Seasons are what push me away.

alternatelder

I stopped playing every game (very seldomly) that pushed their content to a seasonal model. Please reconsider and do not stop the chapter release schedule. You push fomo hard as it is, and seaonal models will only burn people out even faster. Such a terrible idea for ESO, although I saw this coming a while ago.

Treeshka

I am expecting to see a premium Golden Pursuit as well for each season so they can generate some income instead of selling chapters. I mean yearly chapter sales must be bringing considerable amount of income so they can not abandon it entirely.

PeacefulAnarchy

can you let those of us not in the know what you interpret from seasonal model? I interpret it as releasing content in size similar to the old q4 dlcs, though what that content could be appears to be more varied, at various points throughout the year. I assume they will be crown purchases, or a yearly purchase for that year's seasons, so not monetarily different from what's currently happening. I don't see why that would have to mean FOMO. But I'm not familiar with what other games do so could be missing something.

alternatelder

Treeshka wrote: »

I am expecting to see a premium Golden Pursuit as well for each season so they can generate some income instead of selling chapters. I mean yearly chapter sales must be bringing considerable amount of income so they can not abandon it entirely.

But they are abandoning it. No chapter for 2025...Losing money on that, then losing money on yearly subs, since there's no reason to sub for that much anymore. If seasonal content is included in eso+, people will just buy a month, or wait for free trial and rush play any content and then be done for months.

TwiceBornStar

I always want to experience something before I judge it, or condemn it. More variety sounds good. Change sounds good. Adressing performance issues sounds good. Updating visuals sounds good. Bringing a brand-new skillset to PvP sounds good. Increasing overland difficulty? Sound supergood! (less boredom!)

Also, discovering new content in existing zones sounds good. I still have zones I absolutely love spending my time in, eventhough there's not much else to do there anymore because I've completed everything. Anything that gives me a reason to explore existing zones for something new sounds good!

So. Don't lament the past too much when there's a lot to look forward to!

dinokstrunz

I disagree, people on the current model disappear mere weeks after a big chapter release with nothing in Q3 or Q4 for solid player retention. Hopefully seasons will attempt to rectify that issue with more broader content spread across the board. Lets just see what Zenimax have in store for us first.

alternatelder

TwiceBornStar wrote: »

I always want to experience something before I judge it, or condemn it. More variety sounds good. Change sounds good. Adressing performance issues sounds good. Updating visuals sounds good. Bringing a brand-new skillset to PvP sounds good. Increasing overland difficulty? Sound supergood! (less boredom!)

Also, discovering new content in existing zones sounds good. I still have zones I absolutely love spending my time in, eventhough there's not much else to do there anymore because I've completed everything. Anything that gives me a reason to explore existing zones for something new sounds good!

So. Don't lament the past too much when there's a lot to look forward to!

The overland difficulty thread was created in 2021 and people were asking years before that. They've had years to bring something, and are only now talking about doing it. Performance improvement year was 2022 with the new servers, it made things worse. This is just more talk about improving it, giving people more false hope.

We've had reasons to go visit them, that includes ToT, and mythic digging. You also have new characters to create to do the stories over again if that's what you want. People want new zones, we already lost two years worth of q4 new dlc zone. Going back to old zones isn't as exciting, especially if it's making us play at their pace through a seasonal model instead of our own in a new big zone. I wouldn't even be surprised if the story content is actually locked behind the season, not to mention if the seasonal model is more expensive than buying a chapter.

Syldras

Can someone explain what "seasonal model" means? Does it mean that there will be certain content that's only available for 3 months and after that it disappears forever? This would be sad for people who enjoy new stories and lore but can't play for a while due to personal reasons like health, family or job issues.

colossalvoids

Current model clearly doesn't do it, especially quality wise. Any attempts of changing it are welcomed, it's all better than cling for the same old.

You'll still get to take part in deciding if it better or for worse.

UnseenCat

I'm nervous about this, for a number of reasons.

"Event Fatigue" is real. The "Gotta get 'X' now!" and "Gotta experience 'Y' before it's gone/over" push is tiresome if it becomes an endless treadmill. I get it, some members of the audience crave and need short-term goals and activities. But a significant portion of long-term MMO players engage in long-term progression activities. They shouldn't feel alienated by tipping the focus too far over to short-term things.

There are benefits in software development to focusing on smaller, concentrated areas either one at a time or in organized groups. But development teams are also vulnerable to getting trapped in short-term thinking and project cycles, leading to shallow progression and losing sight of larger, long-term project goals and cohesiveness. It can be aggravated short-term profit gains, which please the sales/marketing group, which drives further focus on short-term projects and further drift from cohesive, long-term project milestones. I don't want to see ESO fall into that trap. Don't let the game become "flavor of the month" with diminishing coherency as a well-developed, complete and consistent world.

Yes, the game's UI has been messy from the start and hasn't really gotten any better over the years. BUT -- I feel that good UI design is largely dead in the world. At this point, I genuinely fear that any "improvements" will only be for the worse. Just unify the existing keyboard/mouse and gamepad interface -- basically by adding an invokeable "gamepad mouse cursor" to get to keyboard/mouse tooltips and menus, and call it a day. That will be messy enough, but it will make the existing system functional in a modern world. I've seen too many "professional" UI redesigns that do nothing but make an old, opaque UI even worse -- all in the name of "discoverability" and "modern refreshed looks". Just. Don't. Do. That.

Overworld difficulty, or lack thereof, gets flamed regularly -- but be careful with any re-works. Don't do things that will mess up advancement through the overworld quests for new players and newly-created characters. Not everyone wants the overworld to be an endless DPS-check. Some are here for the story. Don't spoil that.

Cyrodiil... Well, this is the closest to an admission I've ever seen that Cyrodiil is still broken even after repeated efforts to fix it. So burning down the fundamental PvP gameplay mechanics and rebuilding them with performance in mind is as good an idea as any. BUT -- there may be more to do than just that. The problem is that Cyrodiil also contains PvE elements -- NPC quests, skyshards, delves, fishing, etc. The PvE in a PvP area aspect has been an issue not just among player's opinions about playstyle, but likely also has an effect on performance too. This may turn into a source of headaches and probably needs to be picked apart and resolved once and for all. Cyrodiil is just going to keep on being a can of worms to deal with.

Last, the announcement was that the focus was to be on quality of life, tending to things that needed fixing, and getting off the restrictive dev-cycle treadmill, plus a lot of small events to spice things up, driven by the game's anniversary. This announcement sounds like not much of that happened, but this time it's what's going to be done. What? So what did happen in 2024? Or is 2025 supposed to be "everything we wanted to do in 2024 but never got off the ground?"

Personally, this latest announcement doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence; rather, I'm foreseeing a lot of chaos in the year ahead. Sometimes a little chaos is good for shaking things up and re-focusing. Sometimes it's just... chaos alone. I really hope we do get some substantive fixes and improvements though.

Ilsabet

Syldras wrote: »

Can someone explain what "seasonal model" means? Does it mean that there will be certain content that's only available for 3 months and after that it disappears forever? This would be sad for people who enjoy new stories and lore but can't play for a while due to personal reasons like health, family or job issues.

That is indeed what a seasonal model means, but fortunately Jessica clarified in the main thread that they won't be removing any content:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Thank you for all the great questions so far, everyone. We are keeping a list to help inform what we need to answer and explain more later. And we will. One thing we do want to clarify today are the questions about seasonal content. Our plans are not to remove content such as quests, stories, and new areas like some other games do when a season is over.

DenverRalphy

By seasonaly, it just means release cycles. Not like the battle pass model like some of the shooters out there.

I think the 2 most recent companions are an example of "Bite sized content", and much of it will likely appear in the Crown Store when it releases. As to how much of it is monetized, I wouldn't even begin to guess.

francesinhalover

Treeshka wrote: »

I am expecting to see a premium Golden Pursuit as well for each season so they can generate some income instead of selling chapters. I mean yearly chapter sales must be bringing considerable amount of income so they can not abandon it entirely.

wouldnt mind a pass system if done right that lasted a whole year.

OtarTheMad

Ilsabet wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Can someone explain what "seasonal model" means? Does it mean that there will be certain content that's only available for 3 months and after that it disappears forever? This would be sad for people who enjoy new stories and lore but can't play for a while due to personal reasons like health, family or job issues.

That is indeed what a seasonal model means, but fortunately Jessica clarified in the main thread that they won't be removing any content:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Thank you for all the great questions so far, everyone. We are keeping a list to help inform what we need to answer and explain more later. And we will. One thing we do want to clarify today are the questions about seasonal content. Our plans are not to remove content such as quests, stories, and new areas like some other games do when a season is over.

Thanks for clarifying that.I was worried and I saw this reply to someone else. I wonder if that means that while the season is active we will get certain rewards but while it's inactive just the area regular season content. Hmm...

Wuduwasa13

The moment I spy a seasonal pass for purchase is the moment I’m out.

Syldras

Ilsabet wrote: »

That is indeed what a seasonal model means, but fortunately Jessica clarified in the main thread that they won't be removing any content:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Thank you for all the great questions so far, everyone. We are keeping a list to help inform what we need to answer and explain more later. And we will. One thing we do want to clarify today are the questions about seasonal content. Our plans are not to remove content such as quests, stories, and new areas like some other games do when a season is over.

Thanks for the info. So it's basically like the old Q1-4 releases, but without a specific type of content linked to each quarter, but more like a few quests here, a new dungeon there, sometimes a new landmass or a new trial, or maybe even a new system, when ever a new quarter starts?

Desiato

I was never a fan of chapters to begin with. IMO. they existed to fill the gap between TES 5 and 6 for single player TES fans.

I don't really care how they release content, but I hope they improve the value. Frankly, I don't think ESO is worth $250ish per year [for sub+chapter].

It's not a problem for me, but obviously revenue performance usually underpins business model changes, so I hope they've reached the correct conclusion and understand they need to make ESO more affordable because that's important to consumers right now.

Even wealthy players would benefit from better value because it would result in a larger community to engage with.

LadyGP

I'm of the complete opposite view point. I'm more excited for ESO now that they are having seasons instead of the Chapters.

I was always frustrated that we would only get, at most, 1qtr of "fixes". Yes, each quarter did minor bug fixes here and there but there are times when this game needs massive fixes due to its age.

Now that we are going to seasons it will allow devs to react to things quicker because they won't be stuck in this year long release schedule box. Plus, giving them the ability to experiment with stuff is kind of a rad idea. Yeah, some of the experiments might be terrible... but who knows.. they might come out with some awesome stuff.

Now, if they start to try to heavily monetize these seasons, come out with battle passes, then we have a problem.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Im wary...seasonal content often is of lowe quality or lead to lower amount of content.
At least they confirmed that quest and zone wont be deleated after a season like games often do. destiny 2 is a great exemple of this, last i checked, the base game, first 2 dlc and the first expention werent playable at the time.

tsaescishoeshiner

alternatelder wrote: »

I stopped playing every game (very seldomly) that pushed their content to a seasonal model. Please reconsider and do not stop the chapter release schedule. You push fomo hard as it is, and seaonal models will only burn people out even faster. Such a terrible idea for ESO, although I saw this coming a while ago.

What fomo-inducing features were in the announcement today? I think people are assuming the worst based on other games that use the word "season" to refer to more of a battlepass.

They just used the word "season" to announce a shift from yearly themes/chapters. We're going from "Year of the Legacy of the Bretons" to "Season of the Druids". For that part, I'm excited, because it sounds like we can get new content on a related theme without it being part of a whole year of content, or a bunch of unrelated new stuff.

Danikat

Since they confirmed the 'seasonal' content will continue to be available after the season is over it sounds like the only thing that's really changing is the release schedule.

I suspect it will be similar to what they were doing back in 2015 and 2016 where we got various types of DLC on an irregular schedule with free QoL updates in between. Probably nothing on the same scale as Wrothgar, but maybe more like the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood DLCs, and the dungeon DLCs but not necessarily dungeons.

jaws343

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

I stopped playing every game (very seldomly) that pushed their content to a seasonal model. Please reconsider and do not stop the chapter release schedule. You push fomo hard as it is, and seaonal models will only burn people out even faster. Such a terrible idea for ESO, although I saw this coming a while ago.

What fomo-inducing features were in the announcement today? I think people are assuming the worst based on other games that use the word "season" to refer to more of a battlepass.

They just used the word "season" to announce a shift from yearly themes/chapters. We're going from "Year of the Legacy of the Bretons" to "Season of the Druids". For that part, I'm excited, because it sounds like we can get new content on a related theme without it being part of a whole year of content, or a bunch of unrelated new stuff.

I think F76 is probably a good example to point at. They have irregular releases, that aren't tied to a specific cadence for new content. And throughout the year, they open up testing on things they are trying to introduce to the game, and depending on the feedback or the potential issues with the testing, they aren't tying those specific things into a set launch date.

Gives them a lot more flexibility, because they can completely nix specific pieces of content if they aren't ready or won't work. And with a more relaxed, and flexible release schedule, they aren't putting the playerbase into a position of having 3+ month content droughts when they release something that doesn't resonate with the community.

joergino

I'm wary, too. Especially if it all only means even more monetization and even more, heavier and more frequent nerfs to everything even remotely enjoyable. Quality of life improvements have not really appeared in a significant quality and quantity although they (supposedly) had an entire quarter dedicated to them in the current release schedule.
It's going to be interesting if this will improve with smaller updates, but it doesn't happen really soon, it may be too late already.

Integral1900

I do not like the sound of seasons at all

Why would I want to do content which only disappears a short time later?

This is the very reason I walked away from Diablo four

jaws343

Integral1900 wrote: »

I do not like the sound of seasons at all

Why would I want to do content which only disappears a short time later?

This is the very reason I walked away from Diablo four

They've already said this is not what it will be.

It's just a new, flexible release schedule. Literally all it is.

Integral1900

Also, why would you use Craglorn as an example of what you had in mind? That zone was such a mess you had to rebuild it! It still is a mess years later! The main quest was chopped to pieces, some of the content is laughably easy while stuff like Shadas tears will casually kick your head in if you are not expecting thedifficulty spike. It has some of the best lore and world building in the game, some of the most beautiful locations, those exquisite underground cities, the approachable and user-friendly trials, but in every other sense it was an absolute train wreck

Pepegrillos

I think we are going to end up with less content per year and more avenues to monetize existing players.

I_killed_Vivec

Ilsabet wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Can someone explain what "seasonal model" means? Does it mean that there will be certain content that's only available for 3 months and after that it disappears forever? This would be sad for people who enjoy new stories and lore but can't play for a while due to personal reasons like health, family or job issues.

That is indeed what a seasonal model means, but fortunately Jessica clarified in the main thread that they won't be removing any content:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Thank you for all the great questions so far, everyone. We are keeping a list to help inform what we need to answer and explain more later. And we will. One thing we do want to clarify today are the questions about seasonal content. Our plans are not to remove content such as quests, stories, and new areas like some other games do when a season is over.

Maybe I'm just wary from an overdose of politics recently (UK and US), but that response does not give me a good feeling...

Ignoring the "plans" bit (I can' t blame her, things will change, plans will be ripped up no matter how good the intentions might be), she doesn't say that they won't remove ANY of the seasonal content, just content "such as quests, stories, and new areas".

I suspect it will be a while before we see new areas - they've already said they want to renovate the base game zones and to introduce quest lines based around the Thieves, Dark Brotherhood, Mages, and Fighters guilds, which can be overlaid onto any zone. The quests, stories, and indeed NPCs might be new and should persist, but what about items that make seasons seasonal? Time limited drops? Antiquities that exist only for the season? Achievements? Are "Seasons" even meant to be replayable, either with the same character or with alts?

Because if they are as permanent as we might hope, then how are they different from DLC?

Taril

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Because if they are as permanent as we might hope, then how are they different from DLC?

The scope.

Like, the way chapters work, is they spend all year making all the content (Where the entire year's content is themed around a specific chapter) and then drop it all on a fixed schedule (I.e. Middle of the year).

The way the "Seasons" are supposed to work is... They just release content when it's finished. They don't have a fixed deadline to rush anything out for, they don't have to wait to bundle it together with a bunch of other stuff. They just work on things and when something is done it gets added to the game.

I'd imagine that monetization remains the same too. Whereby instead of buying the year's content with a DLC, you instead buy a Season Pass and get all the season content for that year (Of course, the lack of set in stone content releases can mean that such a thing is not guaranteed to be as valuable as a DLC, depending on the overall cadence of releases).

Meaning that the overall change should be mostly that new content will be added more frequently, in smaller chunks, rather than annually in a single large drop.

At least, theoretically. Time will tell how things actually play out.

LittlePinkDot

UnseenCat wrote: »

I'm nervous about this, for a number of reasons.

"Event Fatigue" is real. The "Gotta get 'X' now!" and "Gotta experience 'Y' before it's gone/over" push is tiresome if it becomes an endless treadmill. I get it, some members of the audience crave and need short-term goals and activities. But a significant portion of long-term MMO players engage in long-term progression activities. They shouldn't feel alienated by tipping the focus too far over to short-term things.

There are benefits in software development to focusing on smaller, concentrated areas either one at a time or in organized groups. But development teams are also vulnerable to getting trapped in short-term thinking and project cycles, leading to shallow progression and losing sight of larger, long-term project goals and cohesiveness. It can be aggravated short-term profit gains, which please the sales/marketing group, which drives further focus on short-term projects and further drift from cohesive, long-term project milestones. I don't want to see ESO fall into that trap. Don't let the game become "flavor of the month" with diminishing coherency as a well-developed, complete and consistent world.

Yes, the game's UI has been messy from the start and hasn't really gotten any better over the years. BUT -- I feel that good UI design is largely dead in the world. At this point, I genuinely fear that any "improvements" will only be for the worse. Just unify the existing keyboard/mouse and gamepad interface -- basically by adding an invokeable "gamepad mouse cursor" to get to keyboard/mouse tooltips and menus, and call it a day. That will be messy enough, but it will make the existing system functional in a modern world. I've seen too many "professional" UI redesigns that do nothing but make an old, opaque UI even worse -- all in the name of "discoverability" and "modern refreshed looks". Just. Don't. Do. That.

Overworld difficulty, or lack thereof, gets flamed regularly -- but be careful with any re-works. Don't do things that will mess up advancement through the overworld quests for new players and newly-created characters. Not everyone wants the overworld to be an endless DPS-check. Some are here for the story. Don't spoil that.

Cyrodiil... Well, this is the closest to an admission I've ever seen that Cyrodiil is still broken even after repeated efforts to fix it. So burning down the fundamental PvP gameplay mechanics and rebuilding them with performance in mind is as good an idea as any. BUT -- there may be more to do than just that. The problem is that Cyrodiil also contains PvE elements -- NPC quests, skyshards, delves, fishing, etc. The PvE in a PvP area aspect has been an issue not just among player's opinions about playstyle, but likely also has an effect on performance too. This may turn into a source of headaches and probably needs to be picked apart and resolved once and for all. Cyrodiil is just going to keep on being a can of worms to deal with.

Last, the announcement was that the focus was to be on quality of life, tending to things that needed fixing, and getting off the restrictive dev-cycle treadmill, plus a lot of small events to spice things up, driven by the game's anniversary. This announcement sounds like not much of that happened, but this time it's what's going to be done. What? So what did happen in 2024? Or is 2025 supposed to be "everything we wanted to do in 2024 but never got off the ground?"

Personally, this latest announcement doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence; rather, I'm foreseeing a lot of chaos in the year ahead. Sometimes a little chaos is good for shaking things up and re-focusing. Sometimes it's just... chaos alone. I really hope we do get some substantive fixes and improvements though.

Where is this announcement?

Thysbe

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/67321