Seasons are what push me away.

Alinhbo_Tyaka · December 19

Syldras wrote: »

Could someone who is familiar with seasons passes explain: Does that mean we would pay for several months beforehand without knowing what content will be released in that period of time? Or is there a roadmap beforehand, but without a guarantee that everything will be released as planned? Or is everything ready and set at the beginning of a new season so it wouldn't be any different than buying a dlc?

I don't think we will see a season pass implementation where you purchase a pass to access that season's content but I could be wrong. I suspect whatever ZOS implements will be as a way to drive ESO+ subscriptions and/or Crown Store sales where some of the content will be available to non-subscribers and you have to subscribe to have access to all of the features and exclusive rewards.

Tannus15 · December 19

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Could someone who is familiar with seasons passes explain: Does that mean we would pay for several months beforehand without knowing what content will be released in that period of time? Or is there a roadmap beforehand, but without a guarantee that everything will be released as planned? Or is everything ready and set at the beginning of a new season so it wouldn't be any different than buying a dlc?

I don't think we will see a season pass implementation where you purchase a pass to access that season's content but I could be wrong. I suspect whatever ZOS implements will be as a way to drive ESO+ subscriptions and/or Crown Store sales where some of the content will be available to non-subscribers and you have to subscribe to have access to all of the features and exclusive rewards.

Why would you suspect that? The latest thing they did was a house only available for real money. It was an entirely new type of interaction.

We have no idea what they are thinking or going to do because they have told us nothing. Literally nothing at all.

Introducing Seasons
Over the course of 2025 we will be moving more towards a seasonal content model and away from launching massive content updates once a year, as we did with Chapters. We will be talking much more about this in the future, but in 2025 expect to see named Seasons of three or six months duration with a mix of themed story content, events, store items, dungeons and more.
2025 will be a mix of old and new as we move the dev team towards creating smaller bite-sized pieces of content. We will still have some larger items that we've been working on for over a year, which you'll see launch as well.

Freeing up the dev team from needing to adhere to a strict annual cycle means we will be able to have teams launch content when it is ready throughout the year and not work to a date in June – this will let us focus on a greater variety of content spread over the year. This supports the new Seasons model, and will enable us to release content, updates, fixes, and systems in a more efficient manner.

There is literally nothing in here on how it will be packaged, or paid for or accessed. There is no indication how it will interact with eso plus. The letter was so lacking in detail that afterwards the community managers had to clarify that season content will remain in the game after the season ends because literally no one knows anything right now and they are not telling us anything.

What's a season? it's chunk of time which might be 3 months or 6 months or more or less and it will have any type of new content that has been in the game at any time and we don't know how we access it, if we can purchase just the parts we're interested in or if you have to buy the whole thing. we don't know if it's covered in eso+ or you can purchase parts for crowns or if it's only available for real money. We know nothing because they have told us nothing.

We know the first season start in April and they'll tell us something in January.
That's all we get.
Madness.

robwolf666 · December 19

What the chuff are "seasons", not the same rubbish in games like FO76 and Destiny, surely? Well, as long as we're not forced to do anything and can still play the way we've always done. I liked having new Chapters to look forward to mind.

Alinhbo_Tyaka · December 19

Tannus15 wrote: »

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Could someone who is familiar with seasons passes explain: Does that mean we would pay for several months beforehand without knowing what content will be released in that period of time? Or is there a roadmap beforehand, but without a guarantee that everything will be released as planned? Or is everything ready and set at the beginning of a new season so it wouldn't be any different than buying a dlc?

I don't think we will see a season pass implementation where you purchase a pass to access that season's content but I could be wrong. I suspect whatever ZOS implements will be as a way to drive ESO+ subscriptions and/or Crown Store sales where some of the content will be available to non-subscribers and you have to subscribe to have access to all of the features and exclusive rewards.

Why would you suspect that? The latest thing they did was a house only available for real money. It was an entirely new type of interaction.

We have no idea what they are thinking or going to do because they have told us nothing. Literally nothing at all.

Introducing Seasons
Over the course of 2025 we will be moving more towards a seasonal content model and away from launching massive content updates once a year, as we did with Chapters. We will be talking much more about this in the future, but in 2025 expect to see named Seasons of three or six months duration with a mix of themed story content, events, store items, dungeons and more.
2025 will be a mix of old and new as we move the dev team towards creating smaller bite-sized pieces of content. We will still have some larger items that we've been working on for over a year, which you'll see launch as well.

Freeing up the dev team from needing to adhere to a strict annual cycle means we will be able to have teams launch content when it is ready throughout the year and not work to a date in June – this will let us focus on a greater variety of content spread over the year. This supports the new Seasons model, and will enable us to release content, updates, fixes, and systems in a more efficient manner.

There is literally nothing in here on how it will be packaged, or paid for or accessed. There is no indication how it will interact with eso plus. The letter was so lacking in detail that afterwards the community managers had to clarify that season content will remain in the game after the season ends because literally no one knows anything right now and they are not telling us anything.

What's a season? it's chunk of time which might be 3 months or 6 months or more or less and it will have any type of new content that has been in the game at any time and we don't know how we access it, if we can purchase just the parts we're interested in or if you have to buy the whole thing. we don't know if it's covered in eso+ or you can purchase parts for crowns or if it's only available for real money. We know nothing because they have told us nothing.

We know the first season start in April and they'll tell us something in January.
That's all we get.
Madness.

I think it will be more of an ESO+ driver because even with the lack of information many of the items in the letter are things already being done by Bethesda in Fallout 76. As a result it is only logical to believe that ZOS is more likely to do something similar than follow the season pass model of other companies' games.

As to houses there are number of houses that are only available in the Crown Store. Yes some were available as game rewards but that doesn't change the fact that the only way to obtain them today is when they show up in the Crown Store. You can also look at Fallout 76 where all buildings or building components have to be paid for with Atoms in the cash shop. So again the monetization scheme tends to align with what a sister company is already doing.

As I said I certainly could be wrong and we will never know for sure what Matt Firor's letter really means until ZOS steps up to clarify it. In the end whatever it turns out to be doesn't really matter to me as either one pretty much kills the game as far as I'm concerned.

Hapexamendios · December 19

I'll wait and see. Never played a game with a seasonal release before so it's new to me.

RomanRex · December 19

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Could someone who is familiar with seasons passes explain: Does that mean we would pay for several months beforehand without knowing what content will be released in that period of time? Or is there a roadmap beforehand, but without a guarantee that everything will be released as planned? Or is everything ready and set at the beginning of a new season so it wouldn't be any different than buying a dlc?

I don't think we will see a season pass implementation where you purchase a pass to access that season's content but I could be wrong. I suspect whatever ZOS implements will be as a way to drive ESO+ subscriptions and/or Crown Store sales where some of the content will be available to non-subscribers and you have to subscribe to have access to all of the features and exclusive rewards.

Why would you suspect that? The latest thing they did was a house only available for real money. It was an entirely new type of interaction.

We have no idea what they are thinking or going to do because they have told us nothing. Literally nothing at all.

Introducing Seasons
Over the course of 2025 we will be moving more towards a seasonal content model and away from launching massive content updates once a year, as we did with Chapters. We will be talking much more about this in the future, but in 2025 expect to see named Seasons of three or six months duration with a mix of themed story content, events, store items, dungeons and more.
2025 will be a mix of old and new as we move the dev team towards creating smaller bite-sized pieces of content. We will still have some larger items that we've been working on for over a year, which you'll see launch as well.

Freeing up the dev team from needing to adhere to a strict annual cycle means we will be able to have teams launch content when it is ready throughout the year and not work to a date in June – this will let us focus on a greater variety of content spread over the year. This supports the new Seasons model, and will enable us to release content, updates, fixes, and systems in a more efficient manner.

There is literally nothing in here on how it will be packaged, or paid for or accessed. There is no indication how it will interact with eso plus. The letter was so lacking in detail that afterwards the community managers had to clarify that season content will remain in the game after the season ends because literally no one knows anything right now and they are not telling us anything.

What's a season? it's chunk of time which might be 3 months or 6 months or more or less and it will have any type of new content that has been in the game at any time and we don't know how we access it, if we can purchase just the parts we're interested in or if you have to buy the whole thing. we don't know if it's covered in eso+ or you can purchase parts for crowns or if it's only available for real money. We know nothing because they have told us nothing.

We know the first season start in April and they'll tell us something in January.
That's all we get.
Madness.

I think it will be more of an ESO+ driver because even with the lack of information many of the items in the letter are things already being done by Bethesda in Fallout 76. As a result it is only logical to believe that ZOS is more likely to do something similar than follow the season pass model of other companies' games.

As to houses there are number of houses that are only available in the Crown Store. Yes some were available as game rewards but that doesn't change the fact that the only way to obtain them today is when they show up in the Crown Store. You can also look at Fallout 76 where all buildings or building components have to be paid for with Atoms in the cash shop. So again the monetization scheme tends to align with what a sister company is already doing.

As I said I certainly could be wrong and we will never know for sure what Matt Firor's letter really means until ZOS steps up to clarify it. In the end whatever it turns out to be doesn't really matter to me as either one pretty much kills the game as far as I'm concerned.

your posts have been the most informative of the hundreds i’ve read so far this week. i wish we could amplify your concerns more.

[snip]
[edited for off-topic post]

PrincessOfThieves · December 19

LatentBuzzard wrote: »

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

On a side note, I also don't understand why some people are considering quitting over the idea of more challenging overland stuff.

Because there's no upside for those people, it just makes already tedious mobs even more tedious. If you want more difficult overland mobs and they make the change optional then you go for it.

Personaly if I want challenging content then there's plenty of veteran content that I can go and do. Otherwise there's zero benefit to me to having more difficult mobs to plow through whilst I collect skyshards / lore books / antiquities / psijic / whatever on yet another character. Having more difficult mobs doesn't make things more interesting, exciting, engaging or immersive, it just makes things more of a chore. Again, if you want to do that and they make it optional then you do you.

You don't know how they will approach it, though. They have not released any details yet.
And why would they make it tedious? Not melting an important quest boss in 10 seconds doesn't mean that you'd have to fight this boss for an hour.

TaSheen · December 19

In general, banning a forum account has NO relationship to getting an in-game account ban. Unless things have MATERIALLY changed....

@ZOS_Kevin?

DaveMoeDee · December 19

AzuraFan wrote: »

Taril wrote: »

Hence I see them using Season Passes to have the equivalent of "Just buying a Chapter on its own". With the stuff also being incorporated into ESO+ just like the current system of Chapters (Whether ESO+ will gain access to new content on launch or continue to need to wait a year before it gets rolled into the subscription like has been the case is yet to be seen)

It would make little sense for them to drastically shift their overall monetization strategy. Both in terms of how it would effect their overall profits and also how it would impact players whom are used to having these options for accessing content.

I agree that the seasons will probably be outside ESO+ initially, just like chapters were. But ESO+ will lose another DLC (the Q1 dungeon DLC - either right away, or starting in 2026). So they have to do something if they're going to charge the same subscription price.

It wouldn't surprise me if they take this opportunity to revamp ESO+. If they don't, they'll have to drop the price, IMO. After all, that'll be 2 DLCs ESO+ has lost with no drop in price (except for getting the two companions free as a one-time thing).

What about seasons would be outside of ESO+? The quests? Because all the smaller DLC was always part of ESO+ and they are abandoning large content like chapters.

Unless you think the model will be you can access the "bite-sized" quests initially only through season pass and then after a few months when the season ends those quests will appear in ESO+. Comparing to chapters doesn't make sense since these aren't at that scale. And increasing sub rates while saving on the overhead of developing chapters make a lot of financial sense. And don't forget the benefits from a smaller codebase by not increasing zone count.

ESO+ is mostly promoted by continuing to make inventory management horrible on purpose. Content drops are more about keeping people coming back. People then sub to not be annoying by inventory management.

Tan9oSuccka · December 19

We'll see I guess. I have concerns, but let's see what they come up with.

I'm not going to pay for like a year long Battle pass every year, on top of my yearly ESO plus subscription. The flip side if it is part of plus, something that some players already pay for there's little motivation to drive new content and changes. I worry content will be lean, and not on any kind of frequency unless they start bleeding subs.

I just hope its not like some of those early Destiny DLC/Expansions where they took the same maps, slightly different voiced dialog, run them backwards and threw in different enemies.

Mik195 · December 19

They aren't going to give up the revenue from chapters purchased by people with ESO Plus so either ESO+ needs to increase in price to get the seasons for free or ESO+ loses any future content so you pay more for less.

Or ESO+ purchasers who don't pony up tor the seasons and get them for free until much later get to see people enjoying content they can't play for months/years(?) Not a great user experience.

They really need to share some details on the new revenue model.

Danikat · December 19

Mik195 wrote: »

They really need to share some details on the new revenue model.

I agree.

I understand they couldn't put all the details into the initial announcement, but how we'll be paying for the new releases is the big unanswered question right now and the source of a lot of the uncertanity and concern from players.

I think they need to let us know how it's going to work, for both subscribers and non-subscribers, as soon as they can, at least for the initial releases.

DaveMoeDee · December 19

Mik195 wrote: »

They aren't going to give up the revenue from chapters purchased by people with ESO Plus so either ESO+ needs to increase in price to get the seasons for free or ESO+ loses any future content so you pay more for less.

Or ESO+ purchasers who don't pony up tor the seasons and get them for free until much later get to see people enjoying content they can't play for months/years(?) Not a great user experience.

They really need to share some details on the new revenue model.

We have no idea what they are willing to give up. They will drastically reduce costs by not delivering chapters. They are making the game much cheaper to produce and are becoming more focused on players that are willing to spend time and money on cosmetics. They don't need all the extra capacity for chapter launches, simplifying their infrastructure management.

They are likely also hoping that the seasons will keep more people subbed for more months than chapter drops. This, of course, comes at the cost of lost hype for chapter drops.

StackonClown · December 20

I'd personally like to call this Maintenance Mode, though I'm really looking forward to it!! suits me fine

BlueRaven · December 20

dinokstrunz wrote: »

I disagree, people on the current model disappear mere weeks after a big chapter release with nothing in Q3 or Q4 for solid player retention. Hopefully seasons will attempt to rectify that issue with more broader content spread across the board. Lets just see what Zenimax have in store for us first.

Back when they had regular quarterly releases it seemed fine. They moved away from it, then sat around wondering what happened.

Now they are moving away from the big chapter, into bite sized content. Bite sized player engagement should be expected, but I am sure everyone will still be surprised by that when it happens.

Grizzbeorn · December 20

Danikat wrote: »

Mik195 wrote: »

They really need to share some details on the new revenue model.

I agree.

I understand they couldn't put all the details into the initial announcement, but how we'll be paying for the new releases is the big unanswered question right now and the source of a lot of the uncertanity and concern from players.

I think they need to let us know how it's going to work, for both subscribers and non-subscribers, as soon as they can, at least for the initial releases.

Apparently, they aren't too worried about uncertainty in their already-weary player-base, since they aren't going to tell us anything else until freaking APRIL.

MincMincMinc · December 20

Im surprised people arent happy about this. Zos finally broke away from the corporate overlords demanding quarterly numbers driven by pump and dump releases.

Maybe instead of rushing 1 day content and hours of daily reward farming the seasonal rewards can drive new unlocks to be based on actual gameplay and interaction.

Melivar · December 20

I am intrigued by the potential changes and will wait and see what's presented. The New Life event just started, enjoy it and take advantage of the benefits of the bonus XP and easy tickets to catch up on things. I know I have companions to level up.

I don't understand all the fear and demand for information coming from all over. If you're playing the game and enjoying yourself why let potential changes get you down and take away from that.

When the time comes, and the details are fleshed out then you can start making plans for the future

Cooperharley · December 20

The most negative part of seasons in my mind is the sunsetting of that material, and given that ZOS has clearly stated that the content will NOT be sunsetted, I don't mind at all and frankly I'm pretty excited.

We haven't even had the option to test this stuff and people are literally imploding. Kinda ridiculous. Let's wait until we get our hands on it and work on some feedback rather than blanket statements like this thread. OR, better yet, take a break if the game infuriates you to that level. I did that myself, and I'm back now and am enjoying it much more than before.

BloodWolfe · December 22

If this goes into season/battle pass model I'm done for good with this game. I'm holding off on buying Crowns on sale right now because I am afraid this is the route they're going with. I already never once paid for a Crown crate and refuse too, and I hate the absurd over-monitization and outrageous prices on most things, but if they go season/battle pass I'm done.

Wiseau · December 22

Yep. I called it when they first announced Golden Pursuits that this is just the beginning of them pushing a battle/season pass. And now I've been proven right. Cutting content in favor of pushing a FOMO infested season pass will be the last straw for me at least. The moment they drop any sort of paid pass, or raise the price of ESO+, I. Am. GONE.

I've tried my best to stick around because this game was the most fun I had in an MMO, and to look passed all the glaring issues and flat out refusal to listen to the players. But, this is the one thing I will not stand for.

Zos, if you do decide to go with seasons, it will be the death of ESO.

Tyralbin · December 22

Treeshka wrote: »

I am expecting to see a premium Golden Pursuit as well for each season so they can generate some income instead of selling chapters. I mean yearly chapter sales must be bringing considerable amount of income so they can not abandon it entirely.

It may be possible that Gold Road will remain a chapter forever.

Danikat · December 22

Tyralbin wrote: »

Treeshka wrote: »

I am expecting to see a premium Golden Pursuit as well for each season so they can generate some income instead of selling chapters. I mean yearly chapter sales must be bringing considerable amount of income so they can not abandon it entirely.

It may be possible that Gold Road will remain a chapter forever.

I think that's unlikely, because everyone only needs to buy it once (or once per account anyway) so it wouldn't be profitable for ZOS to just keep it as the "current" chapter.

We know we're going to have to pay for new releases, because that's how it's always worked, either you buy it directly or get it with ESO+ but new content for this game has never been free.

I'm not sure what payment model they could use that won't have people crying that it's a season pass, unless they drop the word season and call it something else.

But whatever terminology they go with they'll likely promote the new releases in place of Gold Road, and add that in to DLC.

XSTRONG · December 22

Tyralbin wrote: »

Treeshka wrote: »

I am expecting to see a premium Golden Pursuit as well for each season so they can generate some income instead of selling chapters. I mean yearly chapter sales must be bringing considerable amount of income so they can not abandon it entirely.

It may be possible that Gold Road will remain a chapter forever.

Zos can still announce Expansions even tho they going away from the predictable Expansion in June every year.

Diablo 4 released an Expansion just a couple of months ago even tho they have seasonal gameplay but in that game you dont have to pay for a new season, the Battlepass is optional and are 95% cosmetic the other 5 % are increased XP etc that you will get for free even if you didnt purchase Battlepass.

If Zos decides to have a seasonal pass that you have to buy to play the season they will shoot themself in the foot for any future Expansions but an optional Battlepass like sub is probably what will happen.

If Zos manage to stop the droping in player population and actually gain more active players I will not be suprised If they announce an new Expansion but most likley not in 2025.

zaria · December 22

Ilsabet wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Can someone explain what "seasonal model" means? Does it mean that there will be certain content that's only available for 3 months and after that it disappears forever? This would be sad for people who enjoy new stories and lore but can't play for a while due to personal reasons like health, family or job issues.

That is indeed what a seasonal model means, but fortunately Jessica clarified in the main thread that they won't be removing any content:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Thank you for all the great questions so far, everyone. We are keeping a list to help inform what we need to answer and explain more later. And we will. One thing we do want to clarify today are the questions about seasonal content. Our plans are not to remove content such as quests, stories, and new areas like some other games do when a season is over.

With seasonal content I think of stuff like the midwinter event we are inn now. Its content who is up for some weeks and often have one time rewards.

It was not that I thought off with this, but more like the existing release structure but we get less. Also adding to existing zones is cheaper I think

TaSheen · December 22

Ilsabet wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Can someone explain what "seasonal model" means? Does it mean that there will be certain content that's only available for 3 months and after that it disappears forever? This would be sad for people who enjoy new stories and lore but can't play for a while due to personal reasons like health, family or job issues.

That is indeed what a seasonal model means, but fortunately Jessica clarified in the main thread that they won't be removing any content:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Thank you for all the great questions so far, everyone. We are keeping a list to help inform what we need to answer and explain more later. And we will. One thing we do want to clarify today are the questions about seasonal content. Our plans are not to remove content such as quests, stories, and new areas like some other games do when a season is over.

What Jess did NOT address was the "rewards" for doing seasonal content, after the season was over.