ESO's future - The community needs clear answers

JiubLeRepenti · December 23

Dear devs,
Dear mods,

I am creating this thread to address the difficulties, tensions, and frustrations that, in my opinion, have been increasingly appearing on the forum lately.

I am not very active on this forum, though some regulars will recognize me, as I tend to have quite a strong, often negative opinion about the game (at least its current state). I’ve said it several times and I will repeat it: ESO is my favorite game. I’ve spent nearly 10,000 hours playing it, invested between 5,000 and 6,000 euros on two different accounts, and I even dedicated a YouTube channel to it. Please understand that my words, if they disturb or hurt, are not the result of hatred towards ESO, nor towards ZOS. If I am like this, it’s because I am sad about what the game has become. I am sad to see one of the MMOs with the most potential slowly but surely fading away.

I am one of the many players who believe ESO is currently going through a difficult period, and that the golden years are behind us. I think that ESO, for various reasons, is being neglected, and the content offered is no longer up to expectations. I also believe that ZOS’ current goal is to gradually reduce new content in anticipation of a constant and growing decline in player numbers. Perhaps I am wrong, but I see no sign that contradicts this theory.

If we compare the content we had in 2024 to what we had in 2017, I believe it’s impossible to deny that we’ve lost at least 30-40% of the new content in 2024. As a result, I think the concerns of players and the community are difficult to argue against.

The letter published by Matt Firor is, in my opinion, completely insufficient. It doesn’t reassure me at all. While the community is worried about ESO, while players are leaving, while doubt is taking over many fans, many of us feel like we are watching a ship sailing blindfolded towards a rock.

As has been said many times: many of us are frustrated by the moderation that removes some posts, which are sometimes perfectly legitimate. We saw it after the “Brawl PvP” livestream: you seemed more concerned with explaining that we should stay polite and avoid “targeting” one person rather than actually considering the feedback and reflecting on why those remarks were made. I feel like legitimate questions are sometimes “sacrificed” in the name of the devs' and mods' sanity.

Another good example is the US event that has been cancelled... No answer, no explanation, nothing. Any PR person will tell you this is the worst communication you could bring, for a very obvious reason: people will imagine the worst.

What do we need?

I will speak for myself and let others add or correct my thoughts, but I think many of us want:

A clear medium- and long-term roadmap (in other words, for several years);
A clear and detailed list of changes and performance improvements promised by ZOS over the years;
An assessment of the current state of the game (decreased player numbers, reduced new content, possible reduction of staff in favor of Zenimax’s future MMO, etc.);
To know what concrete plans ZOS has to address the game’s technical limitations (graphic engine and servers);
To know how player feedback is taken into account;
To know the strategies being considered to reduce player departures and better satisfy endgame players.

I can already hear some people telling me, “These things aren’t your concern.” Well, I think they are. I think they concern all those who have invested time and money into ESO. They concern all those who believed in or wanted to believe in ESO and who today are saddened by what the game has become over the years.

Right now, there is a real breach of trust forming between a part of the community and ZOS. And a breach of trust against the developers can quickly become problematic, even fatal, for a video game. We are seeing this today with other studios and publishers like Ubisoft or Blizzard.

If you love ESO, and if you are determined to keep it alive for many more years, then please, tell us. And if you are heading towards reduced content or even maintenance mode, let us know as well. We want to know.

I believe it is urgent, given the state of the game, to restore trust between ZOS and the community. Because if people are leaving, if people are angry, if people are frustrated, it’s mostly because they are not getting any response from you. And when I say “response,” I’m not talking about the prewritten responses we get 85% of the time that tell us, “We have removed certain comments that did not follow forum rules. Thank you for your feedback, we will discuss it soon.” I’m talking about a real response that provides concrete, factual details.

Having clear answers, I think, will resolve a large part of the tensions that are increasingly appearing on the forum.

Please, talk to us and be honest. The survival of the game depends on it.

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

JiubLeRepenti · December 23

Small bump before I go to bed

sarahthes · December 23

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

Small bump before I go to bed

It is December 23. While I appreciate your enthusiasm, the likelihood of a response before Jan 6 is unlikely due to how many people at ZOS are likely away for the holidays.

Rkindaleft · December 23

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

Dear devs,

I believe it is urgent, given the state of the game, to restore trust between ZOS and the community. Because if people are leaving, if people are angry, if people are frustrated, it’s mostly because they are not getting any response from you. And when I say “response,” I’m not talking about the prewritten responses we get 85% of the time that tell us, “We have removed certain comments that did not follow forum rules. Thank you for your feedback, we will discuss it soon.” I’m talking about a real response that provides concrete, factual details.

Bingo. The reason people flame the developers so much is because it feels like the only way to get any meaningful dialogue out of them. I'm really trying to watch what I say here so I don't get banned, but they've ignored feedback for so long most people have just accepted they will never listen to us. They say "we hear you" but then proceed to go forth with changes nobody wants. There's a huge difference between being heard and actually being listened to.

Literally every time one of these new developer retrospective threads come out people are like "ooh aah, new exciting changes!" or "they're finally listening to the community!" like they haven't failed to deliver on promises so many times previously, like why are people so convinced that they're going to "fix Cyrodiil performance" this time when nothing changed the last 20 times they said it? I'd really love to be proven wrong, but there isn't much reason for me to think otherwise.

Vonnegut2506 · December 23

Because this time they really mean it, really really.

ZOS_Lunar · December 23

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

Small bump before I go to bed

As others have pointed out, it is the holiday break so communication will be limited.

Also, we do have a Community Rule on bumping, so please refrain from doing so going forward.

Thanks!

Rkindaleft · December 23

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

Dear devs,

I believe it is urgent, given the state of the game, to restore trust between ZOS and the community. Because if people are leaving, if people are angry, if people are frustrated, it’s mostly because they are not getting any response from you. And when I say “response,” I’m not talking about the prewritten responses we get 85% of the time that tell us, “We have removed certain comments that did not follow forum rules. Thank you for your feedback, we will discuss it soon.” I’m talking about a real response that provides concrete, factual details.

ZOS_Lunar wrote: »

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

Small bump before I go to bed

As others have pointed out, it is the holiday break so communication will be limited.

Also, we do have a Community Rule on bumping, so please refrain from doing so going forward.

Thanks!

Case in point.

Elvenheart · December 23

Rkindaleft wrote: »

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

Dear devs,

I believe it is urgent, given the state of the game, to restore trust between ZOS and the community. Because if people are leaving, if people are angry, if people are frustrated, it’s mostly because they are not getting any response from you. And when I say “response,” I’m not talking about the prewritten responses we get 85% of the time that tell us, “We have removed certain comments that did not follow forum rules. Thank you for your feedback, we will discuss it soon.” I’m talking about a real response that provides concrete, factual details.

ZOS_Lunar wrote: »

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

Small bump before I go to bed

As others have pointed out, it is the holiday break so communication will be limited.

Also, we do have a Community Rule on bumping, so please refrain from doing so going forward.

Thanks!

Case in point.

Not really, the rule for bumping has been in place ever since I’ve been on the forums and I’ve been in the game from the very beginning. The initial post was definitely enough to get the point across while also adhering to forum rules.

katanagirl1 · December 24

They’re not going to tell you that the game is winding down, if it really is at that point. It’s like your boss will tell you everything is fine up until the point when your company lays everyone off.

Just enjoy the holidays and hopefully we will get more information sometime next year. We are getting much more information now from the team here on the forums that I have ever seen before so it makes me hopeful. I know we are all concerned but it won’t do any good to dwell on it when we can be celebrating the time with family and friends.

JiubLeRepenti · December 24

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Just enjoy the holidays and hopefully we will get more information sometime next year. We are getting much more information now from the team here on the forums that I have ever seen before so it makes me hopeful. I know we are all concerned but it won’t do any good to dwell on it when we can be celebrating the time with family and friends.

Alas we've seen that the communication could be... Well... Not very honest sometimes.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/670836/every-studio-directors-letter-by-year-that-promised-to-improve-game-performance#latest

I'm not only asking for more communication... I'm asking for more frank, honest and sincere communication.

They’re not going to tell you that the game is winding down, if it really is at that point. It’s like your boss will tell you everything is fine up until the point when your company lays everyone off.

Well yea, it's exactly how I feel like when I see ZOS current communication and Matt Firor's letter. And that's, according to me, what has been keeping many ppl away from ESO these last years.

colossalvoids · December 24

The whole point of the letter was about not having a long term roadmap commitment that probably brought the game to it's current state, so asking for another one seems kinda of weird to be honest. Player counts, decreases and staff situation surely isn't going to be published, it's a zero chance for most companies especially when decline is obvious to the community itself already, for yet again obvious reasons.

Other points are more or less reasonable but still can be answered vague enough and we know already that vague responses are the key communication we're getting.
A more detailed issues list they're going to work on more precisely would be actually nice to have access to so it can be gauged if they actually do indeed going to address long standing issues and address the feedback moving forward. And to track progress made in a sense.
Engine situation is also more than reasonable to ask for, as it holds quite a few limitations and being worked on previously. Would be a good indicator if they're trying to do something about it in more general sense as small rewrites are good but there are things that require a lot of work there and we are not exactly sure they're committed to it or ever will be. It's passable for now but every year it's delaying inevitable and making it harder with more system bloat.

joergino · December 24

colossalvoids wrote: »

It's passable for now but every year it's delaying inevitable and making it harder with more system bloat.

The only thing that is inevitable is switching off the servers and this year's letter has been a sobering experience in the sense that we appear to be closer to this day than I thought. Efforts invested into the game have been minimized for years already and they are going to be reduced even further, so I suspect that any engine improvements are wishful thinking by now since they cannot be monetized.

colossalvoids · December 24

joergino wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

It's passable for now but every year it's delaying inevitable and making it harder with more system bloat.

The only thing that is inevitable is switching off the servers and this year's letter has been a sobering experience in the sense that we appear to be closer to this day than I thought. Efforts invested into the game have been minimized for years already and they are going to be reduced even further, so I suspect that any engine improvements are wishful thinking by now since they cannot be monetized.

The same letter gave me the opposite picture, why bother to even mentioning fixing PvP or giving vets new zones instead of producing low quality beginner zone re-skins every year? They already know that announcing and not delivering didn't brought masses back, quite the opposite. People don't even wait for improvements, they simply don't believe those will come anytime, but here we are with a new batch of copium to inhale out of the blue after probably one of the most flaccid years ESO had.

To me it speaks like they're seeing a obvious decline but not going to boost it up temporarily by another bloat release and placeholder writing, they're fine giving some players this break from the "big content" and are going to somewhat future proof the game overall for the possibility of mass appeal later, maybe as a result of successful fixes they're actually believe can happen this time or because BGS have some plans for the audience meanwhile so ZoS can work on a game some more.

But yeah, they either improve or switch off sooner in the end.

katanagirl1 · December 24

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Just enjoy the holidays and hopefully we will get more information sometime next year. We are getting much more information now from the team here on the forums that I have ever seen before so it makes me hopeful. I know we are all concerned but it won’t do any good to dwell on it when we can be celebrating the time with family and friends.

Alas we've seen that the communication could be... Well... Not very honest sometimes.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/670836/every-studio-directors-letter-by-year-that-promised-to-improve-game-performance#latest

I'm not only asking for more communication... I'm asking for more frank, honest and sincere communication.

They’re not going to tell you that the game is winding down, if it really is at that point. It’s like your boss will tell you everything is fine up until the point when your company lays everyone off.

Well yea, it's exactly how I feel like when I see ZOS current communication and Matt Firor's letter. And that's, according to me, what has been keeping many ppl away from ESO these last years.

My impression is that they are just starting to move in a different direction and the plan is not completely in place right now, hence the lack of detail. I am sure we will find out more later. Some of us will like it, and some will not, undoubtably.

That is all I have to say. I don’t want to go rehashing the past and endure a lot of negativity during this holiday season. Wishing you all the best.

Ugrak · December 24

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

I am one of the many players who believe ESO is currently going through a difficult period, and that the golden years are behind us. I think that ESO, for various reasons, is being neglected, and the content offered is no longer up to expectations. I also believe that ZOS’ current goal is to gradually reduce new content in anticipation of a constant and growing decline in player numbers. Perhaps I am wrong, but I see no sign that contradicts this theory.

If we compare the content we had in 2024 to what we had in 2017, I believe it’s impossible to deny that we’ve lost at least 30-40% of the new content in 2024. As a result, I think the concerns of players and the community are difficult to argue against.

There has undeniably been a reduction in content. However, keep in mind there was a large community demand for a change to the content model in part due to the whole thing becoming increasingly stale and predictable, and a general sentiment similar to what you mention here. The response was announced back in the 2022 end of year letter.

https://elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/63363

Partially quoted:

In general, there are two types of content in ESO: hand-crafted, such as quests, stories and things you do one time per character; and systems, which are activities that are generally repeatable such as PvP, dungeons, trials, housing, daily crafting writs, etc. We have always had a mix of the two types of content, but in terms of Dev Team hours, the majority of time developing the game has been weighted towards questing content.

As I mentioned above, the big news for 2023 is that based in significant part on player feedback, we are now at the point where we are reassessing the balance of hand-crafted "one-and-done" storytelling content versus repeatable game activities.

Now that we have hundreds and hundreds (and hundreds!) of hours of questing content, enough for four or five regular RPGs, we are hearing from our new players that the sheer number of zones and stories and characters is intimidating. And, on the other hand, our veteran players consistently tell us that they would like more content that isn't played through just once—they would like more content they can enjoy for years; content that utilizes our already existing zones to add new things to do, and most importantly, introduces some new gameplay.

Given the above, 2023 will see us moving away from the "Year Long Adventure” 12-month storylines that we have featured since 2019's Season of the Dragon. I think these have run their course and frees us up to do some new and interesting content that we've been wanting to do for a few years now—and lets us return to expansive story arcs that unfold over multiple Chapters. This year-long strategy was a huge success and raised the profile of ESO, but now after four straight years, we're finding more and more that this cadence limits what we can do.

One logistical consequence that I can only offer as my observation or even speculation is that the 2023 chapter that was in the pipeline at the time seems as if it got stretched across 2023 and 2024, as if the Q4 of the planned Necrom chapter is what became the whole Gold Road chapter. And by extension, something other than Gold Road likely was in the pipeline intended for 2024 and would have had it's plans altered.

So I don't personally find the content drought we are currently experiencing surprising or concerning at this point. Rather I'm taking it as a sign that the ship is turning, and I have some understanding that this is not an instant process. The 2024 letter basically seems to say that they are about to deliver on the changes mentioned in the 2022 letter.

Hoping 2025 will demonstrate some traction again and in a healthy direction for the game.

Are the golden years behind ESO? Maybe. Novelty wears off; competitors emerge; technology changes, etc. Other games have retained a loyal following long past their golden years. The single player Elder Scrolls games are in many ways examples of that, and ESO probably should try to better tap into that than has been done so far, such as the depth and weirdness of the lore that has given TES it's personality. But ESO is an MMO so to build and maintain the kind of gameplay services that can support active communities is critical.

On that note, the longstanding performance issues and alienation of a lot of the initial endgame community (both PVE and PVP) are issues that should be taken seriously. Things like these get exacerbated by the outrage-mining that happens on monetized social media platforms but there is a core of that breach of trust you mention at the heart of it. Being more proactive about communication and arriving at a shared understanding between the devs and the community would probably be worthwhile.

tsaescishoeshiner · December 24

I wish the letter had left people feeling a bit more reassured--I almost wish they'd announced the Q1 DLC before the holidays so people had something to look forward to and fill our conversations with.

I personally don't "need answers" because I'm okay to wait until the preview streams in January and April, and I'm not pessimistic or down about the new content cadence. But other people feeling down or disappointed is rubbing off, so some reassurance would inject some positivity into the community.

manukartofanu · 2:41AM

It’s not entirely clear what kind of communication is expected here. This is real life, where sometimes you have to read between the lines and not take everything literally. The letter explained that things have been going great for 10 years, and this year was the best yet. If you’re satisfied with everything, great—you’ll continue to be satisfied because nothing will change drastically in such a case. And yes, if you’re deeply dissatisfied, this letter will disappoint you because, either from personal experience or just intuition, you understand that when everything is going great, there’s no reason for drastic changes. Why would there be?

edward_frigidhands · 5:29AM

ZOS_Lunar wrote: »

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

Small bump before I go to bed

As others have pointed out, it is the holiday break so communication will be limited.

Also, we do have a Community Rule on bumping, so please refrain from doing so going forward.

Thanks!

I am not in disagreement about the forum rules but that isn't a great response to a customer concern.

tsaescishoeshiner · 11:00AM

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

ZOS_Lunar wrote: »

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

Small bump before I go to bed

As others have pointed out, it is the holiday break so communication will be limited.

Also, we do have a Community Rule on bumping, so please refrain from doing so going forward.

Thanks!

I am not in disagreement about the forum rules but that isn't a great response to a customer concern.

While it might not be obvious, the forum mod you're responding to doesn't have the role of answering customer complaints like this.

sleepy_worm · 1:00PM

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

While it might not be obvious, the forum mod you're responding to doesn't have the role of answering customer complaints like this.

Sure thing. However, a big part of the wider conversation is about forum mods being better about reading the room and not enforcing rules that perhaps aren't the best to begin with when the actual real conversation is about something so much more important than etiquette. It was a 24-hour bump and probably not like super in line with forum rules, but you could also just let it happen and not say something. Lose control. It's fine. People are upset that their game might be dying and nobody is telling them it's not; they're just saying someone broke a rule. Sometimes the best thing you're allowed to say is nothing. And while rules are important, nobody's first response is to listen to the captain of a sinking ship. They've got other things on their mind.

I think the game is doing okay and I'll be here for it even when it's sinking, but the moderation needs to be more people focused and not so rule focused. People are sad and scared. Adapt to that reality.