Do you want DKs nerfed because you feel it’s unfair that Sorcs and NBs can’t use their abilities while interacting with objectives? Or do you want DKs nerfed because you feel it’s unfair that their Battle Roar passive gives them an advantage in combat? Because those are two different issues. You can run a Chaosball or stand on a flag without ever touching another player, and you can turn a BG into a slaughterhouse without going near an objective.

If the issue is survivability, sustain, and the capacity to stand on an objective and not die, I’ll remind you that NB has one of (if not the) best burst heals in the game, Sorc has a shield that could tank a nuke, and both classes have resource sustain up the wazoo.

It can seem like it’s unfair for DKs to press one button and get all their health back. But they can’t do it all the time. If you’re fighting a DK and they leap on you for Battle Roar, just try to burst them down again. Keep the pressure on them. Get help if you have to. Just as NB has counters, so does every other class in the game, even if the counter is as simple as ‘do more damage’.

I saw you get over 30 kills on your sniperblade in a BG earlier today, I think you'll figure out how to adapt :P

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

I mean you can run a chaosball, sure, but you can't streak with one.
You can stand on an objective without seeing another player, but being invisible on one doesn't do a thing.

Yes, because of the reasons I laid out earlier. It would literally be unfair.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

You can slam sustain and healing on those types of objectives, of course. To which I'll give you that regarding the shields and burst heals of the classes you mention.

But burst heal don't mean crap if you don't have the resources to cast that stuff.

I know. But my point was that resource sustain is as easy for NB and Sorc as it is for DK. In fact, it’s actually easier. You can spam Dark Deal and Siphoning Attacks to your heart’s content. DKs can’t spam Ultimates for Battle Roar.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Gotta say I really like the design of a single skill that both stuns, after which immobilizes, necessitating two break-free costs all in one skill-slot whose sequential break free's likely means a guaranteed Molten Whip proc to set someone off-balance. Massive resource attrition against opponents already on the class that themselves has great resource sustain. Seems like a real one-three punch there.

If you’re talking about Leap, it knocks you back and stuns you. You only need to break free once, then you can dodge roll or block the Whip. I wouldn’t call that resource attrition in the slightest. I will grant you that CC immunity in this game is janky. But that’s an issue of poor game function, not broken class design.

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

I mean you can run a chaosball, sure, but you can't streak with one.
You can stand on an objective without seeing another player, but being invisible on one doesn't do a thing.

Yes, because of the reasons I laid out earlier. It would literally be unfair.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

You can slam sustain and healing on those types of objectives, of course. To which I'll give you that regarding the shields and burst heals of the classes you mention.

But burst heal don't mean crap if you don't have the resources to cast that stuff.

I know. But my point was that resource sustain is as easy for NB and Sorc as it is for DK. In fact, it’s actually easier. You can spam Dark Deal and Siphoning Attacks to your heart’s content. DKs can’t spam Ultimates for Battle Roar.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Gotta say I really like the design of a single skill that both stuns, after which immobilizes, necessitating two break-free costs all in one skill-slot whose sequential break free's likely means a guaranteed Molten Whip proc to set someone off-balance. Massive resource attrition against opponents already on the class that themselves has great resource sustain. Seems like a real one-three punch there.

If you’re talking about Leap, it knocks you back and stuns you. You only need to break free once, then you can dodge roll or block the Whip. I wouldn’t call that resource attrition in the slightest. I will grant you that CC immunity in this game is janky. But that’s an issue of poor game function, not broken class design.

Also both dark deal and Siphoning attacks consume a GCD that doesn't involve stunning or dealing damage to your opponents.

Are.... Are you not aware of the importance of GCD efficacy?

With battle roar you have a GCD where you stun, deal damage, heal yourself, and restore resources.

With Dark Deal and Siphoning, you have GCD's where you deal damage to yourself and restore resources. (with further GCD's where you try to circumvent the damage you deal to yourself).

Some classes can do things better than other classes, that's the point of classes...

My very first PvP build, back in 2015, was a DK sustain build. The burst wasn't very high but could win any 1v1 by outlasting my opponent through damage over time and better resource management, that was the strength of DK. My next build was a NB burst build using two of the highest hitting skills in the game, because that is what they excel at.

I don't understand the point of this thread. Are you upset that one class can do something better than you? This is like being anooyed that a shotgun is better in close quarters than a rifle. My DK is better at carrying the ball but my NB is better at killing the ball carrier, them's the ropes.

DK already got nerfed in u34, u35, u37, u38 and u39(althought some DK haters claimed without evidence it got buffed every patch) but thought we were finally done with nerf DK request after corrosive nerf disabling ultigen while active in u40. But seems like not and nightblades(best class) now want to completely remove it from battlegrounds like it would be too OP to balance

NBs and especially Sorcerer are still the best class in batteground even with cloak and streak disabled and only in 2(chaosball and capture the relic) of 5 modi there even are objectives disabling them that you carry for a split of time if you dont let others do it for your team while in the remaining 3 there are non at all.

If you try cloak with chaosball and the chaosball stays visible other players know where you are anyway(only cant start their offense with single target attack) and if chaosball gets invisible too and vanishes from map it allows you to win the battleground without tanking or killing the enemy team ruining it for them so disabling it is necessary.

Streak is allowing Sorcs to move too fast to get hit by most players and therefore disabled like other teleporting skills including mistform, undo, shade, frozen and apocryphal gate.

Chaosball carriers running with increased speed too fast for anyone to catch is already complained about a lot and a major reason why chaosball and capture the relic were unpopular and considered unfun and the classes with the best movement speed increase+minor expedition are also sorcerer and nightblade (and templar on skill not used so only the former really)so they are fine and giving them streak and cloak would be OP.

DK like templar, warden, necro and arcanist has no strong movement tool and to rely on tankiness without necessarily beeing more tanky than nb and
sorc.
They only get ressoursses from battleroar when they have ulti and have to build for it and you cant build ulti in corrosive anymore. If you want battleror you can wear witchman set and get it yourself.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

moosegod wrote: »

Some classes can do things better than other classes, that's the point of classes...

My very first PvP build, back in 2015, was a DK sustain build. The burst wasn't very high but could win any 1v1 by outlasting my opponent through damage over time and better resource management, that was the strength of DK. My next build was a NB burst build using two of the highest hitting skills in the game, because that is what they excel at.

I don't understand the point of this thread. Are you upset that one class can do something better than you? This is like being anooyed that a shotgun is better in close quarters than a rifle. My DK is better at carrying the ball but my NB is better at killing the ball carrier, them's the ropes.

Well. Yes?

My consistent best source of sustained damage against ball carriers isn’t even using my own class skills. (Those get use defensively outside of interacting with the objective).

Snipe/LA/Elemental(before the LA hits to land all three at the same time) is by far some of the spikiest damage you can deal.

I can’t use my class defense against the same when carrying the ball, nor can Sorc (through their sheer mobility)

Because as you say:

Some classes can do things better than other classes.

And in this case, majorly because the game decides that no, I do not to get to use my class identity for this objective.

NB has the best class dmg skills and burst ultis, if you choose not to use them and rather use a guild and wpn skill combo that is your choice.

Many NBs only slot cloak for major savagery rarely using it and not slotted it at all before savagery was added, so there also seems to be other nb defense
than cloak.

Merciless resolve is strongest hardest hitting burst skill, concealed weapon one of the hardest hitting best spammables, incap a hard hitting burstulti with strong debuff making the other skills hitting even harder and soultheter the strongest aoe burst.

Iriidius wrote: »

DK already got nerfed in u34, u35, u37, u38 and u39(althought some DK haters claimed without evidence it got buffed every patch) but thought we were finally done with nerf DK request after corrosive nerf disabling ultigen while active in u40. But seems like not and nightblades(best class) now want to completely remove it from battlegrounds like it would be too OP to balance

NBs and especially Sorcerer are still the best class in batteground even with cloak and streak disabled and only in 2(chaosball and capture the relic) of 5 modi there even are objectives disabling them that you carry for a split of time if you dont let others do it for your team while in the remaining 3 there are non at all.

If you try cloak with chaosball and the chaosball stays visible other players know where you are anyway(only cant start their offense with single target attack) and if chaosball gets invisible too and vanishes from map it allows you to win the battleground without tanking or killing the enemy team ruining it for them so disabling it is necessary.

Streak is allowing Sorcs to move too fast to get hit by most players and therefore disabled like other teleporting skills including mistform, undo, shade, frozen and apocryphal gate.

Chaosball carriers running with increased speed too fast for anyone to catch is already complained about a lot and a major reason why chaosball and capture the relic were unpopular and considered unfun and the classes with the best movement speed increase+minor expedition are also sorcerer and nightblade (and templar on skill not used so only the former really)so they are fine and giving them streak and cloak would be OP.

DK like templar, warden, necro and arcanist has no strong movement tool and to rely on tankiness without necessarily beeing more tanky than nb and
sorc.
They only get ressoursses from battleroar when they have ulti and have to build for it and you cant build ulti in corrosive anymore. If you want battleror you can wear witchman set and get it yourself.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

moosegod wrote: »

Some classes can do things better than other classes, that's the point of classes...

My very first PvP build, back in 2015, was a DK sustain build. The burst wasn't very high but could win any 1v1 by outlasting my opponent through damage over time and better resource management, that was the strength of DK. My next build was a NB burst build using two of the highest hitting skills in the game, because that is what they excel at.

I don't understand the point of this thread. Are you upset that one class can do something better than you? This is like being anooyed that a shotgun is better in close quarters than a rifle. My DK is better at carrying the ball but my NB is better at killing the ball carrier, them's the ropes.

Well. Yes?

My consistent best source of sustained damage against ball carriers isn’t even using my own class skills. (Those get use defensively outside of interacting with the objective).

Snipe/LA/Elemental(before the LA hits to land all three at the same time) is by far some of the spikiest damage you can deal.

I can’t use my class defense against the same when carrying the ball, nor can Sorc (through their sheer mobility)

Because as you say:

Some classes can do things better than other classes.

And in this case, majorly because the game decides that no, I do not to get to use my class identity for this objective.

NB has the best class dmg skills and burst ultis, if you choose not to use them and rather use a guild and wpn skill combo that is your choice.

Many NBs only slot cloak for major savagery rarely using it and not slotted it at all before savagery was added, so there also seems to be other nb defense
than cloak.

Merciless resolve is strongest hardest hitting burst skill, concealed weapon one of the hardest hitting best spammables, incap a hard hitting burstulti with strong debuff making the other skills hitting even harder and soultheter the strongest aoe burst.

And whenever ZoS standardizes Ball/Relic carriers to appease those complaining about speed issues, it’ll come down to who can tank the best. (But hey, then I can probably better get close to them to slap em with Surprise Attack). And what better than an Argonian DK with Witchman’s to do that.

Ice Comet is the best burst Ultimate, IMO. Two second delay that lets you setup more damage at once and/or stun them to ensure a hit. I do enjoy Comet+Snipe+Merciless. Though this can be blocked (and I will give you that merciless does hit very hard).

As for defensive measures, yeah cloak isn’t the only thing, there’s also Shadow image, allowing you to displace yourself and break LoS. Another thing that you can’t use with the Relic so far as I’m aware. (Though I don’t often use that skill due to bar space with my setup).

And if NB really is the best PvP class (I’d argue they’re simply the best pubstomper class), why do I seldom see them over DK, Warden, and Sorc?