StaticWave wrote: »

Most of you are complaining about 1 Sorc spec (Mag stacking Sorc with Hardened Ward). I can guarantee with you right now 99% of you will not do very well on a shieldless Sorc in Cyrodiil. I know this for a fact because I've played Stamsorc for years and rarely see Stamsorc in Cyrodiil at all. The ones that still play are either really good at the class or just good players in general. They will excel at any class.

There is no need to complain about Dark Deal, Mages' Wrath, Streak, etc. Those are all l2p issues if you can't deal with them. The actual issue is magsorc being too tanky and that's been partially addressed by Ward nerf (which btw I strongly advocated for). Just address Ward further to make magsorc less tanky but not trash and we won't have this issue anymore.

Not often but this time I agree to you.

Between U35 and ~U40 nobody (except the usual NB-Sorc love-hates) had problems with streak and DD and most sorcs were not a problem for everybody. It was mostly the opposite and many players agreed that sorc needed some help.
Streak received no change since then - but now it's to OP even if the speed increased over all the years?
DD became a bit and was ok then - but not OP. Now its OP without any further buffs?
The real problem started with the buff of +10% maxmag/stam and hardend ward in the same update.

So now sorc is the flavor of the month year and everybody claims about everything from sorcs.
(even frags and overload are to strong now)
So ZOS should remove the heal or reduce the +10% or take it away completely (but then give back originally +10% health)
and not change skills which were ok since the major buff update.

But because of ZOS history I fear they will listen to all this and/or with the new skills for cyro it will end with a sorc without identity and fun. But I don't play PvP anyway since all the buffs and only the reason will change why I don't play
From OP to streakless or funless or whatever they will do...

StaticWave wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

With hybridization, there's nothing stopping a magsorc from running something like a buffed Bound Armaments.

There is and it's called bar space issue. If you're running Hardened Ward, there is no bar space for you to fit Bound Armaments. You need Bound Aegis morph, which automatically removes Bound Armament from the equation.

If you're using a shieldless build, then there is still no bar space because you need to fit Vigor + a burst heal like Vibrant Shroud, which take up 2 bar slots and requires 2 GCDs compared to just having Bound Aegis on your bar passively providing those stat buffs and spamming Ward. It's a more efficient defensive rotation.

Bound Armaments also gives 8% max stam, meaning you just have this 8% max stam passive that's sitting there for no reason. Your stats will be all over the place and you won't maximize damage. At that point, you're better off going bowsorc or stamsorc.

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Similarly, if you're intentionally playing a build without Streak or Hardened Ward, is that a "stamsorc" or just a bad sorc build?

Streakless and Wardless stamsorc works. What do you think every other class is playing? Vibrant Shroud is a very competitive burst heal and Race Against Time replaces Streak pretty well. That will make the build very viable for PvP, but it won't make it efficient like a NB or Warden simply due to their efficient bar space and skills providing multiple important buffs.

I understand why magsorcs don't currently run Bound Armaments. You're the one who has a whole thread about how it needs to be buffed and the max stam bonus needs to be replaced. It won't take much of a buff for it to suddenly become worth the bar space and loss of Bound Aegis. That's how builds work these days, you just take the best skills available to you, (almost) regardless of whether they're intended for mag or stam.

Relatedly, if "Streakless and Wardless stamsorc works" so well, why do you have a thread asking for Bound Armaments buffs, and a whole bunch of posts elsewhere complaining about how weak stamsorc is?

In the hybrid era, you can't really separate mag builds from stam builds because buffs to one will almost inevitably buff the other. It's time to just embrace the hybrid dystopia.

Zabagad wrote: »

Between U35 and ~U40 nobody (except the usual NB-Sorc love-hates) had problems with streak and DD and most sorcs were not a problem for everybody. It was mostly the opposite and many players agreed that sorc needed some help.
Streak received no change since then - but now it's to OP even if the speed increased over all the years?
DD became a bit and was ok then - but not OP. Now its OP without any further buffs?
The real problem started with the buff of +10% maxmag/stam and hardend ward in the same update.

This one

One should not forget that after receiving the passive +10% Max Mag/Stam buff, stacking Max Mag has become especially effective for Mag Sorc. In addition to increasing the strength of the Ward, Max Mag also significantly boosts the damage of a Mag Sorc to the point where they typically do not need to invest in Spell Damage or Penetration.

One potential option for a nerf or rework of Mag Sorcs could involve changing Bound Aegis, where the passive +8% Max Magicka buff might be removed and replaced with some kind of active buff or effect.

StaticWave wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Most of you are complaining about 1 Sorc spec (Mag stacking Sorc with Hardened Ward). I can guarantee with you right now 99% of you will not do very well on a shieldless Sorc in Cyrodiil. I know this for a fact because I've played Stamsorc for years and rarely see Stamsorc in Cyrodiil at all. The ones that still play are either really good at the class or just good players in general. They will excel at any class.

There is no need to complain about Dark Deal, Mages' Wrath, Streak, etc. Those are all l2p issues if you can't deal with them. The actual issue is magsorc being too tanky and that's been partially addressed by Ward nerf (which btw I strongly advocated for). Just address Ward further to make magsorc less tanky but not trash and we won't have this issue anymore.

Imagine if you will, people disliked streak and other aspects of the sorc kit before the last set of sorc buffs, for multiple reasons.
I know this isn't the thread for it, but it is also not necessary to try and invalidate other opinions by saying "streak wasn't even buffed and these fools still think it is too strong" (excuse me for paraphrasing).

I would agree with you if it was 4 years ago. There is no reason for anybody to complain about Streak right now when:

1) Movement speed makes chasing Sorcs a piece of cake
2) Movement speed makes avoiding Streak a piece of cake
3) Movement speed is super easy to get

Stacking movement speed also helps you evade zergs and land melee attacks easier during lag. It's beneficial for all scenarios, not like using Camo Hunter or Detect potions to counter Cloak (which isn't beneficial for all scenarios).

Maybe there's a case if they're new to the game and don't know about those counters yet. If they've been playing for a while and still haven't built movement speed to counter Streak, then I don't think their position is strong.

Avoiding streak is a luxury that melee player don't really have. You can pop it up close with a very forgiving radius and it is still easy to hit an already moving target within a certain range, or even a more distant target with proper aim/movement prediction. It just does so much for an unblockable & undodgeable stun with built-in gap closer.
Funnily enough the "building for it" - counterplay has often been used to argue against abilities like cloak, but speed still doesn't serve as guaranteed counter (as reasoned above). Also, due to sorcs short cd burst loop, nothing stops you from retrying on the spot.
Yes, you can try to remain at range to not fall prey to streak-ensured burst, but then you are also just allowing the sorc to reset at will or out-pressure you if you are on a melee build.

Let another 4 years pass and I still won't find it appropriate.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Like for example I made a thread asking for Ward nerf, not nerf the entire class.

In that same thread you acknowledged that the entire class was banned from a dueling tournament.

Melee StamSorcs don't need to spam Streak unless they're doing exactly what players are complaining about ITT, the disengage/reengage shenanigans. The better melee NB players survived the Cloak nerf just fine, you'd be fine even if they nerfed Streak down to par with the Arc portal. Sorc would be what, A tier at worst?

I'm one of those better NB players (not the best by far) and I partially like the change but overall no. It's nice to not have to his cloak every few seconds but my problem is I forget to turn the darn thing off! Streak is a sorc core class skill, although I hate getting streaked in to it's their bread and butter like cloak us a NB's. Leave it alone and just learn to not fight them in the open is how you defeat them.

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

Here we go again with this conversation. Haha. We all know that a max mag sorcerer is the most powerful class in the game. If it wasn't, we wouldn't see so many of them and the meta chasers wouldn't run them like they do. They have everything. Mobility with AOE stun, the ability to tank multiple players attacks while being offensive, and enough damage to take out max resistance players with 1-2 combos. It's the easy button. It comes with 25k tool tips for crystal fragment procs that no one seems to be talking about. Instead we talk about "MuH MeRcILEsS rEsOlVe"

When talking about sorcerer heals, why do so many people forget that sorc already had a burst heal from Matriarch? Is it because of the double bar inconvenience?

It's fine for a class to be strong, but it doesn't need to be so much stronger than every other one.

First, I’ve never seen a 25k tooltip for Crystal Frags in PvP that came without sacrificing something. Merciless Resolve has a built-in weapon/spell damage buff on a class with the capacity to crit at will.

Second, Sorc isn’t that strong. I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. The majority (not all, but the majority) of people wiping the floor with you on Sorc could most likely do it on another class. Sorc is popular, so you’re seeing a lot of them, which means more skilled players on Sorc.

I’ll admit that when the Ward change first occurred, Sorc was a menace. But now? The only thing that bothers me about Sorcs is how easily they can run away when I’m killing them.

Saying that Sorc has everything is patently false. If you can run down a Streaking Sorc, you can most likely kill them because they tanked their magicka running away. If your defenses are high enough, you can survive their burst because most builds have got little to no penetration. Overload is such a buggy mess, I’m not even sure why that factors in to why Sorc is broken, but if you can dodge roll, you can avoid Overloaded light attacks.

Now you made me really mad.

"people wiping the floor with you on Sorc could most likely do it on another class"

This is the biggest lie I heard since I'm plaing this game.

I duel in bergama houndreds of hours. Most duels I wipe the floor with every class I fight, the exception is sorcerer, and 1v1 isnt best scenario for sorc, in open world sorc is even stronger.

Also I fight many ppl that play every class, and gues what? They can beat me playing sorc, but when they log on other classes I destroy them.

And about 20k frags, here you have them:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/652181/magicka-sorcerer-pvp-domination/p1

Can you please send me video of 20k backlashes, whips, or maybe deep fissures?

StaticWave wrote: »

There is a cost and it’s called ramping cost. If you want to address 50k max mag sorcs spamming streak then address their ability to stack max mag. Why should my spec suffer lol? I have 20k mag and I can barely use it 3 times before I’m out of mag.

Could the devs restrict Streak spam to melee StamSorcs and only nerf the mobility of ranged Sorcs? Maybe? Fine with me. Maybe wielding any ranged weapon should limit anyone's mobility in general...

And running SnB in a PvP zone will permamently root you in place.

Nevermind let's ban all weapons from PvP except DW and 2h. Just fixed the tank meta and the range spam meta.

Streak's been the same for years. Either out-sustain them or just leave. It's more of a hit to their ego if you just refuse to engage rather than chase.
Endless Fury/Mage's Wrath as also been the same for years.
Idc if Hardened Ward has its heal removed, but it ain't what it used to be. Shields used to be unable to be crit on and had no health cap, and before that that, they lasted for a long LONG time.
As for Overload cheese, it's just what the sweats do.

Crying for sorc nerfs when overtuned WARDEN has been pretty much the same for patches is something.

StaticWave wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Most of you are complaining about 1 Sorc spec (Mag stacking Sorc with Hardened Ward). I can guarantee with you right now 99% of you will not do very well on a shieldless Sorc in Cyrodiil. I know this for a fact because I've played Stamsorc for years and rarely see Stamsorc in Cyrodiil at all. The ones that still play are either really good at the class or just good players in general. They will excel at any class.

There is no need to complain about Dark Deal, Mages' Wrath, Streak, etc. Those are all l2p issues if you can't deal with them. The actual issue is magsorc being too tanky and that's been partially addressed by Ward nerf (which btw I strongly advocated for). Just address Ward further to make magsorc less tanky but not trash and we won't have this issue anymore.

Imagine if you will, people disliked streak and other aspects of the sorc kit before the last set of sorc buffs, for multiple reasons.
I know this isn't the thread for it, but it is also not necessary to try and invalidate other opinions by saying "streak wasn't even buffed and these fools still think it is too strong" (excuse me for paraphrasing).

I would agree with you if it was 4 years ago. There is no reason for anybody to complain about Streak right now when:

1) Movement speed makes chasing Sorcs a piece of cake
2) Movement speed makes avoiding Streak a piece of cake
3) Movement speed is super easy to get

Stacking movement speed also helps you evade zergs and land melee attacks easier during lag. It's beneficial for all scenarios, not like using Camo Hunter or Detect potions to counter Cloak (which isn't beneficial for all scenarios).

Maybe there's a case if they're new to the game and don't know about those counters yet. If they've been playing for a while and still haven't built movement speed to counter Streak, then I don't think their position is strong.

Avoiding streak is a luxury that melee player don't really have. You can pop it up close with a very forgiving radius and it is still easy to hit an already moving target within a certain range, or even a more distant target with proper aim/movement prediction. It just does so much for an unblockable & undodgeable stun with built-in gap closer.
Funnily enough the "building for it" - counterplay has often been used to argue against abilities like cloak, but speed still doesn't serve as guaranteed counter (as reasoned above). Also, due to sorcs short cd burst loop, nothing stops you from retrying on the spot.
Yes, you can try to remain at range to not fall prey to streak-ensured burst, but then you are also just allowing the sorc to reset at will or out-pressure you if you are on a melee build.

Let another 4 years pass and I still won't find it appropriate.

Building for Streak is as easy as using 2x Swift. Building for Cloak requires sacrificing a whole bar slot and/or potions. Building for Streak also allows you to counter other builds. Building for Cloak only allows you to counter Cloak. They aren’t remotely equal. I’m sure you understand that.

If that would truly be enough I'd agree, but the angles at which streak stuns have registered on me just tell another story. Also I wasn't trying to make this about cloak, rather the substance of the argument. I don't care if cloak has to burn in hell, if that means streak won't annoy me all day I'll take that deal any time.