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Fake tanks
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Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've tanked every normal with a glass cannon dps that slotted a taunt. So if you're in this position, try slotting inner fire and just block and dodge as needed. It's really not that difficult.
I would rather have a fake tank than a 50k hp tank in a normal or one who thinks it's a good idea to keep the group in combat constantly by running to the next pull before we finish the one we're on.
So we have to choose between one bad choice and another bad choice?
The fake tanks I have seen have tended to be fairly bad players to start with, and it is a huge assumption that fake tanks do not run ahead and start the next pull before the previous one is completed. So the choice is not very appropriate.
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Desiato✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I've tanked every normal with a glass cannon dps that slotted a taunt. So if you're in this position, try slotting inner fire and just block and dodge as needed. It's really not that difficult.
I would rather have a fake tank than a 50k hp tank in a normal or one who thinks it's a good idea to keep the group in combat constantly by running to the next pull before we finish the one we're on.
So we have to choose between one bad choice and another bad choice?
The fake tanks I have seen have tended to be fairly bad players to start with, and it is a huge assumption that fake tanks do not run ahead and start the next pull before the previous one is completed. So the choice is not very appropriate.
Nowhere did I imply there was a choice. That's the nature of the dungeon finder.
But we can choose to adapt to the circumstances presented to us and make the best of them.
Edited by Desiato on January 3, 2025 11:27PMspending a year dead for tax reasons0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭alpha_synuclein wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »It's not cute.
It's not cool.
It's not funny.
Well, it's kinda funny when they die
Even funnier when you silently agree with the other group members to kick them before the last boss, swap to a proper tank build (or tank/healer depending on what the content demands) and 3-man the boss. That way they keep dying and they waste a whole run worth of time. The screenshots of the hate whispers I got using this method take up a good half of my "ESO highlights" folder.
LOL.
I/we have never kicked a player because they were "fake" or even because they die a lot or their DPS, tanking, or healing leaves something to be desired. We kick players only if they are jerks through comments or actions and always wait until near the end unless they are unbearable.
When I queue with a couple of guildies to get one random to fill our group, I am the one who tends to type anything that needs to be said. As a result, I get the rage whispers, which tend to be very entertaining. I never reply unless the person seems to increase the value of entertainment.
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screamingabdabs✭✭✭I confess I'm surprised to see this subject appear again, however here is my take. There are too few real tanks in the game as the game does not encourage tanks until its too late. OK this is going to be a long post, but it strikes me that the issue is being discussed as; 'how do we stop fake tanks', rather than; 'why do we have fake tanks?'
What follows is an example new player’s progression through the game; not all players will experience it the same way, depending on their general knowledge of MMOs. However it highlights the problems as I see them. Oh I don't PVP that much, but I suspect the issues around changing sets I describe below are similar.
As a new player:
When you start the game you have a mixed mess of set items, whatever the game's RNG drops for you. You level so fast that there is little point in gathering a full set of anything and the overland sets change as you progress through the story. You will probably have only damage skills, with maybe a heal or two.
There are no quests that require the taunting of anything at all.
The tutorial does not mention or explain taunting at all.
Your 1st dungeons, if you play any, will probably be as a dd and you probably have not joined a guild as people are scary.
The beginner 4 player dungeons are easy to allow people to learn the roles, but are so easy that you generally do not need a tank, or indeed a healer.
As a more experienced level 50 to low CP player
If you roll an alt you have the same issues as a new player regarding set collection.
When on your main character: While you will, or should be, aware of the 3 roles, you are still not encouraged to learn tanking unless you specifically want to. This is in part true of healers; however you can back bar a healing staff to help you with soloing harder content, eg Craglorn/ world bosses. This gives a more obvious lead into the role of healer and probably explains why there are more healers in the game.
The armoury station
You may not be aware that the armoury station even exists as it is buried in the crown store and needs to be 'purchased'. Further this only comes with two slots with additional ones costing 1500 crowns. It also requires you to stand by it to switch your build. Yes you can get an armourer to summon, but they cost a further 5000 crowns. These purchases and usage requirement do little to encourage players to use the station. Besides that you will need to research what sets are useful for what role and right now there around 650 of them!
To misquote that great philosopher Garfield:People are lazy. You can bet that it was not a fitness fanatic that invented power steering.
Or to explain, you are unlikely to run a tank build in overland content as you want stuff to fall over a quickly as possible. You may have reasonable armour if you are currently struggling with some areas, but basically you are a dps. If you want to run a RND you will probably not bother to go back to the armoury station, if you have one at all. You will still have not tried to tank unless you really want to.
You now find the starter dungeons very easy to run as a 4 dd group. If you have purchased DLC (either when you bought the game, or separately) then you will still have to purchase the DLC dungeons in order to run them as they do not come with the associated chapter or dlc.
As a mid CP player
By now you will have got bored of the base game dungeons, you will probably be running trials with a guild, however may not be as people are scary. If you are you may be going through some as a healer. You may not be aware that healers can buff the group unless this has been explained to you. You will not be trying to tank unless you want to and the role has been explained to you. You may have tried to tank in a few pug runs, got screamed at as you don't understand the role and that could well have put you off the role as people are scary.
Now the real problems start.
Since you have purchased some DLC dungeons/chapters etc so you want to run them. However there are fewer players with these DLC because they have to be purchased. Thus you find queueing for them as a dd takes a long time, depending on the dungeon a very long time. You know that you can run base level dungeons as 4 dds, you may have your back bar heal set. You may even have a not great healer, but you know that queuing as tank means a faster queue and, well you can 4 dd a normal base level dungeon. You've probably run vet base dungeons as well. So the DLC ones will be the same. It won't matter if you enter as a fake tank.
Right?
Nope.
There is a gulf between the game's base dungeons and the DLC and an even bigger one between DLC and DLC hard mode. This is not explained anywhere by the game and you only find out if someone tells you or you go in and die a lot. You may only ever find out the latter way as people are scary.
From reading the various post on this thread its obvious that folk here now how to tank. You know how to heal. But ask your selves how you found out? I very much doubt it was just from playing the game.
There is a quote: "The greatest failure in intelligence is the belief that if I can’t do it, no one can". Which I am going to spin on its head and say: 'The greatest failure in understanding is the belief that if I can do it, everyone can."
Folk here know how to tank and know how to heal because you have taken the trouble in busy lives to find out. I had to for healing, though I confess I still cannot tank. So what is needed is not a way to punish people who do not have the same knowledge, but encourage them to find out and more importantly have fun doing so.
This has been a very long post and thank you to those who have got this far. here are my suggestions.
1. Add quests in the base game that require players to slot taunts. These could be quests that required you to protect someone or something. You have to taunt the bad guys otherwise they will go after whatever you are protecting and you will fail. This will introduce the concept of the taunt to new players and show how it works.
2. Add some quests where you have to heal someone so they can escape. As described above healing is an easier role to get into but this would not hurt (pun intended).
3. Add a quest at around level 40 that results in the player taking delivery of the armoury station, with an explanation on how to use it! Give access to the summonable armourer at a far lower purchase price, preferably for free.
4. At some lowish level add a quest or two where the player has to take a set of npcs through a 'dungeon’ as a tank. This could be reprised at level 50 and say mid level cp. Each time an NPC explains what the player needs to look out for.
All the above would require work by Zos. They have said that they want to experiment, well there are some suggestions. Lastly. I don’t know if folk here have tried to encourage other players to learn the 3 roles, but I feel this would help. It might even reduce the feeling that people are scary.
Thank you for your time.Edited by screamingabdabs on January 3, 2025 11:55PM8 -
KV_Tootn✭✭✭I'm one of the unluckiest tanks for getting fake healers that slow the groups down you'll ever meet. It's a meme in my guild. If I do an RND it'll take twice as long because the fake healer will slow the party down.
"But it's quicker" they shout, while laying dead on the floor at every boss on Wayrest 1 normal. No Gary, your DPS is shockingly bad and dead fake healers do not speed the god damned dungeon up.
Cant agree more .. As tank its a common problem right now
))) Your comment made me laugh TY Ork * Templar * CP1812 * DPS*Tank-fulltime
DK - Tank
High elf*Sorcerer*DPS
High elf*Arcanist*Dps3 -
Orbital78✭✭✭✭✭
✭xclassgaming wrote: »Fake roles should be reportable and bannable.
<sarcasm>Agreed, if you queue for content you're not ready for. Banhammer! No more free carries for fake dps! </sarcasm>Edited by Orbital78 on January 4, 2025 7:10PM8 -
JiubLeRepenti✭✭✭✭✭
✭xclassgaming wrote: »Fake roles should be reportable and bannable.
I agree as long as we can also report and ban DDs that have crappy DPS in HL group content.
Deal?BE/FR l PC EU l CP2700
TES III Morrowind biggest fan!
A little snail once told me there were no place for debate anymore.
Now, i'll simply MAKE FUN OF IT!2 -
Desiato✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭At the end of the day, a fake tank is just someone bad at their role. At a practical level, it's no different than getting a 5-10k dps damage dealer, which is just as common.
I was in Scriveners last night. My role was healer, I was playing a nightblade. As it was a normal dungeon, one bar was full dps and the other bar was healing.
The tank immediately stated they were accidentally fake and would leave.. I told them it was np and I would taunt -- in medium armor with less than 19k hp. I replaced barbed trap with inner fire and it was no problem. I tanked, healed everyone as needed and supplied 30% of the damage. Smooth run.
Only in Trials is ESO truly a "trinity mmo". In all other encounters, roles are extremely fluid.spending a year dead for tax reasons4 -
DenverRalphy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭At the end of the day, a fake tank is just someone bad at their role.
There's a distinct difference between "just someone bad at their role" and "someone who is intentionally bad at the role". One can't help themself, the other went out of the way to be that way for selfish reasons.
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Desiato✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DenverRalphy wrote: »At the end of the day, a fake tank is just someone bad at their role.
There's a distinct difference between "just someone bad at their role" and "someone who is intentionally bad at the role". One can't help themself, the other went out of the way to be that way for selfish reasons.
I think that for a DD to do 5-10k dps, they've tacitly chosen their level of performance by not endeavoring to learn how to improve at their role. But that's irrelevant because...
For me, as the person forced to deal with it, it is exactly the same, regardless of why.
From a wider pov, the onus is on the individual to prepare for the variety of circumstances they may face when choosing to play with random strangers.
I'm not trying to shame anyone. Everyone can play how they want. My argument has always been that this is pug life. One must make the best of the hand dealt to them.
Edit: to be clear, I'm talking about straight parse fights, not phased fights in which dps numbers get distorted...
Edited by Desiato on January 5, 2025 7:52AMspending a year dead for tax reasons2 -
Orbital78✭✭✭✭✭
✭DenverRalphy wrote: »At the end of the day, a fake tank is just someone bad at their role.
There's a distinct difference between "just someone bad at their role" and "someone who is intentionally bad at the role". One can't help themself, the other went out of the way to be that way for selfish reasons.
False they are one and the same.4 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've tanked every normal with a glass cannon dps that slotted a taunt. So if you're in this position, try slotting inner fire and just block and dodge as needed. It's really not that difficult.
I would rather have a fake tank than a 50k hp tank in a normal or one who thinks it's a good idea to keep the group in combat constantly by running to the next pull before we finish the one we're on.
So we have to choose between one bad choice and another bad choice?
The fake tanks I have seen have tended to be fairly bad players to start with, and it is a huge assumption that fake tanks do not run ahead and start the next pull before the previous one is completed. So the choice is not very appropriate.
Nowhere did I imply there was a choice. That's the nature of the dungeon finder.
But we can choose to adapt to the circumstances presented to us and make the best of them.
The preference of a fake tank vs a normal tank that behaves in a manner that is not desired does present two options even though it was not presented as a question. And both options are poor choices since fake tanks tend to be fairly poor DDs.
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M0ntie✭✭✭✭✭Post number 9,856 about fake tanks.
This won't change while ZoS don't care. If in the off chance someone from ZoS reads this and cares, here is a suggestion to address this.
Offer a bonus reward at the end of the dungeon using dungeon finder for performing the role you signed up for well. Make the reward a second weapon drop and 5 transmutes (for example):- If you queue with the role as tank, and you don't hold agrgo the most, you don't get the reward.
- If you queue with the role as healer and you don't heal the most, you don't get the reward.
- If you queue with the role as dps and you aren't in the top 2 dps done, you don't get the reward.
When I do a rando, I usually queue as healer (I main a healer so I know how to heal), and always a spam heal and a heal over time. If it is normal, my build is dps, with the 2+ heals. If I'm mainly tanking the boss, why should the selfish person who queued as a fake tank, who 9 times out of 10 is doing garbage dps while not holding agro, gets reward for being carried.3 -
xXSilverDragonXx✭✭✭✭✭The only solution I have found to dealing with this is hybrid buids. Using an addon like Dressing Room, I can set my character up to be a hybrid tank/heal/DPS. However, it is limited on DPS, but it contributed. It has priority healing and tanking skills, BUT if I queue into a random, I find it difficult to manage DLC dungeons depending on which ones. So I cannot be subbed to plus because there are too many of them now especially since I am a returning player who has no knowledge of the newest dungeons for the last 2-3 years.
This is the exact reason why people should not be forced into DLC dungeons. While I'm sure me brining this up can start all sorts of issues, many of these DLC dungeons required a tank that is aware of all the mechanics and has more solid experience in DLC dungeons or Trials as a tank than I do because the secondary problem is that plenty don't know the mechanics which makes for some chaos and death runs depending on the group you end up with. Unless some kind of magic has happened since I last did regular dungeon runs in early 2022, this would probably stil lbe the case. And until ESO decides to address this ridiculous situation in some meaningful way, I will not sub if for some reason I want to do dungeon runs. Or I will find someone who is not subbed and group with them but that means it is less convenient.
But maybe it's just a me thing. That is always possible. But for DLC dungeons, fake tanks or even a tank like me that is not fake but doesn't know or remember some of the mechanics it feels more like miserable hell runs. And I'm here for fun. Not suffering. Again, probably a me thing.0 -
JaxontheUnfortunate✭✭✭✭I generally tank the random normals though I am usually on my selfish tank build as I can't rely on proper DPS or heals, and reserve my proper rank build for trials or guild events, or if it's a good pug group I will swap builds to make the run easier.0 -
Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
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Real tanks won't notice 50% extra damage from dungeon monsters and bosses(except the big telegraphed hits, but these shouldn't have their damage increased anyways), even while leveling my alts to 50 in found gear I was tanking easily and barely taking damage. The only ones who would notice this extra damage taken, is fake tanks.
Yes, I basically only play tanks when doing dungeons(selfish tank with 1.5k dps myself, basically never experience low dps). Have pugged every dungeon, and have done all vet HM's with pugs. Except for the newer dlc dungeons, as I have stopped playing dungeons entirely due to fake roles.May I ask you a question?.. Have you tanked before? New dungeon bosses hit really hard, especially on vet (yes, even in heavy armor, through block and when getting healed), and some have mechanics that punish dodging their heavies. The idea of 50% extra damage taken would just drive any remaining tanks away from group finder, and if this would be game-wide, from the game.
Then what makes you think that making the role 50% harder would encourage people to be real tanks? I honestly don't understand. It is already a difficult role, especially if you use buff sets/ults.
By making tanking more restrictive and boring (auto-taunt), you'd just make people less likely to queue and they will probably just swap to rewards for the worthy as their preferred method of farming transmutes. If you want more tanks, you'd need to make the role more fun and appealing, not less.
None of my proposed solutions would scare away a real tank:
*90% damage loss... real tanks barely do any dps anyways. (this can be compensated by changing dungeons to 5-man groups with 3 dps players)
*Auto-taunting bosses... real tanks taunt bosses anyways. Won't affect real tanks.
*50% extra damage taken: Real tanks won't notice this at all, tanks are supposed to be able to take hits.
The only thing these role specific features would do, is enforce the role the 'tank' signed up for. Tanking!
PS: Have tried buff sets, but the DD's do much more dps if they can fully focus on their rotation instead of running around and doing 15% extra damage while attacking 70% less. For this to work, the tank needs to taunt everything, and should be able to take all the hits. (this is also why I often say low dps is mostly the fault of those tanking, as I barely ever experience low dps)0 -
Franchise408✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oceanchanter wrote: »
You can taunt the boss, you can aggro the boss with damage, you can have a cup of tea with the boss, you can date the boss then break it's heart on it's birthday after 5 years together and cancel it's plans on living together the day after it got the job of his life in the area.
For me, a healer, as long as the boss doesn't chase me around and there's something left to heal - it's fine.
This is oddly specific.2 -
BananaBender✭✭✭✭✭
Real tanks won't notice 50% extra damage from dungeon monsters and bosses(except the big telegraphed hits, but these shouldn't have their damage increased anyways), even while leveling my alts to 50 in found gear I was tanking easily and barely taking damage. The only ones who would notice this extra damage taken, is fake tanks.
Yes, I basically only play tanks when doing dungeons(selfish tank with 1.5k dps myself, basically never experience low dps). Have pugged every dungeon, and have done all vet HM's with pugs. Except for the newer dlc dungeons, as I have stopped playing dungeons entirely due to fake roles.May I ask you a question?.. Have you tanked before? New dungeon bosses hit really hard, especially on vet (yes, even in heavy armor, through block and when getting healed), and some have mechanics that punish dodging their heavies. The idea of 50% extra damage taken would just drive any remaining tanks away from group finder, and if this would be game-wide, from the game.
Then what makes you think that making the role 50% harder would encourage people to be real tanks? I honestly don't understand. It is already a difficult role, especially if you use buff sets/ults.
By making tanking more restrictive and boring (auto-taunt), you'd just make people less likely to queue and they will probably just swap to rewards for the worthy as their preferred method of farming transmutes. If you want more tanks, you'd need to make the role more fun and appealing, not less.
None of my proposed solutions would scare away a real tank:
*90% damage loss... real tanks barely do any dps anyways. (this can be compensated by changing dungeons to 5-man groups with 3 dps players)
*Auto-taunting bosses... real tanks taunt bosses anyways. Won't affect real tanks.
*50% extra damage taken: Real tanks won't notice this at all, tanks are supposed to be able to take hits.
The only thing these role specific features would do, is enforce the role the 'tank' signed up for. Tanking!
PS: Have tried buff sets, but the DD's do much more dps if they can fully focus on their rotation instead of running around and doing 15% extra damage while attacking 70% less. For this to work, the tank needs to taunt everything, and should be able to take all the hits. (this is also why I often say low dps is mostly the fault of those tanking, as I barely ever experience low dps)
These changes would make tanking insanely boring, pretty much just forcing you to spam shields and heals, because nothing else would really do anything. As a tank you are not supposed to just spam heals and shields, in fact you are you only supposed to use them only as much as you need them. Over casting heals and shields does literally nothing for you, and in normal dungeons you don't take any real damage. So why would you even tank a normal dungeon when you are only there to stand around?
There should be someone with a taunt in a dungeon, but normal dungeons do not require a 'real tank', so why would one be forced on players?6 -
irswat✭✭✭✭Ever seen the dps with sword and board who LA spam like an NPC? Or heavy attack ice staff DPS?0
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MidniteOwl1913✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BananaBender wrote: »DenverRalphy wrote: »MorganaLaVey wrote: »
I already replied to this earlier in this thread, apparently you missed that. Fake DPS dont pose as DPS to skip the queue, but to skip the learning process, very intentionally.DenverRalphy wrote: »Fake tanks? What about fake DDs? They are much more prevalent
No. No there are not by any stretch of the imagination.
Literally nobody intentionally queues up dps when they know they're not supposed to to bump their position in line. They might not be any good at being a dps, might be inexperienced and simply not know how support mechanics work and that dps should avoid using them in group content. Or any other twisted definitition or rationalization players on this forum can dream up. The simple fact is, nobody, seriously nobody, intentionally fake poses as DPS to jump the queue.
I didn't miss it. Your premise was just flawed. What you described were instances of players just being, well bad.
The whole premise behind Fake Tank/Fake Heals, is to jump the queue. It's impossible to jump the queue by faking the DPS role, because all that accomplishes is moving you further back in line.
I would define someone faking their role by not playing the role they queued as, not as someone who isn't filling their role only to que in faster.
In my mind if you joined the dungeon as a damage dealer and you are not dealing damage, you are a fake DD.
This a semantics issue. So if they are a fake DD what are they? THere are only 3 roles, if they aren't a DD then they must be a healer or a tank.
PS5/NA1 -
AzuraFan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Offer a bonus reward at the end of the dungeon using dungeon finder for performing the role you signed up for well. Make the reward a second weapon drop and 5 transmutes (for example):- If you queue with the role as tank, and you don't hold agrgo the most, you don't get the reward.
- If you queue with the role as healer and you don't heal the most, you don't get the reward.
- If you queue with the role as dps and you aren't in the top 2 dps done, you don't get the reward.
That wouldn't work. Let's say you're a DPS with decent damage, but you end up in a dungeon with a fake tank and a fake healer, who also have decent damage. Now you have four DPS in the dungeon. Let's say you come in third because two of the group members beat you by a small amount. Penalizing you for being third wouldn't be fair. You're not the one who queued inappropriately for your role.Edited by AzuraFan on January 6, 2025 9:38PM4 -
BananaBender✭✭✭✭✭MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »BananaBender wrote: »DenverRalphy wrote: »MorganaLaVey wrote: »
I already replied to this earlier in this thread, apparently you missed that. Fake DPS dont pose as DPS to skip the queue, but to skip the learning process, very intentionally.DenverRalphy wrote: »Fake tanks? What about fake DDs? They are much more prevalent
No. No there are not by any stretch of the imagination.
Literally nobody intentionally queues up dps when they know they're not supposed to to bump their position in line. They might not be any good at being a dps, might be inexperienced and simply not know how support mechanics work and that dps should avoid using them in group content. Or any other twisted definitition or rationalization players on this forum can dream up. The simple fact is, nobody, seriously nobody, intentionally fake poses as DPS to jump the queue.
I didn't miss it. Your premise was just flawed. What you described were instances of players just being, well bad.
The whole premise behind Fake Tank/Fake Heals, is to jump the queue. It's impossible to jump the queue by faking the DPS role, because all that accomplishes is moving you further back in line.
I would define someone faking their role by not playing the role they queued as, not as someone who isn't filling their role only to que in faster.
In my mind if you joined the dungeon as a damage dealer and you are not dealing damage, you are a fake DD.
This a semantics issue. So if they are a fake DD what are they? THere are only 3 roles, if they aren't a DD then they must be a healer or a tank.
Depends on the player. I've seen some people as DDs on full heavy armor 50k HP with resto staff back bar doing 3k dps. I don't care what you classify that build as, but it sure is not a DD.4 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
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Nope, never an issue with healers, only bad damage dealers who think they're entitled to waste a tank's time.Oceanchanter wrote: »I bet some tanks have fake healer stories as well.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP metas3 -
Ezhh✭✭✭✭✭
✭Offer a bonus reward at the end of the dungeon using dungeon finder for performing the role you signed up for well. Make the reward a second weapon drop and 5 transmutes (for example):- If you queue with the role as tank, and you don't hold agrgo the most, you don't get the reward.
- If you queue with the role as healer and you don't heal the most, you don't get the reward.
- If you queue with the role as dps and you aren't in the top 2 dps done, you don't get the reward.
That wouldn't work. Let's say you're a DPS with decent damage, but you end up in a dungeon with a fake tank and a fake healer, who also have decent damage. Now you have four DPS in the dungeon. Let's say you come in third because two of the group members beat you by a small amount. Penalizing you for being third wouldn't be fair. You're not the one who queued inappropriately for your role.
Immediately had the same thought. I and some friends will often just slot taunt and maybe a chain on a DD build for normals and have zero issue taunting and stacking while still outputting decent amounts of damage. The damage we do wouldn't beat another experienced DD, because we're giving up GCDs on some tanking actions, but it would certainly come in ahead of low experienced or more casual players who don't push their abilities doing things like duo DLC dungeon HMs and so on like we do. I could potentially steal someone's DD reward while still getting my tank one with no issues in a situation like this.0 -
Reginald_leBlem✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you are sick of fake tanks, make a tank and que on it. It's that simple.
You will occasionally get a dd that didn't read a tool tip and doesn't realize a skill they slotted is a tank skill, but it's rare.
If everyone complaining about fake tanks made a tank and played it, it would completely solve the issue.2 -
Franchise408✭✭✭✭✭
✭Reginald_leBlem wrote: »If you are sick of fake tanks, make a tank and que on it. It's that simple.
You will occasionally get a dd that didn't read a tool tip and doesn't realize a skill they slotted is a tank skill, but it's rare.
If everyone complaining about fake tanks made a tank and played it, it would completely solve the issue.
Well nobody wants to do that. Everybody wants to have the glory of playing DPS and tell all the tanks how they should be playing their characters.4 -
MidniteOwl1913✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AS a healer I'm a lot less bothered by low DPS than a lack of taunt from the "tank". I can't support anyone if I'm busy running away from the boss all the time. I don't care if low DPS makes things take longer, if I have a real tank I can keep the party alive while they work.
And it's not just the fakes who ruin the run by failing to taunt, many of the fakers quit when they realize it's Scribner's Hall and not Fungal Grotto. *That* takes time because the wait for a tank can be long. Mostly the group just quits because it faster to deal with the time penalty.
Fakes hurt the whole system.
Edited by MidniteOwl1913 on January 7, 2025 12:01AMPS5/NA3 -
Oceanchanter✭✭✭Reginald_leBlem wrote: »If you are sick of fake tanks, make a tank and que on it. It's that simple.
You will occasionally get a dd that didn't read a tool tip and doesn't realize a skill they slotted is a tank skill, but it's rare.
If everyone complaining about fake tanks made a tank and played it, it would completely solve the issue.
I would be complaining about fake healers instead.0 -
Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
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Tanking is never boring, you can do many things while tanking! Buffing/debuffing. checking the next group, looking for heavy sacks/chests, seeing if you can go faster, check resources of the group, etc.BananaBender wrote: »
Real tanks won't notice 50% extra damage from dungeon monsters and bosses(except the big telegraphed hits, but these shouldn't have their damage increased anyways), even while leveling my alts to 50 in found gear I was tanking easily and barely taking damage. The only ones who would notice this extra damage taken, is fake tanks.
Yes, I basically only play tanks when doing dungeons(selfish tank with 1.5k dps myself, basically never experience low dps). Have pugged every dungeon, and have done all vet HM's with pugs. Except for the newer dlc dungeons, as I have stopped playing dungeons entirely due to fake roles.May I ask you a question?.. Have you tanked before? New dungeon bosses hit really hard, especially on vet (yes, even in heavy armor, through block and when getting healed), and some have mechanics that punish dodging their heavies. The idea of 50% extra damage taken would just drive any remaining tanks away from group finder, and if this would be game-wide, from the game.
Then what makes you think that making the role 50% harder would encourage people to be real tanks? I honestly don't understand. It is already a difficult role, especially if you use buff sets/ults.
By making tanking more restrictive and boring (auto-taunt), you'd just make people less likely to queue and they will probably just swap to rewards for the worthy as their preferred method of farming transmutes. If you want more tanks, you'd need to make the role more fun and appealing, not less.
None of my proposed solutions would scare away a real tank:
*90% damage loss... real tanks barely do any dps anyways. (this can be compensated by changing dungeons to 5-man groups with 3 dps players)
*Auto-taunting bosses... real tanks taunt bosses anyways. Won't affect real tanks.
*50% extra damage taken: Real tanks won't notice this at all, tanks are supposed to be able to take hits.
The only thing these role specific features would do, is enforce the role the 'tank' signed up for. Tanking!
PS: Have tried buff sets, but the DD's do much more dps if they can fully focus on their rotation instead of running around and doing 15% extra damage while attacking 70% less. For this to work, the tank needs to taunt everything, and should be able to take all the hits. (this is also why I often say low dps is mostly the fault of those tanking, as I barely ever experience low dps)
These changes would make tanking insanely boring, pretty much just forcing you to spam shields and heals, because nothing else would really do anything. As a tank you are not supposed to just spam heals and shields, in fact you are you only supposed to use them only as much as you need them. Over casting heals and shields does literally nothing for you, and in normal dungeons you don't take any real damage. So why would you even tank a normal dungeon when you are only there to stand around?
There should be someone with a taunt in a dungeon, but normal dungeons do not require a 'real tank', so why would one be forced on players?
Normal dungeons DO need a real tank, as that is where players learn how to tank. And in return, other players can learn their heal and dps roles too! Just because some players feel normals do not require a real tank, does not mean there shouldn't be a real tank. This is screwing up the entire difficulty growth for all players. Yet these same players complain when 'bad' players do veteran dungeons and don't know what to do in there, when they themselves are causing 'bad' players without any knowhow to queue up for those.
ZOS should enforce the roles and make dungeon on-rails, to remove the fake roles and create a friendly MMO environment for everyone. Where everyone can learn.
PS: Speedrunning vs normally doing a dungeon is only about a minute or two/three difference in total, especially in the base game normal dungeons. There is no reason or excuse for players to be making the dungeon experience so toxic for many others.
PPS: Fake roles are just cheating to skip the line!1
