Every Studio Director's Letter (by year) that promised to improve game performance.

moderatelyfatman · December 19

2019: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/57437
2020: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/59387
2021: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/61335
2022: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/63363
2023: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/65265
2024: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/67321

g00dies · December 19

Please: It would be good to get a roadmap like what was provided in 2019..

ESO's combat system is love-it or hate-it thing! I'm in the former camp and think it is BiS when it's not lagging and when there is population to support the potential. It truly is something special (even if light attack weaving / animation cancelling wasn't quite intended)...

Destai · December 19

I wish they’d just give us a high level summary of what performance gains they have actually achieved. To their credit, I think they have. But bigger problems still loom.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · December 19

Destai wrote: »

I wish they’d just give us a high level summary of what performance gains they have actually achieved. To their credit, I think they have. But bigger problems still loom.

I would be more interested in what metrics they are using to capture the performance vs the campaign population caps over the years.

Tensar · December 19

The performances are getting better, but just because players are leaving this game. : )

LadyGP · December 19

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

I wish they’d just give us a high level summary of what performance gains they have actually achieved. To their credit, I think they have. But bigger problems still loom.

I would be more interested in what metrics they are using to capture the performance vs the campaign population caps over the years.

Based on some of the posts from Rich in the lag thread it sounds like they have some inadequate and inaccurate logging tools they needed to rework. I mean their in game latency meter is basically a server FPS counter. Not to mention that they aren't tracking client crashes well enough (how many of us have gotten a hard lockup and have to Alt+F4 the game). Also, I'm curious if the "An unexpected error has occurred" are even being tracked in logging. I could have totally misunderstood what he was saying but this was my take away.

I'm not even convinced that they can "see" the true performance issues in their current data set.

LadyGP · December 19

Tensar wrote: »

The performances are getting better, but just because players are leaving this game. : )

Sad but true-ish.

Thumbless_Bot · December 19

LadyGP wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

I wish they’d just give us a high level summary of what performance gains they have actually achieved. To their credit, I think they have. But bigger problems still loom.

I would be more interested in what metrics they are using to capture the performance vs the campaign population caps over the years.

Based on some of the posts from Rich in the lag thread it sounds like they have some inadequate and inaccurate logging tools they needed to rework. I mean their in game latency meter is basically a server FPS counter. Not to mention that they aren't tracking client crashes well enough (how many of us have gotten a hard lockup and have to Alt+F4 the game). Also, I'm curious if the "An unexpected error has occurred" are even being tracked in logging. I could have totally misunderstood what he was saying but this was my take away.

I'm not even convinced that they can "see" the true performance issues in their current data set.

Splunk is great

MincMincMinc · December 19

LadyGP wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

I wish they’d just give us a high level summary of what performance gains they have actually achieved. To their credit, I think they have. But bigger problems still loom.

I would be more interested in what metrics they are using to capture the performance vs the campaign population caps over the years.

Based on some of the posts from Rich in the lag thread it sounds like they have some inadequate and inaccurate logging tools they needed to rework. I mean their in game latency meter is basically a server FPS counter. Not to mention that they aren't tracking client crashes well enough (how many of us have gotten a hard lockup and have to Alt+F4 the game). Also, I'm curious if the "An unexpected error has occurred" are even being tracked in logging. I could have totally misunderstood what he was saying but this was my take away.

I'm not even convinced that they can "see" the true performance issues in their current data set.

Yeah the latency meter ingame is a dummy representation. As far as people have figured out in the past it used to be an average over a long period of like 10s showing you the best ping value. Pretty sure this also wouldnt include the latency of the server if it was freezing aswell.

Crashes or issues in pvp in particular will never be logged correctly since the user has to terminate the program deliberately or else you are forced out of the campaign which has a 60 person que. Most games would give you a grace period of 5mins or so to log back in and spawn in the campaign.

LadyGP · December 19

MincMincMinc wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

I wish they’d just give us a high level summary of what performance gains they have actually achieved. To their credit, I think they have. But bigger problems still loom.

I would be more interested in what metrics they are using to capture the performance vs the campaign population caps over the years.

Based on some of the posts from Rich in the lag thread it sounds like they have some inadequate and inaccurate logging tools they needed to rework. I mean their in game latency meter is basically a server FPS counter. Not to mention that they aren't tracking client crashes well enough (how many of us have gotten a hard lockup and have to Alt+F4 the game). Also, I'm curious if the "An unexpected error has occurred" are even being tracked in logging. I could have totally misunderstood what he was saying but this was my take away.

I'm not even convinced that they can "see" the true performance issues in their current data set.

Yeah the latency meter ingame is a dummy representation. As far as people have figured out in the past it used to be an average over a long period of like 10s showing you the best ping value. Pretty sure this also wouldnt include the latency of the server if it was freezing aswell.

Crashes or issues in pvp in particular will never be logged correctly since the user has to terminate the program deliberately or else you are forced out of the campaign which has a 60 person que. Most games would give you a grace period of 5mins or so to log back in and spawn in the campaign.

This^ the amount of times we have to Alt F4 so we can make sure we get back into cyro is wild. 100% their logging, even if it is working, isn't tracking these crashes/disconnects.

Aldoss · December 19

Truly telling.

Would love to hear @ZOS_MattFiror's or @ZOS_RichLambert's retrospect on this matter. Game performance is way down. Combat balance is the worst it's ever been.

What's the new roadmap? How quickly do you think you'll be able to get Cyrodiil back? How are you planning on addressing the server issues that are plaguing your players and causing them to give up on the game? How are you going to measure progress?

React · December 19

This right here is exactly why I no longer get my hopes up regarding ESO.

There is no reason to believe this time will be any different, and you would be a fool to think otherwise. Zenimax has not once made good on a promise to improve performance or the PVP side of the game, except when they accidently improved it by replacing the hardware before allowing it to slip back into disrepair within a 9 month timeframe. Every time people begin to get vocal regarding their unhappiness with PVP/Performance/combat/balance, we get some PR post and a few weeks of weak forum communication, followed by a return to the norm and much later an excuse as to why they couldn't accomplish the goals they laid out at the end of the previous year.

I would love to be wrong. I'd love to see the PVP side of this game return to it's former glory. But their track record and the actions of their developers do not provide any reason to believe that they are willing or even capable of achieving that.

Desiato · December 19

As someone who had lost hope in 2017 and gave up completely in 2019, I see some signs to be optimistic about Cyrodiil.

The main thing is that for the first time, they are committing to decoupling PVE and PVP gameplay. This is huge.

Every engine and back-end architecture has limitations that can't be easily overcome without completely re-engineering the product. In this case, that would be costly and complex.

And frankly, I don't even think it's possible for ESO's existing fast yet convoluted gameplay system to scale to hundreds of players per faction on one server without crippling performance issues.

However, a practical solution that has been available to ZOS this entire time is to adjust gameplay so it fits within the limitations of the engine and backend.

Instead of looking at Cyrodiil's performance issues as a failure in server performance, one could just as accurately look at it as a failure in gameplay design, because they gave the players the ability to break the server through normal, intuitive gameplay. A bad designer could easily do that to any game.

With that said, I'm not expecting a miracle and the changes they seem to be proposing could come with some huge drawbacks because it seems we could be presented with radically different gameplay if they do intend to scale to hundreds of players per faction on the same server.

I think it's worth the risk. I love Cyrodiil and AvA, but it's awful as a PVP game in its current state at every scale of combat. There's no baby to throw out with the bathwater anymore.

JiubLeRepenti · December 19

React wrote: »

This right here is exactly why I no longer get my hopes up regarding ESO.

There is no reason to believe this time will be any different, and you would be a fool to think otherwise. Zenimax has not once made good on a promise to improve performance or the PVP side of the game, except when they accidently improved it by replacing the hardware before allowing it to slip back into disrepair within a 9 month timeframe. Every time people begin to get vocal regarding their unhappiness with PVP/Performance/combat/balance, we get some PR post and a few weeks of weak forum communication, followed by a return to the norm and much later an excuse as to why they couldn't accomplish the goals they laid out at the end of the previous year.

I would love to be wrong. I'd love to see the PVP side of this game return to it's former glory. But their track record and the actions of their developers do not provide any reason to believe that they are willing or even capable of achieving that.

I don't think they are fools. Some people just can't admit it and prefer keeping their eyes wide shut.

It would be heartbreaking for them to admit it. So, they just prefer acting like it wasn't that bad and coping with "No, it's fake; the game is going fine. When I log in, I see many people in cities" (guess what, there is a pop limit for each zone. Seeing 30+ people in Vivec doesn't mean anything, as it would be the same whether there were 5,000 or 100,000 players in-game).

I think they see it and perfectly know what's going on. But they just can't say it. They prefer maintaining this "toxic positivity" about the game instead of pointing out the problems.

madman65 · December 19

Need I say more.

zaria · December 19

Desiato wrote: »

As someone who had lost hope in 2017 and gave up completely in 2019, I see some signs to be optimistic about Cyrodiil.

The main thing is that for the first time, they are committing to decoupling PVE and PVP gameplay. This is huge.

Every engine and back-end architecture has limitations that can't be easily overcome without completely re-engineering the product. In this case, that would be costly and complex.

And frankly, I don't even think it's possible for ESO's existing fast yet convoluted gameplay system to scale to hundreds of players per faction on one server without crippling performance issues.

However, a practical solution that has been available to ZOS this entire time is to adjust gameplay so it fits within the limitations of the engine and backend.

Instead of looking at Cyrodiil's performance issues as a failure in server performance, one could just as accurately look at it as a failure in gameplay design, because they gave the players the ability to break the server through normal, intuitive gameplay. A bad designer could easily do that to any game.

With that said, I'm not expecting a miracle and the changes they seem to be proposing could come with some huge drawbacks because it seems we could be presented with radically different gameplay if they do intend to scale to hundreds of players per faction on the same server.

I think it's worth the risk. I love Cyrodiil and AvA, but it's awful as a PVP game in its current state at every scale of combat. There's no baby to throw out with the bathwater anymore.

I want to bring the elephant or rater client to attention. An increasing numbers of flashy mounts, skins and styles are released. This has to go into your video memory. And its an safe bet showing off the crown store stuff is an priority.
I say Cyrodil has worked much better, yes they reduced player count but also looks like the coding works better now.
If they could just solve Cyrodil with better servers it would be much much cheaper in hardware, just get 6 better servers for the main campaigns.
Personally I would increase the player count in campaigns now, but that would not work on an PS 4 or old pc's.
And I don't think they will scale back on the cosmetic.

dk_dunkirk · December 19

I don’t think the cosmetics have a thing to do with it. The game tells your client this person’s mount is here and moving in this direction. The rendering is all client side.

Look at the combat in this game. It’s a mix of HUNDREDS of variables, a lot of which are being intermixed with everyone you’re fighting WITH, and everything you’re fighting AGAINST. Calculated EVERY SECOND. And every new set, every new skill, every new thing they add to the game is another thing to add into a calculation that’s already THOUSANDS of calculations long. It’s no wonder PVP performance keeps getting worse. But every addition has added another 3 zone sets, a couple more craftables, dungeon sets, trial sets, mythics, etc. Stopping this treadmill is a good thing.

Pelanora · December 19

When they released the new Bgs, they said it was on new tech, that meant they could change it up in ways they couldn't with the old bgs.

I think they're not 'fixing cyro', I think they're doing something that looks like cryo but on new tech. So they can have new game play options.

I think they're adding new small game platforms that talk to each other, some kind of federated design, so they can modernise and change and add bit by bit.

Lags · December 19

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

2019: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/57437
2020: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/59387
2021: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/61335
2022: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/63363
2023: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/65265
2024: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/67321

and failed every time? Ya. im not sure why they would ever think we would believe them this time. And this idea of a new campaign with limited skills/builds is terrible and does nothing to fix performance in the current cyrodiil campaigns. I refuse to believe that this huge company, with Microsoft behind them, has no idea what is wrong with their servers. after 10 years, and after the last 4-5 years of "working on it. There is no way. I M O they have to know what the issue is, and instead of investing them money needed to fix it, they keep trying to work around it.

MedicInTheWild · December 20

I think and have already stated this is a generic yearly post that means nothing to me, and in no way shape or form do I mean anything negative but the last several yearly post have come from the same person that has failed to meet the communities expectations by far.

It is always we will improve performance in some way, shape or form and we see minimal and it becomes the goal for next year.

This yearly "We are focusing on performance" has got to stop. If ZOS does not make this the only priority this game will cease to exist. I dont care about 50 new crown store items a month when I cant even use the basic functions of the game.... you know actually being in the game. ( Crashing it what I'm referring too ).

I understand completely this is their main source of income but I know they have had to had a major reduction in sales. When I see over half of my friends and guildies that last logged on 8+ months ago, their is a reduction of players and income.

Im not even sure that anyone other than Forum Mods read the Forums, Which would be my main source for if im doing good at my job. Yes I know Kevin pushes stuff to them but server performance has ben a major problem since APRIL give or take a month and the first big response is the yearly and then we will wait until April to give a roadmap/statement on the path forward on improving performance. ( Shoutout to Kevin/Forum Mods as I know he can only give us what he is allowed to and deals with alot of *** ) This should be a Dev Tracker with weekly updates, dont hold anything back to the community. This we are investigating and then asking for the sixth time for what specs are your pc, what area you were in, what is the name of your 3rd born, what is the last 4 of your social has got to stop. I see many if forums giving everything with minimal response.

I have played this game since the beginning, and don't want to see it fail. I wish they would fix it and keep it shining and become the best MMO out. When I see other games immediately fix issues that are game braking without hesitation and I cant get out of combat in a game that has been around 10+ years it is discouraging. I would love to have big battles and not DC mid fight and add another 20K AP out of the millions I have missed for dcing and not being able to log in for 10 minutes. On that note I wish I wouldn't of spent the hundreds of hours waiting in Q for PVP again after already waiting my turn for dcing and loosing my spot in PVP back so I could do something other than stare at the Q multiple times on prime nights.

Looking forward to seeing what the future holds for ESO, hopefully it gets back to the game many more loved as personally I use to take off 2 weeks a year just to play. With Love Medic

Lags · December 20

React wrote: »

This right here is exactly why I no longer get my hopes up regarding ESO.

There is no reason to believe this time will be any different, and you would be a fool to think otherwise. Zenimax has not once made good on a promise to improve performance or the PVP side of the game, except when they accidently improved it by replacing the hardware before allowing it to slip back into disrepair within a 9 month timeframe. Every time people begin to get vocal regarding their unhappiness with PVP/Performance/combat/balance, we get some PR post and a few weeks of weak forum communication, followed by a return to the norm and much later an excuse as to why they couldn't accomplish the goals they laid out at the end of the previous year.

I would love to be wrong. I'd love to see the PVP side of this game return to it's former glory. But their track record and the actions of their developers do not provide any reason to believe that they are willing or even capable of achieving that.

even if they toss out this new camp and performance is great, at what cost? I would literally sooner just go play bdo or wow or some other mmo. I play eso because i love the combat and the diverstiy. Combat has been dumbed down by zos for years, and so has diversity. But what they proposed is even worse. I dont play eso to be forced to run something by the devs. Skills or a build or whatever. I would hate it, im sure someone like you would hate it, everyone i know would hate it.

Even if its not super invasive, and they just ban a few skills, then would it really make a difference? From the way i read it, it sounds like loadouts or something. Idk, time will tell, but the question i have to keep asking is, what does any of this do for cyrodiil the way it is now. Unless they have some other idea that i missed or they havent talked about. But ofc, i have zero faith. We have played too long lmao, been watching every year, reading these posts, how could we have any faith in things improving.

React · December 20

Lags wrote: »

React wrote: »

This right here is exactly why I no longer get my hopes up regarding ESO.

There is no reason to believe this time will be any different, and you would be a fool to think otherwise. Zenimax has not once made good on a promise to improve performance or the PVP side of the game, except when they accidently improved it by replacing the hardware before allowing it to slip back into disrepair within a 9 month timeframe. Every time people begin to get vocal regarding their unhappiness with PVP/Performance/combat/balance, we get some PR post and a few weeks of weak forum communication, followed by a return to the norm and much later an excuse as to why they couldn't accomplish the goals they laid out at the end of the previous year.

I would love to be wrong. I'd love to see the PVP side of this game return to it's former glory. But their track record and the actions of their developers do not provide any reason to believe that they are willing or even capable of achieving that.

even if they toss out this new camp and performance is great, at what cost? I would literally sooner just go play bdo or wow or some other mmo. I play eso because i love the combat and the diverstiy. Combat has been dumbed down by zos for years, and so has diversity. But what they proposed is even worse. I dont play eso to be forced to run something by the devs. Skills or a build or whatever. I would hate it, im sure someone like you would hate it, everyone i know would hate it.

Even if its not super invasive, and they just ban a few skills, then would it really make a difference? From the way i read it, it sounds like loadouts or something. Idk, time will tell, but the question i have to keep asking is, what does any of this do for cyrodiil the way it is now. Unless they have some other idea that i missed or they havent talked about. But ofc, i have zero faith. We have played too long lmao, been watching every year, reading these posts, how could we have any faith in things improving.

Their vagueness in this suggestion is incredibly frustrating. I totally agree, if they are planning to dumb down combat any further, or force everyone to use a small selection of specific skills and sets - I'm out. The combat, despite not being what it once was, is the only thing ESO has. It is the entire reason the PVP playerbase that exists still plays this game despite the complete lack of balance, care from the developers, and new content.

Their goal with this is completely non-sensical as well. They state that the reason they're doing this is to be able to "increase population caps back to launch levels". What is the point in doing that if you have to trash the combat/build system to do it? What is the point in doing that if the balance is god awful and you won't listen to players on how to improve it? What is the point in doing that if we aren't receiving new cyrodiil content to refresh our decade old zone? What is the point in doing that if the population to reach those new caps doesn't even exist anymore because of the aforementioned issues being left unaddressed?

g00dies · December 20

Could Cyrodiil be an entirely new engine? I'b be up for that, and with limited sets/skill if it was the start of ESO engine 2.0 I reckon it would be worth it... and I'd invest heavily in it, but alas...

Lags · December 20

React wrote: »

Lags wrote: »

React wrote: »

This right here is exactly why I no longer get my hopes up regarding ESO.

There is no reason to believe this time will be any different, and you would be a fool to think otherwise. Zenimax has not once made good on a promise to improve performance or the PVP side of the game, except when they accidently improved it by replacing the hardware before allowing it to slip back into disrepair within a 9 month timeframe. Every time people begin to get vocal regarding their unhappiness with PVP/Performance/combat/balance, we get some PR post and a few weeks of weak forum communication, followed by a return to the norm and much later an excuse as to why they couldn't accomplish the goals they laid out at the end of the previous year.

I would love to be wrong. I'd love to see the PVP side of this game return to it's former glory. But their track record and the actions of their developers do not provide any reason to believe that they are willing or even capable of achieving that.

even if they toss out this new camp and performance is great, at what cost? I would literally sooner just go play bdo or wow or some other mmo. I play eso because i love the combat and the diverstiy. Combat has been dumbed down by zos for years, and so has diversity. But what they proposed is even worse. I dont play eso to be forced to run something by the devs. Skills or a build or whatever. I would hate it, im sure someone like you would hate it, everyone i know would hate it.

Even if its not super invasive, and they just ban a few skills, then would it really make a difference? From the way i read it, it sounds like loadouts or something. Idk, time will tell, but the question i have to keep asking is, what does any of this do for cyrodiil the way it is now. Unless they have some other idea that i missed or they havent talked about. But ofc, i have zero faith. We have played too long lmao, been watching every year, reading these posts, how could we have any faith in things improving.

Their vagueness in this suggestion is incredibly frustrating. I totally agree, if they are planning to dumb down combat any further, or force everyone to use a small selection of specific skills and sets - I'm out. The combat, despite not being what it once was, is the only thing ESO has. It is the entire reason the PVP playerbase that exists still plays this game despite the complete lack of balance, care from the developers, and new content.

Their goal with this is completely non-sensical as well. They state that the reason they're doing this is to be able to "increase population caps back to launch levels". What is the point in doing that if you have to trash the combat/build system to do it? What is the point in doing that if the balance is god awful and you won't listen to players on how to improve it? What is the point in doing that if we aren't receiving new cyrodiil content to refresh our decade old zone? What is the point in doing that if the population to reach those new caps doesn't even exist anymore because of the aforementioned issues being left unaddressed?

All valid questions. I couldnt agree more. I guess only time will tell. Hopefully its either not that bad, or gets dropped if everyone hates it. Which i imagine they will. But again, that leaves us with the question of what then for cyrodiil as it is. Whatever, i wish i cared enough to get mad about things like i did pre 2020 lmao. These days, like many others, i just hop on and have fun when i can, and then when im bored i play somthing else for a month or two. Usually another mmo. the game direction has just chased a lot of us away sadly.

Tbh, part of that message gave me a tiny flicker of hope at first. I have been hoping they would move away from this focus on solo/casual gamers, and actually try to make an mmo again. These type of players have enough, they have it all. Mmos are complex. You need a solid community for all parts to work well, and eso keeps losing long term players. Sure they may have a revolving door of casuals, but that does nothing for the game but give zenimax a paycheck when a chapter drops.

Some things in that post were good, but the cyrodiil part was just super concerning and super disappointing. But ive been waiting for years for zos to prove me wrong, and would love nothing more for them to finally do it. But its easy to forget how often matt makes these posts, and how often most of it is just fluff.

Sleep724 · December 20

It'll be different this time guys, we promise.

weights44 · December 20

Aldoss wrote: »

Truly telling.

Would love to hear @ZOS_MattFiror's or @ZOS_RichLambert's retrospect on this matter. Game performance is way down. Combat balance is the worst it's ever been.

What's the new roadmap? How quickly do you think you'll be able to get Cyrodiil back? How are you planning on addressing the server issues that are plaguing your players and causing them to give up on the game? How are you going to measure progress?

I would assume someone at eso is laughing at these questions. If they were going to improve anything it would have happened already after they already stated they were doing it since 2019. Nothing takes 6+ years to fix.

Aldoss · December 21

weights44 wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

Truly telling.

Would love to hear @ZOS_MattFiror's or @ZOS_RichLambert's retrospect on this matter. Game performance is way down. Combat balance is the worst it's ever been.

What's the new roadmap? How quickly do you think you'll be able to get Cyrodiil back? How are you planning on addressing the server issues that are plaguing your players and causing them to give up on the game? How are you going to measure progress?

I would assume someone at eso is laughing at these questions. If they were going to improve anything it would have happened already after they already stated they were doing it since 2019. Nothing takes 6+ years to fix.

100%. I'm not an idiot.

However, if you look at my comment history, you'll see that I have a decent track record at getting a ZOS staffer to reply. Perhaps there's something there?

Here's what more I'll say, especially if I got the attention of one of those staffers like @ZOS_JessicaFolsom or @ZOS_Kevin:

The more we try to initiate genuine conversation, and the more they ignore, the more their silence infects them. I stopped financially supporting this company back in U35. The more they ignore me when I ask questions like that, the more I'm sure that they (not me) are convincing other players to also ask the same questions I did when I decided to close my wallet to this company.

I urge the rest of you to try it, too. It's extremely effective and satisfying. You write these very cordial posts and ask for input, only to be ignored 90% of the time. The 10% they do reply, it's often too little, too late or gets spun off into something totally not helpful that only serves as a distraction. This is ZOS we're talking about. They've been dodge rolling the hard questions for at least 5 years, and why shouldn't they? Their game, in its recent and current state, has generated for them over $2B dollars!

They actively mismanage and withhold investment that would benefit their game and a vast majority of their playerbase still financially supports them for doing it. It's pretty amazing.

So yeah, I'll continue this strategy because it benefits me no matter what happens. Either they reply, and they little by little prove to me that they were actually serious when they said they wanted to improve their communication, or they don't, and when they don't, they end up creating more animosity towards them that might finally be the tipping point to get other players like my wife and I to also stop supporting this company. The more people do that, the more the managers and directors realize that they need to start investing that $2B if they want to see it continue and eventually become $4B or $10B.

They should do it anyway, but it's clear that whomever controls the purse strings here doesn't care to.

TechMaybeHic · December 21

I definitely don't expect much, but I'm hoping something works as I feel that even some of the strongest lovers of the game have started to rattle for many months.

So far, it seems only gradual Cyrodiil population lowering has worked. And it feels like there's some dynamic to that where it's not hard cap lock with queues but just a timer to slow down entry, and the slowest faction to pop lock never quite catches up. Could use some transparency at the risk of people gaming the system, because I think it's better than players being disheartened they cant even group up enough to even outnumber ball groups that are running 2 groups deep; yet run into a faction stack somehow seemingly double. Been on both the giving and receiving end of that which makes me wonder.

Aurielle · December 21

Lags wrote: »

React wrote: »

This right here is exactly why I no longer get my hopes up regarding ESO.

There is no reason to believe this time will be any different, and you would be a fool to think otherwise. Zenimax has not once made good on a promise to improve performance or the PVP side of the game, except when they accidently improved it by replacing the hardware before allowing it to slip back into disrepair within a 9 month timeframe. Every time people begin to get vocal regarding their unhappiness with PVP/Performance/combat/balance, we get some PR post and a few weeks of weak forum communication, followed by a return to the norm and much later an excuse as to why they couldn't accomplish the goals they laid out at the end of the previous year.

I would love to be wrong. I'd love to see the PVP side of this game return to it's former glory. But their track record and the actions of their developers do not provide any reason to believe that they are willing or even capable of achieving that.

even if they toss out this new camp and performance is great, at what cost? I would literally sooner just go play bdo or wow or some other mmo. I play eso because i love the combat and the diverstiy. Combat has been dumbed down by zos for years, and so has diversity. But what they proposed is even worse. I dont play eso to be forced to run something by the devs. Skills or a build or whatever. I would hate it, im sure someone like you would hate it, everyone i know would hate it.

Even if its not super invasive, and they just ban a few skills, then would it really make a difference? From the way i read it, it sounds like loadouts or something. Idk, time will tell, but the question i have to keep asking is, what does any of this do for cyrodiil the way it is now. Unless they have some other idea that i missed or they havent talked about. But ofc, i have zero faith. We have played too long lmao, been watching every year, reading these posts, how could we have any faith in things improving.

Agreed fully. The time to make a change like this was at launch when it became apparent that shifting skill calculations server-side was tanking performance in Cyrodiil — not ten years into the game’s life, when having considerable build diversity is all we’ve ever really known. I’m still willing to wait and see and give it a try if it does indeed perform well, because theorycrafting has never been my own priority in Cyrodiil, but I know that any system that dumbs things down and lessens build diversity is going to drive even more players away. That gives ZOS execs the chance to throw up their hands and say something like “See? We improved performance and they STILL left, there’s no pleasing PVP players.” Gets them off the hook, in their minds, and gives them even less incentive to work on Cyrodiil.

Valion · December 21

Others might know this better than me, since I am no PVP player.
Then again, since I oftentimes play PVE, I never really have had too many issues with lags ot crashes or anything.
That might be saying something, too.

Even so, I remember that throughout the years, the complexity of the game has increased immensely, and still yet, there were improvements of the server sided performance time and time again.
Both these facts indicate that work has been done, don't they?

LPapirius · December 21

Lags wrote: »

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

2019: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/57437
2020: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/59387
2021: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/61335
2022: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/63363
2023: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/65265
2024: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/67321

and failed every time? Ya. im not sure why they would ever think we would believe them this time. And this idea of a new campaign with limited skills/builds is terrible and does nothing to fix performance in the current cyrodiil campaigns. I refuse to believe that this huge company, with Microsoft behind them, has no idea what is wrong with their servers. after 10 years, and after the last 4-5 years of "working on it. There is no way. I M O they have to know what the issue is, and instead of investing them money needed to fix it, they keep trying to work around it.

I fully agree with this assessment. It seems highly unlikely ZOS doesn't know what needs to be done to fix most issues. What seems more likely is upper management is limiting the devs and investments into these needed fixes for, shall we say, corporate reasons.