 2014

Thanks for all your posts. You've all convinced me to not even bother with an NB. If there is this much vehemency over a class, it's not even worth it. Why go through any of this bs. And if it's so broken, why do people even bother. Maybe the question should be what keeps people playing a class that is so crappy in both PVE leveling, dungeons, and PVP. Why waste time trying to have fun with something that isn't.

The_Emproer · May 2014

because the class is not anywhere near as broken as some (read: bad players) claim, and merely has some passives/abilities that are bugged. if you don't enjoy the class, you don't enjoy the class. just tired of people claiming that the sky is falling and NB's are broken when it just isn't true at all.

khele23eb17_ESO · May 2014

This really reminds me of the times when the hunter representation in the top 100 arena teams in WoW was like 3. 3 hunters per hundreds of players. There were still people who came to the forums to claim the class was perfectly fine since they themselves were obviously so awesome with it and those 3 guys apparently somehow made it to the top 100.

By bad players do you mean those not willing to pick up a staff and don a bathrobe? Or those not being happy having to fight the game's clunky unresponsive controls to make their characters do anything? Maybe those not satisfied with having to build around broken and subpar abilities/passives? Those frustrated by the 'endgame' being built around aoe grinding and their class not having gotten the memo?

Loco_Mofo · May 2014

The_Emproer wrote: »

because the class is not anywhere near as broken as some (read: bad players) claim, and merely has some passives/abilities that are bugged. if you don't enjoy the class, you don't enjoy the class. just tired of people claiming that the sky is falling and NB's are broken when it just isn't true at all.

Couldn't agree more.

I love my NB and I'm not switching classes. As soon as Zeni fix the skills/passives that aren't quite working as they should, the class will be even more enjoyable.

To those complaining, this class just ain't for you. Go reroll easy mode DK or Sorc. I'm sure you'll come crawling back when those classes are taken down a peg or two.

williams226 · May 2014

I love NB also, tried making a sorc with a bow but didn't like it atall compared to NB.

Have yet to try other two classes but I have two NBs now so that's me sorted.

neocomab16_ESO · May 2014

Okay guys ...I said it once, or several times and I say it again. And of course I dont care about the passives that dont work because that doesnt matter right now.

A good amount of people just dont want to play in a dress with a staff. If they were willing to do that they had picked a sorc. Srsly. If I wanted to wear a dress, I'd play a sorc. Screw diversity, I'm wired that way and so are others.
We all know thatdress plus staff works out pretty well but it also clearly shows the flaws in the basic system, that is magicka > all. And this sucks.

williams226 · May 2014

why not just wear a leather looking disguise over the top of your robes.

Xnemesis · May 2014

5 light 2 medium. Make you 2 med pieces your chest and shoulders for a more rouge type appearance. The med chest and shoulders will give the character a more bulky look and eliminate the dress syndrome.

neocomab16_ESO · May 2014

why not get rid of medium armor entirely? skyrim didnt have it either....and as we see its completely useless anyway. plus most of the time it looks ugly

Selodaoc · May 2014

NB class skills benefits from weapon crit (medium) but dmg is from magicka (light armor).

khele23eb17_ESO · May 2014

williams226 wrote: »

why not just wear a leather looking disguise over the top of your robes.

Is there a disguise that changes a caster-type gameplay experience to an assassin-type gameplay experience? :P

Xnemesis · May 2014

yeah use the class abilities and you have magic daggers

IceDread · May 2014

georgeisbusting wrote: »

Thanks for all your posts. You've all convinced me to not even bother with an NB. If there is this much vehemency over a class, it's not even worth it. Why go through any of this bs. And if it's so broken, why do people even bother. Maybe the question should be what keeps people playing a class that is so crappy in both PVE leveling, dungeons, and PVP. Why waste time trying to have fun with something that isn't.

Because people have invested time and do not want to start over. The class needs it's bugs fixed. It would be much more fun to play a class where you do not have to work around bugs and limitations. Thus it would be better to wait and pick up the class again when / IF the bugs gets fixed.

georgeisbusting · May 2014

IceDread wrote: »

Because people have invested time and do not want to start over. The class needs it's bugs fixed. It would be much more fun to play a class where you do not have to work around bugs and limitations. Thus it would be better to wait and pick up the class again when / IF the bugs gets fixed.

It seems like from everything I've read there really is no need for this class. If the game mechanics are centralized mostly around high magicka and AOE spells, maybe the NB is intended as more "highly-specialized", very situational. Similar to Templar, although I won't go into my thoughts on that. But maybe it's not intended to be a main. You level it up for as-needed situations, because I don't find any use for a class that can only single target when most mobs are chained. That's what I found at early level.

I'm not being sarcastic when thanking people for these posts. I mean it. Why waste time with a class that's not just broken, but serves a very limited purpose. I know this now, so I can concentrate on DK or Sorc. Sorc, imo, is extremely fun. Maybe it's considered easy mode, but I don't care. Fun, at least for me, is not having to test certain skills to determine which aren't working as intended, which misfire, and which don't even work at all. I'm not the QA department. I would like a class where at least 95% of the skills worked. Some may be buggy, some may be over or under-powered, but in general things work as described. That's where I'm coming from.

I like threads like this, because they really help the player base determine what's worth their time. There are too many games out there to have to mess around with half-baked mechanics in one. I'd rather spend my time enjoying then worrying about how my class might suck or be useless at endgame after putting tons hours into it. Forget that.

I mean how many pages in do you keep reading if you find that the book you just bought is boring or just plain stupid after the first chapter? Everybody has a different level of tolerance. Mine is short. So threads like this serve their purpose well.

Therium104 · May 2014

LazerusKI wrote: »

genericcc wrote: »

-mark target doesn't seem to be that great damage buff (partly broken?), heal sometimes doesn't work

just to give some more info about this: it doesnt work at all. No Armor-Reduction does.
Im still not sure what causes it.
1) The Debuff is bugged and does not apply
2) There is no Armor on PVE targets (you deal the same damage agaisnt lvl1 targets as against v10 targets. They just have more health. No difference between targets either, Frost Atronach takes the same damage as a Mudcrab)

I also dont know how strong the armor-mitigation is or if the debuffs would stack.
Veiled Strike (40%) and Reapers Mark (75%) would maybe make a big difference in damage against a single target if they work. And if they stack that would be even better.

You being bad at pvp in multiple MMO means nothing. Drop the buff and nerf talk.

This is pathetic and if the devs listen to low tier garbage players asking for constant buffs to their class and nerf to others it will only hurt the game. The precedence for balance decisions being dictated by bads needs to be averted.

I implore the ESO devs to please make no changes based on pure opinion garbage like this post and other threads. Let the players enjoy the game.

Bads are bads. Please don't make changes for a few at the expense of many.

Kypho · May 2014

limeli8 wrote: »

This is for all the ones that think NB is weak NB solo t2 VR dungeon (vr10 stuff that no other class can solo dk or sorc or templar) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJVgYs3MFA4
I am aware that a lot of nb skills don't work right (i've leveled NB to vr+) but i also think that NB class is a lot more complicated to learn than some others. Potentially it has the ability to be the strongest 1 on 1 class as well as a very good healer for groups. I chose to play a sorc due to knowing that in mass pvp in any game ranged attackers do best and i didn't want to use a bow otherwise i would've played an NB. Lol just earlier today got hit for 2k by some NB from stealth while i was looking at skills in cyro (yeah... don't ever relax in cyro).

OMG. if there is the "most boring crapplay" vote, you get 100% votes for this. You have lot time dude. LMAO at this video. Problem is the weak ai.

Kypho · May 2014

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

A. People who are building NB's with full medium and duel wield, This works great if you're fighting 1 mob or player in PvP..Just like every other class that does this (DK for example) However this is not super amazing in groups besides being decent ranged single target nuker. This is not limited to NB's... That's just how that setup is.

B. If you want to be good in groups, or kills lots of mobs....Light Armor with Destruction Staff, this works on pretty much every single class, including NB's.

Quit building your class as a solo ganker, then wondering why you can't do anything but solo gank.

THIS is the most stupid idea of ppl, who trying to play Elder Scroll game. Or the most stupid developers who made Elder Scroll game, what is not worth for the name. Why? Because you should be able to melee just as good as spam some fancy OP aoe crap. Its not how a game should be played. Not just spam spam spam the aoe spam it more to win. No.... Maybe in GW or whatever crapmmo, but if its ES then not.
Solo gank? wow. Duel would be a gank then. And what is aoe spamming noskillcrap? It is the solo gank, not when you attack alone one opponent.

williams226 · May 2014

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

williams226 wrote: »

why not just wear a leather looking disguise over the top of your robes.

Is there a disguise that changes a caster-type gameplay experience to an assassin-type gameplay experience? :P

you might have to wear the uber disguise and throw away your staff for that

Head.hunter · May 2014

The video here shows that dk's are great for dungeons and most pve content, and even most nightblades that try to pvp dk's melee will have some trouble, but a nb with a bow and health regen, combined with invis escape tactics can wear down many an opponent. It's hard to hit you people sometimes.

Bwt the dk in this vid is spamming his ult for every mob (does tons of aoe damage), and in general you can't use it that consistently. In a pvp scenario players would just get out of range.

ArgonianAssassin · May 2014

NordJitsu wrote: »

The Nightblade skills are fixed in 1.1, which is live on the PTS.

I've tested it. I built a nasty Nightblade.

The problem with this class is simply that so many things are bugged and not working right. Nothing really needs to be buffed or changed dramatically for them to be viable. Just get things working like they're supposed to and you'll notice a marked power increase.

They've already done that...sooooo...yay?

The only changes I'd like to see is an increase on the target cap for Fear (2 targets is absurdly, laughably, and horribly low) and perhaps the addition of some synergies to various skills, making Nightblades better members of groups.

Oh also....Path Of Dakness. Needs a big rework or just replace it with something useful.

I don't get the hate for path I'm leveling a new NB tank at the moment and Refreshing Path is my go to skill, it keeps me alive and does damage like no other, if anything I'd prefer it to be a big circle rather then a straight line, because it's just clumsy to have to flank any enemy to get into my own healing aoe but I don't find it to be that much of an issue if I just open up with path from range, which also looks badass to pop path and sprint into a big group of enemies.

Sakiri · May 2014

neocomab16_ESO wrote: »

Okay guys ...I said it once, or several times and I say it again. And of course I dont care about the passives that dont work because that doesnt matter right now.

A good amount of people just dont want to play in a dress with a staff. If they were willing to do that they had picked a sorc. Srsly. If I wanted to wear a dress, I'd play a sorc. Screw diversity, I'm wired that way and so are others.
We all know thatdress plus staff works out pretty well but it also clearly shows the flaws in the basic system, that is magicka > all. And this sucks.

My sorc isnt even in a dress with a staff.

My DK is dw in plate.

I dont mind the dress but to hell with the staff unless I can beat people with it ala Morrowind.

My sorc uses a bow and medium armor. And claws. And teeth.

Chirru · May 2014

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Wreaken wrote: »

Instead of remaking this crappy thread, you could of saved yourself a lot of pain and read the patch notes for 1.1.

Well... I did read patch notes 1.1 What did I get as a NightBlade....

"You can no longer sneak past the boss guarding the Warrior’s Apex Stone. You must fight him like a true hero!"

Ah... so very much appreciated in addressing the many NB's woes. Great...well done indeed Z-Max.

My personal peeve and the greatest complaint I have concerning NB is the absolute lack of a valid escape mechanism. Once engaged in combat you are in combat until either the opposition is defeated...or the Char is dead.

This is fine for the DK because the class and its skills are designed for that. My DK just will stand...put up its flag and steam-roll pretty much everything that sneezes

The Sorc... easy... get into trouble, Teleport away...good by.

Templar ... don't know cause I never played one. But I play DK and Sorc

NB - a very broken class. If facing more than two opposition.... do NOT engage and run or you are dead. (yes I did watch the video of Veteran NB fighting three using shadows as distraction...the guy was a Vamp and in the end used Bats to survive).

There is just no way to disengage from combat for a NB (if anyone knows one tell me). Running is no option because Shadow Cloak does NOT break combat apart from being way too short. Spamming shadow cloak is not an option either and plainly a very silly move because it depletes magicka very quickly.

No breaking combat... NO sneak and hide.

As for Agony (a CC) it last 12 secs and takes 12 secs to cast, so it seems. Actually never timed it. (I can get a cup of coffee and go to the loo before the spell comes up). Because of its long casting time Agony is useless once in combat. It is fine to cast it before combat with one minor peeve... it breaks sneak once it has been cast.

Okay... in the end what is it all about for me? One lousy feature that is pretty much standard for a rogue in every other MMO ( have played 10 by now) A WAY OF ESCAPE, even if it is just playing dead. By all Stars... there are MMO's where the Scout Class can teleport entire groups out of trouble. And the ESO NB can not even get itself out of trouble . THAT STINKS!

Show me a valid way of escaping combat and I will be happy and shut up. No, an ultimate that comes up every 5 mins is not acceptable either.

Sakiri · May 2014

Evac! Man, so many times Ive hit that on accident..

Sypherioth · May 2014

Is there any plans to add more utility to the Nightblade class? I feel that this class is somewhat weaker than others in the sense that it has little versatility and anything this class can do, other classes can do just as well if not better. I love my V1 Nightblade, but I fear we just don’t match up to the other classes right now.

Yes. For patch 1.2, we are looking especially at helping to add flexibility to builds with some buffs to the lesser used abilities. For the nightblade, this includes abilities such as Master Assassin, Path of Darkness, Incapacitate, and more. I’m really looking forward to getting that patch out to everyone: I think you’ll be really excited about the changes.

glitchmaster999 · May 2014

Just going to drop the results of dps tests I have done. I played DDO for many years which many of you may know has an extremely complex build structure that ESO should strive to be as detailed in. I have multiple methods for testing dps in different forms such as single target burst, single target sustained, aoe burst and aoe sustained.

The single target dps, both burst and sustain was tested on a bugged out snake in Auridon that could neither die nor move. The tests showed that for single target burst (i.e. lots of damage done as quickly as possible) the nightblade managed a maximum of 2k combined with the highest burst combo I could find at vet1 ( this is without using things such as mob farming for spell damage), dragonknights burst was sitting at 2.4k. The single target sustained was even more rediculous, the night blade using both stamina and magicka spells at vet1 over a 30 second fight was getting around 650 dps which is pretty solid. Vet1 sorcerer was getting between 550 and 720 depending on crystal shard procs.

AOE was tested on daedra in coldharbor without fighters guild spells. It took a sorcerer around 5-6 seconds to kill 9 at lvl mobs, it took a dragonknight around 2 seconds, my nightblade uses an aoe build that can boost weapon damage to well into 200, and it was even with the sorcerer at 5-6 seconds while fully buffed w/ drain power and mark target.

Point is, Nightblades don't have any roll to really succeed in. I would suggest maybe a passive change that added:
"Successive attacks against the same target increase damage dealt against that target by 10%, stacks 3 times" or something of the like. Just make them the highest single target that they deserve to be. Another angle to approach it from would be to allow the stealth to grant sneak attack damage much like the first attack out of sneak. This would add a very unique mechanic to their game play and significantly balance out the dps in the areas that I feel it should be adjusted. Please comment if you have found any higher dps with the same kind of tests at vet1.

I just hope that ZOS fixes this quickly as a month is too long for the players that stay loyal to their favorite class to wait for them to hold their own in PVP and PVE alike.