Current Block Bug

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  • dosco
    dosco
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    I'm also waiting for an update on this
  • thaellin
    thaellin
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    Thursday night vCR training group. Nocturnal's favor... had 4 where the block bug occurred but I had enough health/shield to survive. Had 5 where I died.

    Dear ZOS - PLEASE FIX THIS. 13 pulls. 9 unblocked heavy attacks, 5 upstairs tank deaths. Your game is killing the team.

    https://youtu.be/wVn1NZ9vAtE
    https://youtu.be/TzcZKH2cFdU
    https://youtu.be/skhha6APoxk
    https://youtu.be/PQmLOZaY0Sc
    https://youtu.be/j49nebrEa7M

  • thaellin
    thaellin
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    Did vCR0 again. Only had three block bug deaths this week during the Z'maja fight. Had a few with the minis, though. I wish someone from ZOS other than ICY was reading my posts. Would be really nice if, when working through hard content, I did not get killed by bugs in the game I want badly to enjoy playing.

  • thaellin
    thaellin
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    vCR prog night. tons of block bug deaths. I scream into the void. It does not respond.
  • ForumSavant
    ForumSavant
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    thaellin wrote: »
    vCR prog night. tons of block bug deaths. I scream into the void. It does not respond.

    And sadly, it never will.
  • thaellin
    thaellin
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    So, vCR prog night again. We did a +0 where I had 5 unblocked heavy deaths, one of which might have been me. Then we did vCR+1. I had 12 unlocked heavy, 2 were my fault. I'm considering quitting the game, since I really prefer tanking and simply cannot do my job like this. I've stopped recording video, because it tells the same old story. Every. Single. Time.

    It's been six months since I first reported this bug and I have exactly ZERO indication that anyone is looking into it. I am really disappointed with the dev/support team.

  • Anmei
    Anmei
    Soul Shriven
    We have the same problems with the block bug. Not just in Vcr but all raids. Have many Video proofs of my char being obviously in block, but I still get one shot by a heavy. Also, heals do not respond many times. No matter how much I heal my self or the healers try, my bar doesnt go up and I die at the end. Yesterday was the worst when even all my attacks turned dark and I coudnt press anything despite my spot. This game is full of bugs right now, no one seems to care about, that makes tanking hell. Tanking is no fun anymore, and I really consider canceling my subscription and leaving my raid group and this game for good. @ZOS_GinaBruno
    Edited by Anmei on July 27, 2024 7:59AM
  • Anmei
    Anmei
    Soul Shriven
  • thaellin
    thaellin
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    Just mentioning this still occurs exactly as it has since last year (or longer)
  • thaellin
    thaellin
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    @ZOS_GinaBruno
    @ZOS_Kevin
    @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

    Sorry to bother you all, but is there any way to know if there is any status for this issue (including, as disappointing as it would be "not a high enough impact bug to schedule resources against")? I can still easily repro the lack of blocking while holding block for any instant cast on any character at any PC I sit down to (there are harder repro cases which are likely the same underlying issue).

    I kinda wish this were an actual bug tracker, so I could see assigned status/priority/severity... Some million posts earlier in this thread, Kevin said he would look into the in game bug reports I created (mentioned elsewhere in the thread which had been closed with "Thanks for the feedback"). I hadn't heard anything support/bug related since.

    I've provided more video and information than I ever get when I have to deal with a bug reported from a live title, so I really hope you've been able to reproduce the issue. If I thought I would ever be in the neighborhood (I'm not - different coast, different country) I would offer to drop in... repro only takes a second.

    I don't play a lot anymore, and I doubt anything will repair that, but occasionally I find myself wishing for closure here. I cared a lot back when I first posted this.

    Hope the holidays are kind and quiet (and lacking in data center power outages, etc).
    -- Thaellin
  • thaellin
    thaellin
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    Just a note to remind/clarify; if it is not an instant then it does NOT show the issue. Even arcanist flail with a 0.3 cast time does not show the issue.
  • madman65
    madman65
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    When I was running my guild`s Friday trial event, from what was happening to me was just lag. I would block and a couple of seconds I would finally block. As far as having a block up and the enemy still damaging me, I was good.
  • thaellin
    thaellin
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    @madman65 Sadly the issue in this post is independent of any lag conditions, so your issue is unrelated.

    This issue is a bug, in which block will never be active unless you release and re-apply block. If you right-click-cast as if you were attack weaving, then immediately after casting the 'instant' skill you right-click and HOLD (to block, obviously) that block will not be applied. You can hold block 'forever' (my longest was in vDSR twins - I think there is a video above - holding block but /not/ blocking while the AOEs spawned at my feet... the healer kept me alive am amazingly long time). In general it doesn't last so long because a one-shot mechanic will have killed me (which is, of course, the problem).

    When one is holding block (and there are no game mechanics which would prevent blocking), then block should be active. Unfortunately that's just not the case for this input sequence.
  • thaellin
    thaellin
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    Figured I'd drop a new video. Not really much different from the old videos... Problem is certainly unchanged. Alone in my house, no gear. Showing a bit of 'thjs works and this does not'

    The blocking/not addon is my own (seen in previous videos), which just complains if I am holding the right mouse button and block is not active (it is a bit more intelligent than that, but in my house, not running/jumping, outside combat... it really just boils down to 'right mouse button is down, and blocking is not true')

    To deal with this in content I notice my loud 'not blocking' notification and must release block and re-press (calmly, so as not to just re-enter the not-actually-blocking state). Often times I cannot get back to blocking before I am hit with a one-shot attack. It sucks.

    I just want to BLOCK when the game should allow me to block. It really feels reasonable to expect 'basic, core functionality' to work when there is nothing at all going on that could possibly interfere.

    If ZOS has anything they would like me to run which would do precise input timecoding or whatever... anything at all I could do to help get this fixed... I'm still interesting in trying to be useful.

    Enjoy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vcUhgRU-Ek
  • thaellin
    thaellin
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    A quick capture of the same issue from PTS... no addon, but we can still clearly see the block button held on the mouse overlay and no block active on the character.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjyNAivIiNY
  • thaellin
    thaellin
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    Checked PTS. Still occurs as written. (No I was not expecting it to have been fixed, but I like to pretend).
  • dosco
    dosco
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    It would be cool to get any statement on this :/
  • thaellin
    thaellin
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    It's not clear how to get any attention. I can't tell if this thread is intentionally ignored or if it's just not the hottest iron in the fire or if it is somehow not surfacing where ZOS would realize it is still pending action.

    We've at'd ZOS people, I've kept updating and reconfirming status to make it hit page1 regularly, there are plenty of views/posts...

    I guess we could try creating a duplicate thread for 'new post visibility' and then ask it be merged... At /some/ point I'll stop playing the game and then this thread will go away 8P

    Dunno. It's not a feel-good thread. I'm glad you're out here, at least @dosco =)
  • dosco
    dosco
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    :blush:
    it's good to try, but to be honest, I don't have much hope. I don't think they just "lose" active threads, and you are giving them all the info they could possibly need to see that this issue is not resolved.
    So.. I have to guess that they just don't care enough about this, or about the players who encounter this bug. :(
  • thaellin
    thaellin
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    Just noting: still occurs on PTS and live after current patches.

    *shrug*
    -- Thaellin
  • thaellin
    thaellin
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    Standard update... unsurprisingly, with no fix attempted so far, the problem continues to occur as written..
  • CrazyKitty
    CrazyKitty
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    dosco wrote: »
    :blush:
    it's good to try, but to be honest, I don't have much hope. I don't think they just "lose" active threads, and you are giving them all the info they could possibly need to see that this issue is not resolved.
    So.. I have to guess that they just don't care enough about this, or about the players who encounter this bug. :(

    I fear you may be correct.
  • Nord_Raseri
    Nord_Raseri
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    @ZOS_Kevin over a year has passed. Still an issue. any word?
    Veit ég aðég hékk vindga meiði á nætr allar níu, geiri undaðr og gefinn Oðni, sjálfr sjálfum mér, á þeim meiði er manngi veit hvers hann af rótum rennr.
  • thaellin
    thaellin
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    Tested with the new patch; still occurs (as expected, since no fix was attempted and the PTS would have had the fix first , but I guess someone has to mention these things.. ).
  • thaellin
    thaellin
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    I played with this a bit more today. I wonder if the issue is related to the very short period in a double-right mouse button click where the game knows the button is pressed, but it also has NOT applied block.

    I'm not sure if my musing about the cause or trying to tease out additional data has any value. I find this issue particularly annoying because I feel like I could fix it with a couple days effort (assuming the existing incorrect behaviour is not actually preventing worse behaviour).

    @ZOS_Kevin am I wasting my time here? It's been like 14 months since I made the forum post (and longer since my first in game report).

  • Gabriel_H
    Gabriel_H
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    thaellin wrote: »
    I played with this a bit more today. I wonder if the issue is related to the very short period in a double-right mouse button click where the game knows the button is pressed, but it also has NOT applied block.

    I'm not sure if my musing about the cause or trying to tease out additional data has any value. I find this issue particularly annoying because I feel like I could fix it with a couple days effort (assuming the existing incorrect behaviour is not actually preventing worse behaviour).

    @ZOS_Kevin am I wasting my time here? It's been like 14 months since I made the forum post (and longer since my first in game report).

    From my own experience there seems to be several underlying causes:

    1) It's a de-sync issue. You are blocking, but the server hasn't registered it yet.
    2) It's an action registration issue. You press block but the button push doesn't register - this happens with skills too (release button, press and hold again fixes it)
    3) It's a coding issue. Several instances in Cloudrest where Z'Maja is hitting through block - even Shield Discipline after it has been active for a few seconds and successfully autoblocked a light attack.

    Making block a toggle, an idea I have suggested on the forums before and got shouted down, would help alleviate the occurances of the first two, though not remove them entirely.

    I cannot tell you how hard I laughed at the Steamguard mythic. Timing a block to within 0.5s in ESO is a feat of luck that is beyond most mortals. We need better block consistency.

    Edit: Typos
    Edited by Gabriel_H on March 12, 2025 6:14PM
  • thaellin
    thaellin
    ✭✭
    In this case, it's not desync, lag, etc: you can hold block all day and it will never attempt to block. You must release and reblock. Standard desync should also not be 100% reproducible: this is. It could be considered a kind of desync, but an utterly avoidable kind.. the 'oops we never bothered to send the state request' kind... which I would be grumpy about showing up in my task box as a 'desync'

    I would say it could be the second, but I am suspicious, since:
    * the game is aware the mouse button is held.
    * I can 100% repro the issue for any instant cast. Any simple 'huh, that button press did not take' would not have such a reliable timing window. This issue is /highly/ predictable and reproducible; if you can make other button presses into 100% repro cases, then this may indeed represent a full class of issues. I /suspect/ it is specific to block, since block is 'pretty special' from a state machine rules processing point of view.
    * The issue seemingly cannot be reproduced when using a skill with a cast duration, though my input timing is essentially identical (as I said, I can repro this thing 100% when trying, so I am pretty confident on this part, though the timing window may have simply shifted).
    * I am (personally) unable to reproduce the issue without any skillcast in between releasing and attempting to reapply block (however another player, video shown earlier in the thread, was able to make it happen by just 'feathering' block).

    Being hit through block is another bug, and also really sucks and also needs to be fixed badly - that's not what I have in my video footage, unfortunately. If I ever catch it, I will perhaps post video in another thread... assuming I ever get indication that providing exhaustive detail and footage for a bug is actually appreciated or remotely useful to ZOS - so far, it seems to have been wasted effort on my part. I am still hoping to be proven wrong about that, obviously.

    I had once thought this issue was going to be rooted in the input layer (either a dblclick identification error or input debouncing code), but I now think it is in the character game rules state machine. I think the impulse to block was sent to the character state machine and (since I am holding the right mouse button) input is done with it and will not say anything more. This is based on the situations I have seen to be working which I expect would also be broken if it were in input.

    I think the block impulse was processed and discarded by the character state machine. I /think/ it has to do with a block state transition occurring in proximity to the request for the instant skill cast (either the block release right before the instant or the apply right after.... or the release/apply being in the same window with the instant). It could even be special code which is meant to prevent the block state from getting stuck "ON" with tight block/cast/release timing.

    If you hold block through the instant, block works - that's block casting! We all do it - it works!
    If you click, hold the RMB (no skillcast) it works (most the time?)
    if you click, duration-cast, hold RMB, then the block is applied after the cast is resolved.
    Click , instant-cast, hold... (with correct timing) character does not attempt to block
    Slow it down and blocking works.

    Unfortunately, during a trial, I seem to often find the 'right' timing to repro the issue, which significantly reduces my usefulness as a tank 8(

    I wish I could set breakpoints and inspect the code. Oh well.
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